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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

12:51 AM
congratz @Ell
 
Ell
thanks @Telkitty :D
 
Ell
haha
 
some fashion chains have been making bigger clothes for the same size
the sneaky marketing tactic
 
1:39 AM
So.. Shirt sizes do not have an RFC?
2
 
1:55 AM
Type HELP MEMORY for your options.
 
2:22 AM
FML, I got 80 GB free on Linux and it frequently throws bad allocs when I try to grab the remaining. Windows seems fine.
 
jesus christ
 
@SpongyFruitcake ça donne les bool
 
I could have gotten home faster if I drove from Chicago instead of flew
haha
their survey has the scale reversed in order--highest rating is on the left, where the lowest rating usually is
I bet angry people filling out the survey occasionally accidentally give tens instead of 0s
 
@LucDanton ça donne l'algèbre
 
3:55 AM
Guys I'm trying to write a node binding in C++ to adjust volume of an application by its application name, e.g. chrome.exe set volume to 50% or something, what would I need to google to accomplish this
Tried googling C++ set volume of application but just comes up with master volume mixer and other unrelated things
 
4:36 AM
 
Remember std::make_pair?
 
Also std::pair<int, float> ys = { 5, 7 };
 
 
3 hours later…
user1804599
8:10 AM
@Code-Apprentice No, but acquiring good knowledge is always good.
 
user1804599
You don't know when you'll need it.
 
8:29 AM
@LucDanton In which case would one want to write std::pair<auto, auto>?
 
I have 2 apps, one with more functionalities but is way slower than the other
some stuff, I have fixed twice already, I still can not remember what I did to fix the problem
 
@SpongyFruitcake it makes sense for partial spec purposes, so for a function template (and you like/are not opposed to concise templates)
 
So template<int, auto> void foo() { ... } would be a partial specialisation?
 
@SpongyFruitcake no, but I think you messed up the syntax
 
Possible.
 
8:41 AM
 
9:17 AM
Hellow
 
user1804599
 
Now that's an angry face.
 
user1804599
ANGERY
 
10:04 AM
@thecoshman No idea, I just liked the hilarious video title.
 
user1804599
TIL \x -> x == x == True parses as (\x -> x == x) == True in Haskell 98, but nobody implemented it that way.
 
@rightfold I like the presentation style.
 
user1804599
Yeah, it's really nice.
 
user1804599
He probably used mathematics or something to draw it.
 
user1804599
Probably linear algebra and calculus.
 
10:11 AM
His explanation of the derivative of x³ as 3 squares, hence 3x², is brilliant.
 
user1804599
You can generalize this to arbitrary hypercubes.
 
user1804599
But the guy is all about visualisation, so unfortunately hypercubes won't cut it.
 
He manages to display cubes in 2D just fine, so why not hypercubes as well? ;)
 
user1804599
You can project a 4D hypercube onto a cube, and then project the cube onto a plane.
 
user1804599
It's like foldr.
 
user1804599
10:14 AM
But it'll look like incomprehensible shit.
 
user1804599
So not very useful.
 
user1804599
Hypercubes, so general Odersky could have discovered them.
 
There you go: A hypercube, when projected into 2D space, looks like a human eye!
 
user1804599
This is my favourite visualisation of a 4D hypercube:
 
lol I like his office clippy PI thing's thinking expression.
 
user1804599
10:16 AM
 
user1804599
If you fold it like you would fold those paper cubes, you get a 4D hypercube.
 
@rightfold This looks similar to how flattening a 3D cube gives you 6 2D squares.
 
user1804599
Yeah, in a 3D cube, the faces are 2D planes.
 
user1804599
In a 4D hypercube, the faces are 3D cubes.
 
user1804599
I think there should be 6 though, not 8. I'm not 100% sure.
 
10:18 AM
A cube has 8 vertices. Maybe to do with that?
 
user1804599
> Just as the surface of the cube consists of six square faces, the hypersurface of the tesseract consists of eight cubical cells.
 
tesseract = hypercube?
 
user1804599
A square has four lines, a line segment has two points, a point has zero things.
 
user1804599
0 2 4 6 8
 
Pretty sure there's a metal band called Tesseract...
probably prog metal
 
user1804599
10:21 AM
@fredoverflow A tesseract is a 4D hypercube.
 
