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sbi
2:00 PM
MENU WITH ALL CAPS — Why did they do it? Basically, "just because". At least, I'm at a loss how else to interpret "to keep Visual Studio consistent with the direction of other Microsoft user experiences" and "to provide added structure to the top menu bar area".
 
weirdly enough, it works for Apple Mail’s SMTP account, but not the IMAP account
 
> This is a post attempting to justify an all caps menu bar on a site which has a non-all caps menu bar.
 
IMO, the worst thing is that ALL CAPS MENU is longer than all caps menu
 
> That said, we will enable you to customize the casing, and we are exploring options for how to expose that choice.
So, it's going to be on the Ribbon, under seventeen different submenus.
 
@sbi Are all my desktop apps going to have CAPS MENUS from now on? I think Office is going to look ugly that way
 
2:05 PM
@Collin doesn't office look ugly already?
 
sbi
@Collin There's no menus in Office anymore.
 
@SamDeHaan Ugh. Visual studio team: Not everything needs to be customizable.. it just needs to be sensible
@sbi I was looking at the ribbon headings
 
sbi
@Collin Ugh. I forgot about those.
 
What I want to know is how the hell the Ribbon happened.
 
@sbi I have no words. I'm just gonna post some starbait. Fuck Microsoft.
 
2:07 PM
@SamDeHaan I don't mind it that much really
 
sbi
@SamDeHaan The very same way, I suppose: "the use of blah is becoming a strong signature element of styling."
 
@sehe that came up when I searched "1 usd -> zd" looking for a conversion from us to zimbabwea dollars. I thought it was a very strange result, so I investigated further, and I downloaded some .zd file when I clicked the link.
 
Ribbon isn't so bad, as a concept it's better than old school text menus
 
@Abyx Let me keep my rebuttal to that simple: No.
 
especially it's better for touchscreens
 
2:08 PM
Morning, again.
 
@SamDeHaan im still doing all my coding in vim.
 
@CatPlusPlus evening.
 
sbi
@Abyx It's a software for typing, FFS! I want a menu with the hotkeys underlined, so I can navigate through it without having to grep for my mouse!
 
@Node You are kidding, right?
 
@Drise nope
I dont do any windows dev though
 
2:09 PM
@Node Nothing wrong with vim. But it's not great for documents.
 
@sbi FTR, the ribbon has hotkeys too (don't construe this as an attempt to justify the ribbon, it's just fact dropping)
 
LaTeX > any WYSIWYG ever.
7
 
sbi
@Node You are coding Word documents?
 
@sbi just remember hotkeys once, and use'em
 
And vim is perfect for LaTeX.
 
sbi
2:10 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, I know. I am slowly learning them.
 
@sbi Just hit alt, they all show up
 
@CatPlusPlus Depends on the document type ;) For text publications, yes
For presentations, noooooo
 
@sbi Ah, i thought the ribbon had made its way into all MS stuff :)
 
Beamer is wonderful for presentations.
 
@Node Enough of it to hurt. But not VS.
 
2:11 PM
Powerpoint is crap.
 
sbi
@Collin That leaves the fucking problem of "well, if I haven't found the damn button where it belongs, maybe it's on the General tab?" I so hate that.
 
@Cat Uh... Microsoft is crap?
 
@sbi Yeah, I had that problem with the menus too
 
Short and simple: The ribbon hides things. That makes it bad UI. Argument complete.
 
@SamDeHaan What exactly do menus do?
 
2:12 PM
Microsoft is Microsoft . but some of their products are crap
 
@SamDeHaan Are we discussing the "office" ribbon?
 
@Collin Menus organize things in an easily accessibly way.
@Drise Yesh.
 
@SamDeHaan Oh dear.
 
@SamDeHaan How are ribbon tabs different? They're just menus splayed horizontally across the screen
 
I hate unity... I don't know why Ubuntu decided it was a good idea.
@Collin They tend to hide things in non-obvious places
 
sbi
2:14 PM
@Collin I dunno. If it wasn't for work demanding I use a relatively recent Word version, I'd still be stuck in Word95 (the last one before the dancing paper clip). I could use that one my eyes closed, and features are grouped into menus more or less logically.
 
