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8:00 AM
then you have to allocate new memory and move the objects
 
The destructor has to not throw.
How else do they expect to maintain the general requirement
that says clear() and erase() should not throw?
 
wait they have that requirement?
 
yes
— no erase(), clear(), pop_back() or pop_front() function throws an exception.
 
oh!
but that solves it no?
that indirectly requires a nothrow destructor?
 
yes
That's what I believe
 
8:01 AM
or is this one of those weird scenarios
where "exceptions: none" doesn't mean noexcept
there was one of those cases IIRC
 
void clear() noexcept;
 
@orlp Yes.
 
§ 23.3.6.1
 
@Rapptz Most of the "underspecified" stuff is really covered in the general container requirements at §23.2.1.
 
@Rapptz but mysteriously pop_back is not noexcept
@JerryCoffin I've been staring at the general requirements
@JerryCoffin but they only specify Erasable which has no exception requirements
 
8:04 AM
@orlp It says "unless explicitly said otherwise"
 
@orlp Stare some more: "no erase(), clear(), pop_back() or pop_front() function throws an exception."
So yes, pop_back() is noexcept (or must not throw, anyway, whether it has to actually be marked as noexcept or not).
 
well thanks a ton guys
if either of you want some rep
 
@orlp I'll leave that to @Rapptz. I need to get to bed.
 
night
 
good night
 
8:10 AM
Thanks. G'night.
 
pff this does make my job a lot easier :P
exception safety is hard enough without all your dying objects throwing all over the place
 
I'm writing an answer I suppose
 
@Rapptz I'm not forcing you or lazy myself, was just giving the opportunity to get rep
@Rapptz if you don't want it I'll do it myself
 
It's okay :p
I was writing one anyway
that's how I stumbled upon the quote
 
ok :)
> P.S.: Don't worry, I'm not planning to create types with throwing destructors. I'm just writing a standard-conforming implementation and trying to get exception safety right.
I bet my P.S. there saved at least 5 scolding comments about how I'm doing it wrong
 
golly
english language & useage people also browse reddit?
 
mmk
0
A: May the elements in a std::vector have a throwing destructor?

RapptzNo. The standard says this in general requirements: [C++11: §23.2.1/10]: Unless otherwise specified (see 23.2.4.1, 23.2.5.1, 23.3.3.4, and 23.3.6.5) all container types defined in this Clause meet the following additional requirements: — no erase(), clear(), pop_back() or pop_front() ...

everyone browses reddit
 
@Rapptz upboated and accepted
 
:p
time to make my 3 AM dinner
 
@Rapptz I had my 7 AM dinner
hurr
fucking casual
 
8:22 AM
@Rapptz Do you ever sleep?
 
@TonyTheLion we do not sleep.
@TonyTheLion we do not rest.
 
@TonyTheLion yes
 
@Rapptz Just looks to me you're awake all the time...
 
I am.
I sleep like 3 times a day
 
@TonyTheLion what makes you think that sleep and awake are mutually exclusive?
 
8:23 AM
40 minutes each.
 
oh wow
 
maybe more
2-4 hours big sleep then some micro naps
 
oh, interesting
and that seems to work for you?
 
polyphasic sleeping is great, but you can't really do it when you have a 9-5 :(
 
user1646075
@Rapptz did you get sorted on your script? Looks nice and clean at first glance. Any remaining problem?
 
8:25 AM
@thecoshman yea, I figured
 
I work 9 to 5.
o.o
@aclarke Nope.
 
so what do you do for sleep during work?
 
user1646075
hangon - nope:not sorted; or nope:no more problems?
 
@Rapptz do you think I should do this through a compile-time dispatching function or that the compiler will optimize it out?
 
user1804599
8:28 AM
If it's a constant then of course the compiler will optimize it out.
 
user1804599
That's like the most obvious optimization ever.
 
libc++ seems to do forced compile-time dispatching
 
user1804599
For what?
 
