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12:02 AM
@Mgetz Fuck me. Delphi, one of the best Windows GUI designer ever, (plus fast compiler), used to develop......... Console apps? WTF?
12:19 AM
@Borgleader You are using a terrible OS, try a new one.
yes Jeffrey is right, if you don't use Gentoo you are not hardcore enough
Back to /g/ guys.
@Veritas s/hardcore/emo/
I never really got the ubuntu hate
12:24 AM
Hmm, isn't this: github.com/Rapptz/gum/blob/master/gum/video/rectangle.hpp#L90 a violation of the SRP?
No?
Single Responsibility Principle
@Jefffrey Yes, if you're asking me
@Jefffrey Yes.
12:27 AM
Not changing it.
It's a rectangle with an outline.
furthermore it's just a bad "class" all around- nothing but getters and setters really.
@Rapptz Boo
the only function of note could and indeed should be a free function as it doesn't do anything with any private state (quite implied since there is no meaningful private state)
Boo you.
It mixes geometric info with styling info
12:28 AM
-1
Q: Can someone adept in java please grade my Stanford Programming Methodology CS106A Assignment 1

theconfusedbroomI'm "taking" the course via youtube. The assignment can be found here: http://web.stanford.edu/class/archive/cs/cs106a/cs106a.1124/handouts/060%20Assignment%201.pdf I'm referring to problem 2 (ctrl+f : StoneMasonKarel). Here are the conditions: • Karel starts at 1st Avenue and 1st Street, fac...

The geometric information is rect not rectangle.
rectangle is purely drawable.
I don't think the code or design will make sense to anyone who doesn't use SDL anyway.
You know what? I think you're right
I was misled by the name
SDL's naming scheme is terrible.
The thing should not be called rectangle IMO
I'm not sure what you'd call it.
I haven't worked on this for a long time anyway (it was initially a private repository)
12:32 AM
render_rectangle or something
drawable_rectable or something. rectangle should be the geometric shape, which is rect
Not changing it.
there's not enough time to fix everything that needs changing.
Shut up pups.
12:33 AM
I never understood SRP anyway
I may be OK with keeping its name if it was in a drawables namespace
It's literally in a video subdirectory.
But I'm not sure
The video subdirectory also contains rect
Yeah blame SDL for that.
Anyway it's your call of course
12:34 AM
I tried to stick with SDL's consistency or lack there of
lol I am glad I don't make my projects public
You should.
Criticism is good.
While others are bad of course.
@Rapptz What? That was a statement in support of your position.
Of course criticism is good
I read that as "Your code is so bad that there isn't enough time to fix everything"
12:35 AM
@Jefffrey It's not that complicated
@Rapptz No, I meant in the general case, for everybody.
@AndyProwl It's ambiguous IMHO
there's a bunch of stuff I'd like to fix for Wide but can't really find the time.
and my code at work.
@Jefffrey To a certain extent, yes
and my predecessor's code at work.
12:36 AM
But sometimes you only get little time to work on something and not everything is as it should and you know it :p
I haven't touched this code in a long time because I felt like it was going nowhere
@AndyProwl I think that it's defined as "a principle is a reason for change" by the original author. Which makes it even more ambiguous than just "principle".
what kinda ruined it for me was event handling too
there was no sane way to make it pretty-ish
@Jefffrey Pretty much. Uncle Bob (the original author) has pretty good videos about it in his Clean Code series
@Puppy FWIW I agree with this.
12:38 AM
I watched a lot of them. And I have weird feelings against him.
I think the videos on SRP are quite good
Extract Till You Drop and stuff
Like he says cool things and really convinces you, but when you get down to coding and try to apply what you learned, you realize that the real world is not as simple as pictured.
It's not, that's true - but personally I managed to apply those ideas
But the reason why some of the stuff is private, like the rect stuff is because you're meant to use the position and size member functions.
Wasn't always simple
12:39 AM
@Jefffrey The problem with SRP in some ways is that "responsibility" can be vague in some ways.
and the colour stuff is private because I have a weird notion of consistency
@Puppy Yup
I don't really like mixing private and public fields for some odd reason
Consistency, I guess
But it's a false motivation IMO
I always take out this "simple" example: some complicated data structure representing some object to be drawn to the screen. The drawing part should not go inside it, but should be in some different module.
