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2:00 PM
@jalf: You missed the point. Look at the other screenshot. Also, not that I reduced the screen capacity so the sshot was less bulky, I grouped my tabs (32+ now) and the preview bar is dismissed/summoned with a doubleclick
 
> I will stop discussing this with you right here
> In fact, I said I'd stop discussing with you the moment I felt I started to get angry
doesn't that imply that you started to get angry?
Aaaanyway
 
you two sound like a married couple
 
sbi
@jalf Yes, I said so. So? I stopped discussing it with you (singular) for exactly that reason.
 
I don't think I have much to contribute here. I've said why I think the feeds offer negative value (but a smaller negative when they're low-volume and high quality).
 
@jalf Maybe if you gave it a rest. For about 5 minutes. You'll see what it really comes to. No more fringe fighting. Both of you :)
 
2:01 PM
:P
by the way
who the hell starred every single message of jalfs?
 
moving on from the thrown bottles, I think we can at least agree that the current feeds are not really that annoying due to the low volume of traffic. Weather or not they are actually worth keeping is another matter.
 
What you all do with the feeds is your business. I never really bothered messing with them before, and I don't intend to start now
 
sbi
@DeadMG @thecoshman.
 
huh
 
oh, and that the ticker thing is infuriating, regardless of volume. That's the important part
 
2:02 PM
well, unless the other current owners object, I think I'm going to clean up a few of those stars
 
@DeadMG they where all very good points
 
there's no need for seven copies of the same statement to be starred, effectively
 
@thecoshman yeah and very helpful - not - to have them nicely duplicated in the identical row on the right :)
 
@DeadMG if you don't mind, I'd rather unstar them my self
 
go ahead
 
sbi
2:03 PM
@thecoshman I don't think you can anymore.
 
@sbi seems your right
 
Oh, and I see no reason to believe that automated posts are going to spark noticeably more discussion, compared to people discovering interesting posts themselves, and posting them here
I feel like the spanish inquisition in Monty Python now
for being unable to enumerate the points I tried to make
 
nooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
2
 
¬_¬ not sure that was needed but oh well
 
sbi
@jalf Sigh. You have made exactly this point numerous times in the last hour or so. And overheard any counter arguments.
@thecoshman That referring to what?
 
2:06 PM
@sbi I'm not aware of having overheard any counter arguments
and yes, I have made that point before, because, as I said, I was trying to summarize my position before leaving the discussion
It'd be a strange summary if it introduced a completely new argument
 
@sbi the removal of my staring; feels kind of like censoring my right to indicated when I think some made a good post
 
sbi
@jalf Sorry, that got lost in translation. I meant overlooked.
 
@thecoshman I'm the one who did it, so if you have a complaint, feel free to discuss it with me
 
@sbi yeah, I figured. But I don't think I've overlooked any arguments either. I know you've said that you believe the automated feed posts are going to spark much more discussion, but do we have any evidence to support this either way? It's hard to discuss opinion
 
sbi
@jalf It's the point of overlooking something that you are not aware of its existence, isn't it?
 
2:09 PM
Well, there was certainly one big argument that was hard to overlook :_) ROTFL
 
@sbi quite likely. So what did I overlook?
 
@DeadMG well, seeming as said I was going to de-star, I would have appreciate it would ask me which ones to remove. Fair enough I might have got a bit over zealous. I would prefer to have that first one of the four back as well, if you would be so kind.
 
Ok, nothing interesting to discuss other than splitting hairs?
 
@thecoshman I actually have no idea how to un-de-star something, if such functionality even exists.
 
I'm sure we're overlooking - shute another can't-mention word for the following day - the real fun. Tvtropes, anyone?
 
2:10 PM
however the purpose behind de-starring them was that they were all the same message, effectively
 
sbi
@thecoshman He cannot undo the unstarring. But if you point it out, I can star it for you.
 
