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11:00 AM
@Morwenn Looks like something an old Japanese woman would wear on her feet.
 
is this fast? does it take more program space? i need c++ to program microcontrollers. — cocco 1 min ago
lol
 
@Morwenn use RAII next time
 
RAIIyak
 
I need microcontrollers to program c++
 
@Morwenn you should avoid sports at all cost. It seems there's always something that makes it tragical
 
11:02 AM
@Rerito Yep, always.
 
@Morwenn next time try sit in kayak ... your feet wouldn't get sunburnt because yo put them inside :p
 
@chmod666telkitty Wat.
 
There's no « inside » in the kayaks I used.
 
there are two different types of kayaks in regards to the seating
 
11:04 AM
IIRC, they cannot be kayaks then..
 
@chmod666telkitty Those who understand binary and those who don't?
 
that's '10 types' :p
 
oh right :)
 
@fredoverflow Wow, smart kayaks already? iKayak release in Q1 2016?
 
@Morwenn That's a canoe kayak then
 
11:05 AM
A kayak is a small, narrow boat which is propelled by means of a double-bladed paddle. The word kayak originates from the Greenlandic Inuktitut language, where it is the word 'qajaq'. In the UK the term canoe is often used when referring to a kayak. The traditional kayak has a covered deck and one or more cockpits, each seating one paddler. The cockpit is sometimes covered by a spray deck that prevents the entry of water from waves or spray and makes it possible for suitably skilled kayakers to roll the kayak: that is, to capsize and right it without it filling with water or ejecting the paddler...
 
@GregorMcGregor We call all of them a kayak here.
 
it's more about the propulsion then :P
 
@Morwenn The one where you have the legs inside is kayak, the open one is a canoe (also called canoe kayak sometimes)
 
@Morwenn Liaaaar
 
@thecoshman what? no... in the UK we call canoes canoes and kayaks kayaks :\
 
11:06 AM
> We offer degrees in pedantry.
 
@MartinJames At least she didn't cut her feet during kayak shaving.
 
@Morwenn Where can I enroll?
 
@fredoverflow lol..
 
@Rerito No need to lie, we may just all be uncultivated as fuck.
 
@Morwenn That wouldn't suit you
 
11:09 AM
Don't worry, I'm used to be wrong and tell bullshit .___.
 
starwhore
 
@Morwenn Are you sure it was a kayak and not a bike? Then the sunburn would have led to bikeshedding of the skin.
 
@GregorMcGregor cockwhore
 
Anybody here did some hard time?
 
@fredoverflow You're on a spree there
@ElimGarak Define hard time
 
11:10 AM
@Rerito You try this one ;)
 
@ElimGarak I worked in Scotland for 18 months. Does that count?
 
@Rerito wanking
 
@Rerito Well, hard time would be serious prison time, but for the lounge, any prison time will do
 
@MartinJames that's "hard tyme man"
 
@ElimGarak Somehow I translated that to "having a boner"
 
11:12 AM
@ElimGarak isn't any prison sentence 'hard time'?
ergh, fuck people who don't write N consistently, with it sometimes looking like M
 
@thecoshman Could be, but the usual "hard time" is 8 years or more.
 
@thecoshman Not always. Depends..
 
ffs ¬_¬ of course someone has given it a definitive time span
 
Well, above 8 years is where the sentences are for serious crimes which make you "hard in the hood" and stuff.
 
@ElimGarak You know what else can be hard under the hood bby
 
11:15 AM
@Rerito cock engine block?
 
@ElimGarak yeah
 
@GregorMcGregor You broke an expensive GPU and they locked you up, huh
 
@GregorMcGregor smuggling?
 
No I just use MSVC
 
If you are sentenced to 8 years for the theft of, say $20m that is sitting on your account in Luxembourg, that's an income of $2.4m/year. You won't get that from JavaScript development.
 
11:16 AM
@GregorMcGregor notepad is cooler
 
scotland is awesome ... think about the loch ness
 
"Forgiveness is easier to get than permission"
 
imagine you are kayaking in the loch ness ... then you see a monster nearby
 
@chmod666telkitty TBH, I liked Scotland, especially after the first three months when I could talk to the locals.
 
Tommy Vercetti from GTA Vice City did 15 years, for example. For killing 11 people sent to rub him out in 1971.
 
11:18 AM
I went to Scotland on a weekend, I don't remember any problem with the locals. But they have their own currency, don't they?
 
Telkitty bushwalked to Scotland
 
@chmod666telkitty OH, the locals are very friendly, it's just the language difficulties.
 
