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11:00 AM
@chmod711telkitty I hope he has you plonked
 
Why can't the smarter one bring it to even more dumb level? Or why can't he be as experienced on being dumb?
 
@thecoshman I think it's in the rate limiting mesage...
Who flags that
 
@sehe I'd put Rust as definitely the shakier one: until recently not even syntax was frozen; the web is full of written material that has become obsolete after changes in the language; and it's comparably very hard to learn, primarily for lack of source material.
 
The fuck is that flag for
 
Xeo
@thecoshman No, it's the chocolate cheesecake.
 
11:00 AM
And who are idiots validating it :cripes:
 
@CatPlusPlus waiving, I guess
 
Am I flagged
Already
 
Not yet
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :toot toot:
robot is always right, thus I win
now I need a coffee
 
@ThePhD I commented on it.
 
11:01 AM
@sehe pls warn me k
 
@sehe is it? I'll avoid spamming again to find out :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes robor, dear, will you do one thing for the lounge: to keep xeo's weight on the record & speedily report it here when he gains substantial amount of weight?
 
Xeo
@chmod711telkitty The fuck is wrong with you?
 
Have a break.
 
can the poultry die of chicken flu already pls
 
11:03 AM
@BartekBanachewicz now consider how they are equally unviable, even though Crapskell is much older.
poultry is more than just chicken right?
 
yes
 
@thecoshman uhh
you're not even wrong.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think you mixed up first/second.
 
#Apple has $178 billion in cash; it could BUY: Uber Tesla Twitter Netflix Dropbox SnapChat Airbnb SpaceX and still have $20 billion left.
you know
 
@Rapptz Oh, you're right.
 
11:14 AM
that's the place I could work at possibly.
 
I thought GH showed most recent first.
 
with enough money to cover real R&D
 
@BartekBanachewicz you're going to be Vala Afshar's secretary? :D
oooh
 
with enough money to create their own PL from scratch
 
11:15 AM
with enough money to maintain an opensource compiler backend
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara That doesn't take much money.
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol this person does not know much about how this stuff works
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I say we create more Polands to breed more Barteks
 
@Rapptz I don't think it was meant to be taken literally
 
lol cash
 
11:17 AM
Also I made the diff from 1MB to 26LoC
 
We're all extremely excited
 
it was actually just the two changes I already made
@AMostMajestuousCapybara you should be. It's an important step for humanity
 
26 LoSC (Lines of Shitty Code) have changed
Impressive
 
it's not my code
 
@Rapptz He writes for the HuffPost.
 
11:19 AM
it's the modification to GLFW sources made in the bindings-GLFW project
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Makes sense.
 
boost::optional<int> a = 3;
shand::match(a, [](int& x) { // 有効な値を持っていれば呼ばれる
    std::cout << x << std::endl;
});
...
anyone speaks up how allowing people who don't know english to code is beneficial, I'll punch him in the face
 
Comment says "only called if it holds a valid value"
It's 2015. Learn some Nihongo.
 
@BartekBanachewicz What are you complaining about? At least it's unicode, you can gtranslate it. Not some f-ing code page.
You are not beneficial and I'd punch you in the face
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara How do you know that?
 
11:21 AM
Most of the world does not speak English, get over it
 
@BartekBanachewicz never am :D
 
I just noticed I don't have IME on this PC.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It looks like human-made gibberish
 
@thecoshman what
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara So does mojibake.
 
11:22 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Therefore it must be unicode!
 
@thecoshman Now I don't know whether you were trolling from the beginning or you really didn't get it
 
@BartekBanachewicz get what?
 
@thecoshman exactly
 
what I said about needing to consider the viability along with it's, I stand by... for now at least
 
yeah I know you stand by the weirdest spots
like Standmite
sigh
why do the headers differ.
--- glfw/include/os/darwin/glfw_config.h	Wed Jan 28 11:44:06 2015
+++ /C/PROJECTS/glfw-3.0.4-diff/include/os/darwin/glfw_config.h	Thu Jan  1 01:00:00 1970
@@ -1,84 +0,0 @@
-//
-// 3. This notice may not be removed or altered from any source
-//    distribution.
the irony.
 
11:26 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I looked up this library and almost all the comments are in English.
 
see that's universally good
 
I haven't found a single Japanese comment yet.
I don't agree with you.
 
English-speaking supremacy.
 
@Rapptz right, it having japanese comments would make it oh so much more useful for the general public
 
11:27 AM
I wrote C
 
because say is_callable<F>::value == true (引数なし)で無効な値用の関数と見なしています。
 
The actual library doesn't even have the Japanese comment.
 
wtf, stackexchange asked me if I'm a robot or not when posting an answer
 
So I don't know where you got it from
 
@Rapptz I'm not saying the actual library is bad.
 
