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19:00
What do you get in return?
user1804599
@sehe done, pass --no-jit to configure.
Nothing he is a friend
@райтфолд --no-shit, go figure
user1804599
lol
@Cinch a future ex-friend
user1804599
19:01
I can also pass you the example object files if you don't want to get the compiler to work. :P
I might seriously TA for C and C++ next year because I feel that people need help
Don't ruin people's lives with programming
C and C++? Hopefully not in the same course.
It's two semesters in a row
Starting with C++ or C?
19:02
C
Ugh
Xeo
Xeo
@fredoverflow He'll be the first Objective-COBOL#++ teacher.
Yeah it's terrible
AND it's switchable with Java
What does that mean?
Because computer engineers totally learn Java to build enbedded
Or design NAND circuits
user1804599
19:05
Alright, time to write the disassembler so debugging becomes actually possible.
@райтфолд what are you writing?
langauge?
user1804599
A disassembler.
For what?
user1804599
For Mill bytecode.
Objective-COBOL#+++++++?
CNC?
I'm thinking of removing the majority of information in bold.
It seems like too much.
19:12
Aren't there enough C++ tutorials on the Internet already?
user1804599
No.
Not taking the wind out of your sails; if you enjoy it, by all means keep doing it.
user1804599
@fredoverflow OOP is a very specialised tool suitable for a very small set of problems.
"There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-1 errors"
4
user1804599
Hence bothering beginners that won't be exposed to those problems immediately with it is silly.
19:14
@райтфолд GUIs
@fredoverflow I'm creating a super compact tutorial series.
@райтфолд Exactly.
That's why I don't think people should learn this until they encounter these problems.
Anyone know if there's a well supported portable alternative to the 'thread_local' keyword? Using it seems like a crapshoot
user1804599
__thread works on clang and GCC but only with PODs.
user1804599
Also POSIX threading APIs.
user1804599
(Portable in my vocab means "runs on OS X and Gentoo.")
user1804599
19:16
Everything is portable. Just hasn't been ported yet!
GUIs need reactive more than OO
It looks like __thread or thread_local don't work right on android. Support also looks complicated on OSX... maybe pthreads? But then is pthreads even on windows?
Yes, why wouldn't it be
@Pris yep
Cool, model's clean() is not automatically called on save
ughughughuhgugh
19:32
ugh[esc]yw5p?
Is it possible to determine in wich order will global object be destroyed?
I have to say stb_voxel is pretty impresssive
Though 42M tris isnt that much
@райтфолд like on MSVC.
19:42
@Satus Across translation units? no
@fredoverflow thank you
@Satus Google "Static initialization order fiasco"
user1804599
haha
Anyway makes me feel shit about my work
user1804599
GS kreeg dreigbrief over cookiemelding van overheidsinstelling
user1804599
19:43
> > Indien u vragen heeft over bepaalde andere cookies (zoals bijvoorbeeld Google, Twitter, etc) en hun gebruik, raden wij u aan om contact op te nemen met de betreffende partijen. Als specialist op het gebied van privacy & cookies zult u veel beter in staat zijn om de betreffende partijen en bijbehorende contactmethodes te achterhalen dan wij. Sterkte daarmee!
Boarding a plane
Talk to you grom barbarian lands
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Good luck.
user1804599
Where are you going?
If you hold this commit close to your ear, you can hear the tears. https://github.com/milessabin/shapeless/commit/57b1e0071c7ea7403cbfc19f4e1d9946e324853e
wtf com.google works now
@sehe useful, thank you
19:45
:D
user1804599
this is funny and perhaps nsfw joancornella.bigcartel.com
@sehe blame gTLD's
user1804599
Google has their own DNS servers. :P
user1804599
:D
19:48
mind=dog
@sehe How does google propagate that to everyone?
hrm? not heard of dns?
Why tears for scala
user1804599
> What are you drinking?
> Pie
I have heard of dogs not sleeping.
user1804599
19:50
Why is this option there.