Is it just me, or dose this basically boil down to a matter of opinion as to weather or not the RSS feed actually sparks worth while discussion
 
Let's let the stars manage their own reputation. They seem to enjoy doing that anyway reputationmanagementfirm.com/celebrity.html
 
@DeadMG @sbi don't worry about it.
Try this: feeds = bad - 60m ago by DeadMG ▼
I think inlined messages might be less annoying - 1h ago by thecoshman
erm...
 
@thecoshman: not really. It comes down to egos getting hurt and some people accidentally getting caught up in arguments on the side. It is human, but it had very little to with <strike>overlooking</strike> <strike>feeds</strike>
 
2:12 PM
rounding errers?
 
sbi
@sehe ---strike---
 
---strike---
rofl
 
sbi
@DeadMG :b
 
@sbi: cool thank you. Always wondered about that.
 
Markdown lag fail
 
2:14 PM
really? three dashes to start and stop strike?
 
got-to-go fetch the kids from school
 
@sehe I don't follow...
 
@thecoshman Of course! "Three strikes and you're out"
 
Any bored CLI/C++ gurus in here?
 
---strike--- strike isn't much different to **bold** bold or *italic* italic
 
2:14 PM
@sehe man up! this is C++, one strike and your out!
 
@Derrick only hiding.
 
cpx
edited
 
I'd hide too
 
this is C++, striking is Undefined Behaviour
 
@thecoshman I'm a scholar scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22Thre
 
2:15 PM
@DeadMG I also don't get why italic doesn't use '/' rather the '*'
 
why would it use /?
I find * to be more natural
/ isn't in my comfortable typing area
 
@DeadMG as that mimics what you want to do the text
 
@Derrick just ask away. Perhaps someone will spot it before it scrolls off the top of the screen :)
 
@DeadMG fair point
 
and I hit * way more often in code than /
 
2:17 PM
:) Thanks. I've never been into the chat, and don't want to make a jacass of myself, because there's already a question out there. I think the answer is prolly just that you simply can't do it.
 
@DeadMG maybe your just more aware of typing * and / is actually more comfortable
 
@Derrick just ask...
 
sbi
@DeadMG Because _underlined_, *bold*, and /italic/ are traditionally used in ASCII to denote, well, underlined, bold, and italic?
 
@Derrick if it makes you feel any better, @randomUser is a jackass any way
 
I have a native struct, and and I cannot manipulate it in C# without redeclaring it somewhere else
I've been scouring the web for three days trying to understand why I'd need to declare the same object twice
It feels dirty to me
 
2:18 PM
@Derrick no, you really need no redeclare it
 
sbi
@Derrick There's the newbie hints, linked from the right, and suggested reading for first-time users here.
 
@thecoshman No, / is way less comfortable
 
So I found a two year old question about it that no one answred, and bountied it
 
I have my main middle finger to type * on the right hand
but I have to pull back the hand to push /
and I can't see the fingers so mishits are common
 
@sbi yeah, thanks, I should read the faq before coming in asking off the wall questions
 
2:20 PM
@DeadMG pinky?
 
nah
 
@DeadMG I'm amazed you can type as well as you do with your paws
 
pinky is over on the enter button
 
huh; it seems I hold my right hand at a bit of a funny angle to the keyboard, dam touch pad!
I really need to buy myself a decent keyboard and mouse for work
@sehe I don't get your reference...
 
I have nasal demons being erected from my application, I have UB and it's going crazy
 
2:24 PM
has any one set up a G+ page for our lovely little group?
 
my program is doing loops where there is none, adding number when there shouldn't be
very very strange
 
wow, I think you track for this years bug of the year award
 
I have never seen this kind of behaviour before
 
pics or it didn't happen
 
@Derrick TITS OR GTFO - FTFY
 
cpx
2:28 PM
why can't i use my own constructor in a union whose members are of class type?
I thought the restriction was only with virtual functions..
 
dam... it's been too long. I can't remember much about unions other then they let you do some funky shit
 
@cpx AFAIK it's nontrivial only, although I think C++11 changed it
 
that's where you can make say an int ~= to a char[4]
 
cpx
oh i see, it overwrites overlapped memory :/
@Pubby i see
 
I have a question
for the well-known Internets phrase "Tits or GTFO", don't you think it would be better expressed as "Tits and then GTFO"?
 