I remember different currency notes, nothing about their accent. Probably because I was a foreigner to begin with.
 
@chmod666telkitty They have their own banknotes and coins. IIRC, they do not, strictly, have their own currency.
 
yeah, values are the same, notes looked different
 
11:22 AM
@chmod666telkitty It's badge engineering:)
 
Speaking of which, I have not traveled overseas for 4 whole years. Looking forward to start visiting other countries next year ...
 
@MartinJames well, you can talk to them on day one, but it takes years for any understanding :P
@MartinJames correct. It's just like N. Ireland money. It is still pound sterling, and still, strictly speaking, legal tender all over the UK. But a lot of places refuse to accept it, as they are not used to seeing it and thus don't trust it. Though not sure if they have their own coins...
 
@thecoshman There are many places in Scotland, (eg. Glasgow bars), where the potential for misunderstanding should be kept to an absolute minimum.
 
ffs, now some arse wants me to send them a scanned signature
 
@thecoshman BTW, congrats on passing d/test. It's such a pain taking taxis or walking to drug deals.
 
11:34 AM
@GregorMcGregor Isn't that death penalty?
 
@MartinJames "Can I have a pint of beer please" "You fooking diddy saw dat did ye? I'll fooking bun ya tight Anglish coont"
@MartinJames tell me about, the boot will have much capacity than my... bag...
 
@thecoshman Remind me of Lock, stock and two smoking barrels
 
@thecoshman Umm, yeah. Exactly. Safer to shtay schtumm..
 
@Rerito You realise that is a work of non-fiction
> Is there any way you can sign the Profile sheet and scan me a copy?
Erm... I'd rather not...
I'd have to get up and go all the way over to the printer, carrying a pen all the way
Then rage at the stupid shite trying to get it scan for me
@MartinJames see, what you don't understand is that was him saying he'll buy it for ya
 
@thecoshman Sure, but all first-contact situations must be handled with extreme care!
 
11:43 AM
@MartinJames hey, your hiring by any chance?
and does that come with accommodation? :P
 
actually half serious btw :\
 
Wanted to sketch a random logo. Circles never let me down.
 
> sketch
 
@thecoshman I barely have enough work to keep myself in beer.
 
11:46 AM
not my idea of a sketch, what you linked to
 
> C.43 - Ensure that a class has a default constructor
^ does this make sense?
 
that's like some dodgy lock company from the 2100s as imagined by the 1900s
@AndyProwl sort of
 
what if the type doesn't have a natural "default" value to represent?
 
@AndyProwl that's an exceptional case really
 
@AndyProwl It's an abomination and should be treated as such <3
But really, it doesn't make sense. Sometimes there is no sense for a default constructor. It needs way more information to be usable.
 
11:48 AM
For that vast majority of types, you should be able to have a default value of some form.
 
I don't think so
What's the default Date?
 
That rule is about trying to help make types that are compatible with algos that need default dates
@AndyProwl any time would suffice
 
@AndyProwl how can an object can be constructed without a default constructor when no other constructors available?
 
why not the epoch?
 
which epoch? You need a clock
 
11:49 AM
'the' was the only correct word in that sentec
@AndyProwl unix epoch
 
why unix epoch?
 
why not?
 
I don't think a default date makes any sense
 
it doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be valid
 
@TonyTheLion Man, 44 years just for attempted murder. I honestly think the US sentences go beyond what is necessary.
 
11:50 AM
it's a placeholder
 
you don't just create a date and say "well, whatever, I don't care which date it is"
 
There's plenty of types with no good default
 
so that things that require types to be default constructable can still work
 
That's silly argument
 
I agree with Cat
 
11:51 AM
There's already a perfectly good way to make any type default-constructible
Without compromising design
Wrap it in optional
 
What's wrong with Date() == Date(1,1,1970);?
 
why is that starred?
lol
 
any way, that's the idea behind that rule
 
@thecoshman It's arbitrary and not very helpful
 
> so that things that require types to be default constructable can still work
 
11:52 AM
@thecoshman Leaks implementation detail for one :P
 
@Jefery not really
 
Hiding implementation details is such a chore in C++
 
what is the default value for an Address?
 
@thecoshman If you need default constructability, std::optional<Date> provides one
 
2 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Wrap it in optional
 
11:53 AM
@thecoshman Why 1970-01-01 then?
 
@AndyProwl address is a string, yes?
 
"Some date but I don't really know which one" is not a very useful value to have
 
Well, I think the idea of that rule is more that if a type can be default constructable, make it so.
 