11:28 AM
@BartekBanachewicz stop being a dick, not all code is for the 'general English speaking public'
 
I didn't say you were.
 
@Rapptz from a twitter link
 
But considering the fact it's not in the code. I don't know where you found the comment from.
 
Programmers are general English-speaking public
 
boost :: optional the pattern matching function - Faith and Brave - Let's play in C ++ http://ow.ly/I4GOr #cpp #cplusplus
 
11:29 AM
@thecoshman s/mesage/message/ yes
 
Ah dude.
That's just low.
 
@CatPlusPlus Ignoring the ones that don't, yes.
 
You really criticised a Japanese comment on a Japanese blog.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not programmers!
 
@BartekBanachewicz A page written in Japanese that has code snippets with Japanese written in it?
HOW DARE THEY
 
11:31 AM
This is not fair! this room has no female owner, I feel discriminated against!
 
@Rapptz what is? I open an interesting link, written in an english tweet, about a guy named "Faith and Brave" (totes not english), and there's FUCKING JAPANESE INSIDE
 
THINK OF THE GENERAL CHILDREN PUBLIC
 
also kicked for no reason
 
Bub.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. All over the page.
 
11:31 AM
my coffee machine arrived <3 gotta pick it up this evening
 
The TLD is literally .jp.
 
so hyped
 
@BartekBanachewicz PL are not created by money
 
@Rapptz the shortened url was .ly. I didn't notice until I opened it
@sehe by what then?
 
The preview is in Japanese.
 
11:32 AM
@BartekBanachewicz People
 
@BartekBanachewicz You should have noticed that after the very first word.
 
@sehe Hardly anyone can work on a language for free.
 
@sehe Polish people, to be precise.
 
There's fucking Japanese all over tha... oh wait, translate... there we go, I can read it now.
ya knob jokey you.
 
why write it in japanese in the first place ugh
 
11:33 AM
It's his native language.
 
@chmod711telkitty Do you want to be kicked again?
 
it uses english keywords from a library that's in english
 
why the fuck would you comment on that in japanese
it's incomprehensible for me
 
Because it's for exposition.
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, because it's Japanese.
 
11:33 AM
still this room has no female owner ... I stand correct
 
@BartekBanachewicz That may be true but hardly everyone with the right skillset would work for a ginormous company that has this kind of cash. They might just run away or start their own
 
ITT the world revolves around farttek
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes exposition to whom? People who want to read it need to know english to understand the keywords used
 
-> # cat /sys/fs/cgroup/memory/system.slice/docker-6bc0d81325a423d4d217edb0f7f81a9aa9e889a695acd0ed176ea41332620e77.scope/memory.stat
cache 4018176
rss 778240
hihih
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah. Who the fuck dares speak in languages that are incomprehensible to you
 
11:34 AM
@BartekBanachewicz No, they don't.
 
right, so "optional" is just a blurb of random characters for them
 
@BartekBanachewicz To the audience of a page that is completely written in Japanese.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you're abusing your privileges again
 
The guy's blog is in Japanese. Someone else (read: not the author) posted it on Twitter. And you are complaining that the guy's blog (read: not the person who tweeted it) is in Japanese and not English.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh man. Logic much. When I learned BASIC, GOSUB didn't need to "mean" anything.
 
11:35 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Might as well be
 
let's all use std::クトが有<int> from now on
because who cares
it's all random characters anyway
 
@BartekBanachewicz you do
 
Dude. It's his personal blog. In his native language.
 
It's keywords
 
What the hell?
 
11:35 AM
You repeat keywords verbatim
They don't need to have a meaning
 
@BartekBanachewicz why? I don't need to know the English word "integer" in order to learn what int is
 
I literally don't even.
TIL people learn keywords by remembering them as opaque letter blobs.
I need to be alone for a while. Please leave.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. It must be frustrating that you know you're sitting on a valid argument, yet seem utterly incapable of just making that argument. So, now reductio-ad-absurdum will have to do :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz I suspect that's how we all learn to read, yes
 
11:37 AM
People write assembly which is all mnemonics instead of actual words
 
"waffle" has no inherent meaning either. It's just a sequence of letters as opaque as any other. There's nothing in the composition of letters that tells me that they're delicious
 
Also POSIX
 
@CatPlusPlus they aren't meaningless.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what?
 
Your argument would make a lot more sense if you said that you have to be familiar with the latin alphabet to learn most programming languages
 
11:38 AM
I really can't understand how anyone can be this idiotic
 
@CatPlusPlus They're usually just tokens. In fact, GOSUB (in my BASIC example) wasn't even stored as text (you know, compression!)
 
