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03:00
Well I mean the bottom up API is kind of already provided I would imagine.
uh
I thought we would have talked about top–down vs bottom–up before. Nevermind then.
Now I'm just confused :)
It’s qualifying the design process, not the end result. You could end up with the same API with either approach, depending.
No I get that.
What is a bottom up API then?
03:04
well by that I meant more like the architectural process where you get the building blocks to create something bigger and more flexible, like lego.
$ wc -l errors.err
38772 errors.err
what have I done
Almost 7 MB lol
Hey guys
can anybody give me a clue about this?
0
Q: ELK stack cluster health yellow and Kibana doesn't work

EnglishMasterI am trying-out installing and setting up ELK stack on AWS. However I'm having trouble with Logstash and Kibana. I currently have 2 Elastic search instances and they are load balanced and working well. However, when I hit http://load_balance_url:9200/_plugin/head/, I get the following result: ...

Mmmh compiles in <4s. Actually not too bad… what a sad thing to say.
Hello?
hey
What do you want?
03:11
I'm still stuck on trying to remove the dependency on Boost.Any for compiling my library
I'm trying to hide it but I can't find a way to.
Boost.Any is a header-only library, but my own isn't
You can pimpl your way out of it, possibly.
well, then stop depending on it
Stop using all respective libraries
I hear you can hire Jon Skeet to stare at code until it decouples itself.
@EnglishMaster stop it
all I'm wondering is what I need to include in the program's header.
The one I expose to programmers
Just stop exposing things to your programmers and make your app self-contained
03:14
@EnglishMaster You don't get it.
I'm creating a library.
Why?
What kind of library is it?
You might be able to work the include into a forward declaration with a level of indirection.
Yeah I don't know.
Currently I have one header for all my dependencies.
It's included in each source file but meh.
Or expose your own class that wraps it for what you need to do with it.
@chris It's already been wrapped.
Compiling goes well.
03:17
Has the world been not-so smart enough to tackle with problems in their program without your library?
@EnglishMaster That's not the point.
This is an educational thing.
Are trying to educate your target audiences about "how to build a library"?
No, this is self learning.
Well, in real life situation, no companies will build a "library" to make money unless they have maniac investors who trust you so much that the library will end up sold by Google or something
@EnglishMaster Hold on your horses.
@EnglishMaster In highly specialized environments it usually happens.
03:23
Nowadays, no one builds anything from scratch. Webdesigners in my company are so lazy they use Twitter bootstrap everywhere on our application except for things that clients will see
@EnglishMaster Oh my god.
That's not the point.
and I've personllay never built anything from scratch in my life. I want to try it out sometimes though
it sounds amusing
It's like saying, "How can I use a computer?"
"Damn kids will never use a computer. Use a freaking smartphone or tablet. I've never used a computer in my life."
Drones, for example. Having the 3D Robotics suite only as a tool for these devices and Pix4D for the aerial mapping and the high (really high) costs, investing from 50000 dollars to 200000 dollars is fair for them.
Nobody even uses command-line interface nowadays too
unless it's necessary, like when you are working on remote server that doesn't have visual interface
03:26
Blanket statements all day every day
For compiling or in general?
Wait, why am I even asking
PARK, are you Korean?
As I told you before, in highly specialized environments it usually happens. Robotics is a field in which you need to develop a library for a range of devices and those are implemented in a wider range.
@EnglishMaster According to you?
According to 500 startups, Y Combinator and other VC companies.
03:28
what do you mean
The market size is 80 billion for civilian drones but there are few tools that can be used to control them.
Thanks, for pinging me, I've noticed your message before that. However, I asked you a "question" instead of justifying your nationality.
So I;'m expecting an answer from you
but you just asked a question in return
so I replied "what do you mean?", it's your turn
I pinged you because Victor thought my message was for him, obviously
Also I'm not sure how my nationality is relevant to anything
Also if I recall correctly you have asked me that question in the past already
And it didn't go well
Jul 7 '14 at 9:57, by EnglishMaster
@ParkYoung-Bae It seems like English is intriguing to you in general. Your name gives me strong feeling about English is your second or even fourth language. Do you want to fill the gap in your language proficiency and turn 'r' letter in your Engrish to 'l' so it becomes English?
Now get out
So, if you can provide a solution for a highly specialized field, architecture, search and rescue, logistic and such, even if it is a web appication you can still get funded and develop the right tool for the client wallet.
Even if it has educational purposes.
Even better. Since you can implement that in universities, high schools and still receive funds from your nation. If they have those programs, else, you can check if your country enables you to join alien programs for R&D.
EnglishMaster, that isn't even good grammar.