@SamDeHaan That's not really exclusive property of menus.
 
sbi
All this usability crap just makes it much harder for those of us who can think straight.
 
@Collin The options are unnecessarily separated, not well labeled, options are hidden in sub-tabs. There's lots of bad.
 
Ahahaha, don't tell me old Office menus are better than ribbon.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No, it's not. But it's definitely a property that can't be claimed by the ribbon.
 
2:14 PM
@Drise They watched too much chappelle show.
 
@sbi +1
 
@SamDeHaan Why?
 
Finding anything there is an hour of work.
 
@Drise I can understand arguing against the organization, but that's not a fault of the ribbon only how the buttons are laid out
 
If you're going to say "because they organized it wrong", that's not a flaw of the ribbon interface.
 
2:15 PM
AFAIR even File menu had like 40 items in Office 2000.
 
It was utterly ridiculous.
 
Well, they did organize it wrong, for one. They chose to not label things well, and not all of the icons used are immediately recognizable. Some tabs are hidden as sub-tabs of other tabs until discovered (IIRC).
 
Yep, totally not something inherent to that kind of interface.
Badly organized menus suck just as much.
 
They've organized it differently than it used to be, but I've at least seen some anecdotal evidence that the new organization is easier for newcomers to grasp, at the expense of the Word 95 power users needing to learn some new button placements
 
2:16 PM
And boy, were Office menus badly organised.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Maybe it's because I started to use Word when its version read "1.1"? Usually I quickly learned what they put into it. But the dancing paper clip made me uninstall Office 97 after a week, and when I had to start that ribbon crap it took me just as long until I started to regret I hadn't thrown a fit until they let me continue to work with Office95.
 
Okay, if we want to make the general case: Humans can parse lists of text much faster than horizontally organized icons/images [citation unavailable].
2
 
Not really, no.
 
Also, I don't remember them having actually changed any shortcuts I remembered from any Office application.
 
Word 97 has a sweet pinball game in it
 
2:18 PM
@SamDeHaan is that really true? humans can identify general shapes easier than text.
 
sbi
@Collin I can look down an open menu much faster than scanning one of those ribbons, scanning for entries. Oh, @Sam already made that point.
 
If you're not mousing all over the place, it doesn't really matter.
 
Walls of text are not easily parsable.
 
I bet there's a question on this on ux.stackexchange.com
 
reading is faster than guessing meaning of small images
 
2:18 PM
Especially tiny menu text cramped together in a list that takes 1/3 of the screen.
 
That's really not a wall of text. It's a list of separated entries.
 
@CatPlusPlus Don't forget the scrolling, because the menus are so long they don't fit on screen.
 
32
Q: Is Microsoft's Ribbon UI really that great, from a usability perspective?

Thomas OwensThe first time I ever used it was at my current job. Among my coworkers, the feelings toward it for usability are mixed. The other developer doesn't really care one way or the other, as long as Office does everything he needs it to do when writing reports. The top manager likes it because it feel...

 
It is a wall of text.
@Abyx Remembering image meanings and identifying them later is easier than finding the same line of text again.
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, that too. And hiding most of the items randomly.
Quantum menus, every time you look at them, they're different!
 
sbi
I don't think we need to discuss this. I admit that it might be much easier for the average secretary to deal with the overwhelming number of features in Office through a ribbon. Fine, give her that. Make it the default, even. But keep the damn undo feature in the Edit menu for those of us who are used to link logically!
 
2:20 PM
You use the menu for Undo?
 
Undo should never be put in a menu.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't think there's a GUI feature for "undo everything after insert table." And have you ever tried to find the buttons for that on the Ribbons?
 
MS is pretty good with researching UX stuff, and average secretary is pretty much the target for 90% of the Office suite.
 
@CatPlusPlus text is a line of images of characters
 
@Abyx And images are 2D pixel surfaces. So what?
 
sbi
2:22 PM
@CatPlusPlus Um. Do I get this right that the very same cat who just argued for using a fucking programming language to write letters now argues in favor of menus being less accessible than ribbons?
 
@sbi It's right there on top. Plus, how many times do you need to find those buttons? And what if the ribbon was organized just like the menus? Would you still complain?
 
