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02:00
@ElimGarak I wasn't banned often. I spend less than 1% time in suspension.
Frankly I seriously doubt human knowledge is advanced enough to judge what a "defective allele" may be. You don't fool 14 billion years of evolution like that.
But hey that's just ~~my opinion~~
And I was usually in meta chats during those times ...
In fact I just checked the BRCA Wiki page and it says:
Studies have shown that BRCA1 mutations are not random, but under adaptive selection, indicating that although BRCA1 mutations are linked to breast cancer, the mutations likely have a beneficial effect as well.
user406009
@GregorMcGregor We know that people with these alleles have 5 times more breast cancer than those without. That's quite significant.
@Lalaland Who cares?
Allele distribution benefits a population not an individual
Nobody cares about individuals
Evolution doesn't give a flying fuck about individuals
02:02
eh
Given the ability to wipe anything suspect ought not to be acted upon until technology to project consequences is made available.
That mutation is there and is enough spread that it most certainly also has advantages
user406009
Yes, but evolution only cares about reproduction.
user406009
We, as in humanity, care about quality of life.
user406009
02:03
BRCA1 only mainly hurts people past their reproductive years.
lol
also I realize I just wrote 14 billion years but it's 4 really
somehow I had the age of the universe in mind vOv
natural selection is hardly a factor in human genetics anymore
@Lalaland We, as in humanity, are extremely self centered and short sighted
I am highly wary of any "macroscopic" science which is nondeterministic, talking about chances and correlation is bullshit in my book.
@GregorMcGregor how dare you say that about me
user406009
02:05
Most things are non-deterministic.
We are not talking about quantum mechanics here. They just have no idea what things do and make correlations which may be something, but a lot of the time nothing. That's bad science.
@LucDanton I'm impressed you can read your screen from that far!
ahaha
user406009
Well, biology is a really hard topic. I respect everyone who works in that field.
user406009
02:08
The answers are harder because the topic is harder.
bby you know what else is harder
Not really a hard topic, just people who think being a biologist or chemist can be achieved without being an expert in physics and mathematics.
Problem is most people who haven't studied biology/evolution lack a sense of scale
People don't realize how small they are and how short their lifespan is
And how complex nature is
and we humans suck at large scales
user406009
That's why I don't really care at all about the large scale.
And that's why you're wrong
user406009
02:11
I live for myself and those really close to me.
You are now aware that you are incapable of projecting yourself a mere 2000 years ahead
What are 2000 years in the history of Life
user406009
Well, in 2000 years, we are all dead.
Oh well before that
And the cities we're in probably wiped or completely different
The language we speak also
Everything
I don't particularly feel like I'll be alive in 20 years, let alone 2000. :P
@ElimGarak Stop doing C++ then
02:12
ok be dtime now
dick time?
We are deploying a mitigation shortly, hang on.
Stack has been overflowing lately.
user406009
02:13
I really don't understand why anyone would attack SO.
Because someone downvoted their question or closed it as off topic
@Lalaland The same reason they climb Mt. Everest: because it's there.
They heard Telkitty has taken refuge here.
user406009
@JerryCoffin Well those people probably have better things to do with their lives.
user406009
Like getting a pet.
02:15
Pets are nice.
Mice are pets.
user406009
Our relationship with animals is sorta interesting. On one hand, we love them. On the other hand, we eat them.
Just like vegetables then
user406009
I think it just shows how despite all of our fancy ideas we are still primarily animals inside. Eating meat for physical pleasure is about as animalistic as you can get.
user406009
I really respect the conviction of people who are vegetarian for ethical reasons.
02:19
Not eating meat is a health hazard. One day we may be able to synthesize meat without chasing down chickens with a blade, but for now, delicious chickens.
I think it just shows how despite all of our fancy ideas we are still primarily animals inside.
orly
And here I thought I was purely a metaphysical being
Let's see what my 35 kg of cells think of this
user406009
@ElimGarak Not really. Sure, the perfect omnivore diet might be more healthy than the perfect vegetarian diet, but people can certainly live quite well off of an optimal vegetarian diet.
