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2:06 AM
I don't ask anything from people, I would appreciate the same from them.
 
@DomagojPandža Absolutely.
 
Alright, I gotta say it: fuck libertarianism.
 
Especially the "authorization" of my peers to study what I want. I'm obsessed with computer science, all conceivable fields of mathematics and physics, software engineering - science in general.
 
@ScottW People give you what you ask for. As long as you give them what they ask for. Fair trade.
 
But if they ask for something that contradicts with my request?
 
2:09 AM
@EtiennedeMartel In my experience, if you ask for nothing, you get a giant pile of endless bullshit.
 
In my experience, life is awesome.
 
people cannot accept that sometimes, you simply do not want to be with them.
 
Everything is gonna be alright
You know what? Maybe you should try being with them.
 
uh, no
 
Or, at least, finding cool people to hang out with.
 
2:10 AM
I am with who I choose to be with, and if I choose to not be with someone, then that is the end of it.
or at least, it is if "someone" is not a pathetic loser who's only enjoyment of life derives from the misery of others
 
One the most despicable qualities I find in humans is that their hypocrisy. Especially when they start talking about "poor people in Africa" and whatever the crap they come up with these days. And yet, they're are the source of it all. Their need to stroke their egos, be better than others. It bootstraps a hiearchy.
And someone has to be on the bottom.
That's why I don't like other people.
 
Again, so much angst in here.
 
They talk shit and do nothing.
 
It's like I'm surrounded by angry teenagers.
 
@EtiennedeMartel It comes from having it inflicted on you.
 
2:12 AM
Teenagers? Hell, no. Angry? Hell, no.
I just prefer my peace.
 
Stop being a victim. Kick the assholes in the face and move on.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I wish I had kicked them in the face.
although I can't go and kick my Signal Processing or whatever lecturer in the face
even though he truly deserves it
 
Life is awesome, I agree with that. But I don't pretend other people are something they're not. There's a few people I like to interact with.
Usually, they're thousands of kilometers away.
People with which I can have a decent discussion.
 
My real friends can be counted with less than 10 fingers. But my life just wouldn't be fun without them.
 
I don't care about football. I don't care about this guy banging the other guy's girlfriend.
 
2:15 AM
eh, I don't care about having a multitude of friends
 
@DeadMG It's about quality, not quantity.
 
I get friendsed-out very quickly and can't really support more than two or three good friends at once
 
I had a small group. But it got disbanded a few years ago when they went off to college.
Everyone in a different city.
Across the damn country.
 
I had a group, but then my parents moved away, and I went to university
 
My group is called the "Conseil du Jambon". We hang out, drink beer and make bad decisions.
@ScottW This. Oh my god this.
 
2:19 AM
Currently, in my life - I have only my company/work and my girlfriend. Awkward bumping into my old friends is not a happy fun time.
I met one a few days ago after my meeting with a few colleagues. It was so damn awkward, couldn't find a decent topic to talk about.
Damn, everything changes.
Pity the fool. :Đ
 
@ScottW No problem. He can always switch languages.
 
And, oh, I forgot.
I have my cat to keep me company. :Đ
And DeadMG has a pup back home. We're gettin' by.
 
Time for you to have sex with him.
 
fuck real life, we have the Lounge<C++>
2
 
Real life has beer. The Lounge does not.
 
2:25 AM
@DomagojPandža Too far away. Life would be much better if I had a puppy here.
but it's ok- soon I'll be going home, permanently
 
@DeadMG But, seriously, you really need to get out more.
 
I'm actually outside right now.
A bit chilly, but refreshing.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Why? There is nothing I want or need.
 
@DeadMG You won't know if you want it or need it until you experience it.
If you keep being fed the same shit, it's quite normal that the only thing you want is shit.
 
I think that by definition, if I need it, I would know it, since I would be suffering from lack of it.
however, I sincerely doubt that any quantity of social contact would solve the fact that, for example, my lecturers are idiotic fucktards
 
2:27 AM
@ScottW Heroin is incredibly bad for your health. I still need proof that human interaction is bad for your health (I don' think it's the case since humans are social animals)
 
who set stupid exams which have as much relation to real knowledge as a ready meal does to fine cuisine
 
4:27, just a half hour more and I can go running in peace.
 
@ScottW Yeah, but it's a problem.
 