@sbi What language?
 
@CatPlusPlus latex?
 
@Abyx give a person a picture of crowd of people, and ask them to spot their friend - it'll happen quickly. give them a grid of letters and ask them to find a word, it'll take much longer. text is harder to parse
 
Menus are less accessible than ribbons, that doesn't make ribbons better than LaTeX.
 
2:23 PM
@CatPlusPlus I mean that you could identify short words just like you identify images.
 
Relativity.
How does it work.
 
So this website is only a bit sketchy, but this is interesting: addintools.com/office2010/professionalplus/index.html
 
@Node This is probably a bad example. Picking a person out of a crowd is hard.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes For me it's not in a ribbon.
 
I think I use Dictionary more often than List in my code.
 
2:24 PM
I'm a programmer, so of course I prefer LaTeX to silly clicky WYSIWYG crap editors that try to think for you, and do it badly.
 
sbi
That took me the other day.
 
Will it take one day again?
 
@Abyx You have to read text, you don't have to read images.
 
You're just not used to it.
 
..having said all this, i havent really used the ribbon - my office use is limited to just reading emails and a little calendar usage in outlook
 
2:25 PM
@CatPlusPlus No, it’s horrible. It encourages text-friendly presentations even more than PowerPoint. Presentation slides should be developed strictly as a visual aid, using visual tools
 
@CatPlusPlus LaTeX is a pain to use. But anything you write with it will look so beautiful your eyes will burst.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes In fact, I used to have a 3rd-party ribbon that had the old menus. Unfortunately, it failed to be accessible by keyboard.
 
@SamDeHaan The fact that it's not organized as you expect it is not a characteristic of it being a ribbon.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes After three years?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes This argument got old a few years ago.
 
2:26 PM
@KonradRudolph Beamer doesn't encourage bad presentations any more than PP. In fact, I've seen more bad PP presentations than bad Beamer presentations.
 
PowerPoint would actually be a really good software if it got rid of the “bullets” slide layout
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus That's the reason I prefer non-thinking Office95.
 
@CatPlusPlus It absolutely does. It encourages a text-based format, which is fundamentally wrong for presentations
 
sbi
Oops. I should have been gone half an hour ago. Need to haste now..
 
I can accept "The Office ribbon is badly organized".
 
2:27 PM
@CatPlusPlus For two reasons: more people use PP, and more non-tech-savvy users use PP, consequently more people who are just clueless
 
I don't see how that translates to "Ribbons are bad", though.
 
but once you account for that, the picture wall of text gets different
 
It's just an illogic leap.
 
Why isn't there any hashing utilities in the BCL like there is in Boost?
I want to combine hash values without resorting to some shady code lifted from an SO question.
 
I’ve yet to see a Beamer presentation which didn’t use too much text
 
2:28 PM
Unless you can explain to me why a ribbon with the same organization of the menus you're used to would be bad, I can't understand that conclusion.
> Hardcore Users. These people are fine because any seriously hardcore Office user uses keyboard shortcuts for everything. None of the keyboard shortcuts changed, so these people are unaffected by the upgrade.
 
I've yet to see a presentation that wouldn't be boring, but hey.
 
Anyway, this is how I feel about it.
 
I don't see anything wrong with bullets, really.
As long as it's overview, and not something you read.
 
@CatPlusPlus That’s the problem then. Bullets are almost always the wrong tool
They detract from the oral presentation and add nothing
 
@RMartinhoFernandes My basic argument is vertical list of text > horizontal list of images.
 
2:29 PM
@SamDeHaan Yeah, that's totally subjective.
 
they are very rarely useful to structure an argument
 
As you can see from the variety of opinions in this room.
 
but almost always, a list of bullets must be replaced by individual slides for individual points
and those slides should contain an illustration, not words
 
Well, yeah. But their opinions are different from mine, so clearly, their opinions are wrong.
 
Also, Word has help builtin. You can press F1 and type the name of the features you're looking for. You don't need to spend the day randomly looking for it.
 
2:29 PM
You know what? We should all get drunk over this issue.
 
