« first day (1867 days earlier)      last day (3064 days later) » 

user406009
12:01 AM
@BartekBanachewicz No money in that though.
 
user406009
I mean, on a whole spiritual "purpose of life" level, money really isn't that important.
 
user406009
Yet, it's nice to live a comfortable life.
 
@Lalaland i'm not in for the money
i'd really like to play better
and playing with people is really motivating
 
Ell
balls I broke my indenting config
 
@Morwenn Yeah, but it seems like the order of the input can form, in essence, a cycle, so there's no way to assure against moving an element more than once unless you're willing to use something like linear extra memory anyway.
 
12:11 AM
@JerryCoffin Yep. I will reimplement the algorithm anyway (it's not too complicated) and draw conclusions :)
Incoming std::vector<bool>.
 
Ell
cringe a classmate claimed Idris not being high on TIOBE to be a reason for it not to be taught
 
At the same time, a selection sort is utterly trivial, and assures that each element is moved (at most) twice, with a bare minimum of extra memory. In short, it sounds to me like you have to be really desperate to minimize moves before this is likely to make sense.
 
@JerryCoffin Hey, the guy talked about moving fridges in the description.
 
btw this is the band
the riff sounds simple (good) I like the drums, I could play this stuff
 
So, apparently every element is moved at least twice.
 
12:20 AM
Cinch is now doing music tutorials
 
Yeah, it seems that it does pretty much what I thought: it finds the first unsorted element, put it in place, put the elements in this place in its new place, etc... to achieve a cycle. Then it looks for the next unsorted element. It's a selection sort with less moves.
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin Don't you only have to swap n+1 times? Even if they are in a cycle?
 
user406009
Wow, only two developers for that number of people.
 
Ell
lol
 
12:26 AM
@Lalaland Hmm...I'm not certain what your n is here, but n+1 sounds like it's linear on something or other.
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin n is the number of items.
 
@Lalaland In that case, yes, that definitely sounds linear.
 
@Lalaland A swap is three moves. If you use raw moves instead of swaps, you can do fewer moves.
@JerryCoffin I always have problem with that one :/
 
user406009
So I guess the verdict is that is has half the moves of selection sort?
 
Basically, if you're unlucky, you should do at most 3/2 * n moves.
 
12:27 AM
@Morwenn You're hardly alone.
 
@Lalaland Unless some elements are already in-place and there is a specific check for that, a selection sort always does 3*n moves.
3*(n-1) to be exact.
 
user406009
So, @Nooble, are you off tomorrow?
 
@Lalaland Hell yeah!
 
user406009
Yep. Same here.
 
user406009
It's great.
 
12:35 AM
Also Friday!
 
user406009
Well, that's because everyone would just ditch Friday anyways.
 
user406009
Note how they never do middle of the week breaks.
 
Ell
I'm kinda confused. what is the "integer" of U+222B?
wait no.
I want U+222B encoded in utf-32
0x0000222B ?
 
@Ell yes
you can use fileformat.info to look this up
 
Ell
okay cheers bruv
 
12:39 AM
I'm going to sleep. See you tomorrow :)
 
Ell
nighty night :)
 
Me too. nn
 
Later...
 
user406009
Soon, very soon, it shall just be us North American people left.
 
user406009
Except for Cicada and Telkitty.
 
12:41 AM
^^
 
user406009
And Elim, because he is pretty much nocturnal as far as I can tell.
 
Ell
I am nocturnal also :P
 
Where's elim from?
 
user406009
@Jefery Croatia.
 
I am actually chronosynclastically infundibulated, so my time and place doesn't match any part of earth closely at all.
 
12:46 AM
lol
The level of racism
 
user406009
Is it still racism if it's true though? When you look at the statistics, blacks do perform much more crime in the US.
 
user406009
(Now this is due to socioeconomic issues, but it's still a fact)
 
^
 
@Jefery A simple observation of fact isn't racism. Yes, racism is part of what led to its being a fact, but observing the fact isn't racist in itself (at least IMO).
 
user406009
Now, certain parts of that statement are stated in a racist way.
 
user406009
12:48 AM
For instance, the use of Swaziland is a bit over the top.
 
midterms done
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure Congrats!
 
user406009
Welcome to freedom!
 
I did horribly
goddamn it
 
user406009
@Jefery But that does bring up stuff like the "Can facts be racist?"
 
user406009
12:50 AM
Is it racist to use statistical trends like that, in say hiring or banking?
 
user406009
It's actually my favorite ethical dilemma.
 
user406009
Simply because it is so ambiguous.
 