@thecoshman Yeah I use my lunch time as nap time.
30 minutes
Only on some days though.
If I'm hungry I eat lunch.
 
user1646075
are you hoping that the echo in this fragment will result in total_count being equal to "1":
`total_count=$(git rev-list HEAD --count || exit 1)`
because that won't happen
 
8:34 AM
I need a job :(
 
@orlp there are plenty
 
user1646075
@orlp McDonalds is always hiring
 
@aclarke I feel my talents go to waste at McDonalds
 
user1646075
@orlp so does good taste.
 
@BartekBanachewicz part-time remote or in the neighborhood of Leiden?
 
user1646075
8:37 AM
... also that exit will not make the script exit before it echos total_count
 
user1804599
Does std::setlocale affect all threads?
 
user1804599
Or is it not that bad?
 
user1646075
and that's all I see without running it or figuring out what those git commands do.
 
In case anyone cares we've having a monthly coding challenge in the JS room (which may or may not be JS related, probably not though).
3
 
user1646075
@BenjaminGruenbaum that's gotta be like competitive cat tennis
 
8:42 AM
@aclarke what?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Coding in JS is always a challenge
In not killing yourself
Morning
 
user1646075
@BenjaminGruenbaum heh - ummm, you know, not just "difficult like herding cats" but like teaching them to play competition tennis
 
@CatPlusPlus what a witty joke. You're funny and have a healthy outlook on life.
@aclarke I still don't understand what you're saying here.
Also morning.
 
@thecoshman Yes that's why it says it has an outstanding ticket :v
 
Sounds fun.
I wish you luck.
 
8:43 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum you can safely disregard cat
cat is butte
 
user1646075
@BenjaminGruenbaum Ever heard the expression "Managing (children|programmers|senile seniors|...)" is like herding cats?
 
@aclarke yes, I got the reference. I just don't know what you mean by it here. I don't see how it would be like herding cats at all.
@orlp why would I disregard him though? He's usually pretty funny.
 
user1646075
ok, you must enjoy JS then, despite it's wild-west outlook on life.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm just kidding
 
@aclarke It's not a coding challenge in JS but yes, I enjoy JS. I enjoy writing code in imperfect languages, and even in downright bad ones. If I can build something cool in PHP or C or Java - I'd still enjoy doing it.
 
8:46 AM
delicious 3:30 AM dinner
 
user1646075
Could i maybe use PL/1 or intercal or SIGFORTH?
 
@aclarke it works like a game jam
 
user1646075
I think I need to stop being so serious.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You try to run it 3 times and nobody participates?
I'm up at 10AM I don't know what to do
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus Go back to bed?
 
8:48 AM
@CatPlusPlus you try to get a bunch of lazy people to actually do something constructive instead of sleeping to 6pm.
so yeah.
 
Why be productive if you can sleep
 
user1804599
@aclarke PL/SQL
 
user1804599
aaaahh I want to learn Eiffel.
 
@rightføld I want to learn and be productive in Haskell. I tried like 3 times in last 10 years and failed all the time. :)
 
user1804599
> use tcc && COMPILER=tcc
 
user1804599
8:56 AM
dat build file
 
user1646075
@rightføld for an embedded controller.
 
user1646075
@rightføld bravo
 
user1646075
@VáclavZeman ummm, without being unkind....
 
@aclarke Yes?
 
fuck
 
user1646075
8:57 AM
:->>
 
I feel terrible
 
@Jefffrey Less booze next time?
 
We were supposed to meet for the first time, me and the other 3 of the team. But yesterday I went to bed at 4 and I really couldn't wake up at 7.
 
user1804599
ok let's try to compile SmartEiffel
inb4 fail
 
user1646075
good luck. it's a behemoth that can be frustrating. All Serious Software Engineering. But there's some mighty fine ideas in it.
 
user1804599
9:00 AM
> vfork.h not found, please install it if you want build SmartEiffel correctly
 
user1804599
hahaha
 
user1804599
great
 
@VáclavZeman I have a no booze policy from 1 months ago to march 2015 included.
 