Surgeon’s law can easily be extended for presentation slides: 99.9% of everything is crap
 
Regardless, I can make presentations faster with Beamer. Faster it's over, the faster everyone can forget about it.
 
that counts especially for all those “presentation style guides” – they are full of shit
 
I don't like presentations.
 
“no more than 40 words per slide” – bullshit!
The real rule should be: no more than seven words per slide
that rule would give any manager or scientist an immediate cardiac arrest
 
2:31 PM
Why use words?
 
:words:
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Precisely. They have no business on slides
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually one of the technically best executed presentations I’ve ever seen
 
Words have a nice property: I can go through slides and not listen to the thing.
Very useful for lectures.
 
2:33 PM
Reading slides sucks.
It's just a bunch of disconnected points.
 
Listening to boring lectures sucks even more.
 
@CatPlusPlus I hope you are being ironic
 
Not really, no.
 
@CatPlusPlus So we can agree that the lectures suck
but engaging lectures don’t suck
 
Unless they made a point of making it read like an article instead. In that case, why don't they just publish an article?
 
2:34 PM
if the lecture sucks, the slides are irrelevant anyway
 
Als
Words in slides are for presenters who don't remember or exactly know what they want to say, so they just read through the slides
 
I haven't seen an engaging lecture in the two years of studying.
And I doubt I ever will.
 
but good lectures can be improved substantially by good slides – or conversely, and worse – can be utterly destroyed by bad slides
 
So I just skip them, and then read slides at the end when tests and exams come.
Profit!
 
@CatPlusPlus Create one, then. It’s fun and rewarding
 
2:35 PM
Talking to a room full of people? No fucking way.
 
@Als Just use... whatchamacallit... those cheat things. Pieces of paper you bring with you to work as memory aids.
 
R.I.P. Ray Bradbury, Author of Fahrenheit 451 and The Martian Chronicles http://on.io9.com/aM5r
3
 
Make the slides for the audience, not for you.
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes Fun funy little words with first letter of each point
 
@CatPlusPlus Why not?
 
2:37 PM
@KonradRudolph He can't bring himself to speak over the Internet.
 
Because a) I hate talking b) I hate when everyone is looking at me c) I hate rooms full of people.
 
@KonradRudolph Hmm, that's sad.
 
@CatPlusPlus All of those points can be quite effectively “cured” by giving kick-ass presentations ;)
it helped me :p
 
I shut down when more than 5 people are looking at me simultaneously.
 
@KonradRudolph Damn.
 
2:38 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes It is. But to be honest, I intensely disliked Farenheit 451
 
Empirically proven.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Cue cards?
7
A: How common is it to write out a script for a talk? What are the benefits?

Konrad RudolphScript only the introduction I can only echo what Artem said about the disadvantages of a script. That said, I often advise to write out the introduction of the talk beforehand in full detail. This way, you have a backup. So far, I have never ended up using the prepared introduction, I’ve alway...

 
@KonradRudolph I liked it quite a lot.
 
@KonradRudolph That. Thanks.
 
@EtiennedeMartel It wages a stupid ideological luddite war against TV. Rubs me the wrong way, just like people deploring the internet
 
2:39 PM
...
 
(and that’s coming from me, growing up without TV!)
 
TV is utterly stupid and should just be replaced by VoD completely.
 
@KonradRudolph I took it as a defence of culture and art in general, which seems to get cut a lot these days in favor of more "consumer-ready" stuff.
 
Conforming to a preset schedule to watch something? Stupid.
 
@CatPlusPlus Not the argument Bradbury had in mind ;)
@EtiennedeMartel That’s the same luddite argument
it’s wrong, it’s exactly the other way round
 
2:41 PM
VIDEO API Y U ACCEPT ONLY FILENAMES AS INPUT? TAKE STREAMS DAMMIT.
 
more than ever, people have access to culture and science, and they make use of it
 
I want to kill the bastard that designed this crap.
 
Some people haven't heard of in-memory buffers.
 
“consumer-ready” is just a derogatory term for compelling narrative
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, apparently, the contents of a file is best represented by a string with its path.
 
2:46 PM
@KonradRudolph Yeah, thanks to the Internet. I'm sure Bradbury didn't see that one coming.
 
No one did.
 