03:43
Can we just get along and op op op op oppa gangnam style?
@VictorLopez ...
@Cinch Can you speak Korean? Any language from Asia? It is hard. They have pretty great communication skills.
@Cinch And I've seen that for someone from Asia it is really easy to speak Spanish, even better than some Mexicans around here.
Español es muy fácil!
Madre mía.
@VictorLopez ...
:D
03:58
Somebody told me once "Your culture is your brand".
I don't know how the rest of the world sees us Mexicans. Tacos or Tequila with a Mariachi hat, maybe.
Ay, ay, ay, ay, canta y no llores.
@VictorLopez ...
Cartels
Funsies
@Cinch I prefer to see you for your Hula Hoop rather than for your volcanoes.
@VictorLopez Most of our volcanoes are dead lol.
04:06
Intel?
And why was my comment starred so much?
Was it that bad?
04:25
@NeilKirk I wasn't even fully focused when I wrote it
Are you seriously start going to bashing on my grammar? Fine, let's see if you make any grammar mistake when you are speaking in this chat.
BTW Samsung is probably going to buyout AMD soon
what do you guys think about it?
05:01
It's not gonna happen
ffs YouCompleteMe swaps my machine to death
std::swap(my_machine, death)
somehow made worse by the fact that I’ve put off getting rid of the swap space on this machine for a while
Why would somebody write a test to prove something fails but in order to write a test, the person already need to know how it fails?
05:17
Here's the event framework I came up with
@Cinch Can it determine and tell me in event-driven approach that a girl likes me or not?
05:35
@Cinch Nice committing of your binaries there
Which makes me wonder how many petabytes GitHub has wasted on versioned binaries
06:05
@ParkYoung-Bae Did you look at the stuff QQ?
@ParkYoung-Bae The future is here.
@Cinch Google ".gitignore C++"
So what's this case style called?
It's not Bjarne_case.
Is it Upper_Bjarne_Case?
Reverse_Standard_Case?
Also tabs
lol wow there are a lot of binaries
@Rapptz Bjarne_Stroustrup_Case bc proper name.
I just saw the .o files and lol'd but there are a lot
.o, .a, .exe
bikeshedding aside I have no comments
the design seems pretty mediocre
06:12
> #include "../src/Event.hpp"
Wait what
lol I just noticed you duplicated the headers
One and Two
@MarkGarcia He asked!
He shall receive.
I'd fix the glaring issues before delving into the design bit
usually people use void* instead of boost::any for passing userdata in C-land
06:19
@Rapptz oh.
The point was to provide a nice type-safe wrapper for such things.
eh
I don't really like the design
What about it?
Also WHY IS MY COMMENT STARRED
(is it that bad.)
@Cinch You have provided the Lounge the pleasure it wants. Enjoy those stars while it lasts.
//No space between slashes and text irritate me
06:24
I used to do that when I was new too
> for (auto it : event_data) // argh the nonsense
@ParkYoung-Bae IT HURTS!!!
I just noticed your coding style is inconsistent in this small repo.
info_list doesn't have the same casing as Event_Queue etc.
I liked your README though.
10/10 self-deprecating humour
made me chuckle
I was doing Mexican things. Sorry about that. Anyone that knows how to restrict constructor from being filled up? Should I state directly to developers "You can't write code in the constructor"?
@Rapptz I did it as an example to show that the event indeed went inside the queue and came out the end.
06:28
Oh I mean //ugly comments
I didn't curb the habit until like 2012.
And, by the way, can you help me to become more popular?
Nope.
@VictorLopez Bad idea.
@Rapptz Why?
Why do you care if the constructor is "filled up"?
@Rapptz also
06:30
@Rapptz Implying you were new at some point
info_list I decided to separate because its meaning is closer to a type, not a class or object.
i.e. std::string is lowercase.
Because it can use functions that can't be used before the construction.
that is an amazingly inconsistent distinction
good job
Usually when you have a massive constructor you may be violating SRP
a class is a type
@VictorLopez ?
06:32
> You just plugged a device into the audio jack
Thank you computer that's very helpful
@VictorLopez Inside the body the object is almost done being constructed. It’s the initializers in the initializer list that require care.
The code in the constructor is executed after the initialisation list.
No, no, you're getting it all wrong.
It is using polymorphism
'all'?
Don't call virtual methods in a constructor
06:33
Base class has a pointer.
@ParkYoung-Bae Or do.
If you know what you're doing
@VictorLopez To what?
(You don't)
@MarkGarcia To the engine.
06:33
RIP?
lol wrong quote
Who wants to make a meta build system with me
There is actor base class
@Rapptz What does it does
EVERYTHING.
