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12:00
@BartekBanachewicz You don't need English grammar. You don't need any English words other than programming-specific terms (many languages just adopt the English terms as their own anyway).
I can instantly, with no mental effort, recognize a function foo when I see it, even if I have no idea what it does. I can't do that with other alphabets
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh right, the mixture of Polish grammar and English terms
Yeah, natural language is amazingly flexible.
I agree that it makes a lot of sense for people who speak English to also use English when coding, because that does plug into a very large community and across much of the world there is a consensus towards using English when coding. Where I disagree is that we should actively discourage people who do not speak English from coding in their own languages
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I use it quite a lot when talking, but people give me weird looks then
and you know what I do then? The best thing on this planet.
12:01
can't you ultimately write for your target audience and call it a day
I start to talk in Polish
In real, proper Polish, with terms translated.
@BartekBanachewicz Man, we're missing out, if that's really "the best thing on this planet"
It never takes more than 30 seconds to make people beg to go back to original terms
@jalf My thoughts exactly. And if someone is learning programming and CS stuff, if he also can learn english it will be a huge benefit to him
And it's always hilarious for me how their beliefs about using "their" language shatter.
12:03
@BartekBanachewicz the fact that languages have to be learned has zero to do with the fact that people can usefully blog in their native language.
Even about programming. You may say that you don't like it and think it's strange. There are valid arguments to be found for this opinion. Just not the ones you are making
The downside to this is that now I'm used to the english terminology and I can't translate back in french some expressions.
@AlexM. According to Bartek, no. You have to force unreasonable requirements on your audience.
@Rerito it's not that I can't translate, it's that the translations aren't good enough
We had a single professor at uni who insisted on using danish terms for everything. That just got ridiculous :)
@BartekBanachewicz That's what I mean by this
12:04
@jalf yeah unis like doing that
@BartekBanachewicz Do you realize it actually means "add/move into to IP register if the zero flag is set"
it stops being hilarious if they require it on exams
mine didn't, fortunately, so I wrote all exams using english terms
@BartekBanachewicz vOv.
7 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@BartekBanachewicz Pretty sure it's your shortcoming, not the language's.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think I'm that bad at translations. In fact, I haven't yet seen in my life a post using translated terms that would be pleasant to read
Or I don't know the "official" french term anymore so when I translate it from english to french... :|
12:05
It's irky. It feels wrong. It makes me think.
speaking of language and recognizing words, "woof" in danish is 'vov', so whenever one of you goes vOv, my first thought is "why is he pretending to be a dog?"
@BartekBanachewicz Notice the "me" in that sentence.
@BartekBanachewicz thinking does often feel wrong :)
I actually have to translate from polish to english to understand what the fuck did the author mean
Notice the "I" in that sentence.
12:06
Still trying to remember whether I have taught by this guy who used to be teaching at the University of Sydney & recently became the Greek finance minister. I remember I changed major from marketing to economics because there was this awesome lecturer who used to tell greek mythologies in economic lectures because moral of the stories were underlying economic theories ... that & also I hated marketing people
You're the one that feels disconnected from Polish.
@R.MartinhoFernandes What, you mean that there are people out there who have different opinions than mine?
I have such a short memory
@BartekBanachewicz No, I mean that that it feels weird to you doesn't mean Polish is not suitable to discuss it.
@BartekBanachewicz They're only wonky, because you're not a native English speaker. I've read programming books in German, English, Dutch. And some online resources in French; they're all the same. A "pointer" is not more formally defined than "Zeiger" or whatever. It's just conveniently disconnected from your pre-existing meanings in your mother tongue
12:08
Exactly.
@sehe okay, that sounds interesting
that might be why I find listening to Polish music annoying too
Xeo
Xeo
Ever since reading about programming in English, using German to describe coding stuff feels awkward to me.