Whats the best method to convert a vector<char> buffer to floating point values ? [ i suppose bit wise operators ]
 
Doesn't make the large networks' lust for money and power and the expense of culture any more acceptable.
 
@EtiennedeMartel And before that, TV. Not to the same extent, but it surely reached a lot of people who’t otherwise never read a book
@EtiennedeMartel That’s economy for you. But “at the expense of culture” is an oxymoron. Culture is defined by what passes around, not the other way round.
 
something like

float f = (float)( buffer[0]<<24 | buffer[1]<<16 | buffer[2]<<8 | buffer[3] );

or am i wrong ?
 
2:48 PM
@KonradRudolph If we only focus on what's easily marketable, I feel like we're losing something.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Of course we do. But it’s by no means exclusive to that crap
 
What's in that vector?
 
mpg123's floating point output
broken into 8 bit unsigned chars
 
@EtiennedeMartel For every piece of crap that gets broadcast, another person watches Attenborough or discovers Beethoven.
 
Yuck.
 
2:49 PM
@CatPlusPlus agree :P but its the library i dont have much choices
 
Use a library that doesn't suck.
 
@KonradRudolph I don't think the trade is that fair.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I’m not saying it’s fair, I’m just saying that all things considered, it’s still beneficial, i.e. we’re still better of with television than without
 
I think most people are only exposed to crap because they don't know anything else, and they won't know about that unless we show it to them.
 
@CatPlusPlus its the fastest mpeg layer 3 decoder out there
 
2:51 PM
incidentally, the same argument was made when books first became widely available
 
Oh my, the fastest. Said who?
The author?
 
Hey, I'm not even sure Fahrenheit was against TV as a medium: IIRC, the only shows in there were soap operas.
 
something along the lines “the ladies only read this vacuous romantic crap”. How ridiculous that argument now sounds, yet it employs the same logic
 
@EtiennedeMartel Google already heavily filters search results according to what you've always searched for previously
 
Java's linked lists are slower than its vectors because of expensive memory allocations. What the fuuuu-
 
2:52 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I think it’s pretty explicitly part of his private war against the TV medium
 
If this keeps up, we're all going to have our own separate bubble of what we want to see
 
@Maxpm Java memory allocations aren't expensive.
 
If that doesn't include news broadcasts, we will see none.
 
@Maxpm Linked lists are usually slower in any language. Java memory allocations are actually cheap.
 
essentially, the message of Farenheit is reduced to “TV will drive civilisation into nuclear war”
 
2:52 PM
Also linked lists always involve more allocations than contiguous vector.
 
But even if it does, they will be tailored to what we click on.
 
That's so weird.
Concatenating two linked lists is really slow, too. THAT should at least be efficient. Nothing new has to be allocated.
 
@Maxpm Actually, there is. Doubly linked lists can't share nodes.
 
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa-
Oh, that makes sense.
 
2:55 PM
@Maxpm If doubly linked lists share nodes they're the same.
 
Well, yeah. I'm fine with that.
Perhaps I should have said "appending one list onto another" instead of "concatenating."
 
you could do some really crazy things where the links diverge between two lists, but that's more of a graph than a list
 
Nope the fastest as tested.
 
If you don't want to preserve the original lists, then it's O(1).
 
It should be.
 
2:57 PM
Oh, Java. Hahaha.
 
You know what pisses me off? That stupid API that only accepts filenames as input is from Google, not from some random jackass on the interwebz.
 
Hm.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes If it accepted just anything and tried to make do, it would be Microsoft, not Google.
 
@Neil It doesn't need to accept anything. It only needs to accept a fucking stream.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What API are you talking about?
 
3:03 PM
Fuck this. I need to get some sleep.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh yeah, that is gay, isn't it? Stream is the basic building block of input and output
 
you'd think that would be there before File
 
It's not a freaking Uri.
 
