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08:00
either way, i think any language beats the abomination of Lotusscript, formula, etc. that I have to work around atm
Every language has a place and a potential user. For me, "production language" has always been C++. And I've been fortunate not to be forced into a job where Java had that title. But as much as I don't like it, Java also gets shit done.
user1804599
Java is great.
user1804599
Glorious tracing garbage collector master race.
RAII to Deep Space 9 and back.
user1804599
Versus RAII savage.
08:03
@ElimGarak Yeah, i think it's six of one half a dozen of the other. Crucially, any language becomes a complete ball ache to work with if your team aren't so great at clean code. I've seen javascript contorted in some particularly impressive ways
JavaScript lends itself well to retards, too permissive.
I find java can do that also, but for different reasons - java dev will try and library everything to high heaven and you end up with extremely convoluted methods for essentially building json strings
Also, I don't like people who don't like Boost.
although it at least compiles, the amount of times i've had to debug a runtime error in js because of some pretty obvious edge cases
Boosts the spirit and soul.
08:06
never used it, i'm unenlightened
If you respect and utilize the gifts of the C++1x specs, it can be forgiven.
c++ is in my current study cycle, along with C. Although, in retrospect, completely different approaches to almost everything i guess
Also, just joking, I like all people.
Beside that asshole that pulled a knife over a parking spot.
so i completely appreciate why C++ devs discourage trying to learn C as a prerequisite, although I do enjoy getting at least a bit of an insight into how to implement stuff like strings, which i take for granted in every other language
did you part over his daughter?
*park
Mmmm. Guys. Is that ... thing ... what I think it is? (^timed link)
08:11
The tetris-like room?
@AdamKewley someone threatened to put a sticker on his windshield because he refused to repark in a proper room
@ElimGarak In the middle of the desk island. It's a ... -saur of sorts :)
So he completely normally reacted, first with a baseball bat and then with a knife.
user1804599
@sehe what thing?
seems violent
@sehe Ah yes, I see it and now I want it.
user1804599
08:12
yes that's a dinosaur statue
also, that workplace just seems too staged
@sehe The other description I had in mind was 'fertility symbol'.
Also, I hate those "we are so cool with no private space to work in" hipster startup work places.
@sehe it's a t-rex model, but yes, looks very phallic at that angle, you big grown up you
08:13
i think, when you've written E=mc^2 on your blackboard in order to fill it with some content for the video footage you're essentially attempting to beam the message "ALL THE YOUNG TALENTED GUYS ARE HERE, LOOK, THEY KNOW THAT ENERGY AND MATTER ARE INTERCHANGEABLE, INVESTTT"
Cubicles all the way.
user1804599
If Morwenn doesn't work there, it's not worth working there.
@LucDanton :)
what's the big deal, I almost have the Gaurdians of the Galaxy on my desk vOv (missing Rockt, god damn frigging mystery boxes!)
@AdamKewley I'd challenge them to derive that final form. 0 could do it.
08:14
@ElimGarak also, yes, no private offices is always a bit of a confusing thing for a tech firm that likely mostly employs introverts who were grown up on a diet of while loops and railguns
user1804599
@sehe looks like a horrible place to work, TBH.
@elyse So, I'm just imagining then
@elyse :D
user1804599
Sitting near other people like that is a nightmare.
Sounds like an office, the way you describe it
sehe is just browsing cool hip places for us to mock.
08:15
@elyse ikr
user1804599
It's impossible to concentrate due to noise.
@elyse Yes.
@ElimGarak I can share way more hilarious bits. Like the add for "Phenomal C++ Engineer"
user1804599
I want to try cubicles.
Just, start tenderly. It's not for beginners
08:16
Bethesda Game Studios has cubicles. And we're getting Fallout 4. Coincidence? No.
user1804599
With thick sound-free walls.
@elyse you mean sound-proof... I think...
With thick, sound-proof fools
They had cubicles since they started working on Morrowind. Before that, the company almost went bankrupt.