@Lalaland Facts themselves can't be racist. Making judgments based upon race is pretty much the definition of racism (even if there are statistical trends to support it).
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin What if your judgement is intended to help people?
 
user406009
12:54 AM
Like you are trying to identify problem kids so you can help them.
 
user406009
Is it still inappropriate to use race?
 
user406009
Like say you are trying to give a family a loan. If you take into account their race, you might be able to better predict their rate of defaulting and provide a loan that better matches their risk factors.
 
@Lalaland I wasn't talking about appropriate vs. inappropriate. The only question I was considering was whether it qualifies as racism. Even that's probably open to some question in a few cases where statistical correlation is strong enough though (e.g., association of sickle cell disorder with ancestry from parts of the world where malaria is endemic).
 
user406009
There's just something really odd about saying "No, you cannot improve your X predictor by incorporating race. Race is a banned criteria for predictors."
 
People never discriminate based on purely race
It's based on what they think is associated with that race
 
user406009
12:58 AM
@VermillionAzure Yes, but often there are rather strong statistical correlations between random stuff and race.
 
@Lalaland But does this imply that race causes crime? Race is but a vague label
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure No, it's just a correlation.
 
user406009
But correlations are useful.
 
If they're going to blame it on biology we need to get to lower levels, like gene sequencing or tracking metabolism or bodily chemical processes
 
user406009
I never mentioned biology.
 
12:59 AM
I know
 
user406009
I am only focusing on correlation.
 
I'm not arguing against you
 
Do blacks have a crime gene? Discuss
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor No. However, unfortunately, there are other systemic factors that end up encouraging a lot of African Americans into a life of crime.
 
@Lalaland If (for example) a bank can offer two kinds of loans, both should be offered regardless of race. Then it's up to the people involved to determine which best suits their specific needs.
 
1:01 AM
@Lalaland lol
 
@GregorMcGregor Feel free to discuss--elsewhere.
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure Oh I see. You are saying that racist people should spend more time in a lab to prove their views.
 
maybe they say "oh no I'm black how disgusting" => crime
makes sense
 
@Lalaland Most of the arguments they make are based on statistics or personal anecdote
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin The bank's job is to give an interest rate relative to the person's risk of default. If a bank can use someone's race as evidence that they have a lower risk (and are thus deserving of a lower interest rate), would that be ethical?
 
1:02 AM
@Lalaland No. We have gone over civil rights already and we cannot discriminate based on race.
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure What if we have a machine learning algorithm for interest rates.
 
We can discriminate on things that are associated with race and prove that a person is associated with those things that are associated with race without using transitive property to imply race => decision
 
user406009
And that machine learning algorithm decides (on it's own) to use race as a factor?
 
You still can't have "race" as a dimension in your vector
It can't decide on its own
You can't feed it that data
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor You can feed it names.
 
1:04 AM
No
 
@Lalaland Names are misleading as well
 
You don't feed names, religion, race, sexual orientation, etc
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor Would it be ethical to feed those into a system for doing medical predictions?
 
user406009
In like a hospital or whatever.
 
Today I found about the verb defenestrate.
 
user406009
1:05 AM
Like risks of different types of cancer.
 
Ell
Sure why not
 
Yeah sure
 
Ell
@Nooble lol
 
We know that blacks have higher risk of cardiovascular problems
Because of their genetics
 
@Lalaland Yes
It's being done. But race is correlated with genetic expression, which is the primary cause of the affliction
Race itself cannot imply this. It can only correlate.
 
1:07 AM
@Ell Isn't it great?
 
@Lalaland Of course not. The fact that other people with skin color similar to mine are more (or less) likely to pay their bills on time doesn't tell enough about me to mean much of anything.
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure I just want to note that people have done research on the relationship between race, names, and racism in hiring.
 
user406009
Resumes with more "white" sounding names have a better change of getting callbacks from recruiters.
 
user406009
I just forget the name of the study.
 
but that's illegal
 
1:08 AM
Yes, but that is not because one race is inherently less valuable than others.
 
it's not because people have nigger-sounding names that you shouldn't hire them
 
Societal trends are not necessarily unbiased or "truth"
 
user406009
I am just trying to show that people don't need to be given someone's race to be racist.
 
user406009
People are "smart" enough to infer race from things like names.
 
people will be racist anyway
 
user406009
1:09 AM
(And I am sure a machine learning algorithm would be able to perform similar tricks)
 
this is why we have laws
lol
 
@GregorMcGregor @nicka
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin You are right, it is pretty weak evidence of you being able to pay your bills.
 
user406009
However, there is some signal there.
 
user406009
I do agree with all of you that race should be banned in predictors for things like interest rates, etc, etc.
 
user406009
1:12 AM
I still think it brings up an interesting debate between what we theoretically can do, and what we as society should do.
 
user406009
And I do know some people who argue that race should be allowed in predictors.
 
well they are dumb fucks simple as that
and probably on the "good side" of those predictors
fuck them
 
Speaking of interesting debates: should a self-driving car kill you to save a bus full of children?
 
user406009
@Nooble No.
 
user406009
A self driving car should follow the rules of the road.
 
