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16:00
and fancy optimizations are completely irrelevant in the context of helpful/confusing error messages
@BartoszKP That hasn't really made a impact significantly different between the two.
````
process counting_series(start: int, length: int) {
    enum_decl(
        mem_block result;
        address result_pos;
    );

    result pos =

    if (length < 0)
        exception("Cannot have series length < 0.");
    else
        for (i = 0; i < length; ++i) {
            write(result.addr, i);
        }

    return tuple(length, result);
}
````
Aw what.
Wall. Of. Code
How do I?
16:01
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wasn't arguing that I'm right (really don't care for that on the internet). My approach to memory is from a lower-level, to me pointer has always been "points to memory", even the c++ book I own probably defined it as such. Security books further established it in my mind. I change my stance depending on observation - I never heard of integer-pair pointers before today nor have I read the C++ standard. Now I'm aware of it. But the experience of people bashing my knowledge has been...
@Cinch "fixed font" (the button)
@sehe huh?
@Nisk It doesn't even matter that such machines exist. The compilers don't care. Again, you cannot assume you code is translated to machine code in a linear fashion.
@R.MartinhoFernandes didn't use clang much (yet, we plan to have a buildslave with it), but IIRC its errors are million light-years more helpful than any other compiler
@R.MartinhoFernandes well kind of comical in a twisted sense
16:02
Okay
What do you guys think?
@BartoszKP That has been false for years now.
C-like mockup for a concept tryout
@BartoszKP If you're using a recent GCC and expect a mind-blowing improvement in error messages by switching to clang, you will be disappointed.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't assume that, but the fundamental operation will apply to a memory address surely, I'm not arguing compiler doesn't do crazy shit to get to it
@Nisk No, it might not apply to a memory address.
16:04
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think so.
Not many years at least.
byte
> addr
> > memblock
> > > register
> > > tuple
> > > > process
@R.MartinhoFernandes tboh I forgot which GCC (I'm on Windows) we have, but I think it's at least 4.8.
I think that might be the structure of the thing
@Jefffrey please elaborate.
memblock = pointer
Or... something like that
16:05
@BartoszKP That one is nice. Colours is 4.9 I think though.
memblock being a tuple pair of some sort
(if you care about that stuff)
24
A: Meaning of int (*) (int *) = 5 (or any integer value)

EdwardIt is not valid C++. Remember that because your particular compiler happens to compile it doesn't make it valid. Compilers, like all complex software, sometimes have bugs and this appears to be one. By contrast clang++ complains: funnycast.cpp:3:11: error: expected expression int (*) (i...

@Jefffrey Clang is not many years old.
Just an example.
16:05
@Jefffrey Don't worry, I can give examples the other way around.
There's one in this morning's transcript, actually.
Please do.
I'm unsure of how to write a VM for this though, but I think I have an idea
I don't trade anecdotes that way, and you should know by now.
@LucDanton we have build logs viewable as txt, so I guess not :D
16:06
Unity's input system is annoying
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
@CatPlusPlus A bit too unit-y for you?
@BartoszKP I tee the output and strip the colour on the logging end. Best of both worlds.
Also singletons everywhere aaaa
oh um I guess I keep a colour log these days actually—nevermind
16:07
@CatPlusPlus What do you think about a coordinated register-based language as a solution to concurrency and error-handling?
@LucDanton You have to strip it? Clang won't output colours if writing to a pipe. (You have to force it with a flag)
Rightfold and Bartek left me so eh.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I want the pwetty colours for my terminal. You actually have to jump through hoops to keep them by forcing with the flag, too, when ninja is involved. (Keep in mind things have changed with 5.1 and with newer Ninja as well I think.)
16:09
rightfold can't left anything/anyone
But the idea is that we have a minimal instruction/function set on a mid-level abstraction level and then have each process/function have its own local register rather than stack while subscribing to a larger parent register that stores the status of the process
@Jefffrey Actually, yours is not an example of a better error message, since that GCC version compiled the code due to a bug.
Ah, there's one in the comments, with the C compiler.
@Cinch What does that even mean
That way we can leave the door open to implement many different types of concurrency schemes as well as error-handling schemes by just exposing read-only status to the outside
@CatPlusPlus That means every thread is independent of each other and we have a register to store the state of threads
user1804599
I need a way to encode value identities.
16:11
So, it's threads
This can go recursively up or down
lol Bartek on a hypocritical nerdrage cos he got suspended for posting toxic and provocative messages again? awesome
@rightfold You back?