Tesseract (often stylized as TesseracT) is a British progressive metal band from Milton Keynes, England. The band, formed in 2003, consists of Daniel Tompkins (lead vocals), Alec "Acle" Kahney (lead guitar & producer), James Monteith (rhythm guitar), Amos Williams (bass, backing vocals), and Jay Postones (drums, percussion). The band is currently signed to Kscope. They are credited as one of the bands to pioneer the djent movement in progressive metal. As of 2015, Tesseract have released three studio albums: One, Altered State, and Polaris, as well as a live album, Odyssey/Scala, and the extended...
 
user1804599
Testament
 
Eew, Tesseract has clean vocals and shitty modern guitar sound.
 
user1804599
XD
 
user1804599
You should listen to CBT instead. It also fits the C++ theme quite well.
 
10:24 AM
I stopped listening to CBT in the late 90s.
 
user1804599
XD
 
user1804599
pork metal
 
user1804599
No, I listen to Wintersun.
 
user1804599
They'll release a new album this year with four songs.
 
10:28 AM
So... epic metal?
 
user1804599
It'll be epic yes.
 
user1804599
Yeah, that's some samples from the new album.
 
lol @ 1:53
 
user1804599
lol air guitar
 
user1804599
10:32 AM
I like songs about nature.
 
Have you heard early Vintersorg?
 
user1804599
NEIN
 
> I don't understand a single word, but it sounds awesomely epic
 
user1804599
Sounds like a potato.
 
user1804599
application :: Handler -> Application
 
user1804599
10:36 AM
This is so abstract I don't even
 
what a nice man
 
user1804599
Yes, you are really nice for making all these videos teaching people stuff.
 
Silly you, I meant the commentator (commenter?) :)
 
user1804599
10:57 AM
(*>) <$> a <*> b
 
user1804599
The function applicative (S combinator) is great.
 
user1804599
It's so useful.
 
11:12 AM
So, for no good reason I spending my time on ancient Sanskrit preprocessor tool. It has code like strchr("&\30\31\32\33\34\35\36",accent) which checks whether accent is one of the characters in the first parameter to strchr. Is there a better way to do this in C++14?
Template magic allowed.
 
@wilx oh my, this seems like a question for @R.MartinhoFernandes who actually wrote a unicode handling library
 
@Mgetz This is pure ASCII.
 
12:01 PM
@wilx Pure ASCII is Unicode ;)
 
12:15 PM
pretty sure that ASCII does not encode Sanskrit
 
12:50 PM
@Puppy It doesn't. This is a preprocessor. It uses strchr as poor man's member-of set test.
 
"We TOLD you it was hard." "Yeah, but now that I'VE tried, we KNOW it's hard."
7
 
 
1 hour later…
Ell
he's wrong about wayland -.-
 
> A living organism with unprecedented spread. Cancer.
unprecedented spread certainly does not mean cancer.
 
So I used google places api for some of my apps with some other interfaces. It's until recently when I have to update the apps for a couple of reasons did I realise that the way I organize those searches may not be logical, or could be better categorized
 
actually, as far as I ca nsee, he's just wrong
just "oh my god software complicated!"
 
@Puppy I agree.
 
2:14 PM
@rightfold agreed! So many of my students ask "when will I ever use this"
 
2:48 PM
By using latitude and longitude on google map, I know exactly where I will end up to if start drilling a hole right across earth
but such knowledge is mainly useless :p
 
3:00 PM
nah
acquiring knowledge costs time, and if you don't use it, you've spent your time for nothing, which is a poor investment
 
unless you derive enjoyment from the process of acquiring knowledge, of course
 
3:16 PM
then the true purpose is enjoyment and the acquiring of knowledge is an incidental side effect
 
There are knowledge with near zero value, like how to use a function that's going to be obsolete next year
 
@Ell he's right about systemd though.
 
you mean "systemd is a symptom of how software is a cancer"?
 
Ell
@littlepootis I'm not sure yet
 
3:33 PM
finally replaced the lightbulbs in my kitchen two years later
 
I mowed around 1000 square meters of lawn in the past week, mostly after fixing the lawn mower
 
that's more lawn than all the lawn in my street
 
on 2 lots
 
lawn mowing isn't particularly hard if you have a good machine and get the right setting
I did start with the wrong setting and 2 small patches of the lawn are nearly 'bald'
because I put it too low
mowing the lawn usually isn't my job
 
3:44 PM
@Puppy Very hard to say what "use" means, so that statement is kinda arbitrary.
And besides, you can't really measure how beneficial it was to your mind to accumulate that knowledge, either.
 
that is not an argument in favour
 
Come again?
 
you're assuming that just because it's unmeasurable, it's some kind of great positive effect.
but since you can't measure it, it could just as well have accomplished absolutely nothing.
 