1:15 AM
depends if the children use tabs or spaces
 
user406009
You personally don't have an obligation to kill yourself to save a bus full of children either.
 
user406009
You only have an obligation to follow the rules of the road.
 
Unfortunately morals are very hard
 
user406009
I don't see what changes with the self-driving car part.
 
Because some people think that it is more moral and better to do so
Should we program computers to do moral things?
 
user406009
1:17 AM
@GregorMcGregor Well, they are. But that's simply because I don't really know any African Americans. They are a very small percentage of the college population and an especially tiny percentage of the CS student population.
 
user406009
I wonder why.
 
@VermillionAzure no, they should stick to immoral things
 
@Lalaland Your car somehow loses control and had to decide whether to hit a bunch of kids to save you or hit a brick wall to save them.
 
amoral*
 
@GregorMcGregor I know what I said
 
1:17 AM
@LucDanton s/r/rt
 
I wasn't replying to you!
 
@Lalaland Explain implication
What do you think it's caused by anywyas
 
user406009
I am not implying any implication.
 
missing meme arrow
 
user406009
1:18 AM
I truthfully do not know why very few African Americans study CS.
 
user406009
It's sorta a mystery to me.
 
@GregorMcGregor well you can have your opinion with hookers and blackjack OH WAIT you can’t
 
"I wonder why" is a pretty snarky statement when typed alone after a controversial statement
 
@LucDanton I am a free man I most certainly can
Additionally I have a test failing randomly for no reason this is very fishy
 
user406009
@Nooble In this scenario you should hit the brick wall.
 
user406009
1:20 AM
However, the car shouldn't be programmed in these terms.
 
user406009
The car should just care about avoiding collisions all together.
 
Does that make it a good hash algorithm
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor No. A hash algorithm has to be consistent.
 
let me find this how-to-humour kit I have somewhere
 
@Lalaland Yeah actually
 
1:22 AM
@GregorMcGregor you suck McBain
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure Similarly, I don't usually see a lot of latino people in those classes either.
 
user406009
But of course, that's just anecdotal experience.
 
user406009
Someone should do an actual study across many schools and states.
 
@Lalaland I hardly remember seeing any black or Latinos in my college classes (but maybe if I'd actually gone to class, I'd have stood a better chance of seeing people there).
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin Recent affirmative action programs have helped increase the amount of those minorities going to university in general.
 
1:24 AM
@Lalaland Pretty sure they have (and I'm pretty sure they indicate that programming is done predominantly by white males).
 
user406009
Actually, I am not sure if large scale affirmative action was before or after your time.
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin Then the more interesting question becomes why.
 
@Lalaland Given my age, "after" is almost always a safe assumption (even for things like: "when the earth started to cool....")
 
I went to buy whole milk and chestnuts
 
@Lalaland You might find that interesting. I'm not particularly certain I do.
 
1:35 AM
thought I'd let you know
 
Popup "Upgrade to windows 10" with 2 buttons "Upgrade now", and "Upgrade later"
I clicked "Upgrade later"... "Starting download"
What part of LATER is unclear Microsoft?
 
What part of "Upgrade" is unclear Borgleader?
 
where is the option
'NOT'
 
@Borgleader It's just downloading it now. It'll wait at least an hour before "Upgrading" you without you permission.
 
You said you'd upgrade later, so they're taking your word for it and downloading in advance
 
1:37 AM
@orlp The "X" at the top, right-hand corner.
 
@GregorMcGregor I'm not wasting 2.3GB of my limited badnwidth on an upgrade i might make in 3 months
tyvm
 
Though that won't stop it from asking you again the next time you reboot (or sneeze, look at it wrong, or much of anything else).
 
user406009
Is Microsoft planning to deprecate Windows 7 and 8? Why are they pushing people to upgrade so much?
 
@Lalaland I'm sure it has nothing to do with the spyware that even Microsoft not only admits is present, but openly states can't be disabled...
 