@Jefffrey Funny, the poor error message from this morning is more or less the same, except it comes from clang.
Ready for Register-lang?
16:11
it's EOB and I've accomplished loads... just not what I set out to accomplish
user1804599
@Jefffrey I never wrote non-text games in functional programming languages.
byte
> addr
> > memblock
> > > tuple
> > > register
> > > > process

Does this look right?
Thanks anyway then
user1804599
@Cinch No, that's why I'm writing messages.
user1804599
@Jefffrey Unless you consider Game Maker Language functional.
16:12
Not interested in that one anyway.
user1804599
OK.
@Cinch if it supposed to be alphabetically sorted, it doesn't look right
@BartoszKP It's the data-type structure so far
user1804599
If I had to make one I'd use Clojure or Scala.
Okay it's probably wrong
16:13
yep, a comes before b
user1804599
Although it's a PITA without lenses, and I don't know whether the lens generators for Scala are good.
The idea is that each process will own a register of its own and expose its state to the world using the register
@Cinch what is this supposed to be?
No fucking clue
@khajvah A supposed data-type hierarchy for the basics of an implementation of a register-based programming languages, henceforth referred to as Register-Lang or RL
user1804599
16:14
Alright, I know how to encode value identity.
So you're reinventing assembly or what
what the hell is register-lang ?
@CatPlusPlus No, I wanted to create more of a common VM or some sort of hierarchy for a register-based programming language
You're using words but they don't mean anything
user1804599
For values with address identity (such as arrays and other mutable values), the encoding is eight 0 bytes followed by the address of the value. For other values it's eight bytes of the address of the concrete type of the value followed by a type-specific encoding.
16:16
Anyway
@rightfold for Mill or RL?
user1804599
Mill, of course.
Okay
@Cinch So you want to create a PL which has direct access to registers?
I have tasks then more tasks then different tasks
user1804599
16:16
I really don't have a clue of what you've been talking about for the past hour.
@khajvah No, a programming language that is abstracted with local registers rather than stacks.
user1804599
Other than that your ass is jealous of your mouth because of the amount of shit that comes out of it.
2
genuinely amusing read
@rightfold lol
16:17
@Cinch you've just renamed "variables" to "registers". good job
I see Johnny Quaffing jumped on the bandwagon too
user1804599
holy crap
user1804599
I know somebody who lives near the volcano that exploded in Chile.
@rightfold ☩💩
user1804599
coooooooooool volcanos
user1804599
16:18
> Maybelline Introduces Line Of Injectable Makeup To Enhance Appearance Of Internal Organs
I tried to find a holey crap but Unicode does not appear to have one
So cool or volcano because
@rightfold Maybe she's made for it
user1804599
volcanos are cool
my facebook new feed is filed with new ubuntu bullshit.
16:20
Yo momma's not cool because she's fat enough to undergo fusion
I'm going to assume C and C++ already does the static memory calcualations for calling a function or creating a class since it knows size_of
@JerryCoffin Waiiit. I meant they are orthogonal.
Truth is independent from provocativeness.
PROVE IT OR I'LL CUT U
or something
You can be true and snarky at the same time.
16:21
@Cinch Size of what?
@khajvah stuff
int has a size
float has a size
structs have a size
@khajvah sizeof
etc etc etc you get it
@Cinch You where talking about functions
Why are you bothering? Jerry refuses to even come close to admitting that I'm ever right about anything or have ever helped anyone / contributed positively to anything. You know that. I know that. I have accepted it and moved on. Nothing you say will change his mind, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary that only a three year old could justifiably miss.
^ true and snarky at the same time
16:23
@khajvah A function can probably be called with a fixed amount of memory if it doesn't do dynamic memory allocation
@LightningRacisinObrit Same for this one, I guess.
@R.MartinhoFernandes :)
@Cinch The stack size you mean?
Hey what's the best way to move a plant to a bigger pot? I'm not really sure how to get it out of its current pot without destroying it :/
@khajvah I suppose. But in RL it would not be abstracted as a stack.
16:24
@LightningRacisinObrit What about using Google once in a while
@Cinch So, how are you going to call a functions?
@LightningRacisinObrit usually when you grab it, and pull out, it holds the soil with its roots, that goes out with it
@Columbo Google is not a person with experience and wisdom.
@khajvah like any other function
@BartoszKP Even when the plant is quite young?
16:24
With a C-like syntax it'd be function();
@LightningRacisinObrit For the same reason I bother to defend you sometimes. I care.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That can be a difficult burden :(
I try not to care, but it's not always easy.