"Problem is most people who haven't studied biology/evolution lack a sense of scale" > I'm thinking astronomy.
Rolling our mitigation now, ETA < 7 minutes.
@CaptainGiraffe time scale
02:21
Astrophysics, more precisely. We always come back to physics, bbys.
Dear cells, we are doing a pretty good job at staying alive. Good job us. Sincerely, our collective self.
@GregorMcGregor Huh, is 4.5 billion comprehensible?
@CaptainGiraffe No it isn't and that's why
people are like "humans are the greatest shit ever and we're so good at everything"
pls
user406009
To be fair, everyone is a little egocentric.
Can't wait until y'all get anal probes from aliens.
user406009
02:23
It's sorta part of the human condition.
18 mins ago, by Gregor McGregor
@Lalaland We, as in humanity, are extremely self centered and short sighted
It seems that I'm not human, then. Misplaced my spacecraft, tho.
I can't understand stuff over a few hundred. Still I teach O(N squared)
@ElimGarak bby i'll let you probe me first
02:27
We are back online and monitoring all systems.
Nothing like 150 lines worth of a single pipeline state parametrization.
@ElimGarak That is where I started. I went on to compute stuff for the Cern Experiment at West Area 98.
@ElimGarak BTW I've been thinking about writing a simple shared memory dynamic allocator
because reasons
Write the voxel thingie you wanted, voxels are always fun to gawk at :D
user406009
Why don't you just use one of the existing ones? What special goals do you have?
02:29
@Lalaland There are none AFAIK (we're talking GPU shared memory here)
@ElimGarak Yes ;_;
user406009
Oh, you are talking about Vulkan/DX12 where you need to manually manage memory?
Manual memory management is awesome, but hazard tracking is a bit of a chore.
user406009
What's hazard tracking?
@Lalaland GPUs have a special type of on-chip memory which is called "local" or "shared" but you can't dynamically allocate from it
Well, goodnight
user406009
02:32
@GregorMcGregor Yes. I read through the mantle spec. Multiple pools of memory with different characteristics.
user406009
Some you can map onto the CPU, some you can't.
user406009
A big mess.
@Lalaland Reconciliation of writes!
@Lalaland Those can't be mapped
Only the global memory can be mapped AFAIK
ie off-chip memory (the largest and slowest one)
ICBWT
In short, hazard tracking is making sure resources get used in the way you said they are going to be used because there are state changes associated with many of their uses which only happen when you explicitly tell the GPU to "transition a resource". And making sure that resources don't get changed by one thingie while the other thingie is trying to read from it (or has been reading from it and got the rug pulled from under it). Avoiding data races, essentially.
user406009
Ah I see, the mantle pdf has a section on hazard tracking.
user406009
02:35
Basically sounds like avoiding race conditions.
And ensuring resources are properly transitioned, before the driver did the safest thing for you (which incurred a performance penalty with many a state change often because the safest thing to do can be omitted in many use cases). The API trusts that you know what you're doing, and by extension the driver.
With DirectX 12, there is the GPUs accessing the directly-mapped system memory and the local video memory, the CPUs accessing the system memory and n-th card's video memory, making round trips to make things from card #m available on card #n, all the while ensuring proper synchronization. Also, potentially GPU #0 which is integrated and UMA-esque.
@GregorMcGregor lol
With proper usage, you can theoretically get 30+ TFLOPS with today's hardware.
user406009
@GregorMcGregor Wouldn't an arena allocator be optimal for most GPU workloads?
@GregorMcGregor tell that to Paul Atreides
user406009
02:42
Seems like most of the time you only allocate for one render and then free.
I do general purpose compute actually, not rendering (but you're right about the arena thing)
Freeing is not really a theme in rendering, rampant reuse is. I am really wondering if November is going to have any GPU releases.