I'm somewhere in between. I can be entertaining to others or entertain myself by being not entertaining to others. :Đ
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, but it's not the defining problem which I face which has the power to ruin my career before it's even begun.
that's the problem I need to focus on
not some wishy-washy "True Scotsmen get wasted every week"
 
2:30 AM
Everything is gonna be just fine
 
@EtiennedeMartel prove it
 
Believe it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel why?
also harhar, 4millionth message
 
Why not?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Because in my experience it's not true?
 
2:32 AM
"Just fine" is not enough :Đ
 
@DeadMG You have to think positively.
 
People define just fine by being alive and well. Being alive and well sucks.
 
Honestly, I'm pretty sure it could have been worse.
 
There needs to be something more.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I prefer thinking accurately.
 
2:32 AM
Something that makes that alive and well part meaningful.
 
You have to make your own luck.
I'm an optimistic. Never had any problems in my entire life. When I crash, I immediately stand up and keep going. Because whining about how life sucks is for pussies.
 
considering that the majority of my currently known experiences were overwhelmingly negative, and that I have foreknowledge of an event which is sure to bring more to the future, I see no reason to believe that the future will not be more of the same- or, indeed, even worse
 
Trust me, everything is gonna be just fine, as long as you believe it.
 
I have a feeling I'd enjoy working with DeadMG.
Don't believe, do. :Đ
 
Damn it, I'm surrounded by pessimists.
 
2:35 AM
@EtiennedeMartel The placebo effect has only limited power and doesn't extend beyond my own cells.
 
It's like you're content with having your face in the mud.
@ScottW That's what a pessimist says when he's accused of being a pessimist.
 
@EtiennedeMartel No, I'm not content with it at all.
 
Then stand up. Stop whining.
 
I simply see no viable means of extraction, nor any reason to believe that any will come along
@EtiennedeMartel What if there's a 1ton truck on my back?
should I make up the necessary muscular structure
 
There isn't going to be a 1 ton truck on your back.
And if there is, ask for help.
 
2:37 AM
Say, DeadMG, if there were a job opportunity in a foreign country involving hardcore C++, mathematics, physics and game development, would you take it up?
 
really? Because I think that my CS professors are quite analagous to having a giant truck on myback
@DomagojPandža Is language barrier/legal issues going to be a problem?
 
Yeah, if you want to make games, move to Montreal. It's turning into the world's biggest place for that.
@DeadMG Oh, I'm pretty sure you're exaggerating.
 
The language barrier is potentially a personal issue and I'm currently actually exploring the legal issues to actually bring in talented people. I'm willing to pay proper for people who know what the fuck they're doing. But, as always, everything that has to do with my government is way too slow.
I'm tired of graduate chumps who only know how to wank and install Windows on new machines after a 4 year software engineering course.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, you could suggest means of removal, and if none are found, then that suggests an adequate analogy.
@DomagojPandža Which country?
no, wait
Slovakia, right?
 
Croatia, the little country by the Adriatic.
 
2:41 AM
aaaah, le close
 
I am irritated by all the government redtape.
Why can't this crap just be easy?
 
well, in theory, that's what being a member of the European Union is for
and your government is to join fully in twelve months
 
Yup, that's why I'm hoping 2013. is bringing it to the final stretch. I cannot work with people from Croatia.
They simply have no idea what they're doing.
There are people who I've met over the years who write pure C and call it C++.
And their knowledge of the standard library is so extensive they still use "using namespace std".
 
lol, owch
 
And they have degrees. University degrees.
 
2:45 AM
I've actually been considering flat out replacing the C++ Standard lib
I need a new one for Wide anyway
 
How's Wide coming along anyway, you've been working on it for quite a while, right?
 
yes
I actually have a specification which is significantly more complete than the current public version (although that's not saying too much)
however, it's come back somewhat to bite me in the arse that I opted for exclusively static web hosting, even though it was for free
growing hard to keep track of what I've written and what areas it covers
I need to get a real web host so I can re-use some e.g. navigation code, and then link everything up, stick it up, and make a list of what's missing
 
Well, sometimes for pet projects it is hard to determine the scope. It's nice it has outgrown initial expectations, but you need to switch soon. :D
 
bb Scott
 
Have fun, Scott
 
2:48 AM
@DomagojPandža Nah, I don't mind that. It's a compliment. I've grown more as a programmer than I expected.
ultimately, Wide serves one, and exactly one, purpose: for me to learn more about programming languages
should it ever come to more than that, then double win for me, but I'm not gonna cry that there's no implementation
 