2:36 PM
Depends on the tits
 
@DeadMG no... cose if there TITs I probably want them to stay
 
I appreciate your incredibly poor spelling of "because"
 
@DeadMG it's a poorly spelt abbreviation "'cause"
 
right
 
I think I got away with that <shifty eyes>
dam mark down is fussy
 
2:41 PM
fuck, I'm a moron
 
sorry, you lost me there
which must make me an even bigger moron I guess
 
I was talking to myself
 
@DeadMG correction, you where talking to every one in the room
 
I merely wrote it in the chat to allow other users to star it, since they seem to like doing that
 
I think on principle, that post should be left unstarred
wait, did some one just, listen to me? I feel so special :D
¦;¬\
Is it just me, or is slightly annoying the way box to enter text doesn't line up with the list of every one else messages?
 
2:52 PM
@thecoshman because you should think of it as emphasis, rather than italic
The fact that it is rendered as italic is an implementation detail and can be overridden by a custom stylesheet
but semantically, it indicates emphasis
 
@jalf huh. I suppose
 
Anyone know what this error means? "error: ‘int’ is not a class, struct, or union type
"
 
so what is bold supposed to mean, semantically
 
@Pubby it means that int isn't a class, struct or union type
 
@Pubby that you are trying to use int as one of those three things?
 
2:54 PM
@thecoshman bold, of course. :)
what do you mean?
 
I don't have a single int in my code though
 
**foo** is meant to indicate lots of emphasis
and is implemented with bold
 
EXTREEEEEEME emphasis
oooh... it's smarter then I give it credit for :P
 
for the same reason, <b> and <i> are deprecated in HTML5 (maybe in 4.x as well, can't remember), but you still have <em>
 
*too much emphasis*
@jalf Symantec web ¬_¬ you have a lot to answer for
 
2:59 PM
I'll give a cookie to anyone who can figure this out: pastebin.com/Zc7JqFvd
 
btw, if anyone is still interested in the feeds thing, here's my best attempt at a logical and non-violent argument: pastebin.com/sgSyL2ab
 
buttasstonload
what a word :D
 
sbi
Been using FF4b12 for two days now and I already fell in love with resizing text edit fields. Fuck yourself, crappy web designers!
@Pubby My browser blocks cookies.
 
@Pubby are you allowed to pass a raw char as a template argument?
 
13
A: What's the recommended way of iterating a container in C++11?

spraffThe better way is begin(container) end(container) because it's more extensible. For example, template argument deduction can be used to determine the size of a static array and hence begin(my_static_array) and end(my_static_array) will work. More generally, you can add overloads/specialisatio...

Any comments on my comment?
 
3:05 PM
@TonyTheLion Yes, although the 'a' is just for testing. I'm trying to convert a char array to a template list.
 
@jalf I fully agree with that
 
@Pubby I think then this is probably the issue Int<n::value+1>
not sure if it can evaluate the +1 at compile time?
 
@Abyx from pages ago, It looks like your right. I'm shockingly disapointed. Thanks.
 
@TonyTheLion It can, unless I'm missing something.
 
I hate Visual Studio. If you define only a prefix increment, you can still use postfix increment, which will then silently (well, with a warning) call the prefix version. How stupid is that? I want sane C++ compilers to reject non-conforming code!
 
3:08 PM
changing it to this compiles successfully: using type = typename sc<t, float, Int<n::value+1> >::type;
 
@sbi yup, chrome has had it for ages. so fecking handy!
 
sbi
@thecoshman So what are you complaining about?
 