@Cinch Dude, you said you are not going to abstract it as a stack
@LightningRacisinObrit no, I suppose. use a spoon/small shovel perhaps?
Some days I feel like caring is a positive trait and it should be re-activated.
Other days I'm glad I don't.
16:25
@LightningRacisinObrit I like to think it's one reason I'm a room owner.
@BartoszKP ok I might just slide my gloved hands around the inside of the current pot then
@khajvah Well, I suppose some sort of RL-compiler would grab the required amount of memory to run the program
@R.MartinhoFernandes That makes sense. But, then, well, clearly it's not a prerequisite.
brb gardening attempt #1
@Cinch I have no idea what you are trying to do. I haven't slept last night. Maybe that's the reason
@LightningRacisinObrit yeah, if the soil is loose enough
16:26
@khajvah lol
user1804599
Like, is &typeid(T) == &typeid(T) guaranteed true?
It annoys me a surprising amount that this was refered to as an 8-bit sculpture
@BartoszKP ok wish me luck
The idea stemmed from the idea that maybe C has taken a hold of programming paradigms too much and maybe I should try thinking of something different
@LightningRacisinObrit sure! laterz
cya all
16:28
@Puppy hey! I'm gonna sneak along with sbi tonight. Seeya in a couple of hours! :D
@Cinch You gotta learn the theory behind language design before thinking of something completely different
Also, and don't see this as defending LRiO, but more at making sure Bartek doesn't go on a rampage (again?) because then I'll probably have to kick him, and I don't want to do that.
@khajvah Right? I really need to do stuff
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is Bartek really that bad?
@Cinch What does "that bad" mean?
If he was "that bad" I'd probably have no qualms kicking him.
@Cinch he's passionate, and comes across just a spot crazy in chat. IRL he's reasonable to talk to about things.
16:29
@R.MartinhoFernandes Right. I haven't seen him get "that bad"
@thecoshman Oh you've met him
@Cinch uncon
@thecoshman ik
oh no, not you again arma.sourceforge.net
@thecoshman "I Know"
16:31
@Cinch ... then why ask?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I figured that.
@thecoshman No I mean "I met him at unicon" "I figured that"
The people from here that I've met in person have been pretty cool, yeah. It's only in chat that most come across as assholes :p
ah god I'm just redesigning Lisp I think
@jalf Programmers are kind creatures in person.
16:32
@khajvah Some of them, certainly :P
any professional programmer must have patience; at some level
I wonder if operations should be exposed as language features or functions
But then we get Lisp
@LightningRacisinObrit [Not that you'll bother reading this, but...] No, it's flat-out not true. I've openly stated that you're right about things at times. The problem isn't that you're never right about anything, or anything similar--it's that the negatives outweigh the positives by a wide margin.
@sehe I can wait for many milliseconds.
yup; also, selective patience
They can't up with what they already know taxes that limited supply
16:37
It seems to me that you spend most of your time playing "lawyer", finding all the worst things you can do without quite breaking the law to the point that you can/will be thrown in prison. At the same time, the overwhelming evidence is that your presence (both here and on SO as a whole) is much more negative than positive.
Consider, for example, your most recent answer:
1
A: Can I do this with a template class in c++

Lightning Racis in ObritWhich function will be called is resolved at compile-time, because any half-decent modern compiler can optimize away unused cases from your switch.

lambdas as processes...
@sehe Also the global scope (they most often work with people from everywhere) has some effect
Now, on one hand, anybody can see that it's been up-voted--which I'm sure you take as "overwhelming evidence" that it's a positive contribution. At the same time, anybody with functioning eyes can see that it's a direct copy and paste of πάντα ῥεῖ's comment, without attribution of the source. In short, it's obviously plagiarized, and you deserve precisely zero credit for any positive contribution in this case.
This is hardly unique--just the most recent/obvious case at the moment.
@JerryCoffin I agree, but you're merely pissing LRiO off instead of making him realize [what you just enumerated]
At least I believe that's the overall result.
TIL, Ubuntu is developers' favorite linux distribution.
16:43
Can you pass a frame in C++?
Pass a what
@JerryCoffin Actually, it's not a direct copy and paste. And what he said was obvious to anyone with a decent understanding of the matter. The wording is different, too. So it's not really plagiarism.
i.e. if I throw an exception, can I pass the stack's state with it?
@Columbo O RLY?