08:16
> Ashley Madison: 'Suicides' over website hack
@Prismatic Good.
Why would you need to put suicides in single quotes
balls deep attempting to debug why on earth his validation engine fails when Margret puts her birthdate of 30th February 1920 into the form "Hey Adam, whatcha doing? Want to pair? I've just posted some pics of the office on twitter! So stoked for next weeks alpha early-access reveal"
user1804599
@thecoshman yeah whatever
@Prismatic anticipating the dark news of 33m suicides
08:17
@ElimGarak edgy
@Prismatic Good question. I heard it yesterday without the irony/scare quotes
@Prismatic people seem to not realise what it means
'Suicides' over "website" 'hack'.
> Addressing the hackers, known as The Impact Team, acting staff superintendent Bryce Evans of the Toronto police said: "I want to make it very clear to you your actions are illegal and we will not be tolerating them. This is your wake-up call."
Possibly also over, under and by
user1804599
08:19
@sehe go work for Google.
Why is the Toronto PD directly addressing the hackers ... pretty dumb
@Prismatic Their balls are shaking.
From masturbating.
user1804599
@sehe of Amazon
@elyse No. Unless they relocate
@sehe Y u no start some shit up on your own?
user1804599
08:20
Google has an office in the Netherlands. :v
Don't care about such stuff?
No interest/ideas.
user1804599
Work with me on SAFTCOF.
@ElimGarak I might freelance. But I'd need an agent to help with acquisition for any kind of durable business
@elyse Erm. Not sure I can keep up with you :)
user1804599
08:20
Help people with Boost problems.
@sehe your plink links are getting more and more elaborate
Ifff that were commercially viable.
Based on your profile though, I'm sure you'd get jobs like clicks fingers that.
@Mr.kbok thanks for noticing
user1804599
I need a solution to the problem of automating fridge content tracking.
08:21
Getting a job is easy. Liking it is difficult.
4
hah, the infinte struggle
^ quick, merge these for starboard
user1804599
It's kinda hard to tag every slice of cheese with an edible RFID chip.
@sehe what little I do no of freelancing, you should set your self up so that you work for you own company, and it is the company that is contracted... helps with tax and liability and what not.
i'm looking at jobs atm and find everything so depressing
08:22
Startups are most depressing. I just find them hilarious when they go begging for money for their stupid ass ideas.
@elyse Let you know when you find it. Still struggling with food expiring
@sehe wat
the media would make me believe that startups are "where it's at" though?
Speaking of startups, I need more Silicon Valley episodes.
@elyse I thought when I do groceries I could take note of everything I bought and the expiration date. But then when I finish something I would have to note so that I don't get alerts. phew
user1804599
08:24
@Mr.kbok Until I find it, I want my tool to learn your consumption patterns to guess when you're running out of food.
user1804599
I've never done advanced ML before.
i'm not sure what's worse - working for a larger dev house in which bob, the "senior" programmer in his 50s who coded vba couple of decades ago, is my boss or a startup where everyone is likely to be on top of their shit but you work 14 hours, is worse
@elyse I think it would be easier to make a true random number generator out of my consumption patterns
@AdamKewley That's pretty kewl, hey.
@MaiLongdong your company still hiring?
08:25
@AdamKewley Not all workplaces are caricatures you know
@AdamKewley If you're in mainstream media and you're a tech company, you're either already a multi billionaire or are doing it wrong. Because if the mainstream media understands what you're doing, it isn't worth doing.
very true
finding the right company is quite difficult i find
@ElimGarak Often they have non-negligable commercial impact (e.g. priming new markets. Even if the startup flops, a bigger company with a longer RTM cycle can then buy the customers)
especially because i'm a bizarre hybrid of two disciplines and don't fit neatly into either
@AdamKewley which ones? (don't say php)
08:27
ITT sehe starts to get interested in the financial markets
chemistry and software... lol
startups are basically lottery for employees, with the added premise that you can work for free because "passion"
i've been a hobby software dev since like, 13 yrs old and learnt linux, OS X, windows, etc and a bunch of languages just "because"
user1804599
I want to make a prefab oil refinery factory and I need a chemist.