Never seen it though.
why do you have to wait to throw up bounty
user1804599
lol
user1804599
19:53
@Pris Because Bounty isn't too disgusting.
user1804599
@sehe tried --no-jit yet?
user1804599
Hmm, I should implement integers.
--no-yet
user1804599
OIC
Is there such a system that allows a C++ program to run in a VM such that I can run the program and see it's values and function calls in real time?
Like a debugger but not
More like a visualization tool
19:54
Yes, yes, it is.
It's called a debugger
user1804599
ugh amazon.com
user1804599
redesign is terrible
yay, sum millisecond update, ooh fuck 160 millisecond display :\
No I mean being able to make a VM for such a thing even if the program is not optimized for debugging
user1804599
19:55
oh it's only a splash screen
hehe
It's still called a debugger
A debugger is just a basic program. What I'm looking for is more like a suite or visual wrapper around it
Is there such a thing yet? Hmm.
guess what?
there is, it's called a debugger!
user1804599
You'd basically need a breakpoint at every instruction.
user1804599
19:58
Otherwise you run into synchronisation hell.
I'm asking if you know of a wrapper around GDB that does such a thing in an extremely visual way
well there we go, a different question
I.e. LogicWorks for C++
Or LLDB, whichever works better
Or perhaps I should build one myself
¹ You have to write the tool first though.
Ikr
20:00
That was a footnote to "yes, yes, it is."
user1804599
lol tumblr's office assistant
I better brush up on GDB
> in an extremely visual way
user1804599
> It looks like you want to find out more about a blog.
awesome product specs
user1804599
20:01
No I want to watch porn goddammit.
@Cinch DDD
greetings chapz
Ugh
"extremely visual"
Also, dafuq is this shit. Why does every such software need to be written in non-portable shit.
20:03
Isnt there a way to create a program that can run scripts and react to output?
user1804599
ja :)
there isn't.
Turing made expressly sure of those in amendments to his law
/sq
@Cinch Like almost any program ever?
@райтфолд hehe you retwote it
user1804599
20:04
Thanks for reminding me. I already forgot.
user1804599
I guess I will first implement multiple names for parameters.
1
Q: How much longer can one reproduce?

Kerrek SBI have always felt that the close reason "caused by a problem that can no longer be reproduced" was a bit awkward. The wording "no longer" suggests that the problem was demonstrably reproducible, and indeed reproduced, up to a certain point and then stopped being reproducible. This is not someth...

^^ dat title
user1804599
They're easy to implement and if I don't then I might forget.
The universe is a prank that got way out of hand.
I hate having metered bandwidth
This shit is awful. Sometimes I leave a video stream or something on by accident and slag a bunch of my available bandwidth
Its like leaving the faucet on
Ahahaha Sid Meier's Starships looks so incredibly not worth any money
@sehe Why do people do these things on April 1st.
Was that Redis I saw? Fucking ridiculous. I've seen better persistence from people in my bra. What a tragic flaw.
@Rapptz "Thanks Obama"? Really confused here
user1804599
20:25
I'm gonna make switch fail if no branch matches.
user1804599
So switch true { case false => … } is wrong.
user1804599
And make switch { … } short for switch true { … }.
@Pris I sometimes download things, just to get better valaue out of my unlimited connection.
@райтфолд ala Rust
user1804599
switch, not match.
vOv same difference
20:29
doesn't match replace switch?
well... actually no
user1804599
No.
user1804599
match checks patterns whereas switch checks equality.
match implies you expect to find an actual match, switch should allow no matches to pass through.
user1804599
switch is particularly useful as an alternative to if–else if–else chains, which are totally unreadable, unmaintainable and ugly.
20:30
@райтфолд ew
Don't name it switch - it reminds me of horrible switch instruction in C language.
user1804599
It's not syntax for a jump table.
user1804599
It'll try the cases from top to bottom and execute the first one that's equal.
user1804599
Lisps typically call it cond if applied to Booleans.