@Ell oh man I am making this tikka masala recipe and it smells amazing /cc @Morwenn
user406009
@jaggedSpire Want to share the recipe? I love tikka masala.
user406009
02:46
@ElimGarak Do consumers actually buy new GPUs anymore?
I've never made it before, so it's an experiment
user406009
You hit diminishing returns quite quickly because current GPUs are so good and most games are console ports anyways ...
Yeah there hasn't been a lot of hardware innovation lately
On the programmability side however it's getting better by the year
So if you're using GPUs for compute, upgrading is definitely worth it in terms of ease of programming / new features
Newest GCN iteration + HBM (4096-bit interface, 512 GB/s bandwidth)... I think I'll be able to pull of my full GI approx algorithm in proper realtime.
02:48
Maxwell for example is really a nice architecture
A joy to work with
user406009
I wonder if the compute market is larger than the gaming market now for high end GPUs.
user406009
@ElimGarak You can do it right now. Only fools need more than 240p.
High end compute GPUs are usually not the gaming ones and they are vastly more expensive
user406009
I would guess the compute market is also a lot more performance sensitive.
@GregorMcGregor if you think about it it’s in the name
02:51
@Lalaland It is, but it also cares about features mostly absent from the gaming industry: 64-bit floating point performance and ECC memory to name a couple
@Lalaland 240p doesn't seem like a lot.
@LucDanton What's next, Supergood
user406009
That reminds me. I never did rewrite that bioinformatics algorithm to take advantage of the GPU.
user406009
Stupid expensive matrix exponentiation.
user406009
@Mysticial Well, it was enough for GBA games. And those were a blast.
user406009
02:54
I still have yet to find a phone game better than a lot of those old good GBA games.
Nostalgia doesn't equal quality. :P I for one will enjoy the shit out of Fallout 4, with all its flaws.
user406009
Nah, I have recently replayed a couple and they were still good.
user406009
Final Fantasy Tactics still beats the shit out of most mobile games.
No they're not. They're good when we were kids. Now our eyes require 1080p at minimum to retain sanity.
user406009
Isn't it the other way around? With vision getting worse as we get older?
02:56
This seems like a good opportunity to mention that Heart of Thorns is the shit :v
@Lalaland I'm tempted to pull a Jerry and Martin joke.
@GregorMcGregor droid was nerfed tonight
@LucDanton Is it? pls expand
user406009
@ElimGarak But the lighting won't be 100% physically accurate!
@Lalaland No lighting in games is physically accurate, merely physically based. :P
03:00
@GregorMcGregor The fun in playing it reminds me a lot of the fun in playing GW2 at release. Everything about exploration & characterisation. What’s different is that they’re so much better at making the game now. Things like scavenger hunts and map completion have a lot of their old flaws removed. And there are also e.g. adventures, which really are activities 2.0 (remember Keg Brawl?). So that seems to be the theme of the PvE: do what everyone loved, but better.
Fallout 4 vs Fallout 1. I know the Lounge likes to deal in extremes, but games have evolved tremendously.
E.g. whereas exploration at release was fun, objectively the open-world PvE was… well, simplistic. HoT mobs are a notch above and meta-events are much more interesting than e.g. bum rushing the Svanir Shaman. It’s mobs & meta-events 2.0!
The fun in playing it reminds me a lot of the fun in playing GW2 at release. Everything about exploration & characterisation.
pls ;_;
PLS
user406009
@ElimGarak Although you can still spot the incorrect shadows on that shirt :P
I want that feeling again
03:02
they’re better at telling a story, too. Those three things (open world, meta-events and personal story) are the three strong points about HoT atm, I know that much even though it hasn’t been a week.
@GregorMcGregor I want the feeling of that fateful Friday night back in 2005 when I ran WoW for the first time.
(Never played MMOs before that, it was really special for me)
user406009
I want that feeling back when I first joined this room.
user406009
Before I learned what everyone on here was actually like.