Is it the birthdate of the author?
 
@chmod666telkitty No, it's a user-defined type
 
11:54 AM
@Jefery why does it matter?
 
@AndyProwl an object?
 
@thecoshman Because you are exposing it to the public interface
 
Ell
@ElimGarak too many gradients :V
 
@Ell Yeah, I was exploring material definitions without actually making an mesh and rendering it in engine.
Scrapped it already and moved on to less frivolous things. :D
 
Oh wait, address as in street address, IP address, memory address?
what kind of address?
 
11:55 AM
what is the default value of a Color? What's the benefit of getting a default value you don't care about?
 
@AndyProwl black of course
 
@chmod666telkitty I think the example works for all of those, but I meant street address
@Jefery Why not black?
lol
 
Because the lowest value is black
 
Why not white?
 
11:56 AM
coz that would racist >_<
 
Because white is the highest value
@AndyProwl It's as if int default constructed to MAX_INT
 
so? it's also a "neutral" value
 
@AndyProwl Earth?
 
I mean, concrete examples aside, why would you construct an object with a default value you don't care about?
 
if you care about certain thing in an object, assign it a value
 
11:58 AM
@AndyProwl White is by definition the lack of colours
 
@Jefery right. Since I'm not specifying any initializing color, it sort of makes sense
 
Exactly
 
On an unrelated note, I'm literally pissing from my nose
@Jefery Oh wait, did you mean "black"?
 
wat
 
@Jefery Lack of hue*
 
12:00 PM
@AndyProwl Sorry I meant white
 
Then I'm not sure I understand
 
It's kind of in reverse in hex colours
I always mistake them
 
But it doesn't really matter, the point is, I don't think a type should have a default constructor just to pick an arbitrary 'default' value
 
In hex colours the lack of colours leads to black (#000000)
 
@AndyProwl Really? OK, I would avoid kayaks for now.
 
12:01 PM
In theory the lack of colours should yield white
 
@MartinJames I'm safely distant from anything resembling a kayak
Closest thing is my guitar
it's made of wood and has a hole
not sure if would float
inb4 not sure it would double
 
if you go to a bar and order a beer (without saying which one), you will get a beer by default. You got a beer, it can be any kind, but it's a beer you are after. This is like calling the default constructor. If you ask for a guinness beer, and if the constructor for guinness beer exist in that pub, a specialized constructor will be called. You just can not say people will not go to a pub and ask for a beer.
 
@AndyProwl Sure, but I think that with regards to colours such a value exists
 
if I go to a bar and order a beer without saying which one, they'll ask me which one I want. If I say I don't know, they'll say pick one.
 
@AndyProwl Not tue
 
12:03 PM
But that's quite irrelevant
@Jefery It's true here
 
There are bad bars where they'll get you some random shit, which merely confirms Andy's notion.
 
Here if you say you want a beer you get the cheapest blond one
 
@Jefery Could be, but it doesn't really matter
 
It matters to me!
 
@Jefery Ok, try asking for a cheap blond.
 
12:05 PM
Just like if you ask for wine you get the cheapest red wine
 
@ElimGarak that's where XKCD took inspiration
 
@Jefery Well, ok, but I still think the guideline is not good
Picking a default value makes no sense IMO
 
What? Always?
 
Maybe not always, but often enough to not make it a "core guideline"
 
It's a crutch because of C
 
12:06 PM
0
Q: Dividing by zero in a constant expression

fredoverflowMy toy compiler crashes if I divide by zero in a constant expression: int x = 1 / 0; Is this behaviour allowed by the C and/or C++ standards?

 
I don't remember what integer division by zero should do but I guess it's UB so I'd say 'yes'
 
Heeey, I made the WikiSort work with random-access iterators. Now it can sort an std::deque :D
 
@AndyProwl Well tbf many things in C++ work by means of default constructors
Nothing that can't work without in theory (and sometimes in practice)
But in general C++ has deep intrications with default constructability
If you were to ask me "what if you were to design a language, would you allow default constructability?" I would probably say no.
 
@fredoverflow 5.6/4: "If the second operand of / or % is zero the behavior is undefined"
 
@AndyProwl So I'm good? Hooray!
 
12:09 PM
@fredoverflow I think so
 
Lacking default constructibility makes C-array initialization difficult (who cares?) and harder to initialize a base class in case of virtual inheritance (who cares?)
 
(nobody) (nobody)
 
@milleniumbug Library implementers.
 