06:34
We'll bond through the process
anyway, longer constructor bodies don’t make it any more likely that you will mess up as far as constructor-specific mistakes are involved
@ParkYoung-Bae helps me create ninja files obv
See
I'll get you the code in the next comment.
@Rapptz Codevalent?
:P
@LucDanton Meh, error rate is likely constant, longer constructor => more errors
06:36
This is the actor class
Make the constructor constexpr.
Can't handle non-empty bodies.
Probably fixed in C++14.
@ParkYoung-Bae Keyword 'constructor-specific' though. You can ask for them to be shorter/refactored the same way you’d ask a function to be shorter/refactored.
@ParkYoung-Bae Personally I'd want more (runtime) errors to come up in the constructor.
It has a std::shared_ptr<core> core;
Sounds like good design.
Sorry I'm really bored
06:37
core was coded because I'm not doing ambiguous includes. A including B that includes A.
What compiler are you using
The whole 'type is polymorphic so constructors are scurry' is grade A FUD though. Cargo-cult programming territory.
@Rapptz QQ
@ParkYoung-Bae Every single class has an interface. GCC compiler.
But really if anyone wants to work with me on this ninja thing
06:38
QQ
let me know
what ninja thing
@LucDanton RESPECT MY BELIEFS
@Rapptz Kinda exhausted myself with my own thing. Even though I would like to have separate Clang builds side-by-side now :(
@Rapptz I want to generate vcxproj
06:39
@ParkYoung-Bae Because I'm using SDL + OpenGL BUT DirectX should be included, since I don't know what will come up with Vulkan I'm doing separate interface/implementations.
@ParkYoung-Bae wontfix
good one
@VictorLopez I don't understand
@Cinch help create ninja files
kinda sick and tired of all this boilerplate
Also_I_Use_This_Type_Of_Case_So_That_I_Understand_It's_A_User_Defined_Stuff foo;
@Rapptz for what
06:40
> It's
@ParkYoung-Bae The graphics. They need to be integrated with VBO and VAO but I'm unaware of DirectX techniques for drawing.
@Cinch One day you'll understand.
DirectX and OpenGL map nearly 1-to-1 (/cc @Bartek)
@Cinch Stroustrup_Case.
@Cinch Ninja files are for ninja.
06:41
@Rapptz Yeah, is that so bad?
@Cinch Is cancer so bad?
I mean I find it nicer than camelCase
@Cinch I give it a solid 3.5/10.
@Rapptz then what's better?
06:42
@Rapptz Just wait for DX12 and Vulkan and the next version of Mantle and you won't care a thing about those because all you'll do is write thousands of boilerplate code!
@Cinch It’s very loud/obnoxious. Not to the point of SCREAMING_CASE, but SCREAMING_CASE is nice for spooky stuff. You_Are_Hearing_This_In_My_Voice is loud for no good reason!
@ParkYoung-Bae And so I saw with XNA for the sprite batch class, it was no problem but AFTER the whole engine was coded only 2 classes would be allowed for the programmer to be used, actor and scene.
XNA is terrible do not use
@Rapptz Better send in a pull request.
@LucDanton Yeah, but how else do I know what variables are most likely what?
06:43
@ParkYoung-Bae Oh, no, I'm not using it, just the pattern for uploading batches into memory.
i.e. all my compile-time constants are CAPS
all my variables are snake_case
@Cinch Usually one reads the code.
I don't use caps for constants.
and all my objects are Stroustrup_Case
too obnoxious
06:43
@Rapptz Looks like Title Case, Upper Case, Lower Case, Swap Case, Toggle Case all map to the same thing
Honestly I think that caps for constants helps it stand out amongst code.
^ I give myself 6/10 for the joke
@ParkYoung-Bae If you’re a Basket Case.
4.5/10 see me after class
06:44
@Cinch Okay but that applies to anything. Why not have functions in caps? They would stand out that way.
@LucDanton None of my functions are ever in caps.
You’re cute.
So now, I have 2 classes that will be implemented in Perl, scene and actor but if the programmer decides to use C++ for writing the whole application he won't be able to load his objects with polymorphism in the inherited class constructor by adding rigid bodies or adding models (2d or 3d) without the object being constructed and the core ptr being assigned by the scene class before.
Only the constructors and others of its RAII type
06:45
<wakely-url-here>
I once tried using Pascal and camelCase but I found it quite weak.
Yeah they don't compile that well
For example, the difference between camelback and camelBack
BaRtEk_-casE
06:46
Where camelback is a variable and camelBack is the class that inherits from backpack
google so good
teach me your ways
For me, I've been doing hobby programming for 8 years now and I've still yet to converge on a naming convention for my stuff.