I don't always multiply by 0.5, that's just an example, the multiplication can be with any double value. It's stored in an int because that is the type of a member in a class in a third-party library I'm using. I appreciate that you're taking the time to post, undoubtedly with the intent to help, but it's rather tiring on Stackoverflow that I need to spell out every objection or workaround I already thought of myself but don't want to use (for whatever reason) in a question, and still people assume that I'm retarded and that I don't realize that * 0.5 == / 2. — Roel 4 mins ago
 
3:05 PM
I don't want to save the damn buffer to disk.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's not something silly like it needs to be seekable and the stream interface doesn't support seeking?
still a fail either way
 
@awoodland java.io.InputStream does support seeking.
Apparently people have been complaining about this since 2008.
@CatPlusPlus You'd think programmers are good at spelling out requirements.
 
Based on SO? No.
 
:-/
 
3:11 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Programmers tend to think you're looking over their shoulder and know what's actually going on or how the software is implemented. That's why we suck at writing user-guides.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's a good one.
 
Hey, maybe you suck at writing user guides.
I'm just too lazy to do it.
 
@Drise Ahahaha! It was kind of a hightech website considering the target audience :) Apparently they just need help authoring /robots.txt
 
С++ enum is a crap. Why there is no Low/High like in Delphi? =\
 
@Drise I don't think it's the same. Writing user-guides is like writing a tutorial. Correctly describing problems sounds like a fundamental skill to me.
@sehe You got it.
 
3:13 PM
@Drise Bad programmers assume you have your crystal ball ready when reading their questions. Good programmers don't assume anything.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Indeed
 
@Abyx I guess that gives you the minimum and maximum enumerator?
 
@Abyx what is low/high?
 
@Abyx I imagine its because the values in an enum aren't required to be sequential.
 
FTR, enum class foo {}; foo x = static_cast<foo>(10); is perfectly valid C++.
 
3:14 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes yep
also there is Pred and Succ, for non-sequential enums
 
Yeah, that'd be useful. Maybe some magic powered traits.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Good programmers keep their standard issue crystal ball ready, duh.
 
But I guess that wouldn't quite work with forward declared enums, which, strange as it seems, are complete types.
 
I saw enum { A, B, MAX }; T arr[MAX]; ... arr[MAX] = some; today =\
 
enum class foo : int; declares a complete type. It can have any number of enumerators, they're just not declared here. There's no way you can get something like those Low and High things working on the face of this.
C++ enums are really just glorified integrals.
 
3:17 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes you can get high/low from std::numeric_limits with the base integral type
 
@RMartinhoFernandes well, then this functions should generate compiler error, it actual values aren't known
 
@awoodland But I'm sure that's not what @Abyx wanted.
 
@awoodland but that wouldnt give you the min/max values of actual enum values.
 
enum class foo : int;
static_assert(std::low<foo>::value == static_cast<foo>(0), "");
enum class foo : int { bar, qux };
 
@awoodland I want to avoid dummy enum elements, like FOO_NUM
 
3:20 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I don't think that makes for good/bad programmers, just one's used to solving problems by themselves, and one's used to working in group environments or asking for help.
 
@Abyx I think I answered a question about something like this recently. Gimme a sec.
 
@Abyx can you write a bit of perl or something to generate the enums and some meta info about them at build time?
 
enum Days { Monday, ..., Sunday, DaysNum }; looks ugly and dangerous =\
 
I've done that in the past to make operator>> and operator<<
 
@Abyx why dangerous?
 
3:24 PM
Ah, nevermind, the author of the question I answered was already using First and Last special members to mark it. stackoverflow.com/questions/8606315/…
 
@bamboon because you can pass DaysNum to function which accepts Days
 
Traitify it.
Have a enum_traits template and specialize for each enum instead of adding special enumerators.
 
@Abyx oh ok, I should read the context first^^
 
Yes, lots of work. There's no way around that part.
But at least you don't pollute the enumerator list.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yep, probably it's the best idea
 
3:28 PM
I wonder how hard it'd be to write a clang extension that generates those traits automatically.
puts that on the "maybe someday I'll do it" pile
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you could do that quite neatly by having the extension generate a (portable) header so you can still take it to non clang compilers
 
ah... but then I should hardcode number of days
 
You don't really need an extension, if you're going to generate a header anyway.
Make up a simple data format for the enums and generate enum and traits from it.
No fugly C++ parsing needed.
 