No, but I'm nonetheless certain that learning has a great positive effect
 
"It's completely unknowable, I'm just certain that it has a particular value anyway"?
 
3:52 PM
I rather meant that it wasn't measurable how beneficial it was
I.e. it can't hurt
But it can be beneficial, and in most cases, it will
 
being above zero does not make it worthwhile at all.
 
Depends on how far above zero it is.
 
it needs to be beneficial enough to justify the time investment.
yes, but you just said it's unmeasurable.
so you have no fucking clue how far above zero it is.
for all you know it's 0.000001
 
As opposed to a normal clue.
Sure, okay. Then I put forward that stimulating your brain regularly helps it perform better on average, and that effect is significant.
 
great
 
3:54 PM
That would be an argument in favour of learning, even if you can't directly apply that knowledge.
 
why don't you go do some statistical studies on that?
 
There are, I'm positive.
 
actually
they're completely in the other direction
 
wtf
 
all those brain training games and stuff are junk
 
3:55 PM
Brain training != learning, though?
Do you have a link
 
@Puppy Said no idiot ever
I agree
 
also don't forget to prove that gaining knowledge is the best way or any useful way of stimulating the brain
as opposed to just, say, memorizing more facts
 
Ell
@Columbo just give up
neither of you are going to change your minds :V
 
make no mistake, gaining knowledge can be a useful and indeed, great thing
but it's not some blanket win in every situation
 
@Puppy Agreed. I don't go out and learn random shit for nothing, either. I gotta write exams in a month.
 
3:57 PM
you can't just say "I gained knowledge therefore I spent my time wisely"
 
some situations require you to have no knowledge... #maffia
 
@Puppy Well, if you gain enough knowledge, anyway, you can write a book for people who can employ that knowledge usefully
:P
 
assuming there are any
and the book market for them is not already saturated
and you can communicate that knowledge in an effective way
 
If there were none, who supplied you with the knowledge in the first place? People who distribute knowledge that no one needs?
Pretty rare IIRC
 
yes.
 
3:58 PM
:D
 
are you kidding? imagine the entire Republican party in the US
people distribute knowledge all the time that's flat-out completely wrong, let alone just not very helpful
 
Alternative knowledge is alternatively helpful, right?
 
hell, you can go find yourself some knowledge on what children look like having sex if you want to
but I hope you'll agree that that does not mean that we should condone it
 
@Puppy most common example "C/C++"
 
@Puppy That is a fucking disgusting example.
 
4:00 PM
I actually hate people who use C code in C++ files
 
@Columbo It's a completely valid example.
 
@Puppy Yeah, but that doesn't mean it was the best to mention
 
it was absolutely the best to make
 
You know he wants to make his point really bald when he takes out the heavy balls :p
 
it's a clear-cut case of where the knowledge should not exist or be gained by anybody
 
4:01 PM
Why, because your intent was to make me feel repulsed?
...
 
no, because it's a clear counterexample
 
You could also have said "learning C", but whatever
 
unfortunately, that's far too often contested
in any case, if you want to make an argument that gaining knowledge is always great and people always spread it because it's accurate and useful, then by definition you must include paedophiles.
 
@Puppy Another, more friendly example, would be COBOL?
 
if you want to make an exception for them, then you allow that there are exceptions, and then your argument is pretty much lost.
 
4:04 PM
@Puppy Anyway, my point was, if I want to e.g. read a book about lepidopterology, that's not just wasting time on relaxation, it could also inspire me or create interdisciplinary links in my brain. I don't know if this occurs often, but I feel like you don't seem to appreciate that effect.
 
statistical studies or bust.
 
If I can't back an argument by statistical studies, that doesn't mean it isn't worth considering.
@Puppy Arguments are not destroyed by exceptions.
 
well, in this case, it pretty much does, since you have nothing else.
 
Not necessarily, anyway.
 
or to put it another way
 
4:07 PM
Guys we know you are both having this discussion for the sake of a discussion, are you system architects / engineers or something?
 
your hypothesis is far too vague to be falsifiable in any other way
so if you rule out statistical studies you rule out it being a useful hypothesis.
 
At least make it more fun by making two competing programs that discuss with each other until one breaks the other by forcing it into repetition
 
Because it doesn't fit critical rationalism? #Popper
 
not necessarily
I accept logic as the basis for claims, not just statistics
but you don't really seem to have any
 
@Puppy I'm still certain that the brain, like any other organ, will benefit from (proper) stimulation. Perhaps those Nintendo apps don't do it the right way. Gotta look for an actual study though, admittedly.
 