Ah, it is indeed the best way to understand programming language design. Reading books doesn't really cut it. You have to get dirty.
 
for example
I have learned that LL parsers have crippling limitations, and LR parsers cannot cope with value types
and therefore pretty much the only realistic option is to use an LR parser generator to confirm the non-ambiguity of your grammar, and then write a custom parser
I have also learned that Visual Studio has some disappointing optimization characteristics with expression templates, not to mention the lambda bugs, so my expression template lexer, whilst theoretically sexy, wasn't worth it over just a simple for loop
 
It gives a totally different perspective, the stuff that doesn't even get mentioned in formal texts. There are a lot of quirks you really need to feel for yourself. And you'll be grateful to yourself in a few years that you attempted such a feat.
 
oh, I still intend to return to implementing it after I'm satisfied
I'm also appreciating the detail that goes into specifying right now
I mean, I still think the C++ Standard is way too dry and formal and would be better served in a less formal sense
but there's certainly scope for less ambiguity
the best way to avoid ambiguity is simply to reduce the complexity of the spec
I'm basically talking to myself now
 
It tries too hard. Accounting and formalizing everything you run into isn't always the best choice. It's nice there are people who actually contemplate such things. Too many just reap the benefits for free.
But being dry kind of comes with the turf. :Đ
 
2:57 AM
well there are some things which, IMO, if you are implementing a compiler, you should not need me to spell out for you
 
It's a human tendency, complacency introduces unnecessary burden on the writer of the specification. People don't like to think.
It brings responsibility. And people don't like responsibility.
 
very true
but there are some things which shouldn't really require thought- if you're at the level I'm targetting with a formal spec, anyway
in any case, I hope to write a spec which is not very ambiguous, but undoubtedly it requires additional work
been focusing on my SHA-2 solver quite a bit in recent days
irking, I think I'm close, but I need to fix the endianness issues first
 
Woah, a lot of text.
 
Hey, cat. Cat, hey.
 
Episode watched, I can resume sleeping.
 
3:05 AM
I need to go running, but I was reading* through some Crytek presentations on Spherical skinning and a mathematical problem caught my attention.
 
you know, I'm watching Casino Royale
and I'm like, "WTF old tech!". Bond has a non-smartphone.
 
Math beats moving.
 
I forgot to watch Casino Royale. I am a sucker for slick gadgets.
And their dramatic portrayal, of course.
 
lol
 
What was the techguy's "name", Q?
I'm so out of loop when movies are considered.
 
3:08 AM
not anymore, he died a few years back
 
it's R now, I think.
 
Well that's original.
 
I wouldn't know
 
I was just thinking about how much I actually want to get a team working on a game for the next few years. Before, when I was younger, I'd always thought money is the problem. And now... It sounds so retarded when I put it this way: There is nobody willing to put in the damn effort to take my damn money, work with powerful machines and create awesome games.
And then, there's my favorite government and a shitload of redtape if I want anyone else.
Can't wait for 2013.
But I have a feeling something is going to go wrong.
 
3:13 AM
lol
 
Always does.
 
what is the awesome game you have in mind?
 
I tend to look at games from a technical perspective, I am obsessed with rendering techniques and various approaches to simulating global illumination at runtime, animation, physics simulation, networking, toolset design in general. I can provide the tools to make awesome games. But I do not wish to dictate what an awesome game is. That's where everyone else comes in. I have a bunch of ideas, others have their ideas. There must be a middle ground.
 
ok
 
I couldn't impose a central idea everyone needs to conform to, that kills creativity in the start.
 
3:20 AM
how about this for a challenge
have I told you about my plans for an RTS game?
 