@CatPlusPlus i came out finally with this
float * fl = (float *)buffer.data();
amazingly it gives me correct output :-|
 
`enum FOO { A, B, C, FOO_NUM };` - old code
`enum FOO { A, B, C }; ... enum_traits<FOO> : num_<3> {};` - new code (or, num_<C+1>)
then we add D -
`enum FOO { A, B, C, D, FOO_NUM };` - OK
`enum FOO { A, B, C, D }; ... enum_traits<FOO> : num_<3> {};` - new code (or, num_<C+1>)
='(
C++ Y U NO Delphi?!
 
3:33 PM
data Foo = A | B | C | D deriving (Enum)
Ho ho ho.
 
@CatPlusPlus Delphi is better.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik what's the book doing?
 
Not really, no.
 
Ell
does enum inheritence make sense?
 
Well, if one enum were really rich.
 
3:35 PM
I am wondering why it worked , would somebody like to explain me ?

i think float * fl = (float *)buffer.data(); where buffer is a vector<unsigned char> will just make fl refer to buffer.data(); pointer so when i read with the fl* array it read the output as floating point values , correct ?
 
@Abhishek yep.
 
It's fugly.
 
my god, the Skeptics layout is full of design bugs :(
 
Ell
don't they all use the same design?
 
They're skeptical towards design.
 
user784668
3:40 PM
Does anyone in here have ISO 14882:2011? Not a draft, but the actual standard?
 
@bamboon What book?
 
@awoodland Hmm, actually, that's probably better and easier. I can make it a separate tool.
@Fanael I don't think so. FTR N3337 is pretty much the standard modulo editorial issues like typos, the list of which is documented on N3338.
 
@Fanael yep
 
user784668
@Abyx Could you post 21.4.5/2?
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik the lounge book you guys wanted to write
 
3:43 PM
@bamboon What it's doing? Nothing; sitting there.
 
@KonradRudolph I'm skeptical
 
"Returns: *(begin() + pos) if pos < size(), otherwise a reference to an object of type T with value
charT(); the referenced value shall not be modified."
 
@Fanael Note when @RMartinhoFernandes says "modulo", he means that 3337 corrects the official standard. The Standard is identical to N3290 and 3337 is newer.
Also you can get the raw "latest" TeX source, it's on GitHub or some similar host.
 
user784668
@Potatoswatter I actually have N3376, which is even newer than N3337.
 
Ell
i thought you had to pay?
 
user784668
3:46 PM
@Ell Drafts are free.
 
Ah, good news!
 
0
Q: Is crashing in SDL common?

AkroyI'm new to SDL and I'm curious about its stability. To preface, I'm developing from Ubuntu virtualboxed in Windows 7, which may affect my perception of this. I've noticed that as I play with different resolutions and fullscreen settings, it's not uncommon for a resolution (even standard 16:9 ones...

lol at the title.
 
user784668
@Potatoswatter But it's a good news that the standard is identical to N3290. No need to pay or pirate.
 
I am a noob and even i find this ... insane question
wait i should ask Is Segmentation Fault in Google v8 common! lol
 
Ell
haha
 
3:49 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Why is there still so many people intent on using SDL?
SFML is not as bad, and at least it's in C++.
 
No idea. Never used either of them.
 
Ell
but sfml has no z-ordering :'(
gosu ftw! (search libgosu)
 
@Fanael Yeah, I think the editors were trying to hack the system as best they could. But they had to take down N3290, so technically it is piracy again.
 
user784668
@Potatoswatter Ex post facto law?
 
Wow, the Community bot can fix broken links. Neat: stackoverflow.com/revisions/7231859/3
 
3:51 PM
There must be some kind of Z order…
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, SDL is incredibly old. And barely maintained.
 
@Fanael Probably posting it was against the rules in the first place, and a few months after ratification they were caught by the regulators.
 
Yeah, that's what happened.
 
user784668
So they derped with string::operator[], but they fixed it later.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Because of 'tutorials'.
And silly people.
 
user784668
3:56 PM
And C.
 
Any Ubuntu / xorg savy people about? I could use some help askubuntu.com/questions/147308/nvidia-dual-monitor-set-up-11-04
 
@Drise what does grep -i nv /var/log/xorg.0.log say
 

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