@Jefffrey rip
 
user1646075
what platform? I can't remember what I installed it on.
 
9:01 AM
@Jefffrey OK, then it is a withdrawal syndrome?
 
lol
 
user1646075
oh, I always used the freeby version, straight from the horse's mouth: eiffel.com
 
@AniketDeshmukh hi
 
user1804599
@aclarke couldn't get it to work.
 
Hi. Are there any reasons to use std::set (or std::unordered_set) as arguments for set_intersection function (from <algorithm>)?
 
> My primary use-case right now is iOS
 
user1804599
@vaultah No, because std::set_intersection takes iterators and std::set and std::unordered_set are not an iterator types.
 
I didn't know Eiffel was a real programming language.
 
9:07 AM
@rightføld Do you already know Smalltalk? You should try it, if you are just looking for new languages to taste.
 
I thought it was just one of those hipster things rightfold is into.
 
user1804599
@VáclavZeman No.
 
Smalltalk environments are kinda annoying
 
user1804599
woot
 
user1804599
SmartEiffel works.
 
9:08 AM
@CatPlusPlus they are absolutely awfully annoying
 
Still have better text editors than VS
 
@Jefffrey lol
 
I don't like images as primary storage
 
user1804599
ugh
 
user1804599
make install compiles again.
 
user1804599
9:09 AM
wat
 
Xeo
whee
finally arrived
 
Eiffel looks like a funny language, but it's imperative
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus What's an image? Is it like persistent REPL sessions?
 
Sorry, worded my question wrong. Are there any reasons to use std::set (or std::unordered_set) iterators as arguments for set_intersection function
 
user1804599
Uh, yes, if you want to compute the set intersection of sets.
 
9:10 AM
@rightføld smalltalk saves your code as BMP screenshots
 
user1646075
@rightføld hmmm. Was several years ago now. I might play in the next few days if I get a chance.
 
@rightføld Basically everything there is in the Smalltalk run time instances / universe has an image in the image. Image is just a dump of the memory, sort of.
 
user1804599
@aclarke This toolchain is from 2009. :v
 
And what if I just use sorted vectors?
 
@vaultah That should work as well.
 
user1646075
9:12 AM
@Rapptz I think the idea of the tower, apart from the french connection, is the way it makes MI work so cleanly - "we turn many connecting lines into a thing of beauty!"
 
Cool. Thanks, @VáclavZeman
 
@rightføld It's a filesystem in a bottle
Except class/object-oriented
Sorta
 
user1804599
How does it work with Git? :v
 
It really doesn't
 
It really doesn't work at all, was what he meant
 
9:14 AM
They have Monticello and you can mount directories but it really wants you to use Smalltalk workflow
 
which isn't a bad idea on its own
but so poorly executed that eh.
 
It's not poorly executed but it's different
 
It's hard to get existing workflows to work with it
And nobody is really interested because their existing workflow is the Smalltalk one
 
@CatPlusPlus hm?
 
9:16 AM
17 hours ago, by Cat Plus Plus
I AM SUPER EXCITED
Also VS Pro is free now
 
oh that was about that
@CatPlusPlus wait what
 
@BartekBanachewicz a community edition that pretty much has all the pro functionality
 
@CatPlusPlus I think Ultimate features actually. In the Community Edition.
 
9:17 AM
No it's Pro
 
Oh...
 
so VS Express is no more?
 
Ultimate business enterprise mega edition++ 2b premium aftersale
 
At least no need for DreamSpark!
 
Yep, fuck Express
 
9:18 AM
I wonder if my company classifies for using Community
 
@Abyx They're phasing it out.
 
