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Xeo
Xeo
23:00
undefined in Haskell is the bottom value that inhibits every type.
Actually, that'd mean undefined inhibits Void.
So.. eh.
@Xeo that's a loophole
Xeo
Xeo
now I'm confused.
I am confused now as well
Fully statically-checked languages may not introduce that concept
that means they prove the program will produce a value in a finite number of steps
23:02
@E_net4 we already established that Rightfold's Bottom is not welldefined
50 mins ago, by Mohammad Ali Baydoun
And rightfold's Booty is not very well defined :c
there's no such thing as fully statically-checked.
Which, as mathematically proven, is not possible for every program they encounter.
@Puppy sigh
you yourself just stated that you can't implement a fully statically checked language, since it's mathematically impossible.
@Puppy that means they will reject programs they can't prove correct.
if you have a better term, please propose it.
which basically means you haven't implemented the language, since there are programs that are in the language but you can't prove it.
23:04
That's the case with every programming language ever.
I'd probably go with "Somewhat statically checked" or "Mostly statically checked" or maybe "As statically checked as we could make it"
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, but for most of them, it isn't mathematically impossible, it's just modulo a few bugs.
How do you differentiate "somewhat statically checked" from "allowing possibly uncorrect programs"?
because that's why I used that term here.
Hello.
I'm back home.
23:05
you don't
so you proposed a term that's not equivalent to mine.
That's not what I was trying to say, hence fuck you it's not useful.
the whole point was that your term regards a thing that does not exist, and I suggested a term that includes things that may actually exist.
Total functional programming (also known as strong functional programming, to be contrasted with ordinary, or weak functional programming) is a programming paradigm that restricts the range of programs to those that are provably terminating. Termination is guaranteed by the following restrictions: A restricted form of recursion, which operates only upon ‘reduced’ forms of its arguments, such as Walther recursion, substructural recursion, or "strongly normalizing" as proven by abstract interpretation of code. Every function must be a total (as opposed to partial) function. That is, it must have...
unless you want to go full-on mathematical proof, there's no way to show that the program has no bugs anyway.
Thanks @Cat
So I was talking about total programming languages.
23:07
and as far as I am aware, there are no programming languages that can do that and scale even remotely to useful programs.
provably terminating and provably correct are two completely different things.
Isn't there a provability requirement in things like aerospace?
@Puppy We're all aware of lacks in your awareness, TYVM.
6 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
that means they prove the program will produce a value in a finite number of steps
maybe you should read what I wrote again.
feel free to demonstrate any language which would allow you to implement a reasonably sized program which has been mathematically proven to have zero bugs in ti.
19 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Puppy You win yet another "Completely Missed The Point" award.
@BartekBanachewicz Pretty sure that I was just writing my reply whilst you were still writing that.
23:09
Stop being a Bratek, Bartek
also, now I wonder what on earth the point is of this programming.
@sehe Then that means I have to get out of this discussion, at least with Puppy.
I mean, congratulations, you gimped your language to prove that you don't exhibit an exceedingly trivial class of bug?
Agda is a total language
Xeo
Xeo
Btw did we reach any kind of consensus wrt Unconference 2.0 and its location?
23:10
nice job.
I think that makes heaps of sense.
Oodles even
And dependent types
@sehe Agreed.
@Xeo still pulling the rope between Gdańsk and London. Might end up in Baltic Sea with that pace
Xeo
Xeo
Berlin
:D
Who said anything about Gdańsk
23:11
me, duh.
Xeo
Xeo
Cat. Would you get your ass anywhere but your current hometown?
Berlin would be fine, too
@EtiennedeMartel I'm having fun so far
Within the country maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe
2
more straightforward than deadly shadows
Xeo
Xeo
23:12
You suck.
I don't get lost like in Thief 2
@Xeo we're making progress
Then maybe just let @Cat decide that it's in Wrocław. :D
I can't travel alone
Xeo
Xeo
UKanians don't want that
Or something
23:13
@CatPlusPlus I can travel with you <3
Unknown places, unknown people, too much unknown
Xeo
Xeo
Then bring a friend
The more, the merrier.
inb4 bring a what?