No, I am aware of the simulations you've been working on, Wide and sha2 cracking. Elaborate a bit more. :D
 
it takes place in open 3D space
most 3D games are, essentially, 2D environments and other things, just rendered in 3D, but this RTS takes place in full 3D world- similar to, say, Homeworld
but I came across the problem of depth
see, I implemented a relatively simple inverse-gravity simulation to prevent my units from colliding with each other
but I couldn't decipher whether or not it was working, because it was hard to see how far away the units were, relative to one another
so I implemented a shader which colours the units differently depending on height
HSV, where S and V are 1, and H is 0-1 depending on relative height in the simulation
which produces very nice results in terms of communicating relative depth to the player
the problem is that by colouring units this way, I have de facto eliminated any possibility of even simple rendering techniques like texturing
because every pixel on every unit already has a colour- the depth colour
and it also eliminates perception of the fine details- anything you have that's the same depth is the same colour
which is also going to present problems if I also wish to use colour to say, indicate what team a unit is on
so, how can I maintain this easy depth flow of information to the player, whilst improving the visual quality of the units?
 
It's a very nice idea to separate the hoarding little bastards, the problem can be resolved with little effort with deferred rendering which is really the way to go nowadays because lights are still our best GI realtime approximation out there. You have all the render targets filled in with data and retain the depth information. With all that, you combine your approach to an aesthetically pleasing middle ground with the already mashed out final color of any given pixel.
But, is it necessary to colorcode the actual unit?
 
I considered colorcoding bars or stripes or something
but it just introduced a severe visual clutter problem
 
Yup, visual clutter is the biggest problem. It needs to be subtle, yet informative. I am really tempted to actually force a simple RTS game into actual 3D space without being locked down to a terrain mesh
and see if I could do it in a few days.
 
3:30 AM
sure simplifies the map representation :P
 
I am glad you're actually thinking about an RTS.
 
write a quick script which spawns some planets/asteroids/what have you, and solved
 
I am so sick of FPS/TPS crap.
RPGs, I'd love to do them. MMOs - no fucking way. RTS - Also hell yeah.
 
man
FPS/RPG
the only half-decent FPS/RPG to come out in the last decade is Human Revolution
and it was fun, but no System Shock 2 or original Deus Ex
 
@DeadMG Ha, made in Montreal.
 
3:32 AM
@EtiennedeMartel I know. Props to those guys.
 
They're working on Thief 4 as well.
 
Thief?!
I loved the shit out of Thief 3.
 
I heard that the most recent Thief was questionable
although, DE:IW was also supposed to be of questionable quality
 
I like sneaking around, probably because of that.
 
Aanyway, I'm gonna get some shuteye. Good night everybody, and remember: the best games these days are almost all made in Montreal. Think about that for a second.
 
3:33 AM
One company that always sort of amazes me is Quantum Dream. Or something like that.
Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain and Project Kara.
Great animation on the last one.
 
Quantic Dream, I believe.
 
Almost weird.
 
Heavy Rain
 
yeah, Quantic Dream. That's the one.
 
would have been an interesting experience, but alas, I'm a PC gamer through and through
 
3:35 AM
Me too. I have had a chance to play it for a while, almost bought a PS3 just for it.
 
I'm a poor student, I'm lucky to have PC :P
 
And Little Big Planet, that thing is conceptually fun.
Everything involving a bit of physics is fun.
 
aaargh, also PS3 exclusive
devs y u no cross platform :(
 
A combination of piracy, fucked up Cell approach and Sony dishing out cash for exclusives. Still, I'm willing to push a PC-only title.
Don't care about piracy, I actually don't even attempt to stop it. It accounts for a good bit of publicity.
 
I agree
if you want to know how to deal with piracy, ask Neil Gaiman
he turned it from a leech into his own personal billboard across the whole damn Internets
 
3:39 AM
The more you try to fight them off with "clever tricks", the more they try. There was actually Assassin's Creed 2 which communicated with the server to receive authentification keys in order to progress the story further.
 
and my money is on, the pirate players did not have to suffer said inconvenience
 
People localized the server, reverse engineered a bit of it and accumulated the keys.
One day later, pirates are enjoying it.
And legal players have to suffer downtime.
For a single player game.
It was entertaining.
 
in an "Oh, I can't believe that this is really happening" kind of way
it's like Diablo 3
I bought it but now regret it
 
It surprises me that Blizzard would do such a thing.
If I had that much money, I'd work on games for fucking free.
 
agree
but IMO, the problem is a lot more than the always-on DRM
did you know that they nerfed, significantly, the chances of players receiving good loot to make the auction house more relevant?
 