12:40 AM
it suits me as odd tbh
Problem is: what if the drawing function depends on the implementation of it?
but it's just an internal thing if anything
for instance sometimes I just use only structs and don't make anything private when prototyping.
@Jefffrey In principle it shouldn't. Why would the drawing function care about the implementation? In general it should provide a visual representation of the object's salient state, or part of it
@AndyProwl Eh, take a snake. Your snake object, you want it to be abstract. So there's no reason for you to let the only data out "the list of segments". And the drawing function needs that list of segments to draw the segments.
12:43 AM
@Jefffrey Heh, that's a good point, and that's why I think we need non-intrusive polymorphism
In that case the draw() function is a member only because it needs to be virtual
In C++ you can make it a friend function, but at that point you might just as well make it part of the snake interface.
Not because it needs to see the implementation
@Jefffrey Ah, wait maybe I misunderstood your scenario
In the case of the snake object, you need to know where the snake is. It's part of its relevant state IMO. You don't need to expose the individual segments, but it does make sense to expose the individual cells it occupies. And that's all the drawing function needs.
@AndyProwl The only thing the snake is is a list of segments in this scenario.
12:46 AM
@Jefffrey thanks for the !help
@Jefffrey I imagine a list of cells, but we're probably thinking about the same thing
So you might as well just make the snake a struct snake { std::vector<cell> segments; }
The snake object per se only deals with how the snake moves of 1 step
@Jefffrey No, because that would allow clients to modify the segments freely, which you don't want
So it adjusts the head and the tail.
@AndyProwl Yeah, so the only thing snake is providing is invariance.
Not any encapsulation whatsoever.
@Jefffrey Yes
Encapsulation is there to guarantee the invariants
12:48 AM
At that point there's no private data ever.
snake will have functions move(direction dir), grow(direction dir), and get_occupied_cells() or something
If you think about it.
There is
The vector is private
I mean, data that you can't get a copy out of.
Clients can't clear it at their own will, they can't insert elements to the middle, etc
12:49 AM
Data that you don't expose from the interface.
Have you ever written a snake game?
The data you expose is a list of segments. How you implement that list is the detail. Could very well be just a list of segments.
You should write a snake game.
@Jefffrey I don't remember having written a snake game but I can imagine how I'd write one
@Jefffrey Sounds like too much work.
While we're on OO topics, how is dependency injection traditionally done in C++ if not the same sort of interface-based constructor injection as C#?
12:50 AM
I think I'm going to write a snake game, it should be fun for a small evening project and now that I am sick I got the time.
That's one place I see those virtual concepts being handy.
@chris I usually do it that way
@Nooble Are you being sarcastic?
Because it's 2 years I'm writing mine.
For templates, you basically get a seam for free, but I refrain from templates normally
And I'm at the same point I was 2 years ago.
12:52 AM
@Jefffrey No, I just suck. I wouldn't even know where to start.
Sometimes I use std::function if I need a seam for one function only
So I don't have to define a separate interface
I see. ABC interfaces just seem a lot less elegant in C++ :/
Sometimes instead of constructor injection I pass the collaborator as an argument to the function
@chris Yeah
@Jefffrey Does it have special features?
And of course the equivalent DI containers are much crappier
Like you need to give the signature.
IoC things you mean?
12:53 AM
Yes
@AndyProwl I'm never sure about those.
I never use those, even the few times I happen to work with C#
Maybe I should try it in C++, again
(in fact I don't know C# very much so it might be my bad)
@Jefffrey Snake?
12:54 AM
Yeah
Hmm...
@Jefffrey I wanted to make a game with Cinder, I think I know what game now
You should.
Those containers are interesting in that some people love them and some think they're way too complicated.
It's definitely an interesting project.
12:55 AM
I was thinking of something fancier actually, but thinking of it, it's probably wiser to start with something more basic
I don't have much experience with them, but I've done a fair bit of reading at least.
I did some reading too last year and the impression I got was negative
To be fair, I don't remember exactly what I disliked that much
But the end result is that I discarded them as a tool
The only reason I would like to try it in C++ is because it was originally meant for C++, and because it's kind of something I feel I owe it to Pawnguy.