@sbi I can't move the box over so that it starts lined up. nor does it save my changes
 
@FredOverflow So... with using std::begin, begin can come from either std::begin, or from a custom, free begin() function in the same namespace as the argument?
When would the latter ever make sense? Legacy code?
 
@Pubby should your struct Char not have static const auto type instead of value ?
because the cons is evaluated by ::type and not ::value
 
sbi
3:12 PM
@thecoshman Ah, I see, you want to adapt the left-side border! Mine does have a history, BTW. I just pressed Ctrl+Z for twenty seconds and it took me back all the way to one of my first messages here today.
@KerrekSB When you have a container-like class template that you want to provide overloads of begin() and end() for, which you aren't allowed to because they are in the std namespace?
 
@Pubby can you put your code into ideone, so that it shows that error
 
@sbi Oh, right, I forgot that you can't specialise begin/end.
 
@TonyTheLion Hey, it seems to have been the cons! The type was a mistake from copy/pasting old code. using cons = list<c, xs...>; Here's a cookie: ( )
 
@sbi So you mean that the class itself is like a container but has no begin/end?
 
sbi
@KerrekSB You can, but you can't overload them.
 
3:15 PM
@Pubby oh cool :) Glad it is solved :)
 
@sbi Hm. Are they actually templates?
 
sbi
@KerrekSB You know, the STL only came into this language 15 years ago. Some of us have a history from before that, and many companies have code from then. (And what about all the proprietary libs out there? Don't MFC and Qt come with their own — STL-incompatible, of course — containers?)
 
@sbi Hm, then why can't I say template <> begin<MyContainer>(MyContainer&);?
 
sbi
@KerrekSB Oh. I presumed that, but, really, I dunno.
 
@sbi I think Qt works As Expected
At least I can prettyprint Qtainers out of the box
 
sbi
3:18 PM
@KerrekSB I fixed my message as an afterthought: "When you have a container-like class template..." MyContainer<T> would require an overload.
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah, thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.
 
sbi
@KerrekSB Ok, so it's not them. I'd doubt, however, that MFC (or wxWidgets) come with STL-compatible containers.
 
@KerrekSB Yes, they are. What else would they be? See 24.6.5 "range access" [iterator.range]
 
@FredOverflow Hm, indeed :-S
@sbi Ah, yes. So I also fix my original statement: Because you cannot specialize partially.
@FredOverflow Thanks!
This new C++11 <iterator> stuff is really quite neat.
Finally we have prev and next, which were sorely missing.
 
what was missing?
@sbi I know for a fact that MFC's CArray uses memcpy to copy the elements.
 
3:21 PM
@DeadMG Something like std::next
 
but what does std::next actually do?
 
sbi
@DeadMG The opposite of std::prev, I presume.
 
rofl
 
@DeadMG It returns a new iterator that's one further. Like auto it2(it1); ++it2; return it2;
Or rather advance(it2, 1), of course.
It was previously not possible to get an iterator that's the increment of another iterator in one single command.
 
Okay, I have D set up on my system:
import std.stdio;
void main()
{
    writeln("I can write void main without being attacked by language lawyers!");
}
Now it's time to play :)
 
3:23 PM
And I think the number of steps is also parametric.
 
@KerrekSB We have? How awesome is that?
 
@FredOverflow To play in the garbage? Kids these days.
@FredOverflow On a scale from 1 to awesome, I'd say... awesome.
 
@KerrekSB It's okay to play in the garbage, D has garbage collection!
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow Will it collect you too if you're in the garbage?
 
@FredOverflow Sometimes they collect the kids, too, providing great relief to mom and dad's holiday budget.
 
3:25 PM
@Xeo Don't worry. As long as at least 1 person knows me, I'm safe from the Garbage Collector.
 
Xeo
Huh? Did somebody ping me just now?
I could swear I heard that sound..
 