@BartekBanachewicz If you know the semantics of a command, the command itself doesn't matter
 
If if is just random squiggles, you're going to struggle. If you recognize it as the character i followed by the character f then you're fine
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. They're meaningful. But they're meaning is only tenuously related to the English word they may refer to
inb4 Malbolge and APL
 
> malbolge
 
11:39 AM
@BartekBanachewicz It works fine with it.
 
you mean the language artificially designed to be impossible to write for humans
 
@BartekBanachewicz You're really terrible at argumentation.
 
I'm actually surprised you're even arguing about this.
Aren't you bilingual yourself?
 
@Rapptz well of course I am
 
@CatPlusPlus They do need meaning. But they get that meaning not by virtue of being written in English.
 
11:40 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well yes
 
@BartekBanachewicz I love how you literally jump at the opportunity to shred an argument that hasn't been made because it's easier
 
but I don't write my blog posts in English because why would I ever do anything that stupid
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's how it works in any language, of any kind.
Symbols.
That's all it is.
 
4 mins ago, by sehe
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. It must be frustrating that you know you're sitting on a valid argument, yet seem utterly incapable of just making that argument. So, now reductio-ad-absurdum will have to do :)
And counting
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but the PL keywords and functions aren't conjured out of thin air! we base them on the natural language already used by people, to make concepts like "if" automatically mappable to what we already know and use IRL
 
11:42 AM
@sehe He strawmans a lot.
 
if you cut the connection out, you surely can learn the PL, but that's much harder. Every one of the blobs you see is new to you. Not only you need to learn new semantics, you need to learn new way of describing them in words.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sure, but the concept of if exists in other languages than English too. As a Dane, I could learn to mentally map the C++ keyword if to the Danish word "hvis" if I didn't speak English. It wouldn't really hinder me
 
@BartekBanachewicz ¬_¬ you know that word 'language' in 'programming language', yeah it's not there for the fun of it.
 
that's much harder. I can't possibly imagine learning any reasonable PL not knowing English
 
@BartekBanachewicz And some use jne. So what.
 
11:43 AM
What would hinder me is if it used an alphabet I didn't know, if I couldn't even identify the symbols it was made up of
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Jump if Not Equal
 
The concept of conditionals is not in any way tied to the English word "if".
 
A PL could use pictograms for it's keywords for all I care.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, it's literally jne.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's what the mnemonic stands for
 
11:44 AM
I am surprised that have to explain how language works.
 
@jalf not really. 'if' could have happily just been '?'
 
@BartekBanachewicz And yet it doesn't grant it any inherent meaning.
 
@thecoshman Sure, but I know the character ? too. I can identify that when I see it
 
ffs we have shit like ! and ^ with real fucking meaning in C++
 
I can't do that with クトが有 because I can't identify the glyphs it is composed of
is my point
 
11:45 AM
MATHS FOR CHRIST SAKE! it's all fucking random symbols that map to no human language
 
New startup: Google Translate for code
 
Which is easily demonstrable by the fact that the equivalent opcode carries the exact same meaning, and doesn't stand for anything in particular.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not an assembly expert, but last time I checked, JNE jumps if the result of last comparison is "not equal"
 
hence my argument that the language the keywords are taken from doesn't matter, but the alphabet they're written in does
 
@BartekBanachewicz It does that even if not written jne.
 
11:46 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't understand.
 
I'm going to bed.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You should have paid attention in philosophy class. :P
 
@jalf ト(a = 2){ 有(a) } ク { が(a) } // who the fuck can't see what is going on there?
 
Philosophy of language is concerned with four central problems: the nature of meaning, language use, language cognition, and the relationship between language and reality. For continental philosophers, however, the philosophy of language tends to be dealt with, not as a separate topic, but as a part of logic (see the section "Language and continental philosophy" below). First and foremost, philosophers of language prioritize their inquiry on the nature of meaning. They seek to explain what it means to "mean" something. Topics in that vein include the nature of synonymy, the origins of meaning itself...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Assuming I ever attended one in the first place. Do you mean it's possible to create a command called "xyz" that does the same?
 
11:48 AM
It doesn't matter if it's "jne" or "xyz". You learn that it does the jump and that's that, you then know that "jne" or "xyz" does the jump
You don't ever need to learn that it was chosen because it happens to expand to jump not equal
 
For me, actually, it isn't the same if it's called "xyz" or "jne"
 
Or xywhatever
 
@BartekBanachewicz There exist already symbols with the exact same meaning that don't stand for anything in English. It's 0x75.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So how about cdr and car in lisp/scheme?
 
does this argument boil down to people perceive things differently
 
11:49 AM
Or RPLACA
 
because it looks to me like it does
 
@jalf I don't use Lisp, so I've no idea what those do.
 
