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17:00
apt works well
lounge should make its own distro
Lounge<Linux>
like there are not enough of them
speaking of linux
that is js code :/
user1804599
I should implement FALSE.
17:00
Jan 2 at 18:04, by Cat Plus Plus
> In our experiments, we discovered a real user trace where an install attempt for OCaml using apt-get caused 61 packages to be removed, including the Linux kernel.
-1
Q: STL container equivalent of Delphi set?

AlainDIs there an STL container with functionality similar to the Delphi "set", the code below taken from DelphiBasics: type TDigits = set of '1'..'9'; // Set of numeric digit characters var digits : TDigits; // Set variable myChar : char; begin digits := ['2', '4'...

user1804599
With an extension for concurrency.
@CatPlusPlus lol
Apt has terrible depsolver
@rlemon We'll simplify all your choices - make your choice out of 8.
17:01
@CatPlusPlus I once zipped myself up in my jeans. I don't discredit jeans.
apt is the best I've used
It's a package manager and it fails at the basic thing package manager should do
@CatPlusPlus Isn't this more of a repository issue?
I.e. dependency resolution
@khajvah No
OCaml doesn't list Linux kernel as a conflict
@CatPlusPlus Given that all of them fail pretty hard at dependency resolution I don't think its an easily solvable problem
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, it shouldn't. :D
17:03
@Prismatic It's a solved problem
@CatPlusPlus I haven't used a package manager that hasn't been utterly and completely broken through routine behavior
Zypper has a decent depsolver
But RPM is a crappy toolset
Not that dpkg is any better
pacman is the best
@CatPlusPlus which one doesnt suck then?
@CatPlusPlus I think it's a problem with people using the tool and packaging stuff in a terrible, terrible way rather than a problem with the tool itself.
17:04
No
@Griwes PEBKAC
It's a mess of arcane, barely documented, barely working together hacks
Although granted, things like Nix might provide a solution guarding against utter stupidity of package maintainers.
@Columbo He often tries to help users with non-promising questions here in chat, where there's no rep and there's actually strong pressure against it.
It's not a problem with maintainers, the entire toolset is terrible
I did packaging with both dpkg and RPM
17:05
Sure, one can accuse him of having a different view about which questions should be answered, but so what?
It's the "simple things are hard, and gods help you if you want to do hard things" category of software
packaging should be really easy
I want a package manager that can take snapshots of packages wrt versioning and restore a system if it breaks during an update
@R.MartinhoFernandes So what's the conclusion, he genuinely wants to help?
Nix can do that I think
17:07
Yeah, Nix looks pretty decent in that aspect.
And since most distros won't host multiple outdated packages, it should reference git commits and auto-build working versions wrt the snapshot
Nix in German literally means nothing
But then it's arcane in its own way
What is nix
17:07
That's slang!
@Prismatic "nothing"
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know.
@Columbo I like Hanlon's razor.
@R.MartinhoFernandes He's fucking stupid?
@Griwes never heard of nix os
Is it gud
17:08
I guess that's what I was tryi--wait, no.
so nix comes only with one os?
@Prismatic No idea, I've fired it up literally once in a VM.
@khajvah Please do read the website.
@R.MartinhoFernandes But you can explain his actions with pure stupidity, can't you
who's "he"?
17:09
Well, I guess I run a much stronger variant of Hanlon's razor.
I'd build my own distro if I had the time
@R.MartinhoFernandes He is an imbicilic moron?
But then again I don't care about desktops
@Griwes oh I see
I focus more on the "not-malice" aspect than the "stupidity" aspect.
17:09
@CatPlusPlus then build one for a laptop ;) :D
:hides:
@R.MartinhoFernandes First of all, there's nothing malicious involved here, is there?
@Columbo Jerry seems to think so.
What's a good name for a reference to a parent stack?
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Knowing you, shouldn't you stay clear of any kind of razor, especially strong ones?
> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
17:10
@Rapptz ok just finished the chapter, I was skeptical at first but now it got interesting
So I attribute it to LRiO being stupid rather than a twat
Which is hard to tell, really
Why not both
@CatPlusPlus We can't go so hard on him either. Remember that one time when he was nice?
Also I hate Apt because I can't get rid of Perl
17:11
@Cinch Next edit should be all uppercase
@Columbo No
@CatPlusPlus Me neither
Ban for linking to jeffatwooddotcom
> Atwood's Law: any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript.
why ban? you guys don't like jeff atwood?
17:12
Which function will be called is resolved at compiletime. The compiler can optimize away unused cases from your switch. — πάντα ῥεῖ 53 mins ago
0
A: Can I do this with a template class in c++

Lightning Racis in ObritWhich function will be called is resolved at compile-time, because any half-decent modern compiler can optimize away unused cases from your switch.