went more serious during my chemistry PhD (still in spare time) and learnt all the unit testing, good source control discipline, etc. and now i work in a software company but i really miss doing a bit of science, so i'm looking for jobs in scientific companies/institutes that also want someone who does a little code
08:29
oh hey SK and NK have peaced it out once again
@elyse If you say so...
user1804599
eek you weren't supposed to read that
it's difficult though because computational chemists etc use a very specific set of packages which i'm not familiar with - i just have experience in programming, not a particularly library or software package
@Prismatic fine, I'll put the bug out bag away
08:30
Blame everyone for starring everything.
My background was and still is physics. Programming was just a hobby since I liked tech. But doing what I am interested in regarding physics requires a shitload of cash. And I started making money with programming rather early... And the hobby took over.
user1804599
Hey everyone (except Morwenn): fuck you.
I can still play theoretical physicist in my free time, though. At least I get to eat.
@chmod711telkitty duh. You must be new here
No regrets, though.
08:31
@sehe I will ask.
that's very cool @ElimGarak
But I think now the focus is more on the China office
The French National Centre for Scientific Research (French: Centre national de la recherche scientifique, CNRS) is the largest governmental research organisation in France and the largest fundamental science agency in Europe. It employs 32,000 permanent employees (researchers, engineers, and administrative staff) and 6,000 temporary workers. == Organization == Following a 2009 reform, the CNRS is divided into 10 institutes: Institute of Chemistry (INC) Institute of Ecology and Environment (INEE) Institute of Physics (INP) Institute of Nuclear and Particle Physics (IN2P3) Institute of Biological...
did you have to go into a pure programming job? or do you still do scientific-related code? @ElimGarak
Fuck French and everything French related
08:32
Ouais !
Bande de salauds !
@MaiLongdong mais pour quoi mon ami
Racaille!
@AdamKewley Well, my field is computer graphics which derives heavily from classical electrodynamics. But I am interested in FTL propulsion theory mostly.
T'was today's Luc Danton out-of-nowhere post, see you tomorrow for the next one.
08:33
ah i see
Fatter Than LRiO
I am mostly interested in money but that's just me maybe
In c++ have a any data type in which i can store number like this 1.34.523.12?
user1804599
@sehe become a tester.
user1804599
Testing is the future, and the future starts with you.
08:34
That's not a number
time to work
I'll become a stay-at-home dad then.
My kids needs testing too
Are you looking for a job sehe?
Are you interested in GPU, Netherlands-based?
@sehe Well, surely you've accumulated some financial stability, right? You could enjoy life a bit?
I find it just very frustrating to find 'the' job since my PhD is practical chemistry, no coding, and the coding is just my primary hobby that i've always done. It means i can't get into computational chemistry (no demonstrable experience in the packages), can't get high-end programming jobs (no formal academic training), so i'm being a bit funnelled towards just continuing to do academic practical research, as my profile is strongest there
08:35
@ElimGarak He can’t. He just mentioned the kids.
How many little ones?
@AdamKewley talk to your superiors
double a = 1.3.234.4325; This is wrong. How to correct it?\
5
@MuhammadRaza Seriously?
it's not a number
08:36
@MuhammadRaza What is that even supposed to be?
@TartanLlama Shhh....
@MuhammadRaza Add .f at the end to indicate it a float perhaps???
Xeo
Xeo
@AndyProwl That 5 looks wrong, it seems like sqrt(fac(9)) instead of the intended fac(sqrt(9))
@TartanLlama Looks like a malformed IP from a TV show.
i know double can only store number like 1.34.
08:36
@elyse Unless you're a Java programmer; in this case, the future starts with someone else.