Which is still my favourite Common Lisp thing
 
@AlexM. No. It boils down to Bartek doesn't understand language. I mean, language in the broadest sense possible.
@BartekBanachewicz It's head and tail.
 
lol
 
11:49 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
Yes, they're mnemonics from some weird assembly language on some obscure and long dead architecteure. Fuck if I can remember what they stand for, but they're very common operators that every lisper learns to understand, recognize and use very quickly
 
ok, must have missed some parts then
it's certainly a very fast and furious argument
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah, you mean it's equivalent to haskell's head and tail functions that mean head and tail?
 
despite not knowing the English words they were originally shorthand for
 
first I see something about blogs, anime and japanese
and now it's assembly
 
11:50 AM
@BartekBanachewicz yep
 
@jalf Oh, right, now I see how it totally doesn't matter whether we call the function taking the head of the list "head" or "cdr", the same with the tail of the list - both "tail" and "car" can do.
 
And now you know what they mean and you still don't know what it expands to!
Congrats
 
@thecoshman would you recognize the function identifier が elsewhere in the source, and mentally go "oh, I remember that was called up there"? I suspect not. :)
 
after all tail is just 4 letters; it could mean anything, and in this case it means "tail"
what a strange coincidence
 
24
Q: Spelling mistake: Lesebeiträge

Thomas W.In Careers, I was asked to add more "Lesebeiträge" (which is German for reading contributions), but the Link leads me to https://careers.stackoverflow.com/cv/edit/...#writing, which is about writing contributions. I suggest to correct the text on the link to "Schreibbeiträge" (writing contributi...

 
11:52 AM
@BartekBanachewicz (It's actually car=head, cdr=tail, but not relevant)
@BartekBanachewicz Now say that in Polish.
 
@BartekBanachewicz sure, it's nice and convenient when the keyword coincides with a word in another language you understand. No one's disputing that. It is also how I sometimes understand a few words of German. The point is, it is possible to learn other languages (programming languages as well as human ones) even when this is not the case
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh right, I also sometimes mistake the two and think that head=tail, and tail=head
@R.MartinhoFernandes OGONEK
 
I can learn french words that have no similarity to their Danish counterparts, just like I can learn the Lisp keyword cdr despite it just looking like random letters
 
Btw, do you learn the etymology of every word you learn?
 
fuck yeah I do
 
11:53 AM
@jalf I've never said it's not possible. I've said it's much harder.
 
Because that's similar to what you're arguing here.
 
okay I'm really going to bed
7 AM
 
@Rapptz That's violent!
 
If you don't learn new words exclusively through their etymology, you are effectively just accepting them as opaque blobs that have some meaning assigned to them.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What I'm arguing is that learning English before learning programming makes a lot sense. And if you write your blog posts in English, other people from your country that might want to learn programming will be forced to learn english before that, so you're making them the best gift ever.
 
11:55 AM
Ah yes, withholding knowledge is the best gift ever
 
Yes, forcing them to learn something they're not there for.
Best gift ever.
 
Sure, tell me how arrogant, dumb, stupid, unrealistic, concescending my opinion is
I don't fucking care.
 
I'll remember that next time I find you guys here ranting about university.
 
Fuck the Babel.
 
babelfuck
 
11:56 AM
I agree with Bartek here...
 
You're French.
 
So?
 
@jalf I'm not witholding anything. I'm just not translating posts related to programming for the sake of people not willing to learn the language that makes talking about programming easier.
Talking about programming in Polish is ultimately shitty. I can't do it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Translating?
Gee.
 
The language is missing so much for me I can't express half of what I mean
 
11:57 AM
Wait what.
 
My point is knowing english has made a whole lot more knowledge available to me
 
English makes talking about programming easier how?
 
@BartekBanachewicz You were literally saying that others should withhold knowledge
By refusing to release it in languages other than English
 
@BartekBanachewicz Pretty sure it's your shortcoming, not the language's.
 
With the explicit purpose that only English-speakers would be able to read it
 
11:57 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Everyone uses English terminology. I don't know half of the Polish translations, and the other half doesn't even exist
at best, the translations are wonky
 
Programming isn't that complex a field that a centuries old natural language cannot handle it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz The entire point in the blog post you're ranting about is that not everyone uses English terminology
 
at worst, they're maliciously imprecise
 
@jalf I'd recognise it as a function call, I might have to look at the comments/code to work out what is actually being done :P
 
@thecoshman My question is would you recognize the same function name elsewhere in the source file?
 
11:59 AM
@thecoshman His point is that you'd have trouble telling it apart from other similar characters due to lack of familiarity.
 
Because I strongly suspect I'd just go "ah, squiggle, squiggle, squiggle" without really recognizing individual ones well enough to match all occurrences of it
 

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