@BartekBanachewicz What's way more interesting is that you seem to have assumed that all English speakers somehow are more attuned to programming, because they already have the words :)
@Bob it's from yesterday
12:09
@BartekBanachewicz I recognize that. A lot.
user862319
:(
@sehe you don't like Polish music either? :p
@sehe I uh... yes, I did that.
inb4 it's wrong
@jalf ZIng
I've spent some years actively trying to imagine how movie scripts/song lyrics would sound to native English speakers... It dawned on me that it's really handy to be able to move to a different language
E.g. for chatting in a lounge
@BartekBanachewicz It's natural. It's inevitable.
But it's not necessary to keep falling into the trap with some critical thought :)
Yeah, fortunately it's written here... Otherwise you'ld be hearing my awesome shitty accent
12:11
:D
@Xeo It felt awkward reading it (two books actually, one on 3D programming - bought in 1988 or so, the other [exceptional c++])
@Rerito well, that's what unconferences are for :p
Xeo
Xeo
@jalf Or Mumble
@BartekBanachewicz what about jnz
@Rerito we used to mumble
@sehe Jump if Not Zero?
@BartekBanachewicz Question? What's the difference between jne and jnz
12:14
(I really don't remember what those do other than trying to resolve them into words)
16
Q: Difference between JE/JNE and JZ/JNZ

QuasarDonkeyIn x86 assembly code, are JE and JNE exactly the same as JZ and JNZ?

they operate in the same way, but they mean something else (to a human reader)
well, the accepted answer says it all
I'm such an asshole :')
every now and then I edit the titles on the questions I answer
so that they're more attractive
and get more hits
decrease the value stored in the C register by 1
jump if it achieved zero

compare the values of ...
jump if they aren't equal
conventions... That's not the "language" though
Xeo
Xeo
12:16
@AlexM. That's... not being an asshole. As long as the title still describes the question.
Bringing in more views is good
well I kinda am an asshole because I only do it so that I get more chances for upvotes lol
bad motivation, good effect vOv
Long answer: yes. — Hans Passant Jan 10 '13 at 20:58
lol
too lazy to do it for questions I don't answer
@BartekBanachewicz you know, you're right
I'm actually the good guy!
it's sort of like the ends justify the means but not really
almost inverted
So, maybe I should get some work done
12:22
@jalf We have so much in common! :P
user4202350
Good Morning
@AndyProwl This might relate to the whole room :p
@Abyx I'll be abusing them a lot more often when I witness harassment, hate speech, that kind of thing.
7
@ShaU this room is even more hostile towards help vampires; thread carefully
dat pun
12:25
@sehe Oh, it totally is the language.
@R.MartinhoFernandes mmm. I meant "meaning" there. I'm busy :(
@sehe Think of it like poetry, for instance. A superficial read may be enough for some people, but others will get the deeper meanings that were imbued in it. The computer is the superficial reader. The programmer is the poetry enthusiast.
I just compared x86 assembly to poetry.
9
I'm sure you can find some asm haikus if you try hard enough
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Better than comparing it to poultry.
12:28
I tried to write poetry out of nVidia GPU instruction names and this is harder than I thought DADD, ISAD. COS ADA BRK BRA. DADD, IMAD.
@Rerito eh, good to hear I'm not alone
@R.MartinhoFernandes That particular message which you replied to, had no harassment or hate. Please consider resigning from your owner position before you harm other users for no reason. Thank you.
> If you find yourself consistently giving too many fucks about trivial shit that bothers you — your ex-girlfriend’s new Facebook picture, how quickly the batteries die in the TV remote, missing out on yet another 2-for-1 sale on hand sanitizer — chances are you don’t have much going on in your life to give a legitimate fuck about. And that’s your real problem. Not the hand sanitizer.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Completely agreed. This is a keeper
@BartekBanachewicz Funny.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Please do
@Abyx muhuhuhuh. Complete with fake tears?
12:29
> no reason
well I just have that feeling that the robot got broken and became dangerous.
I have designer tinfoil hats for sale if you want.
@Mgetz I have no idea what that is, but it looks cool
@Abyx And no one was kicked for that particular message.
12:32
@Abyx good luck with that
Will these two examples produce identical binaries? pastebin.com/JWM0J8e0
> futuristic
> steam
@HalfEvil Ask your compiler.