3:43 AM
Ah, yes... The real money exchange initiative? Jesus, that's so fucking greedy.
 
well, IDK about you, but I would rather simply earn my own drops from killing bosses and shit
I mean, WTF is the point of playing the game if I'm just going to have to buy the items from someone else anyway?
it's one thing to exchange one item I don't need for another I could use, but another thing to just drop crap so I have to farm and then purchase a drop another player earned
and they removed the best item source, Runewords
 
Exactly. Monetizing games in such a way is a retarded exercise and an insult to the very concept of games/entertaining software.
 
I miss them a lot
 
It's about effort and reward.
 
@DomagojPandža Eh. It's not so much that I object to the RMAH. In fact, I welcome it.
Blizzard have never, and can never, succeed in preventing real-money transactions from being part of the game- just like they failed with WoW and D2
so they may as well accept it and try to make a profit on it
where I object is, effectively, being shoehorned into it myself
 
3:45 AM
True, but if you're doing it, do it right.
 
let the rich players who don't mind dropping some cash pay on the RMAH, and let me play as I like to play- on my own, or with a couple friends
not always buying items from randoms
 
Don't force it onto people who are not interested into it by nerfing the shit out of the game.
 
exactly
 
Still, my problem is that I have the "old Blizzard" in my head. That bunch of guys which used to work on games and barely made a living.
 
yeah
new Blizzard is more like the old EA
 
3:47 AM
I really don't want a big company, ever. I want 20-50 awesome people who love what they do and enjoy working together.
 
eh
IMO, it's got not much to do with size, per se
it's about being private
it's about not having shareholders to report to who want to grub every cent out of everything that you do
 
Also true, they mixed with the wrong bunch.
 
it's about being able to say "It's done when it's done."
 
It's Blizzard/Activision if I'm not mistaken.
 
ActivisionBlizzard, but same principle
World of Warcraft brings in half, or just over half, of all their annual profits
even with an annual CoD release
 
3:49 AM
Call of Duty, fuck, I despise that franchise.
It's a glorified 1999 Q3 engine used in 2012.
 
agree
 
Every year, just a bit more of the same.
 
they just pump out a new iteration every year
it's not even good gameplay
I play, and enjoy, Battlefield 3
and I've seen a lot of outsiders claim they're the same, but they're not
in BF3 I ran someone over with a jet
 
I love Battlefield 3, especially 64 conquest maps with jets.
 
yeaaaah
Operation Firestorm is the best map
 
3:51 AM
helloo experts.... is C++ a pain language to code?
 
I also like Metro Rush
 
Ahahah, Operation Firestorm is awesome.
 
@lakshmikant Not particularly. It can be ... fun ... to learn, though
really quite pumped for the upcoming Close Quarters DLC
 
C++ is a pain-oriented language, best used with painkillers.
 
the existing map pool is pretty much all "Very large" to "Medium" maps, but I've got a soft spot for automatic shotgunning people in the face
and in BFBC2, the Cold War map was easily one of the best on offer
 
3:52 AM
I am struggling with c++ GUI
thought of going to easy C#...
 
Some people might hate me for this, but I really like the in-browser server/stat tracking.
Some WebSockets love is nice.
 
mm
I like the in-browser server
makes it easy to look for a game
 
@lakshmikant C++ GUI?
 
yeah..I mean MFC
 
MFC is not really C++
 
3:54 AM
Microsoft Foundation Classes in the C++ lounge.
 
it's C-with-Classes from 1990 or earlier
 
End times are coming.
 
and has little resemblance to actual C++
 
Evade MFC, mate.
Do native C++ and link into the WinAPI.
Or turn to C#
But don't MFC.
 
yea..it is a huge task to design the GUI for a beginner.
 
3:55 AM
How much of a beginner are you, actually?
 
MFC is a pretty suck library
 
If you're a beginner, try the console first.
 
and designing a GUI is a non-trivial task even with the best of libraries
 
there is nothing wrong with MFC.
 
@Abyx MFC is practically the definition of wrong.
you could look into something like Qt, or WxWidgets
 
3:56 AM
This. ^
 
I don't like Qt.
 
Write your own then. MFC is only good... I can't give a good example. xD
 
also it requires 5Mb of strange dlls
 
only good if you want to see how far we've come in the last 20 years
 
I have done some programming in JAVA,SAP-ABAP
 
3:59 AM
they are quite unlike C++
 
c++..i started 3 months back..though i know the concepts
 
I'm not even sure if SAP is a real language
 

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