@ElimGarak Yesh. That's the fallback
this is just example.
Or maybe try double a = "1.3.234.4325;"
user1804599
@Mr.kbok then the future starts with Scala.
@AdamKewley become walter white
08:37
@LucDanton Dark
should work
@MuhammadRaza std::string a = std::string("1.3.234.4325");
why the explicit MVP call?
Most Valuable Professional
@Xeo yeah
08:38
std::string version = "1.3.234.4325"
So actually every file version 1.232.2432.23 something like this is string not a number?
@MuhammadRaza yes
@Prismatic it crossed my mind, i'm so fricking bored of businessmen employers wanting me to rock up in a suit to some across-the-country location so they can offer me, say £25k for a scientific coding job when i've got a PhD and can code circles around their interview questions
Or four numbers but that's not very practical
how to compare two files according to version?
08:38
Neither is your mom
@MuhammadRaza You need an unbreakable space before the semicolon.
use a user-defined literal auto double = "1.3.234.4325"_d
@Mr.kbok this shows my inexperience with C++ that your code works
@MuhammadRaza You're missing dumbexpr before double. Common mistake.
@AdamKewley Have you tried looking into chemical engineering? I know petroleum engineering $$
08:40
does the type annotation of std::string for the lvalue make the string literal automatically pump into std::string's constructor
chemical engineering is a very different discipline
@AdamKewley inexperience in C++ often shows in unnecessary verbiage
Yeah, Cat Plus Plus is so experienced with C++, he doesn't even write code anymore.
__DLLEXPORT__ constexpr mutable inline static register void volatile const decltype(std::string) s = std::string(std::to_string("hello guis"s)).c_str(); // create the strang and dllexport it across the online mutable registers of the volatiles
@AdamKewley Its the assignment operator. cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/operator=
this language is so massive
lol
08:41
@AdamKewley There's no type annotations in C++. Unless explicitely stated, a constructor with one parameter allows an initialization in the form T x = e where e is of type U
Given a constructor T::T(U)
@Prismatic is not
yeah but if you did something like auto a = "my string"; the compiler isn't going to implicitly understand you're wanting to construct a std::string instance no?
depends on how little :)
The probability of me having <=5 y/o is ~0.135%. Assuming normal distribution
@Prismatic It's the conversion constructor
@MaiLongdong It's already belly-up
@Mr.kbok o
08:43
@AdamKewley Righto. You can use something like auto a = "my string"s; given the appropriate precautions (e.g. using namespace std::literals::string_literals;) though.
user1804599
lol Russia b& Wikipedia
@AdamKewley Sure, then a is of type const char[N] I think (ask auto experts not sure)
user1804599
and then being surprised the world laughs at them
In Soviet Wikipedia, Ru- oh.
@Mr.kbok array decay
08:44
@LucDanton using namespace std::string_literals; is enough :o
@MaiLongdong Russia edits you
@LucDanton ITT Luc lets people use his underwar
@LucDanton with auto?
yeah, i'd expect auto a = "x"; to default to a C type string (e.g. char[])
@Morwenn What's a namesauce?
:P
08:45
@ElimGarak Something that sounds tasty but isn't.
@Mr.kbok auto x = foo; follows the same rules as bar(foo) for an imaginary template<typename X> void bar(X x); if that’s any help.
@elyse who?
@LucDanton Thanks, it is :)
@LucDanton That is correct. (I suddenly felt like being patronizing)
@MaiLongdong It’s okay, we’re taking precautions.
user1804599
08:45
@Y.kened Russia.
@LucDanton using namespace std;
@MaiLongdong too std::literal
Guys, in today's political climate, are we sure it is wise to mock the code of a man called Muhammad Raza?
Hi there
08:46
How is it
It is goods.
