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Ell
Ell
02:00
Also GCHQ has most invasive spying programme of world I think
Plus we have high taxes
user406009
@Ell But, at least you have healthcare.
user406009
In some countries, the cost of that healthcare would offset the difference in taxes.
Ell
Ell
Unfortunately we have a cap on the number of doctors allowed to be trained
user406009
Same as in the US.
why?
Ell
Ell
02:01
Making NHS mostly the only affordable option
user406009
@nick Why is there a "cap" in the US?
Ell
Ell
And in US I don't see why at all, its a nightmare
user406009
Or why is there is a cap in the UK?
Ell
Ell
In the UK university is subsidized
02:02
I didn't realize there was a cap in the US but yeah I was asking about UK
that doesn't make sense though
Ell
Ell
So I suppose the taxpayer can only afford to train so many doctors when there is only one option for certification
user406009
The US has a similar type of cap.
Ell
Ell
Ie medical school
user406009
There are only a limited number of residencies and they are all publically funded.
guys
I'm a genius
Ell
Ell
02:03
Gratz
I have a slogan for trump's campaign
@Lalaland really?
user406009
More private medical schools can be built, but the strict limit is the number of residencies.
private universities don't offer their own programs?
"Vote Donald Trump, he's a white male."
rock solid
user406009
02:04
@nick Medical education in the US consists of 3 parts. 1 An undergraduate BS or BA in whatever (not really medically related, but still necessary) 2. A MD from a medical school. 3 A residency at a hospital.
user406009
The last step is only publicly funded.
Ell
Ell
The UK is also bad because we have benefit street
user406009
It's an interesting ethical question of whether they should raise that limit.
Ell
Ell
Also we have supposedly bad weather but I like it
user406009
I am sure the American Medical Association would protest that change because it would decrease physician salaries.
Ell
Ell
02:06
@lala get rid of the limit& public funding
user406009
Is it ethical for a profession to increase their own wages by artificially restricting the number of people who can practice it?
user406009
Would it be ethical for us to raise CS wages by limiting the number of people who can take jobs in software?
@Lalaland that's unfortunate
@Lalaland holy shit
javascript finally makes sense
and C++
Ell
Ell
We have CHAVs in the UK also
02:08
it can make you money?
user406009
@orlp In what way?
Ell
Ell
Time to sleep tho
@Ell nn bb
@Lalaland by designing it in such a stupid way that only a small amount of people have the patience to unravel the strings of half-digested feces
user406009
@orlp Cue this old joke.
02:09
More like JS is distributed everywhere and used for everything so wages can be driven down
user406009
@orlp Anyways, on a more serious note we would achieve those goals by creating certification programs and making it illegal to take software work without a certification.
user406009
Then we would limit the number of people who can get that certification every year.
@nick I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW
user406009
Rather trivial to conceive.
P.Eng work comes to mind
user406009
02:10
The question is whether or not it is ethical.
@Nooble haha
@Prismatic meh, that's not really the case though
Seems unethical to not allow people to do what they want for a living to me
demand outstrips supply
@orlp You've gone further than @nick
user406009
@Nooble We clearly have to perform CPR to save him. C Programming Resuscitation.
02:14
> conversion from 'X {aka int [(<anonymous> + 1)]}' to non-scalar type
wtf
user406009
@nick Not for very long though.
user406009
Have you seen the levels of people going into CS?
user406009
This is going to be the gold standard of education bubbles.
user406009
Law's time in the spotlight will soon be over.
not many have the aptitude for the math
02:15
> error: '(long unsigned int)((((sizetype)<anonymous>) + 1u) * 4u)' is not a constant expression
I didn't
could have told me earlier
user406009
@nick Not really.
I don’t know what that * 4u is about :(
user406009
High level math is not essential for most software jobs.
02:16
it certainly isn't but it's absolutely essential to complete your lower division requirements
@Lalaland Sounds like it'll kill a man.
user406009
You are underestimating BAs in CS, those coding camp things, high school CS education, etc, etc.
user406009
@Nooble Well, in real life, CPR does usually end up killing the patient.
user406009
The survival rate for CPR is like scary low.