4:10 PM
that sounds like wishful thinking
 
@Puppy Right, but how come children need to learn language at a certain age, otherwise they're mentally impaired for the rest of their lives/can't learn it anymore? We have real statistics. It seems that understimulating the brain in early years leaves it damaged?
 
well, for a start, those studies are clearly only done on the early years and have no applicability to adults
the guys who thought they might apply to adults made a bunch of brain training games, see above.
 
Gotta hit Sainsburys...
 
@Puppy scholar.google.com -> Neurongensis stimulants | I'm 100% sure you will find studies that a) compare the neuron output / development to reading/learning people vs non-reading/non-learning people b) by reading those articles you make more neurons which means you'll store more pathways for electrons to flow a.k.a. you know more
 
not a.k.a. at all
the human brain is an incredibly complicated machine and you can't just throw more neurons at it
 
4:15 PM
You can.
 
In fact, smaller brains may be more efficient
 
and frankly, even if you do know more, that was the starting point for our discussion, not the ending point.
 
Since the links are shorter and everything is more compact
(Up to a certain extent)
 
> my point was, if I want to e.g. read a book about lepidopterology, that's not just wasting time on relaxation, it could also inspire me or create interdisciplinary links in my brain

> statistical studies or bust.

/me links to a search result which if carefully inspected can find relevant studies

> people still complain and argue

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
your summary was not even remotely relevant
 
4:38 PM
^ Somebody has been hanging these up, on campus
 
Somebody is going to get exterminated by extremists :)
it's like hanging up "Hey people plz kill me thanks yolo"
Might aswell hang yourself after hanging those
 
"plz kill me" ~anonymous
IDK, I think its hilarious and I believe all religions but especially Islam are vestiges of a barbaric past and should be eliminated.
Fortunately, US immigration policies with respect to Muslim majority countries haven't historically been complete bullshit like some EU countries.
 
@Mikhail LOL
 
keeps that tiny amount of extremists at bay probably
 
@Mikhail I've seen a number of religious preachers on the Green/Wright intersection.
I guess UIUC is rural enough to have them.
 
4:48 PM
@Mysticial Or rather gay enough to have them. Actually they've been gone for a few years, it was these guys en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Jed
 
nwp
@Gizmo why? Civilization is not dead yet.
 
@Mikhail The ones I saw were students.
So glad I'm no longer in that UIUC rural shithole. There's absolutely nothing in that town. Not even an electronics store.
 
:-(
I miss muh Micro Center
 
I guess part of it is because I didn't have any friends down there. They were all in Chicago.
 
4:57 PM
@Mikhail I prefer Fry's.
 
So I'd drive up every May to join them at Anime Central. But that's just about it.
@JerryCoffin I don't think there are any Microcenters in California.
There's two in Chicago through + a Frys.
 
I feel you, mostly because that is where I'm at. Friends live in real cities, and I've been here for ~8 years and still don't know enough Mandarin to associate with the student body...
 
Maybe it would've been better if I was an undergraduate.
 
Life an undergad is always better
in Python, 12 mins ago, by Andras Deak
try:
     delete_it()
finally:
    no_seriously_delete_it()
 
Now I'm actually in Chicago. Most of my friends from undergrad who stayed in Chicago are still there. And now there's two Anime conventions each year. (Anime Midwest moved from central Illinois into Chicago.)
It's an the fucking airport is sooo much closer now.
 
Hop on the blue line, and I can get anywhere. Whereas at UIUC, I had to do those 4 hour Illini Shuttle rides between UIUC and O'hare.
 
@Mikhail I swear that is the microcenter near where I live, that's creepy
 
@Mgetz A lot of them look the same. All the Frys stores except the one in Palo Alto look almost identical.
 
@Mysticial as in down to curb cutouts
 
5:32 PM
@Mgetz They all look the same, the one in Cleveland is indistinguishable form the one in Chicago. Fengshui dictates that they should be placed always on the left side of the strip mall.
 
@Mikhail And there's two Microcenters in Chicago. And they look the same.
 
@nwp No one can do anything about extremists, even "Civilization" as a whole
 
@Mysticial Not to my knowledge, no. I've never been to one much west of Ohio or Illinois or thereabouts.
 