Pass the what
16:44
or "context" or whatever
lol this is not gonna end
malloc teh memory and copy the stack contents onto it
If I have a stack but the line of execution fails, can I pass the stack onto it?
@Columbo Okay, not quite cut-n-paste, but yes still clear-cut plagiarism.
Can you be more vague?
16:46
@JerryCoffin The line he wrote is simply the thing to say here. Is he forced to write another, not so relevant line so as to avoid being ascribed plagiarism?
For example, I have a function that divides arg1 by arg2
If arg2 is 0, can I pass arg2 and arg1 back to another place?
@Cinch You mean pass whatever is left in the stack to something?
@khajvah yeah I suppose
The stuff that the function or whatever was operatng on
@khajvah If it doesn't have the most recent g++ it's not "developers' distribution".
I realised that and switched from Linux Mint to Fedora.
fedora is amazing
16:47
@Columbo He shouldn't have posted it at all--it had already been posted, and he had precisely nothing to add. If he insisted on copying without contributing anything new, he should have at least attributed the source.
@JerryCoffin Also, LRiO is notorious for hating comment-answers, pedantically correcting anyone on it, even if the comment in question is not a complete answer. I, for one, think this is stupid. But he will copy&paste your comment if you haven't done so.
@JerryCoffin Alright, but if you add a source for one line of damn text, your answer looks ludicrous.
And he wanted to answer badly.
With nothing more to say.
At least that's my impression.
@Columbo What he is, is a rep-whore who can't stand others making that obvious by helping people ways that don't involve rep-whoring.
@Columbo That's because his answer is ludicrous.
@JerryCoffin He has got far more rep than the vast majority of users on this site. His repwhoring days must be over, they just have to be.
@Columbo money is never enough
16:50
Are we really fighting over LRiO semantics?
@Columbo Look through his recent answers, and draw your own conclusion.
@JerryCoffin Isn't the answer cwiki?
I mean, not even I care about rep anymore. I got >20k, which grants me all privileges this site has to offer. Also @JerryCoffin his answer is a CW, though I genuinely think he might have done that exceptionally as an act of symbolism: "Look, I'm writing CWs too! Not a repwhore!"
@rightfold yea
4
@khajvah can't generalize developers, they are a picky bunch. Personally I use arch linux.
16:51
@JerryCoffin Can't be bothered. He's not a kid anymore, anyway, so we shouldn't assume idiotic, childish motives.
@Nisk I read that in ubuntu's website. Arch has great a wiki and a great package manager.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It is now. I'm not at all sure it was originally (though it's possible it was).
user1804599
@JohanLarsson :D
Arch is shit
never a dull day at Lounge<????>
@CatPlusPlus You take that back
16:54
@CatPlusPlus yeah it is the shit
No, it's just shit
@CatPlusPlus arch is amaze.
nah jk arch is pretty bad
But its the best desktop distro I've used
user1804599
16:54
Although in Dutch we also have "ziekenwagen" (as well as "ambulance").
distro war is starting. Get pop-corn, everybody.
There's no timeline view on answers :/
heh heh, so what about that Debian eh? that is pretty nifity right?
:boots up Ubuntu:
I'm not happy. You can't blame me for liking defending him if this sort of shit happens.
16:55
@JohanLarsson Polish: głośność (sound volume), or objętość (volume of the liquid)
NOObuntu
@rlemon Debian: The distro for old sys admins
@milleniumbug he comes?
the worst distro Ive ever used was Angstrom Linux (on a beagle bone black)
with that said, opkg is a terrible package manager
I have never had Linux on a box.
16:57
He'll be back and he'll be annoyed at "baseless character assassination" again, and fuck, how can I not side with him?
@JohanLarsson ?
real talk Lounge, what is the best linux distro package manager
apt (imo)
pacman (though I use fedora)
zypper? rpm? apt? emerge? pacman?
16:57
but I've only been exposed to a few
@CatPlusPlus Shut your mouth cat
I hate yum, opkg, rpm is okayish, npm isn't really a package manager as it is a POS.
apt is the best I've used
I've never come across a package manager thats really that much better than the rest
@JerryCoffin I checked, and most are answers to questions that are not promising.
@milleniumbug lame joke due to diacritic.
16:58
@Prismatic portage is my favourite.
Pretty much all of them have UNRESOLVABLE DEPENDENCY LOL errors
So he did it because he wanted to help, or what?
@JohanLarsson OIC
I mean, you only wanted to post one example. It didn't require a lot of checking to make sure it was an actual example of what you would accuse him of.
@rlemon lol apt

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