@райтфолд so switch or match... well, that's the first one that's 'true'
20:31
you can name it which
user1804599
switch 1 {
    case 2 => "C"
    case 1 => "A"
    case 1 => "B"
}
user1804599
Result will be "A".
no, compiler error, you shouldn't be allowed two cases with the same condition
user1804599
Why not?
user1804599
The compiler cannot even detect such a thing in many cases:
20:32
I used the boost regex one you provided, and it works perfectly. Thanks a plenty. — AppleJuice 3 mins ago
of course - what else could have happened /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
user1804599
switch x {
    case f() => …
    case g() => …
}
Well. Let's respond in style:
@AppleJuice you realize that you chose the ugly stepchild right :) The only one that comes with link dependencies, requires exemptions in your life insurances, and requires you to manually remove the escape even after it was parsed :) (luckily enough it doesn't require a virgin sacrifice to compile, like #1; and #3 induces c envy). Cheers — sehe 39 secs ago
it makes no sense to allow it, detecting that you add another case that would never be reached should force you to either remove the dead code or work out the correct pattern
user1804599
It could be a warning at best.
user1804599
Definitely not an error; that'd require solving the halting problem in the general case.
20:34
if the compiler can detect that the two patterns are the same, what reason is there for the bade code?
user1804599
How are you going to make this decision whether it can detect it?
@райтфолд not at all. if the compiler can detect the duplicates, it can do whatever it once to report that, warn, error, pizza.
@райтфолд if they are both const expr and the same, reject it. If it requires execution, then fair enough, it will have to be allowed paste.
user1804599
Warning, it is.
ie switch x { case f() => ... case f() => ... } f could mutate state, so compiler can't reject that, unless f() is const expr
user1804599
It can if it knows about the body of f!
user1804599
20:37
If it knows f is pure it can do that. :P
@райтфолд well you could require that functions are 'pure' unless marked otherwise
user1804599
no
user1804599
not doing that
@райтфолд if you can detect it, why allow it?
@райтфолд Yes--if you're going to allow expressions (not just constants) as the cases, then you're pretty much left with the fact that it's just a different syntax for a cascade of if/then/else, and having duplicates is allowable. Personally, I think I'd try to change the syntax to provide better differentiation from existing switch/case statements, but that's a lot less definite.
user1804599
20:38
@JerryCoffin Could do that.
user1804599
firsteq and when, perhaps. :P
chain_if x {
    case f() => ...
    case f() => ...
}
case expr => ... is too much noise.
fairly easy to understand it's basically doing a else if chain
@райтфолд Hmmm...maybe match (x) ... when abc ... when def ...?
20:40
chain_if x {
    f() => ...
    f() => ...
}
user1804599
@JerryCoffin match is already taken.
@райтфолд for?
user1804599
For pattern matching.
@райтфолд Fair enough.
user1804599
match xs {
    case list() => list()
    case x :: xs => f(x) :: map(xs, f)
}
20:42
Keyword "junction" anybody?
user1804599
@Cinch Perl 6 has junctions!
user1804599
They're like, awesome.
I wonder if function objects from boost phoenix could be serialized and deserialized. If they could be sent over rpc for remote invocation. It seems to approach something akin to "eval".
@райтфолд why can't you drop the 'case'?
@райтфолд Hmm...maybe rename match to type_match, and then have val_match, using as similar of syntax as reasonable?
user1804599
20:44
@thecoshman Dunno whether it would raise ambiguities.
@райтфолд don't see how really...
Xeo
Xeo
Ugh. The Lost is such an annoying character /cc @Rapptz
match xs { next thing must be a pattern you can match against. and right after any expression you expect either } or you read another pattern,
// C++ "eval"
for_(ref(i) = 0, ref(i) < arg1, ++ref(i))
[
    cout << arg1 << ", "
]
@Xeo ikr
20:46
@StackedCrooked Old hat. Just regular Boost Phoenix
Xeo
Xeo
I got two runs with the perfect starting items (Holy Mantle and Dead Cat, respectively), and I still screwed up
so bad
Yeah. You disappoint me
Xeo
Xeo
The Holy Mantle run had The Haunt as the first floor boss. :(
user1804599
@thecoshman consider this:
user1804599
match xs {
    a =>
        # is this an empty branch or a variable name 'b'?
    b(c) => # is this the pattern 'b(c)' or '(c)'?