inb4 snackoverflow
Yoooouuuuu guuuuuiiiissseeeeee
Isn't he like, your god or something
17:12
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's one hell of a complicated plan. Why not just give good answers and be nice?
@BoltClock Hey mod
what's a good name for a parent stack?
@Prismatic he's full of it
or owner stack?
@Cinch wat
17:13
@BoltClock Sup? Someone flagged that?
:22885299 is.. is this a thing? what a wasted oppertunity
@ScarletAmaranth You've misspelled 'shit'
@BoltClock Say I have a linked list of registers
> Singapore's top user on Stack Overflow by reputation!
what would be a good name for a reference to the last register?
17:13
@R.MartinhoFernandes Apparently
@CatPlusPlus alright alright; Atwood is full of shit
@rlemon Just a Lounge meme or something (chat.stackoverflow.com/…). Mostly Cat's
@Cinch uhhhhhhh last_register
@BoltClock needs to be short
17:14
Another crappy thing about Apt is trying to get it to not install irrelevant shit
seriously... wasted opportunity
edge/frame/before/last
@rlemon lol
@Cinch that is short
user1804599
17:14
@Jefffrey ?
@CatPlusPlus does it have optional deps?
last? tail?
@rightfold What's that? (Yes, I'm stalking)
@CatPlusPlus How can it install irrelevant shit?
@Griwes like it needs to be repeatable
user1804599
17:15
@Jefffrey I'm writing an optimising compiler for FALSE.
@Griwes that's what she said
i.e. climb->climb->climb->climb
@khajvah I asked it to install python and got cowsay
@Cinch what
hmm...
17:15
It has 'recommended' and 'suggested' deps, but I had at least one case where it wouldn't honour "don't install recommended/suggested shit you idiot" setting at all
@Cinch Ugh what did you invent this time
trace?
moar derp
@Griwes register-based programming language
you knew!
Ugh.
stahp
17:16
we're doing "lua with classes" in uni :v
maybe just ltrace(1)?
@khajvah I had some PHP thing to install, and it had Apache in recommended while I was already using nginx
@melak47 Also known as Lua!
@BoltClock I think it is a bit of a low-quality answer (personally, I would say a bit more), but I don't have strong feelings one way or another.
Spent like an hour trying to get apt (get it) to work properly
17:16
rtrace(1)
@CatPlusPlus Yeah but it doesn't install apache does it?
It's shit
k go tit
@khajvah By default yes it does
oh, I see.
that is stupid
17:17
Debian dependencies are sometimes retarded on their own too
Hm...
Things built with X support by default where it's not necessary for anything
If C passes arguments in the stack...
@CatPlusPlus Tis where portage shines.
lesson learned: sys admin job is boring
17:18
It's many things
Actual sysadminning is hardly "boring"
@khajvah Oh yeah?
You'll have enough shit to worry about that "boring" doesn't enter the picture
I am using suse (zypper) on a server, it works just fine
I tried SuSE but nobody builds packages for it
although many stuff(like nginx) wasn't in the repo
17:19
@LucDanton is this a particularly stupid way of going about it? :S
xkcd really isn't that funny anymore
I don't know if its ever really been that funny
It's sometimes hit and most of the time extremely miss
I should have chosen red hat while choosing the instance os but it's too late
CentOS has older packages than Debian stable somehow
And RHEL needs a license afair
Oooh!
17:22
@CatPlusPlus dunno, it was marked as free (I think?)
I can create a frame and then set a process to operate on it
@R.MartinhoFernandes @JerryCoffin I fix'd it ur welcom
@melak47 Looks fine.
For servers I'm going in the direction of CoreOS
But I need better tooling for managing container images
OMG my main process is gonna be the mainframe
17:23
@LucDanton yay
This "let's just have a copy of the OS in there" workflow is an extreme pain wrt upgrades
:googles coreos:
@melak47 Looks quite Python-like don’t you think?
Ugh I'm setting up shit on the client's private vCloud instance now
They don't allow uploading media
And the only Debian ISO is LiveCD that installs laptop shit :cripes:
17:24
Good choice people, we really need CUPS and Bluetooth support here
@LucDanton I suppose
> Imagine an alcoholic sitting with a barrel of wine in front of him. Suppose he starts saying to himself, “Wine isn’t bad for you if used in moderation. Why, they say small amounts of wine are even good for you! It won’t do me any harm if I take just one little drink.... “ Well you know what is going to happen. Never forget that the human race with technology is just like an alcoholic with a barrel of wine.
@R.MartinhoFernandes What? I do not get it?
Really I'm somewhat amazed anyone manages to work on Debian
I lost patience after few packages
@wilx An alcoholic can't just take a sip.
17:27
@cat, what do you use(on personal computers)?
@wilx too much technology -> bad. just robot resenting his creators :p
@melak47 Ah. Oh. OK...
@melak47 Er, I don't take that implication.
Only that you can't stop it once you taste it.
17:29
That's almost out-of-context-starrable