30 secs ago, by FredOverflow
@Xeo Don't worry. As long as at least 1 person knows me, I'm safe from the Garbage Collector.
 
Imagine that were true in real life: You have collection vans driving around, and every time they come past you, you have to give them one letter of reference of a person who knows you, or you'll be collected.
 
Generally, objects don't know who knows about them. So they could tell you anything.
 
Xeo
We are nothing but resources anyways, if only to the machine that destructs our planet.
 
3:26 PM
also, "letter of reference"? lol
 
@FredOverflow Hm. Yes. So, you could just tell the vanmen that you have 5000 friends on Facebook, and the town would suffocate in overpopulation.
@FredOverflow "Letter of Pointer" sounded odd.
Letter of Appointment
"Thou shalt exist."
Does anyone know libpulse (Pulse Audio)?
For audio on Linux?
 
@thecoshman Cringe? Are you trying to sneak in an advert or are you really not aware of the difference between semantic web and Symantec Corp.? Either way, that message could harm your reputation as a semi-smart troll on the interwebs :)
@KerrekSB I know of it. And tried using it (I remember it was possible). But I went with libjack after the initial reconaissance
 
Is there any way to do something different in the object's constructor when constructing a const object than when you are constructing a non-const object
 
@FredOverflow You found a good use-case for newfangled language D
@TonyTheLion Boost Mpl has complete coverage for compile-time strings (up to compiler limits) IIRC, complete with simple algos. Most of the fun in that goes away with user-defined string literals from C++11 IMO (but it appears to have ephemeral support ony in gcc 4.7 trunk nowadays)
 
3:42 PM
0
Q: How much information do array variables share?

FredOverflowHow much information is copied/shared when I assign one array variable to another array variable? int[] a = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]; int[] b = a; a[0] = 42; writefln("%s %s", a[0], b[0]); // 42 42 Apparently, a and b share the same payload, because 42 is printed twice. a ~= 10; write...

My first real D question :)
 
@FredOverflow Tell me if D is any good
 
@SethCarnegie I wouldn't know, have only just started yet.
 
I got Alexandrescu's "The D Programming Language" but haven't had the time yet
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow lol, I wanted to ask if that was a joke question because I thought of C++ and wanted to tell you off that b is just a pointer into a. :(
 
If Linus hates C++, what would he think of D
I think it would make him ragequit
 
3:46 PM
@SethCarnegie Do you also have the "limited edition" of the book where Alexandrescu's name is missing on the cover? :)
@SethCarnegie I would believe that in comparison to C++, Linus would hate D just a little less.
 
Xeo
Wow, ~= for appending? That looks rather.. interesting.
 
@FredOverflow Why?
@FredOverflow and yes actually, Alex's name is not on the front cover of my book
 
@SethCarnegie Because D has, as far as I can tell, a lot less pitfalls than C++.
But then again, who cares what a C++ hater thinks?
3
@SethCarnegie Congratulations, that edition might be worth a fortune in 10, 20 years.
 
not if I have anything to say about it
 
sbi
@FredOverflow In 10 years nobody will even know what D was, and Alexandrescu might be all but forgotten.
Oh goodness. I discovered reddit. Save. me.
 
3:55 PM
@sbi lost soul
@sehe I aware of the difference, I just didn't think chrome would auto correct that way. I suppose my poor spelling did not help
@sbi that sounds freaky. I wonder if chrome has a similar feature
@Xeo I think I'm going to through up
 
@sbi +1 on the former (D), 0.032% chance on the second. I think that Alexandrescu is often under-credited for starting the template meta-programming revolution. He is right in there between D. Vandervoorde and Scott Meyers, in my view. I'd certainly say that without that particular revolution, C++11 would not exist.
@thecoshman You certainly need to learn a lot more about your spell checker
 
sbi
@thecoshman Trow what are you going to through up? SCNR
 

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