BA has similar math requirements
user406009
02:18
20% or something if you succeed at restarting their heart.
user406009
@nick Depends on the school. And in many cases, the math required isn't "hard"
user406009
Well, compared to Math and Physics classes.
user406009
Software development is not that difficult.
user406009
(Compared to other things like people getting PhDs in Chemistry or Physics or whatever)
@jaggedSpire Look at this gorgeous motherfucker /cc @Morwenn @TonyTheLion
user406009
02:20
I would bet anyone that starting salaries in CS are going to go down at least 30% when adjusted for inflation over the next 5 years.
it's generally 3 semesters of calculus plus a few other fun classes like linear algebra+differential equations
user406009
@nick Linear algebra and differential equations are not hard math.
user406009
Those are mostly taught formulaicly.
user406009
"Hard math" usually involves a large amount of proofs.
none of it is "hard" math, but to do well in those classes you need to actually dedicate time to learning and practice
user406009
02:22
@nick Money tends to be a pretty good motivator.
user406009
And integration in calculus can be tricky. But most courses only cover "basic" integration techniques.
user406009
Differentiation is trivial.
sorry: unimplemented, but only when std::pair is involved
user406009
@nick Also, many people made similar arguments about law being "hard".
user406009
And then look how that ended up.
user406009
02:25
History repeats itself with scary results.
user406009
(Which is also the reason why we shouldn't invade Syria. The Iraq War was a clusterfuck)
well, the good thing about today's economy is demand for software/network engineers is very high
so you have a lot of options
user406009
Yes, but it is very possible that supply of software engineers will eclipse demand.
user406009
The question comes down to what percentage of the population can be a software engineer without the whole system collapsing.
user406009
And that's a very debatable question.
02:27
meh, most people won't even let themselves consider tech/engineering as a career path
because it's "boring" or whatever
user406009
@nick Have you talked to any young people lately?
user406009
At high schools or universities?
user406009
You would be very suprised.
well, my friends
user406009
Computer science is one of the top growing in demand majors.
user406009
02:28
I have seen reports of like 30% of the student body taking intro to CS classes.
I believe it, that's why if I have a good offer right now I'm going to jump on it
user406009
With like 10% of the student body being CS majors.
@Lalaland Yes.
have very little patience for academics anymore
user406009
I would just be a little careful with finances.
user406009
02:29
I for one am not going to be taking out any large loans anytime soon.
@LucDanton makes sense
user406009
The risk is too high.
sure
I have no outstanding debt, not even student loans (praise jesus)
user406009
Yeah, that's probably fine then.
user406009
The main people who get really screwed are the ones with large student loans.
02:31
if the economy goes to shit I'll probably have enough money stashed away to go and finish my degree
yep
> template<class U, class V> EXPLICIT constexpr pair(const pair<U, V>& p);
didn’t realise there was conditional explicit on that converting overload
though the federal government just rolled out a new student loan program where you only pay a fixed percentage of your wage at any given time, so you get a lot of flexibility
Are you saying that rates of pre-negotiated loans will also be affected?
and they write off any remaining debt after 25 years
Who would be insane enough to sign a contract where the rate can be adjusted upwards?
user406009
02:33
@GregorMcGregor Isn't that how a lot of mortgages work?
user406009
I also bet that in the next 30-40 years the pay of computer science will drop down to other white collar pay.
user406009
Sorta like accountants, etc.
Not in France AFAIK
user406009
It's just a question of incorporating more CS curriculum at the high school level.
user406009
Which they are doing as fast as possible.
02:36
A rate can't be adjusted up after it's been signed
I mean it can always be renegotiated
But it's not automatic
That's extremely dangerous
user406009
Yep, you can get fucked really easily.
How to crash the bank system (again), by USA
user406009
However, you can also pay a lower average rate.
02:38
good job
thanks man
we try
user406009
@GregorMcGregor I guess you have no pity for that person who messed up shorting a stock?