I imagine in C++, you could have a compile-time map of the interfaces to concrete types and do a compile-time powerset with SFINAE to deduce the constructor without a signature given.
12:57 AM
@Jefffrey With the way snake works, you can probably just make a grid of squares and change their colors to animate it.
That would be fun, but kind of impractical.
@Jefffrey You owe?
Yeah
I'm going to have the chance to get some C++ OO practice next term.
@Nooble Not the one I'm thinking about.
12:58 AM
@chris I appreciate that you put "SFINAE" and "fun" in separate sentences :P
OO Design Patterns/C++ part 2 course
@Jefffrey How will you do it?
@Jefffrey How come?
Do you know where google summer of code takes place? Or is everything over the internet?
@AndyProwl We were doing it together the first time we talked about it.
12:59 AM
@Jefffrey Ah, I see
@Nooble I was thinking something like free 2d
Not in a grid
Next Jam => Snake
Actually
We could have a snake-only jam
The Snake thingy is kind of a meme in here, actually.
When Pawnguy started it, a whole bunch of others did too, all together.
@Jefffrey So your snake will have complete freedom then?
AFAIK nobody finished it.
@Nooble Kind of
1:00 AM
I'm not sure I know all of the rules of snake
are there walls?
There can be walls
You can't hit the walls right?
And if you go outside on the left, you appear on the right
and viceversa
Does MGS count as Snake?
Same for top and down
1:01 AM
And you die if you hit the walls, correct?
Or yourself
In the classic snake there are no walls.
Right
And every time you eat an apple you grow by a fixed size?
Just a simple AxB square and a random item every time you eat one.
Yes
@AndyProwl Some versions have the snake wrap around, i.e. toroidal geometry.
1:02 AM
that's the classic version I think
Nah, it's Snake 3D
Then some versions have both walls and spaces you can go through to come out the other side :v
That was much more complicated.
1:03 AM
@LucDanton I'm not sure how to picture that
There were cells that slowed you down, and shit.
Like, you're hitting a wall and the snake deviates?
no the walls are lethal
the spaces are (bits of the) sides without walls
Jeffrey I love that game
I'm too stupid to understand
1:05 AM
I see where the "Python experts" starboard comment came from now.
I guess I'll try snake 2D first and then snake 3d with euclidean geometry and then maybe I will see how other geometries can be used
Oh but snake in 3D means I have to use matrices :(
Make snake in space
6DOF controls
I wanted to write a space game actually
That was my initial idea, but starting with something humbler might make sense
Me too, but probably more 4x than flight stuff
1:07 AM
What is 4x?
4X is a genre of strategy-based video and board games in which players control an empire and "eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate". The term was first coined by Alan Emrich in his September 1993 preview of Master of Orion for Computer Gaming World. Since then, others have adopted the term to describe games of similar scope and design. 4X games are noted for their deep, complex gameplay. Emphasis is placed upon economic and technological development, as well as a range of non-military routes to supremacy. Games can take a long time to complete since the amount of micromanagement needed to...
Yep found it thank you
I was thinking about that too
I never actually remember what it expands to
As a second game idea though, not space-related
But it's Civ-like stuff
1:09 AM
Last night I wrote some notes on a sketchpad about the possible game, but when I looked back at it today I thought "well that sucks"
UGH trying to open an existing animation clip in Unity and it just doesn't fucking do anything
One of the things I like of the Jams is that there's no time for overthinking and perfectionism, which I find really hard to get rid of
I know right
> no time for overthinking and perfectionism
Jesus christ I'm trying to do a simple alpha animation but I guess it'll be easier to just fucking update the value from script than to use this goddamn built-in animation machinery
1:11 AM
It's what cuts most of my initiatives
@AndyProwl Very true.
Especially that it doesn't look linear which is a bag of :what:
same
@AndyProwl How about we set a 7 days deadline, and by that time we have to make a Snake game?
Are you in?
@Jefffrey I'm in
Disclaimer: it will be a very sucky one
1:12 AM
So, like, let's make it by sunday of next week. Because I can't start until saturday I believe
The koala would also like to be in.