@Lalaland The feeling of regret and the need to click leave? :D
Loungers are actually pretty nice for the most part.
@LucDanton Did they also fill the land with things to explore and discover and stumble upon and be amazed at and cross half the map accidentally when all you wanted was to collect a few scallions
03:05
@GregorMcGregor yeah…
I thought they front-loaded it on the first map, but I actually went seriously exploring 2 of the other maps today.
user406009
@GregorMcGregor Sounds sorta like you would like the Fallout games.
user406009
They are pretty much like that.
it’s really dense re: cool things to find
@GregorMcGregor For you, bby.
@ElimGarak Saw it the other day :) very neat
But not my style of universe
03:08
I'd offer Mass Effect, but it is built on top of Unreal 3, so it is basically a mashup of levels where linearity is obfuscated.
user406009
Mass Effect is a completely different sort of game than Fallout.
WTB 64-bit depth buffer
user406009
Time to go to sleep. Have fun guys and gals.
Okay whats worse TCL or Fortran syntax?
03:13
it tickles me in all the wrong places
Fortclan
WTF?! I just woke up and done my daily morning routine.
Except it is 4 AM only.
I should be asleep!
@ElimGarak So, instead of cats she chose birds?
lol the official TCL domain got taken over by some spam offering me MILFs
only MILFs use TCL
@GregorMcGregor it’s funny as I was trying gliding I was thinking 'well this is cool but I don’t see how they can manage jumping puzzles if they have that in the game now', and then I more or less walked into one.
so chrome is now stuck on dvorak kb layout
this will be fun
03:20
I just realized named operators allow for Python-style ternaries. (named operator credit)
It'll probably be fixed if I close and reopen, but I think I like this. Sure I can't type a damn thing in chrome this way--I'm entering this all by copy-pasting from sublime text, but I use chrome most, so I'll have to learn dvorak this way.
@LucDanton flied into one? :D
You can always count on me to write the worst C++ snippets
@GregorMcGregor close! jumping mushroom sent me into one. I was looking for a high vantage point from where to glide from though
I'm still learning the home row. :D
03:25
@Mikhail lol
New episode of The Blacklist. Very excite.
I really love Chronomancer. I actually feel like it feels more mesmer-y than base mesmer does!
I’m mixed on elite specs so far. Going to take a while before figuring all that out though.
Lucmancer new meta
@GregorMcGregor they also nerfed engi survivability tonight and it has nothing on reaper
that sucks
03:39
otoh reaper survivability is predicated on number of enemies, the more there are the merrier—which flips normal necromancer survivability on its head
given how that (lack of) survivability is arguably a flawed design, maybe it’s intended to work like that?
This is what a bad SQL query looks like at Stack Overflow scale. #monitoringlove @grafana http://bosun.org https://t.co/KQQ5rJU075
good job
wtb native linux client
what should I do with all this coconut milk?
ship it to me
03:51
:( It's an opened can, it'll arrive as a mess.
@jaggedSpire rice, sauces
probably tons of desserts, too
I want coconut milk now
@LucDanton so you're saying that the next week should be dedicated entirely to cooking Indian food? :D
same as the previous week
make coconut jelly
03:53
how, by buying bananas?
I was expecting something like that
well this is our jam
04:05
@chris I dunno about truly the worst, but it's definitely in the running. On the other hand, you're hardly alone in writing code to abuse operators. For one old example (thankfully now thoroughly obsolete):
0
A: Abusing the comma operator in C++

Jerry CoffinIt's possible to make this work, for a sufficiently loose definition of "work." Here's a working example I wrote in response to a similar question some years ago. It was fun as a challenge, but I wouldn't use it in real code: #include <iostream> #include <algorithm> #include <iterator> #include <...

my entire apartment smells amazing. :)
@Mysticial I'd just can't see how my failing vision would be a joke.