:P
lol
Guess I could ask my flatmate
If he'd go then I'd be fine with Berlin
23:14
my night got worse when fallout nv crashed
Not going to UK tho fuck UK
Xeo
Xeo
"Hey, would ya like to meet a buncha strangers in the middle of a big city far away?" - "Sure, sounds great!"
adding the occasional stuttering
what did obsidian do to bethesda's engine
@Xeo But we're a family <3
We have a precedent of getting drunk in unknown cities
Xeo
Xeo
23:15
@CatPlusPlus Cool, do that.
@AlexM. Turn VSync off.
Xeo
Xeo
And report back a "yes".
@Nooble I always turn vsync off
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus And picking up hookers?
Don't worry, we'll protect you from that.
I wonder if Cat being willing to go to Berlin, but nowhere else, could change the selected location
Xeo
Xeo
23:16
I think most people would be fine with Berlin too
@AlexM. Good. I hate it.
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy what about you, you lazy bum?
wat?
Xeo
Xeo
19 secs ago, by Xeo
I think most people would be fine with Berlin too
maybe obsidian decided to run their recipe for a better fallout on the rendering thread
fuck knows
23:16
@BartekBanachewicz I'd really need to learn Haskell though
@Xeo Just strip club twice
@Xeo It's been done though
I don't have that kind of money anyway
@Xeo no.
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy Well then you suck too.
23:17
@CatPlusPlus you wouldn't go anywhere
@Xeo I've said it before, but I'll be there in spirit form.
Xeo
Xeo
Buncha party poopers.
So I only half-suck.
@thecoshman Lets' do it again :P
People spoke, most would be happy with uk
Xeo
Xeo
23:18
I wanna pick a place where most would be willing to go to, tho
Where ever we pick, someone is not going to get their first choice.
@Xeo which is the uk
@thecoshman Which is a great thing on its own. Or not; YMMV. You know my opinion on that, you more or less know others' here who have learned it. Up to you.
we just did a fucking poll to find that out
@BartekBanachewicz but ruuuust
@Xeo buncha melaks
@thecoshman actually sehe send it to me, but might just be you'll want to learn Rust after Haskell.
I'm almost certainly going to learn Rust at some point.
But I'm going to give it a proper time and place, just like I did with Haskell.
23:20
lol there are some thief achievements that I won't be getting in this playthrough solely because of what I did so far
well that sucks
> Space Engineers Devs Announce Medieval Engineers
Wat
@AlexM. When I play games, (open world anyway) I try to cause as much destruction as possible. Not the best way to progress.
it's kinda meh because the game was trying to teach me about using the focus ability so I used it
wait a sec, actually how many people voted for "london/uk is acceptable" and how many for "poland is acceptable"?
23:22
and there's an achievement for completing the game without using it
the same applies for knockouts
OK, time for the 'Filling Station'. I'm thinking double pepperoni with jalapenos and extra pepperoni.
@AndyProwl also how many "wherever"
Xeo
Xeo
@MartinJames It's almost midnight your time. Get you biorhythm corrected, man.
@MartinJames And extra jalapeno.
Eat cheese
23:24
@BartekBanachewicz I count "wherever" as both "poland is acceptable" and "london/uk is acceptable"
k (was a separate option tho)
@CatPlusPlus Convince me.
Xeo
Xeo
Also, fuck the word "rhythm"
Cheese is good
@BartekBanachewicz the only down side atm is you have to keep learning it. but it's getting more stable.
23:24
@CatPlusPlus Consider me convinced.
@Xeo lel
fuck that
have fun and you're good
@thecoshman The parts borrowed from Haskell prolly ain't changing that rapidly :)
@AndyProwl about 11:9
The bar clock says 11:25.
The downside of Rust right now is babby's first ecosystem and unstable and crappy tooling
23:25
@thecoshman looks like 13 for London/UK (including "Anonymous Bitch"?) vs 11 for Poland.