I'll keep this one out of our coding standards ftm
 
@milleniumbug You could require a specific value to initialize with
 
12:11 PM
Also it makes creating an object and doing std::cin >> a; difficult (I'd say that's a design failure of iostream)
 
I also think it's bad design
 
And it doesn't work well with std::tie either.
 
Reminds me of that getline() post by Eric Niebler
 
@fredoverflow I like how all the answers are parroting the same thing
 
@milleniumbug it's not. It's obviously a flaw of raw arrays
 
12:13 PM
It should have been: auto in = std::cin.read<int>();. :P
 
T no_default_constructible[512] = void;
 
I find Java IO classes less annoying than iostream
 
Which probably requires some .template read... shit
Maybe auto in = read<int>(std::cin);
 
it shouldn't be needed
std::cin is not dependent
 
lol I logged in to an old Google account to change password, got 'privacy reminder', trying to disable 'ads based on your interests' and it doesn't work
#fuckgoogle
 
12:15 PM
#dontbeevilormaybedowhatever
IRTA "Grand Shit Auto"
 
Listening to experimental Chinese electronic music. Not bad.
 
Just noticed that cat said 'fuck google' multiple times, 'fuck apple' several times, but he never said 'fuck microsoft' ... is cat a secret MS fan?
 
@Morwenn Does it sound red?
 
@ElimGarak It sounds a bit like IDM.
 
Ell
What is the reason that unordered_map must be implemented with linked lists?
 
12:24 PM
Uh what
 
@ElimGarak But there's indeed a small communist feel to it.
 
Xeo
@Ell doesn't have to be, there's no iterator stability requirement on insert etc for unordered containers IIRC
 
Ell
Hmm. Chandler has been lying to me or I am misremembering
 
Finally you have changed your avatar
 
Xeo
but I think the common implementations all have a vector holding iterators into a list, ye
 
12:29 PM
That's what the academic data structure also specifies
Array + Buckets
 
@Xeo There's a bucket iteration interface IIRC
 
Xeo
Yeah, but that doesn't have any iterator guarantees either, does it?
 
ye
 
@Xeo What do you mean?
local_iterator begin(size_type n);
const_local_iterator begin(size_type n) const;
local_iterator end(size_type n);
const_local_iterator end(size_type n) const;
const_local_iterator cbegin(size_type n) const;
const_local_iterator cend(size_type n) const;
 
Xeo
Well, a linked list as the bucket storage would only be necessary if you needed stable iterators on insert etc, right?
 
12:32 PM
oh, that
 
Xeo
Oh wait, nah
could also be the O(1) requirement (not moving around all the things)
Hm
Dunno
 
ohai xeo new face
 
Xeo
new face, old source
 
what is that?
 
Ell
> An iterator type whose category, value type, difference type, and pointer and reference types are he same as X::iterator’s
 
12:37 PM
Yeah I'm reading that too, but that sentence doesn't imply anything
but I think Jeff Xeo got it right
if you don't use a linked list then insertion cannot be O(1)
why did my brain classify Xeo's avatar as Jeff's
light blue background I guess
 
Xeo
very very light in my case...
 
also SW-NE directionality
 
Xeo
I'm surprised you even noticed it's blue-ish
 
I have a white theme
so it stands out a bit
 
Xeo
looks almost white to me
 
12:40 PM
also I was reading a 4-message cluster with bigger avatar
 
Xeo
@Mr.kbok blame mysticial
 
> makefile:17: *** missing separator. Stop.
FUCK MAKE
6
 
Ell
fuck C for not having polymorphism
 
@TonyTheLion make fuck
 
does np++ have a tool that highlights spaces vs tabs
apparently that error means I have space somewhere I should have a tab
 
12:53 PM
@TonyTheLion yes, you can turn on visible whitespace
and then convert
 
Aren't this guideline and this guideline redundant? (more specifically, doesn't the latter imply the former?)
 
Ell
also const correctness confuses me in c :V
 
there's const in C?
 
Ell
I suppose it makes sense vOv I feel like I ought to be able to allocate something const in C
but you can't because free takes a non-const pointer
and also alloc only get's you memory, I suppose it's consistent
 
@Mgetz well I converted all spaces to tabs, still the same error :(
 
12:57 PM
oh, ok, I thought C did not have const
 
@AndyProwl it does, but very few libraries use it appropriately
 
Ell
it's p pointless really
 
Xeo
IIRC const behaves differently in C
 
lazy is such an ugly word i prefer the term selective participation
 
Xeo
for "constant value" stuff
 

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