Steampunk is a subgenre of science fiction and fantasy literature and art that commonly features some aspect of steam-powered machinery, especially in a setting inspired by industrialized Western civilization during the 19th century. Steampunk works are often set in an alternative history of the 19th century's British Victorian era or American "Wild West", in a post-apocalyptic future during which steam power has maintained mainstream use, or in a fantasy world that similarly employs steam power. Steampunk perhaps most recognisably features anachronistic technologies or retro-futuristic inventions...
@Mgetz I drove one of those in FF XIII
12:34
^want
@HalfEvil gcc.godbolt.org (short answer: yes)
So, I used the wrong version for the diff
@sehe thanks I'll try and see :)
12:36
monologue extérieur
@R.MartinhoFernandes meh. "threatening with a gun is not a crime because no one was killed" - "no, the kick button is not a gun". I thought you'd say something more clever.
welp. I suppose I learned something in the process
so I didn't actually waste all that time
right.
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's what ISIS say
I need to eat something
12:41
@chmod711telkitty @Abyx Y'all better get out then. This evil murderous dictator is staying.
2
@sehe That sounds classy doesn't it? :p
@R.MartinhoFernandes You seriously don't have to justify kicking telshitty; abyx might have a voice in that, but it's kinda singular
@BartekBanachewicz But in the end it's like beheading the hydra
sure kick me, I am the only chick here, by kicking me, you are display incredulous amount of sexism in stackoverflow chatrooms
During the whole time she is here, and I think I remember it from the very beginning, it was disruptive, non-constructive behaviour that hasn't brought anything of value here
12:44
maybe because I am a woman & I behave differently?
It was only trolling, provocative images, heroic lack of proper argumentation, misrepresenting and misreading arguments, and all other kinds of unacceptable behaviour
Trolling has no gender
@chmod711telkitty I think there was a different reason
@chmod711telkitty lol the irony
> you are display incredulous amount of sexism in stackoverflow chatrooms
> maybe because I am a woman & I behave differently?
@Rerito some trolls give up when they start being sad
kitty is an exception
12:45
@Rerito yeah! French FTW
@BartekBanachewicz Indeed, that comment was sooooo sexist
protip: don't be an asshole, whatever your gender
@chmod711telkitty If you don't know the reason, you can ask for it. You don't have to launch an attack on my character.
You'll be out again if you continue.
@chmod711telkitty bwahahahaha
@BartekBanachewicz hush
@BartekBanachewicz there's a lot of change in that. It has been pretty bad, agreed
user1804599
I want to play video games.
12:46
Permission Granted
TIL kicking trolls that happen to be women is sexist
@R.MartinhoFernandes are you seeing things again? it was not addressed to you and "kick me" is not an attack
"TIL" - you've been living under a rock. s/sexist/racist/ or s/women/christian/ etc.
@Abyx But "I have a feeling he became dangerous" is, as well as other things
Nov 17 '14 at 21:02, by Bartek Banachewicz
it's cool to be offended these days
Sometimes the comments are so strongly unappropriate I just "disable" my brain. BS overload I guess
12:48
@sehe it was my message, not her
1st, I am not doing anything that's not allowed here, 2) according to your theory, any women should be allowed to be raped because she's a bitch?
@Abyx "you are display incredulous amount of sexism in stackoverflow chatrooms" is.
lol, while we're at it
Jun 21 '13 at 10:46, by Bartek Banachewicz
I am recently more and more offended by begin and end :v
@BartekBanachewicz well, some people have better reasons to be offended than others. :p
the lounge is in trivial issue dissecting mood today I see
12:49
Oh...
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you know about plural you?
user1804599
begin and end are nice keywords.
My... That one was powerful
@Abyx No, I don't. Stop trying to justify this.
I was the one that kicked her.
Twice now.
user1804599
lol abyx
12:50
@R.MartinhoFernandes for exactly what reason?
Bring it up with the mods if you want.
it's not like we actively weren't trying to get rid of her back in 2013
and I mean that was before you could kick people
@AlexM. disagree. She stopped trolling, pretty much some time. And then she missed us and came back to ... basically lurk (and post less intrusive images).