Fuck. I got caught.
@ScottW hey, good night.
night Lounge.
@ScottW ayup
:)
Hmm...I wonder if somebody just might have misunderstood what computer science is about:
-2
Q: Desktop fans becomes too loud after 30mins

user2163205I am having a problem with loudness of my desktop Configuration AMD Athlon X4 750k (3.4ghz, FM2) AMD Radeon R7 250 1gb DDR5 2x 4gb HyperX Kingston Ram 1x HDD Seagate 500gb 7200RPM 1x SSD Transcend 64gb (low-class) 500W power supply There are two oddness in my opinion and I would like to heare ...

04:16
Is the x86 Architecture specially designed to work with a keyboard while ARM expects to be mobile?
4
lol
@ScottW The 750 thousand RPM fan is pretty impressive though...
Both of my two ARMs are mobile. They end in units humans in my part of the world commonly call HANDs, though I don't know what that acronym stands for.
@ScottW hey juicy
I suspect a conspiracy.
04:32
@jaggedSpire Human-Android Network Device.
custom shaders or what
don’t think so
looks sharper than usual
certainly sharper than my usual
all I know is that the game can look really good, just not on my end
Well I play on max settings and idk it doesn't look crisp like that
05:00
@GregorMcGregor In any case I hear SweetFX is popular.
@Mikhail When did you find RMS wrong?
After
is was okay in the Before
@Mikhail So do want me to tell you to go fuck yourself or is it just a funny?
Don't you have anything better to do than to pretend you know what you're talking about?
Love the Internet scolding the Telkitties of this world.
It's not because RMS is socially inapt that the content of his message is wrong
05:10
I don't have much against RMS, although he represents an extreme viewpoint that nobody should live.
Really? Most of what he's predicted so far is essentially true
but should you avoid non-gnu software?
All other things being equal?
then it's not a fair comparison
05:12
well thats what he wants
well it's a nice ideal isn't it
What if we wanted to write commercial software?
@Mikhail Do you you know about Fielding?
I'm not getting in that discussion again, sorry.
@GregorMcGregor :-)
@GregorMcGregor FYI, I'm writing this from a computer running Gentoo
05:15
gentoo is cancer
I like it, everything works, I understand everything and I can fix it
you should get two medals
don't thank me, thank the portage team
You have no history. you have no understanding.
So, a guy asked for a free roam in Alien:Isolation on Steam, the second page of the topic is about fundamental christians, god and religion. What the fuck is wrong with people?
05:17
@ElimGarak Are you really that new
IDGAF right now, I want to free roam Sevastopol!
thanks for sharing that link I will read it avidly
No, you won't, you have a brain. Every post is basically a short story of full retard.
how does C++ select which catch block to run?
typeid?
@Cauterite No. E.g. if you throw a subclass you can catch it through a reference to a base.
05:27
@LucDanton doesn't the typeid have a reference to the base class's typeid?
@Cauterite No.
@Cauterite have a look
huh, that's kind of surprising
do you know the right answer then?
yes he does
tease him a little more and he will give in
lemme just grab my teasing stick…
@Cauterite the right answer to what?
05:32
@LucDanton how C++ dispatches exception to catch blocks
there is no answer
@Cauterite Which part of IMPLEMENTATION-SPECIFIC don't you understand?
There is nothing implementation specific about catching exceptions.
I am not talking about catching exceptions in general, but his original question is implementation specific.
the real question is how does MSVC2015 transport first chance exceptions across threads. Actually I don't really care because my code is flawless.
05:34
of course the unwinding process would be implementation-specific, but I did not suspect that the actual selecting of the catch blocks to be implementation-specific
it’s not, the semantics are well-defined
@Mikhail that sounds like the most heavy-duty exception handling i've ever heard
@Cauterite Your question is: how is exception handling typically implemented
okay, sure
@LucDanton despair
05:36
The language is not the implementation
Unless it's Rust
wait!
alright lets put it this way; we're unwinding the stack, we encounter an SEH entry or whatever the current platform is using. the corresponding try/catch statement has multiple 'catch's. what happens next?
control flow proceeds to the appropriate handler or unwinding continues
and what happens in the handler?
it’s run (the active exception being bound etc.)