}
20:47
@sehe It looks so interesting. But I still haven't found of a use case for it.
@райтфолд vOv your fault for not having expressions clearly ended
user1804599
They are clearly ended, by semicolons.
@райтфолд Would depend on how easily you can identify the end of an expression. With semicolons that's usually trivial; without, you usually identify the end of one when you get to something that's unambiguously the beginning of the next (IOW, I think you may well be right that the case is necessary, though it's impossible to say without seeing the grammar).
There must be something really cool that can be done by it.
@StackedCrooked You can. Iff you provide a transformation from expression tree -> string and ... brrrr something to piece one back. This will then have lost all inlining and optimization benefit, so you could just as well use regular parsing/bytecode
20:48
@райтфолд ah.... I see now... no, still could be defined well enough.
user1804599
A post-lexing step replaces newlines by semicolons if they occur between certain pairs of tokens (such as between ) and case).
user1804599
:D :D :D
Wasn't there some tool that someone created a year or two ago that took a companies web page as-is and allowed others to edit the content and publish it (although under a different url)? I remember someone created a fake page of some famous company acquiring another company and everyone fell for it. The famous company had to release statement saying that it was false. I believe the creator shut down the site a couple of days later.
@StackedCrooked Spirit is good use case. Small inline function objects are a cool use case
20:49
Spirit doesn't build on top of Phoenix, does it?
@райтфолд
Guess GitHub isn't the only one under attack
user1804599
What's the difference with C++11 lambdas?
@StackedCrooked It does. Well. For anything semantic action
Xeo
Xeo
@райтфолд Terseness?
user1804599
20:49
@sehe Scala does it the same way and it works totally fine, and my syntax is quite similar to Scala's in this regard.
@райтфолд the post lexer substitution, not so much
user1804599
@Xeo ok :3
@DonLarynx gosh. what a level
How does no one remember. People in other rooms don't remember this either
user1804599
some guy called me a pretty girl
20:51
@sehe april foooooooooooooooooools
@райтфолд you wish you were a girl
@DonLarynx yeah. about that level yes
Stupendously bad
user1804599
I like how far Go goes with semicolon insertion, but unfortunately that can't apply to Mill because of the syntactic differences.
What is this Mill programming language
@DemCodeLines Doesn't sound like you'd (necessarily) need much beyond wget and a host for the edited page (plus, I suppose, a normal HTML editor).
user1804599
// In Go, the following is a syntax error:
func f()
{ }
// because of the semicolon inserted after the closing parenthesis
user1804599
20:53
Which is good, because it enforces the only reasonable brace style ever.
ah shit
why'd I use mercurial for this back then
user1804599
// Similarly, it _requires_ trailing commas after the last item in a multiline list:
return []string{
    "foo",
    "bar", // comma required here
}
@райтфолд but Allman
user1804599
Stallman.
20:55
OMG!
@райтфолд Stalled...forever.
@sehe I wanted the time stamp.
@wilx I have it
@sehe Oh, I see. Deserialization of remote objects that do not have a type that is known by the receiver means the only way to reconstruct it is by building a tree of abstract base classes. In contrast Phoenix objects are typically nested tuples (with types known at compile time.)
That's a lousy eval.
Oh serialiZation
20:57
@StackedCrooked "lousy eval" is redundant.
@StackedCrooked Or by having an exhaustive tree of possible expression instances and matching them :)
why can't they just have a table with ports or something
I.e. send this data to this port only for this type
I only need to have an instantiation ready for every possible combination.
What do you think about this fellas, any concise input?
18
Q: Enable a two stage question commit process?

πάντα ῥεῖAs for the overwhelming load of low quality questions coming into SO, I want to propose to have a two stage committing process for question posters. Seemingly many of the (especially new) users don't review their questions before hitting the Post Your Question button. Also many of them don't se...

A deserialized (dynamic) object tree could generate it's structure as phoenix source code, invoke the compiler on it and link it dynamically into the main app.

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