She did some (pretty biased...) self-reflective postings for a while. And then she felt comfortable again to sometimes pick up the troll game, but always trailing behind the leads of say LRIO and others with that particular fashion
user1804599
trollshitty?
And if you do, you may want to bring up the one time I actually seriously and consciously abused those powers.
12:50
Thing is, she'll never get it
I don't think telkitty counts as the room troll anymore.
@Abyx Harassment.
Anytime she's being kicked or mauled at for her bullshit she goes like "I'm thinking out of the box, I'm so clever you can't understand"
So irritating
@sehe Well frankly we kinda upgraded the troll shields
Also
user1804599
12:51
I feel good.
Like a sex machine
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see.
@sehe I was being sarcastic
but I'm sure you know that
12:52
@sehe I agree
@AndyProwl Good.
@Rerito but then again, puppy bragging about his ingenuity is also annoying
user1804599
Perl 6 grammars are neat.
@Rerito lol
that being said, puppy isn't even remotely comparable to telkitty, of course
12:53
@рытфолд It's funny how Perl6 is just a different language. It's just recognizable as Perl because of all the interpunction abuse
@BartekBanachewicz EBALLSTOBIG
Puppy has valuable knowledge he shares in his own ways... Sometimes
On the whole, I have no problem with telkitty. Occasionally she decides to go full troll, which I have no patience for, but let's be honest: she's not just "the room troll" any more, and hasn't been for a long time
mmm shares?
Divulges or dispenses... Like a smack over the head :)
well I agree that what she does isn't exactly trolling
12:54
@BartekBanachewicz sometimes it is. Just not all the time
but it's a profound showoff of dumbness, which is pretty much as annoying
What the robot is smacking her around for now absolutely is
@sehe In his ways... Hehe
@BartekBanachewicz Many people do.
either way, if we could get rid of her I'd vote for that
one people less on the plonk list
user1804599
12:55
@sehe still as beautiful!
@R.MartinhoFernandes also, thanks for taking this fight. :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am not playing a police like you do, and I have no right to judge if other SO members were offended or not. It's up to her to report it or not.
@Abyx Robot is a room owner and he has every right to moderate it. It's not playing police, it's doing his job.
3
and so, if you've no right to judge, I don't know why are you even bringing this up
@sehe really? didn't notice any of that
last time I remember unplonking her temporarily
@jalf although, "smacking around" isn't a good way to describe the situation. More like "pinning down one over-reached utterance" and then watching her/some other belligerents do the smacking herself (by flailing and acting all wound up)
She failed to realize it was just an utterance pinned down, not an actual limb. She can move and breathe freely
12:57
@BartekBanachewicz it is not "moderation". he just kicked her because he wanted it
@AlexM. The latter might explain the former
@Abyx because she wanted it FTFY
was when she started telling Robot IIRC that he's not a good fit for Google anyway, regardless of his lack of desire to answer to their requests
and how much money she has
@AlexM. I've got my share of people plonked here. telkitty isn't one of them :)
this was a week ago or so
12:57
@BartekBanachewicz cough. You might want to unlearn this line of defense
@sehe Maybe, but hardly reaching her level so consistently, IMO.
@BartekBanachewicz even if she wanted that - that is not a valid reason. try to ask a police officer to put you in jail.
@Abyx Yes. So far I have always kicked people consciously. I never did it without wanting to.
@AndyProwl Oh well. I could make a list of people that regularly annoy me :)
But I choose to be here. Also, annoying is not a bannable offense IMO
I did kick someone once and later regretted it, but I totally wanted to originally.
12:58
@sehe You can do both things :)
10 mins ago, by chmod 711 telkitty
1st, I am not doing anything that's not allowed here, 2) according to your theory, any women should be allowed to be raped because she's a bitch?
@AndyProwl Not as comfortably, which is why I refrained form making the list
Was it yesterday or the day before? She just basically insulted the whole european community
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, I even shed a tear.

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