I vote for the minimum Waage
@Prismatic Any class that has a non explicit single-parameter constructor (std::string is an example, std::vector is not) is implicitely convertible from the type of the parameter. It means that any assignment to a string, or any function/method accepting a string, can be passed a const char* instead
@Mr.kbok <insert pun about the parameter marital status here>
08:48
<your mom has a marital status the size of two small countries/> (am I doing it right?)
@Prismatic In the case of an initialization, it's just the syntax of the initialization that uses =, but no operator= is involved at the location of a declaration, as a rule of thumb
sizeof(yourmom_t) // will it overflow?
@ElimGarak humm?
@MaiLongdong useless use of parentheses
@Mr.kbok They’re both (non-direct) list-initializable lol.
08:49
I know
You should feel bad
But it's very unusual to see sizeof as keyword I must say. I got used to it.
I think Luc also uses it keyword style
@Mr.kbok Is there a purpose for constructing things like that
@Prismatic In particular an initialization in the form T t = T() is a default constructor call, and does not involve either assigmnent nor copy, as per the 03 standard. 11 generalized it with moves but I don't know the exact rules
Luc is life, Luc is love
08:49
sizeof mai_longdong
see. it has merit
@LucDanton mmmh. Unfortunately I often talk in C++03 terms.
Nicely worded for "I suck"
Partisan du moindre effort, si y’a pas besoin de parenthèses je mets pas.
Why not restrict creating things to using constructors
08:50
@LucDanton Good. France will win the CO2 emissions race
user1804599
@MuhammadRaza AppleScript, lol.
user1804599
And COBOL.
@Prismatic The = notation looks natural (std::string a = "hello"; looks good). The MVP notation exists no disambiguate with a function declaration (T t(); looks like a function declaration, T t = T() doesn't)
@MuhammadRaza 'tis gud.
user1804599
They're awful and have existed for ages.
08:52
@MuhammadRaza do an effort we don't gonna answer to your homeworks !
I wish the standard allowed auto a = A(); as a shorthand for A a;
it doesn't?
@Y.kened I am not doing homework. Just sit front of computer and try to do programming. Think and do just this.
@Mr.kbok The second totally does though. T t = FunctionThatReturnsT();
08:53
A still must be copyable/movable even though any copies/moves may be elided
@Prismatic It looks like a call, not a declaration.
user1804599
Fuck C++.
Also value init vs default init.
user1804599
also lol at non-movable things
I'd make sure that's a verified account
08:54
@LucDanton this
@sehe (^o^)/
I mean, anyone can call himself "douche"
It's a french name
who's this?
No worries. I know languages
@Y.kened Sébastien
08:55
real talk lounge, do you use empty () when using the new operator on objects with constructors that have no params
user1804599
@Mr.kbok You don't use move semantics?
Thing thing = new Thing();
user1804599
@sehe he must be very hygienic.
@sehe
08:56
@Prismatic yes because otherwise people get confused as fuck
Xeo
Xeo
@Prismatic I don't use the new operator.
I have an hard enough time explaining that not all classes need virtual destructors
@ElimGarak I learned them, but we still use a C++03 compiler ATM. So I tend to forget
@Xeo you don't ever have private or protected constructors?
lol, @sehe are you Sébastien Douche?
user1804599
How are private and protected constructors related to the new operator?
08:58
@Prismatic Doesn’t make a difference.
What baffled me the most recently was that A() = default; and A(); A::A() = default; were semantically different.
@LucDanton How do you avoid using new if you have private or protected constructors?
@elyse You have to use a factory method, hence can't use local allocation, hence new
A::A() = default; is a thing? what the hell
new usually only arises in very low-level stuff. And only as it is packaged into a more sexy construct and hidden from the user of whatever library you're writing.
08:59
@Morwenn How so?
user1804599
@Mr.kbok what
user1804599
factories can return by non-pointer value
Xeo
Xeo
@Prismatic Defaulted-on-declaration and defaulted-on-definition. It's complicated.
@Mr.kbok ODR
08:59
@Mr.kbok The second one is user-provided, not the first one.

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