@Jefffrey Deal
Everybody can be in
Wonderful.
Let the koala in
1:13 AM
I'll try to make it as simple as possible.
For the space game stuff I need to write some kind of design doc, the adhoc jam-like "let's just start coding" thing doesn't really work
I tend to overthink abstraction.
@CatPlusPlus The design/planning part is the best part IMO
Most fun
Unfortunately, for me it tends to never end
It doesn't involve coding so yeah
Or to end at the point where I say "this is too much work or too complicated and maybe not even that much fun, fuck it"
1:15 AM
@AndyProwl :)
I plan to do the thing in stages
@Jefffrey Same here. My snake will be made of squares. I suck immensely at graphics
there are plenty of real cheap places to get the art for your game, but you still need to tell them exactly what you would like to have
Like the first stage would be just "you have a planet and some numbers and the numbers can grow hooray space cookies"
Let's say by 1200UTC of Sunday 5
1:17 AM
But it's a deliverable
Agile space game development
The first stage would be getting something that's free & useable
1200 is in a 24 hour clock obviously. So it's 12 of afternoon.
if you even get to the stage of releasing it, then it would be worth to spend a bit money on it
lol contracting artists for jam game
1:18 AM
@Jefffrey obviously
I don't care about selling anything
A former colleague of mine left our company and started his own video game company
@Jefffrey You mean 2015-04-05T12:00:00
They're working on mobile games with Unity
1:18 AM
rip
I have plenty of mobile apps that I programmed myself
He was part of the Mafia team before joining our company
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the full date&time format honestly, just the date.
Uh
Yeah nobody needs anything at specific times
Pawnguy's Jam: the themes are "snake" and the deadline is 2015-04-05T12:00:00.
7
1:20 AM
^ Can we pin that?
rip pawnguy
If you even write a good enough snake game, I can pay for the graphics using the graphic designer that I used quite a bit & would recommand ... but 90% of the chance is that you would not get that far. With that said, he's a bit slow though, like a week to get 10 pictures done
@CatPlusPlus What happened to him?
He went back to his home planet
1:21 AM
My snake game is going to horribly suck, be buggy, and not worth a dime
But it will help me learn and will hopefully involve some fun
@Nooble No one knows
The mistery of Pawnguy
It seems nothing tragic happened, though - he was seen active after officially quitting or something
@AndyProwl He just got his account removed.
1:23 AM
It's fancy.
@AndyProwl there you go
@LucDanton lol thank you! But is that what you meant by "toroidal geometry"?
Wait
omg I got it. Thank you
Is it really toroidal though?
I guess it doesn't matter. I more or less understood
Topologically speaking (hence, no).
1:26 AM
Yeah I meant topologically speaking. If both up/down and left/right wrap up, it should form a sphere shouldn't it?
@Jeff what will you write your snake game in?
I think he said C++.
@AndyProwl Consider the very top or bottom. It’s a line of many points. On a sphere, a pole is just one point.
@AndyProwl I wanted to write in C++, but I've recently tried and decided against and I don't remember why.
So I guess I'll go with the classical Haskell.
On a sphere, if you cross over the North pole you do not come out the South pole.
A clever observation
1:29 AM
Or maybe Elm
well speaking of 4X that is something that comes up in e.g. Civ :)
@LucDanton OK, I see that, but a toroid's section is a circle. Doesn't that suffer from the same problem?
(in fact it's a circle even seen from above)
@AndyProwl That maps to lines of longitude on the map. What of it?
@LucDanton Even on a toroid, you don't end up at an opposite end when you move in any direction, or do you?
Maybe I'm just confused about these things
If you go to the left (or West), you eventually come back down to where you started from. If you go up (or North), the same. That’s what 'crossing over' is on the map.
1:33 AM
Isn't that what happens when moving in the same direction on a spherical globe too?
If you pick a privileged section and a privileged 'seam' (both circles as you mentioned) those make out the borders of our map. They each get two opposite borders.
@AndyProwl No, if you make one more step from the North pole you do not come out the South pole. I get what you mean though.
@LucDanton But if you make one step on the surface of a toroid, you also don't come up at the opposite end
Just to be clear are we talking about this shape?
It's called a Klein space!