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh. That I get. OK.
Though when you add the source to the citation, it changes. It was said (written?) by the Unabomber, well-known technophobe.
I really like that GRUB depends on FreeType
@CatPlusPlus wtf
It’s all about the kernels.
Xeo
Xeo
17:33
I see we had a wild smurf case again, here.
maybe its for a grub ui front end or osmething
user1804599
Today is a wonderful day.
@Prismatic For fancy showing.
Xeo
Xeo
hm. to buy milk and make pancakes, or not to.
Yes, because ~~~pwetty~~~ splashes are what servers really need
17:33
hey guys
I got into an awkward situation recently
and my bank was actually helpful.
should I call the press or are they just going to be intuitively attracted to a story of such rarity?
@Puppy was there money in it for them?
well, my continued business
Xeo
Xeo
Dunno, my bank has always been helpful, so far.
There is probably a local competitor with a better deal?
Wait until they owe you something
17:35
I have 400 euros stuck in a bank in bulgaria but I don't think I am gonna go back there soon
I also like that everything has Kerberos support compiled in
I really need that
Yeah, cat, you really need to make your own distro.
did you mean: bistro ?
yeah and sell dog steaks
Also lol Debian-provided default SELinux policy breaks apt
(Also they forgot to include it in wheezy for whatever reason)
> gnupg depends on libusb-0.1.4
17:41
lolwut
Is that for smart cards or something?
Dunno, maybe, though there's a separate library for accessing smartcards
Anyway, portage <3
USE is the best thing ever.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Those dependencies are not apt's fault.
No, those instances are all Debian maintainers
How does apt deal with stuff not having everything built in?
17:44
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are you using gentoo?
Say, I want gnupg without smart card shit, and another system wants it with smart card shit.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage_%28software%29 ... Wow, also used by Chrome OS.
Apt has Provides and alternative dependencies
And Conflicts
So it could work
Assuming depsolver doesn't shit itself
@Puppy So what's the story?
@CatPlusPlus Does it build the stuff, or does the server hold 2^N builds where N is the number of options?
Or something smarter?
17:46
Apt doesn't build anything
You need to have those packages
I should look more at FreeBSD maybe
i like yum's whatprovides command
whatgives
apt-file does that for dpkg
@CatPlusPlus Ow.
Fresh system from that fucking LiveCD:
17:49
Do you guys think differentiaing between pure functions and "regular" functions might be helpful?
@Cinch what is pure function?
@Cinch Yes.
@khajvah No side effects or something like that
@Cinch Differentiating how?
17:50
I have part of the Frame class set up already
user1804599
@Cinch no.
@Cinch Maybe
why would you differentiate ?
@khajvah So that I can distribute the functions that don't require state
If they're self-contained, it doesn't matter in what order I do them
#ifndef FRAME_H
#define FRAME_H
lol
17:53
I'm thinking:
Cannot increase static size of the frame
No dynamic allocation, can only inherit a frame
Self-contained, must reference heap
Cannot have "bubble" errors that float up to the top
What do you say if you do something nice and you want to preempt "thanks" without sounding like an ass? "You're welcome" sounds snarky.
lol no #endif
Xeo
Xeo
my cat lets her greetings be known
I'm unsure what type of functionality to include but okay
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well don't
17:54
But this seems like a decent framework for a frame
Why typedef
@Jefffrey idk
It's a really rough draft and I haven't done any research yet really
I'm shocked
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes "It's fine"?
We know
17:56
Honestly I don't expect you to ever do any kind of research, so that last part is not necessary.
Hmmm I failed to consider whether the pub would be busy
Perhaps it can also be a coroutine?
@R.MartinhoFernandes What if they were never going to thank you in the first place? How can you know how grateful they feel? I’ll go with Cat here.
Ah apparently its not that busy, passed my Perception check this round
Xeo
Xeo
hf
17:57
@LucDanton Oh, this is a really really nice thing. If they weren't grateful they'd be complete sociopaths and I wouldn't have done it in that case.
And found an empty table right away
@Puppy Did you go to a pub with your laptop?
@Puppy sbi is that gorilla-shaped guy.
@Puppy There's 3 ninjas behind you
O rly?
17:58
Oh, got it.
Also you may need more specificity
Smile is what I'd do face-to-face, so I'll just put a smiley.
@Puppy roll Willpower to start working on your laptop
> With a new, streamlined process for listing and selling your creations, the Steam Workshop now supports buying mods directly from the Workshop, to be immediately usable in game.
ayy, paid mods ahoy

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