@Gizmo have you played alpha centauri? nothing more fun than destroying sister miriam
 
@Mgetz Heh, didn't play, I still have like 30 games I need to install and play on my home server, and 50 anime seasons to watch
But I guess adding one more to the list won't hurt
 
5:45 PM
> Because our brains are designed to prune away unused synaptic connections, our cognitive skills tend to dip after we graduate from college or retire from work. To stay sharp as a whip, continue to challenge your brain on a daily basis. Each time you learn something new and practice it, your brain will either change the structure of its neurons (cells) or increase the number of synapses between your neurons, allowing them to send and receive information faster.
> You can harness your brain’s inherent plasticity to learn new skills, build a better memory or quicken your speed of processing abilities, which will help to keep you sharp as you age. - Dr. Daniel G. Amen, MD
/cc @Puppy
Was pretty sure it was that way.
 
this... is not a study.
for a start, it seems to be a blatantly commercial website pandering to sell more quack remedies
 
No, but if you simply distrust experts in a field, then... whatever.
 
for a second, Dr Oz is a worthless sack of shit and if he said the sky was blue, I'd get out my umbrella
3
 
Jesus do you have some type of narcissistic disorder
What did Dr Oz do to you
 
you mean, apart from spending years appearing on television selling useless or actively harmful non-cures with absolutely no scientific basis whatsoever?
 
5:48 PM
> “By almost any measure, Dr. Amen is the most popular psychiatrist in America.” -- Washington Post
 
@Columbo Before you can "whatever", you need to actually demonstrate that they are experts in the field, and even then, the standard is that they have to back up their assertions. Otherwise, it's literally the definition of an appeal to authority fallacy.
3
 
Yeah, fuck Dr. Oz man
 
oh yeah
newspapers are the ultimate source of scientific truth and are never biased in any way
and commercial websites never misquote or misreport or flat out lie about what they say, too
 
@Puppy Right. Except I can't run around collecting proofs or disproofs for every statement that is made somewhere. At some point, we do need to trust that what an authoriative expert says is most likely the case.
 
furthermore, popularity directly correlates with scientific accuracy
 
5:50 PM
That's partly what specialization in a modern society is about.
 
and just because the accuracy of a guy might be overall high, this directly means that everything he said is pure gold.
 
@Puppy Nah, but it sometimes does
 
@Columbo Yes, except none of these guys is a remotely authoritative expert at all
 
@Puppy Yeah, except he is a medical doctor
 
and you don't trust an authoritative expert, they come to a consensus.
 
5:50 PM
@Puppy How many do you want
 
@Columbo So what? You can find idiot doctors who support anti-vaccination campaigns.
 
I can find quotations of maybe 10 today
@Puppy Where?
 
@Columbo all of them.
also, doctors are not neurological researchers.
necessarily, anyway
 
@Puppy Right. So when a certain portion of C fundamentalists claims their shit is the best, that prevents you from concluding that C is crap?
 
no
but I also didn't come to my conclusion that C is crap based on some other guys saying C is crap.
 
5:52 PM
But not all programmers reached a consensus about C
Ergo
 
no.
the situations are unrelated because I personally have direct knowledge of C and this is the source of my belief that it's a worthless sack of shit
what other people said about it doesn't matter to me one way or the other
 
Okay here you go
> Finally, Draganski and colleagues (2006) recently showed that extensive learning of abstract information can also trigger some plastic changes in the brain. They imaged the brains of German medical students 3 months before their medical exam and right after the exam and compared them to brains of students who were not studying for exam at this time.
> Medical students’ brains showed learning-induced changes in regions of the parietal cortex as well as in the posterior hippocampus. These regions of the brains are known to be involved in memory retrieval and learning.
 
for the record
the main author of the original study linking vaccines and autism was also a doctor
 
And now you're gonna argue that those changes induced by learning could've had negative effects in the parietal cortex
 
no
 
5:56 PM
No? Fantastic
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz you worked with linux graphics drivers before right? Were you working inside Mesa or do you know about the whole DRM system?
 
It only took me two hours to convince you that learning has a positive effect on the brain :)
 
I'm simply going to point out that medical students are not a representative cross-section of society, there's not a lot of data here (e.g. sample size), but most importantly, there's a massive gap between "changes in regions of the parietal cortex" and actual concrete benefit
 
Even exercise helps your brain develop
First, read this
Theta waves generate the theta rhythm, a neural oscillatory pattern in electroencephalography (EEG) signals, recorded either from inside the brain or from electrodes glued to the scalp. Two types of theta rhythm have been described. The "hippocampal theta rhythm" is a strong oscillation that can be observed in the hippocampus and other brain structures in numerous species of mammals including rodents, rabbits, dogs, cats, bats, and marsupials. "Cortical theta rhythms" are low-frequency components of scalp EEG, usually recorded from humans. Theta rhythms can be quantified using Quantitative ...
 
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