05:40
what does it do?
Everything that’s in the handler :v
well it sounds like there's a step missing there
The step where you invest some research effort before asking questions.
i tried that step, but struggled to find anything relevant
there’s a lot of bookkeeping that we’re handwaving here, e.g. access to the active exception through std::active_exception etc.
05:44
should i just disassemble a program to see what happens?
you are free to live your life
@LucDanton Don't tell me what I can do!
If that doesn't fix it, git.txt contains the phone number of a friend of mine who understands git. Just wait through a few minutes of 'It's really pretty simple, just think of branches as...' and eventually you'll learn the commands that will fix everything.
15
06:04
@Cauterite Not to be complete abrasive dicks as it is Friday... C15 of the standard deals with exceptions. There, you will find what is asked of implementation to abide by in concise legalese. Implementations need to abide by it, but behind the walled gates, they're free to do it in whatever way they deem possible. Exception facilities live in the C++ runtime. All of this can be inspected by skipping around clang++ and g++, if you're so inclined.
@ElimGarak thanks
Whatever your questions may be pertaining to depths of C++ (how stuff works), always go to the standard. What it doesn't specify is naturally implementation-specific territory. Fair warning, it may not be the most productive investment of your time (jogging around in the implementation, they're exorbitantly large clusterfucks).
i thought it would be a simple question :/
Exceptions are in concept simple, but the Lounge doesn't like to write chat messages longer than 3 lines on a widescreen display. Optimally, one line per message. And the details require an entire clause in the standard and are the most concise detailing of exception inner workings.
06:20
Can't wait for the late afternoon. Delicious drinks await.
Yesterday was Thursday, Thursday
Today i-is Friday, Friday (Partyin')
Build 10576 is available. Can't wait for it to brick my machine.
ur an insidr ary
@GregorMcGregor Yeah, usually the preview builds add nice functionality (which should've been around since Windows XP, but welcome nonetheless).
"Digitally the game will become available on November 10, 2015, at 12:01 am (local time) in all territories (In North America, the unlock time will be 12:01 am EST), except Asia (available at 12 am on Wednesday, November 11th) and Japan (available at 12 am on Thursday, December 17th)."
What is the reasoning behind Japan getting fucked? Localization issues or just legal idiocy?
06:34
well, now i have my answer
it uses typeinfo >_>
@Cauterite Yup, Luc told you that the first time around. :P It holds impl specific info.
what? no he didn't!
1 hour ago, by Luc Danton
@Cauterite have a look
@ElimGarak he said that to support his denial of my typeinfo theory
pointing out that std::type_info doesn't have enough information
Probably a misunderstanding, but there are a lot of details beyond just type_info. :P Keep digging, it's going to take a while. :P
06:40
no i'm done, it's all right in front of me now
in this handler it calls __rtti_match() in a loop to test the thrown typeinfo against each of the potential catch types,
__rtti_match() calls itself recursively for derived types,
once it finds a match it adjusts the stack frame so that it returns in to the correct catch-block code, and returns
I am preparing my body for the preload of Fallout 4. We-we so excited.
HRG
HRG
hi glad to check in a C++ live chat session .!!
2
HRG
HRG
have so many random doubts . here is one --> Interface *f = new Concrete(); so is f an object ? or is there any special naming convention for "f" here ??? ( its about interfaces in C++)
@HRG yeah 'f' is a pointer to an object of type Concrete
06:46
RIP Lounge
HRG
HRG
ohh cool ! thanx :)
don't hesitate to ask whatever's on your mind
(ideally make it relevant to C++ though)
HRG
HRG
@Cauterite yea sure !!

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