@JerryCoffin Especially since MS admitted to having secret meetings with the NSA.
It's more than obvious that Win10 is there for the NSA.
And also why China and Russia don't like it.
I have Win10 installed. And I have most of the telemetry under control. But I can't block anything that's sent out at kernel level.
 
1:43 AM
It's truly sad--although I don't particularly care for Linux, Microsoft seems intent on leaving me no other real choice.
 
At least not without a hardware firewall.
 
user406009
Does the NSA even have that level of power?
 
Yes
They can make the courts order it. And if MS refuses, they can get raided.
 
user406009
We aren't talking about just installing baxkdoors.
 
They're making MS the backdoor.
 
user406009
1:46 AM
We are talking about an entire shift in business strategy to encourage upgrades.
 
From MS's point of view it makes sense. You no longer need to support the old shit.
Win10 lets you spy on everyone.
 
I honor of Alex M
 
Oh my god I forgot to tell you guys.
There's an Alex M. in my class.
 
@Lalaland In this case, they don't need any real power. They just need to give companies a halfway reasonable excuse to do things they'd mostly like to anyway.
@Nooble Would be more believable if you had at least a little class.
 
1:49 AM
Whatever the case is, I'm 99% sure the NSA is giving MS a reason to push everyone to Win10. That reason could be in the form of a threat or a benefit, but to us it doesn't matter.
 
@Borgleader It'd be easier to tell if you really wanted one if she had the decency to wear a bikini.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh her too :) But y'see I can foresee a future where I can buy the onesie, I cannot foresee a future where im not single ;)
 
Ell
This is why we should use GNU software
That is not ironic
I should purge my system of proprietary stuff. I don't use much
Nvidia driver, I'm think of going to nouveau
 
good luck!
 
Ell
Or more likely amd
When the drivers continue on their path of improvement
I'd have to noscript also
 
1:52 AM
@jaggedSpire Those eyes :3 /cc @TonyTheLion
 
Ell
And then there is the issue of removing Facebook etc., that will be hardest
 
@Ell I think I'll switch to my own CPU first. Oh, and forget OSes completely. Just program to the hardware and be done with it.
 
@JerryCoffin you mean you don't see many geeks like @Mysticial?
 
@chmod666telkitty Not when my eyes are closed.
 
1:58 AM
rofl
 
my next avatar ...
 
@TonyTheLion I melted
 
Omg, MOSEK C API is the worst API I've ever seen
I mean, its C... but it didn't have to be so bad
 
in comparison to what?
 
What's so bad about it?
I agree it could be better designed but... I've seen way worse
 
there are better C APIs?
 
The parameter passing for the task is ugly, and those void* disguised by typedefs
HTML Tidy has a nice API... although it may not be fair because it solves a simpler problem
 
2:35 AM
yeah I agree it's not fantastic
but from there to "it's the worse API I've ever seen" then lol
 
Maybe I'm being dramatic because I couldn't get it working for the past 1h... also I haven't tried that many C APIs to make that statement something meaningful
but still... AAAAARRRGGHHHH
 
lol IDK I found it p simple tbh
maybe I'm just good though
vOv
 
24k vs 63 rep :-)
Watching CppCon2015 already convinced me I'm a noob
 
it was a joke ._.
I suck at C++ too, I am just pretending
 
Changing subjects, have you seen Expression Templates?
 
2:43 AM
I just cornered myself into a huge problem in my build chain fuck
Yes I don't like them
 
@GregorMcGregor lol, why? Useless? Excessively complicated?
 
Limited use cases for exceedingly heavy syntax
But then again C++
 
So Microsoft is try so hard to get everyone to stay updated. They even force updates with no option to disable.
But I can't get the November Win10 update even though I'm trying to.
Seriously what the fuck.
I want the November update because it bring back the window colors.
I mean seriously. The only thing worst than the Windows 8 solid colors is the Windows 10 ones which are white only.
Are they racist?
:)
 
@Mysticial You mean the interior symbols of tiles?
 
@VillasV The window borders.
They were transparent in 7. Solid in 8. And white only in 10.
 
2:53 AM
@Mysticial I never alter my Windows looks. I keep everything on default and use a blue screen of death as wallpaper.
 
@VillasV Go seek medical attention. Now.
 
Ell
I considered briefly generating an expression template for dynamic looking typing
 
@Ell "briefly"
 
Ell
ie generate a struct with thousands of functions, each which just perfect forwarded
Yeah briefly :P
 
user406009
You could probably do that more sanely when the reflection proposal gets in.
 

« first day (1867 days earlier)      last day (3064 days later) »