I've discounted certain dubious entries we'd care not for
Xeo
Xeo
cut unknowns and vlad / telkitty
@AndyProwl like I said, I discounted a few. Still, it's close.
23:25
Vlad was LRIO or somethin
Xeo
Xeo
Oh, right.
@Xeo I wasn't going to just say it
@CatPlusPlus either way
@AndyProwl Telkitty is coming?
if she's willing to pay
results are open btw
She? - And another mystery unfolds itself.
23:27
I make it 16 countable entries
it's 11 vs 10 if we exclude the suspicious voters
let's find 2 more willing to go to Poland! :P
Xeo
Xeo
@AndyProwl So yeah, and everything after that (e.g. UK vs Poland) is just preference
We might need to redo it with just "london, other Uk, poland"
Xeo
Xeo
what about Berlin?
"UK, Berlin, Poland" - and then refine from there, I guess. A preference poll.
Also might have to take accomodation costs into account, or something
23:29
@Xeo because that is done already
I'd actually calc up the total cost for people from different places to different places, roughly
and I think splitting London from rest UK would help clear things up
you'd have to weigh that with standards of living
too complex
bah, could take 3-star hotel as a reference
@BartekBanachewicz no, you tried bollocks ways of working it out last time
23:30
@BartekBanachewicz didn't know there was a rope between these
It's a very cheap rope though
@Xeo could leave it on the table I guess
the main thing is, most people said ok with london/uk but didn't seem keen on London.
@Nooble the only female persona to date with any credibility. As far as gender is concerned, mind you
because London is hellishly expensive, and is p much similar to Berlin WRT multicultural capital
it's not that expensive vOv
but still, most people said they were ok with that (well /uk)
Xeo
Xeo
23:32
> b2BlockAllocator* allocator = &m_world->m_blockAllocator;
@thecoshman roughly 4 times Gdańsk WRT accomodation and food
Xeo
Xeo
I feel like the author of Box2D just reaaaally liked pointers.
I mean, c'mon.
@BartekBanachewicz what if we factor in the goodness?
Xeo
Xeo
References exist for a fucking reason.
Fuck's sake
@thecoshman still. If you pay half the London price, you'll get much nicer stay.
Xeo
Xeo
23:33
and since he mixes owning with non-owning pointers, and the documentation doesn't make it clear at all, it's getting really confusing
Wrocław might be cheaper due to not being by the goddamn sea and all
I'll fire up another poll in morning. This time with a clear split between London and other UK places, also count poland place and Berlin. People can just say which they are actually willing to go to.
@CatPlusPlus yeah, most certainly will be
Tricity is IIRC the 2nd most expensive after Warsaw
hint: it's not jsut about being cheap, else why even bother leaving the streets?
any way, I've got to go try not freeze tonight
@thecoshman Wrocław is also a quite beautiful city
23:36
god damn snow has started to hit us ¬_¬
Is it is just Wroclaw you thinking of in poland?
@Xeo This is one of the reasons I started rewriting it, but I hit several bumps because he wrote a lot of his code depending on pointers and pointer arithmetic, and there is a lot of coupling between the memory pool, and the code that uses it
And so I lost interest
@thecoshman I proposed Tricity just in case, but I don't care that much; it's still way cheaper than UK.
and Tricity attracts a lot of tourists in general
I'm not very interested in sightseeing
Xeo
Xeo
I'm interested in having a place to stay, a place to play some stuff, and places to go to and relax.
Oh, and maybe a place to buy foods
If the city fulfills that, I'm in
@CatPlusPlus Neither do I. I just like to get away from school.
23:48
@MohammadAliBaydoun I am brute-forcing 142.
@DonLarynx 142?
Ooh. I'm almost halfway: 67, 68, 69, 42, 70
Nearly lost my footing there
inb4 PE
@DonLarynx That doesn't look fun.
It wasn't which is why I am brute forcing it.
goes to the vending machine for a monster
23:59
Hehe.
Why not write a program to help you brute force it?
ACCU's program looks interesting

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