@Rapptz lol
@Mysticial Welp that settles things.
@Mysticial Yet alone learning C++
06:47
@Rapptz Never noticed that was him.
Oh I see.
Don't use UPPERCASE for non-macro stuff.
Also:
Why is my comment starred? Was it bad or good?
For types I use either TitleCase or type_t depending on how complicated the type is. For method names, I use either under_scores or TitleCase depending on the number of times I've sneezed that day. For local variables I always use under_scores.
I can't tell whether I'm being supported or mocked half the time in Lounge.
It's embarrassing.
When in doubt, assume you're being supported
06:48
I did find snake_case easier to read.
@Mysticial I'm pretty ambivalent about conventions these days.
Speaking of _t, I noticed that we have std::underlying_type_t now. Lovely isn’t it?
I don't even mind too much about using libraries that use a different convention. I anything, it helps recognize library calls
@VictorLopez Yeah I finally came to the conclusion that all variables should be of some variable of snake_case
@ParkYoung-Bae fry.jpeg
06:49
I just follow the convention set forth by the language's standard library.
@Cinch Both are embarrassing in the Lounge.
@Cinch The problem here goes with variable declarations in where constructor takes c_variable and assigns variable(c_variable)
@Rapptz Personally, I have more gripes about my own namespace
What about functions?
void my_function(const foo& f_variable){ variable = f_variable; } ?
@VictorLopez usually my functions all start with verbs.
06:50
@Cinch what the hell. How about conTrived, vs. conTriVed?
i.e. if you can see:
STAHP THE BIKE SHEDDING
a person can only shed so many bikes in his lifetime
@sehe Start bike shredding!
the functions all start with verbs
all the variables are nouns
06:52
@Cinch main
@LucDanton Star bike shodding!
@ParkYoung-Bae main is an adjective.
All fun shun starts with herbs
main is also a noun
And therefore not a verb. QED.
06:53
@sehe I am yet to see an actual bikeshed to be honest.
main is also a homonym of Maine.
We are being enlightened here.
I should be working
@MarkGarcia Well. That's because they couldn't decide on the colour, obviously. Zing.
should you
we've already wasted an hour bikeshedding
06:54
Can you sell out my engine now?
nop
@Rapptz Well here's a question I have for you since I know you do frameworks
I see no question.
ITT Rapptz does frameworks
Can we contribute into GPL together?
06:55
Mar 16 at 22:22, by sehe
Learning things isn't about impressing people with how much semi-related stuff you can spit out per minute
@ParkYoung-Bae I don't even know what that means
How might I remove the dependency on Boost.Any? It's a header-only thing, so it should be removable. But it's still popping up in the compile time for the example program.
@Cinch Now you even stopped making any sense without being ashamed. ^
@Rapptz Me neither hence my amusement
@Cinch Just google my answers. It contains an Any class in ~20 lines of code
06:55
@VictorLopez I don't touch GPL code without parental permission.
6
@sehe That's not the point.
The point is to learn how to hide dependencies within libraries.
And to learn how to do it to learn how other people do it.
@Cinch Wake me up when you discovered what the point is there is no point
@sehe I'll be creating a light GUI library later as well as an exercise.
So there is a point.
> light GUI library
ahahahahaha!!!
I have no reason to believe the Boost.Any is slowing down your compile times.
06:57
@Rapptz That's not what I said.
that thing is probably the lightest thing in Boost
It's a damn lie. People don't "hide dependencies" by arguing that `main` is not a verb, because it's a homonym of Mayne or whatever. Don't move the goal posts in order to seem coherent.

Not even in libraries
@sehe I'm on a different page already.
@Rapptz Yeah I know.
> Don't move the goal posts in order to seem coherent.
@Rapptz SDL2 is not GPL, if you create code derived from it under GPL that would make sense. Also, what are your considerations for "lightweight"?
06:58
What I'm saying is that I already use it in compile time for the static library but I don't want to have to have the Boost.Any headers on hand for the final program.
There are no GUI libraries for C++ that can be used in a standard way.
@Cinch Literally impossible.
Hence the fact about the GPL license.
@Rapptz But SDL, for example, is dependent on many different things and yet I only have to include SDL.h and its libraries.
@Cinch What else do you have?
06:59
That's not hiding anything.
@VictorLopez I literally have only Boost.Any.
I just want to make it so that the user doesn't need the header.
@Cinch Graphics mister.
@VictorLopez Elaborate.
If Boost.Any is part of the interface there's no way to avoid this.

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