31 mins ago, by Andy Prowl
I'm too stupid to understand
Not even considering that my lack of brightness tends to reach its peak around 2:30 AM
1:37 AM
Yeah. I think the missing piece is that we are dealing with a map (or whatever the terminology is). For yours to make sense (e.g. let’s say the top and down borders are the North pole), you’re breaking the rules because you have many points making up the North pole and you presumably map everything twice (because as you go from North to North you are crossing over a longitude and it’s opposite longitude line).
@AndyProwl Yes.
> I had a wonderful idea
As long as you follow the relationship between 'longitude' and 'latitude' from our map to the torus you’re good to go.
I still don't understand the torus thing, but I'm considering making a spherical snake game
Like, a snake that moves on a globe
That would be interesting
I wonder how hard that would be
1:40 AM
@LucDanton It's called a Klein space!
The game Asteroids is an example of a 2D Klein space
> A topological space on which a group of homeomorphic mappings of the space onto itself is defined, with the property that there exist for any two points A and B of the space a transformation of this group taking A to B.
Yep, clear
@ParkYoung-Bae It’s definitely a rectangle!
The more I think about it the more the spherical snake game sounds like a hell of an effort
Elements of the snake would have to be expressed in 3D polar coordinates
Ask @sehe for tips
Is he into geometry?
I'm an idiot
1:45 AM
:grin:
You're an idiot too :D
Idiot friends!
You're glad to have them aren't you
GIT KEEPS FAILING TO SYNC
I'm going to lose my mind.
Yay it worked!
1:57 AM
@LucDanton Are you asking me if that PDF is correct or trying to debase my comment with a non sequitur ad hominem sic transit gloria mundi?
hahaha
you forgot ex machina
@ParkYoung-Bae Translates to: thus passes the glory of the world to a man, it does not follow
well it was really more of an idle statement
@LucDanton That's what I thought
1:58 AM
@Nooble Google Translate's gotten worse.
@Nooble ipsam agnoscimus ex quolibet eius attributo
Everytime I use python I'm reminded how fucking amazing slicing and negative indices are
@Rapptz Clearly so.
@Rapptz tempus fuckit
@ParkYoung-Bae "merely recognize any of his attributes"?
2:00 AM
I don't know
Possibly yes
taking quotes from Descartes
if he were alive he'd sue you
His quotes are now public domain!
but his feelings aren't
RIP Latin
Requiescat in pace
> If everyone reading this right now gave $20, our fundraiser would be done within an hour.
Requiescat in pace in pipere.
2:04 AM
In linguistics, language death (also language extinction, linguistic extinction or linguicide, and rarely also glottophagy) occurs when a language loses its last native speaker. Language death is a process that affects speech communities where the level of linguistic competence that speakers possess of a given language variety is decreased, eventually resulting in no native or fluent speakers of the variety. Language death may affect any language idiom, including dialects and languages. Language death should not be confused with language attrition (also called language loss), which describes the...
Oh. It's that time of the year again.
Quare sic stupri github illud? Nihil opus!
githubbus
Feb 22 at 0:45, by Lightness Races in Orbit
The quality of English in this Lounge has deteriorated dramatically over the past few weaks.
Deterioratated
2:09 AM
@LucDanton Awesome, I finally got it
How freaking slow is Nmap jeez.
Kind of
@AndyProwl Is it now Klein in your mind
@ParkYoung-Bae My mind logically accepts it but doesn't really "see" it yet
i submitted feedback to google over google keep
I'm so excited I wonder if someone will read it
2:14 AM
Nmap needs to speed up.
@AndyProwl I think it's better to simply understand the maths than trying to map it onto something representable to the human mind
@ParkYoung-Bae I have troubles reasoning at a purely formal level. I need some intuition if I want to get a solid understanding
Like, without the PDF it would have probably never clicked for me
Andy Noobwl
I think the intuition works fine for 2D, but in higher dimensioned-spaces it becomes harder (hence my mention of Asteroids)
lol
all right, time for sleep
Good night :)
Dream of high-order Klein spaces
2:21 AM
I'm afraid I will. Night
@ParkYoung-Bae Good night.
@ParkYoung-Bae I've never heard of a starfish turning into a koala.

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