Okay I just checked it also exists in France but seems fairly niche
ah I read about that a couple days ago
I just recently started trading on margin. It can be dangerous
user406009
Why would you do that though?
user406009
02:42
Simply invest in an index fund and leave it be.
more money
user406009
Unless you screw up.
user406009
And then it's less money.
user406009
It's a zero sum game.
> I'll do whats needed and sell what I have to get them paid but if someone feels my pain and is willing to help out---who am I to say no?
02:42
yeah
user406009
don't short sell. especially not on margin
@Lalaland me when I started trading cryptocurrency
never again
user406009
Bitcoin is stupid.
kinda
overhyped IMO but it has its uses
user406009
02:44
Well, it's certainly a cool idea for peer to peer consensus.
@Mysticial Now that youre swimming in money. I'm assuming you have a sexy setup like this:
user406009
The ponzi scheme nature of it just sets me off.
@Borgleader mismatching monitors
@Borgleader all that money towards a nice setup and you couldnt find a fullscreen wallpaper
user406009
^
user406009
02:45
Also, someone needs to turn the brightness down on that bottom monitor.
user406009
Those blacks are unreal. Like actually unrealistic.
@Prismatic Its not mine
@Lalaland racist
it's probably a TN panel, the brightness/colors vary widely at different vertical viewing angles
yes, the VIA 9GAG.COM watermark gave it away
I wish I had made a content aggregator site and cashed in
02:47
@nick The TV is sexy, and I like the idea of having one right above my computer's monitors. (My monitors do match and I have 3 of them)
anywho, time for bed
@Borgleader No I'm not. The memory was only $200.
$200 to upgrade from 16GB -> 48GB.
@Mysticial I was referring to your working in the money business :)
@Borgleader glad to hear it lol
nn man
@Borgleader You've seen what my setup looks like.
using std::swap;
swap(first, __p.first);
wot
02:49
@Mysticial You were still at google iirc
@Borgleader Wait... Why does that matter?
were you ever involved with the google play team? just curious
user406009
Well, it seems that Mystical is very mystical. No one knows anything.
wow there’s an internal __is_implicitly_default_constructible, so libstdc++’s pair is also conditionally explicitly default constructible
now that’s attention to detail
02:53
@Mysticial "its been a while" ?
also non-conforming
anyway, bed time (like i said 10 min ago xD)
> constexpr pair();
@Borgleader I got a new monitor setup right when I moved here since I didn't want to bring it over from home.
And I'm still using it.
@Borgleader nn (again) lol
02:54
oh it’s documented
packing and shipping things like monitors is expensive and a pain in the ass
I want to pass in a list of buffers to a constructor. The buffers might be static, shared or unique. I can use a shared_ptr<char> for the last two cases, but what about the first? Any thoughts?
easier to just buy new ones after relocation IMO
luc stop breaking c++
I’m just trying to file one more bug
user406009
02:55
@nick The trick is to wrap them in blankets and take them with you when you fly.
can’t really pin down the root cause, so testcase will have to include <utility>
user406009
I have done this 3 times and I haven't broken a monitor yet.
@Lalaland you can't actually do that can you? :P
no way
user406009
@nick You have to have a suitcase with the right amount of space.
@Lalaland That doesn't work when you have 4 monitors.
It's better to ship them.
But even then, they have a decent chance of breaking.
02:57
probably the safest option is hiring a moving service
Either way, I was expecting my parents to "borrow" the 4 monitors I left behind. And sure enough, that happened.
user406009
@nick That costs more money than stuffing them in a suitcase though.
My dad needed a new monitor. So he walked 10 feet to my room, grabbed one of mine and carried it over to his. :)
what a boss
TIL Mysticial doesn't share a room with his dad
what about that day where he needed a couple million pi digits
02:59
template < typename Iter > constexpr count_format ( Iter,
{
    for
}
char a;
constexpr auto N =
    count_format ( a, a )
I guess I'll just copy the immutable buffer
entirety of reduced program
did his dad help him write down the digits?
> internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
wat
ah fuck it I need a break
break;
there you go
now back to work
03:04
@GregorMcGregor I can’t continue after a break
continue;
am I helping
unless of course I’m stuck in a loop after a break
Luc the Movie
Coming to a theatre near you.
July 2016.
> note: 'constexpr int count_format(Iter, Iter) [with Iter = const char*]' is not usable as a constexpr function because:
because
> - Are you seriously asking veteran C++ programmers to do your CS101 homework?
> - I'll pay.
03:12
Have any of you used folly's small_vec? seems handy
I can think of TONS of places in my code where I can replace std::vector... not sure if its worth the effort though
@GregorMcGregor inb4 morals
@LucDanton well don't leave me hanging m8
because?
@Rapptz yes, because
Well now. Finally I got the kitchen barren. And boxes to the ceiling. Let's hope the kids are sane enough not to pull them over :S
03:19
it will happen
you moving sehe?
@Mysticial This happens like, every week, right :)
@Prismatic kitchen is
user406009
@nick Morals are a figment of your imagination.
user406009
Also, homework is dumb so I have no moral scruples with helping people with it.
~thug love~
user406009
03:21
@nick Come back with more interesting moral dilemmas like "Are facts racist?"
@sehe I don't know actually. He hasn't told me how many are left (if any).
I presume he wouldn't take the one that's mounted to the wall.
But the other 3 are fair game.
user406009
(Which, despite sounding silly, is actually a legitimate question.)
I'm gonna have a brief pause for sleeping. Up at 6:30
2 hours should be enough (thank god I'm not gonna do the kitchen myself. Will still be plenty busy if not trying to "tidy" the rest of the house in such a way we can actually survive a week without kitchen)
lots of eating out and ordering in!
yeah :(
I'm gonna fight to keep the old fridge "live" for a week
Night all
user406009
03:26
@sehe Good night.
user406009
Hmm, it's about time to start thinking of game ideas for a project for next semester.
user406009
Does anyone have any cool RTS related game ideas?
starcraft AI
user406009
@LucDanton Why is count a template?
user406009
The bug seems to persist regardless.
@Lalaland ah, it’s required on my end
> error: 'constexpr int count()' called in a constant expression
is what I get
user406009
Actually you are correct, you get a different error if you remove the template.
not even a because anymore
user406009
03:52
Without the template:
user406009
test.cpp: In function ‘constexpr int count()’:
test.cpp:15:39: error: call to non-constexpr function ‘std::pair<_T1, _T2>& std::pair<_T1, _T2>::operator=(std::pair<_T1, _T2>&&) [with _T1 = const char*; _T2 = const char*]’
for(; item.first != nullptr; item = {}) {
^
test.cpp: In function ‘int main()’:
test.cpp:23:5: error: non-constant condition for static assertion
static_assert( count() == 0, "" );
^
test.cpp:23:25: error: ‘constexpr int count()’ called in a constant expression
static_assert( count() == 0, "" );
user406009
With the template I get the same error you got on corilu.
that’s actually a big hint
it’s the use of the user-defined, non constexpr operator= call that is responsible for a lot
now I can drop <utility>
user406009
There seems to be something really tricky going on when you have the template there though.
user406009
I mean:
user406009
03:54
test.cpp:13:15: sorry, unimplemented: unexpected AST of kind loop_expr
test.cpp:13: confused by earlier errors, bailing out
user406009
WTF gcc!
@Lalaland keep in mind that constexpr on a function template doesn’t mean the same thing as on a function
lol
@Lalaland well that was what we were hunting all along
20 hours ago, by Luc Danton
me too GCC, me too
that is a great error
I wanna take it out for dinner
user406009
03:56
@LucDanton Really? What's the difference?
user406009
The compiler cannot statically assert that a template function is actually constexpr until it sees the callsite or something?
-DESPAIR is what I should have been using
@Lalaland template<typename I> constexpr void incr(I& i) { ++i; } is correct

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