I think yeah
 
<= 5 devs
 
VS looks great
 
@CatPlusPlus if I ever have to name a mobile prostitution service I'll call it the "Fuck Express"
 
9:18 AM
@MarkGarcia well 5 users, not 5 devs
 
> Here’s how Visual Studio Community can be used in organizations:
>
> An unlimited number of users within an organization can use Visual Studio Community for the following scenarios: in a classroom learning environment, for academic research, or for contributing to open source projects.
> For all other usage scenarios: In non-enterprise organizations, up to 5 users can use Visual Studio Community. In enterprise organizations (meaning those with >250 PCs or > $1MM in annual revenue), no use is permitted beyond the open source, academic research, and classroom learning environment scen
 
yeah, so as long as no more than 5 devs use the community edition, it's ok
 
@BartekBanachewicz or open source
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well yeah our designer counts.
:P
 
we're all using Express :F
 
9:19 AM
R# doesn't run on Express so fuck Express
Unusable shit
 
Also cross-platform development support.
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh wow.
 
user1804599
WOOHOOOO
 
user1804599
% cat foo.e
class
    FOO
create
    make
feature
    make is
        do
            print("Hello, world!%N")
        end
end
% se c -boost -c_mode release foo
% ./a.out
Hello, world!
 
user1804599
I can finally learn this shit!
 
9:20 AM
They're also pulling a bitbucket and giving unlimited private Git/TFS repos
And I think the rest of TFS crap too
@rightføld Wow congrats on getting hello world to work
 
for codeplex?
 
V exciting
@Rapptz No, VS Online
CodePlex is for open-source
 
But their open source dev are going to be on GitHub.
 
@rubenvb we're writing C++, not C# though
 
@CatPlusPlus what
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why use VS at all? ;-P
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol right. Except for VAX, extensions and features on other editions would make no difference.
 
@MarkGarcia yes, they would make no difference.
@rubenvb because we don't have to maintain a shitload of building toolchains this way
dunno really
I didn't argue with it
 
lol
 
9:23 AM
and it's nice to have a working debugger
oh so nice.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Thanks. :D
 
so long GDB, you fucking piece of useless shit
please die in fire.

xoxo,
Bartek
 
You should write correct code so you don't need to debug.
:-p
 
lol VS and working debugger
 
@BartekBanachewicz Also we'll be getting a nice(r) debugger for Clang!
 
9:24 AM
Ask Robot about MSVC debugger
 
Ask Robot about MSVC
 
@CatPlusPlus robot is writing TMP abominations
 
Not really
VS Pro doesn't have CodeLens lol
Killer feature
 
I wonder if they now have rename built-in on preview...
 
Seriously, my experience with VS debugger has been way better than with GDB
way better
 
9:26 AM
I think lack of IntelliTrace and profiler will be the most noticeable
 
I miss KCachegrind in VS
 
Code coverage maybe but there are other tools so w/e
Guess I'll be buying dotTrace and dotMemory soonish
Well not soonish
 
you should try C++
 
dat NET
 
9:29 AM
@Mikhail lol
still lol
 
what about now?
KEEP ME POSTED DAMNIT
 
Funny thing with MSVC incorporating Clang is that they would basically use clang-cl as drop-in for cl.
 
@Jefffrey what about what
 
So it's already job done for them.
Lazy bastards.
 
@BartekBanachewicz are you lolling now?
:P
 
9:31 AM
@MarkGarcia They'll probably get involved
 
Hope so.
 
@MarkGarcia who says they didn't invest in it before?
 
Yeah they probably contributed.
 
Maybe clang will have exceptions working finally :v
 
Chance is slim, but hey, some contributions might be traceable to MS employees.
 
9:32 AM
@Jefffrey oh lol
 
There's that news of MS contributing to Linux (IIRC) though, with the contributor officially representing the company. So there's no reason for MSVC to hide stuff.
Except for an element of surprise thingy.
 
I think they were just writing drivers?
 
It's about integration with WinSock or something.
 
9:46 AM
MS did a big contribution related to how Linux works under their HyperV thing.
Don't remember reading anything about winsock, but hey, I'm not a news sink.
 
They have started working on getting the .NET framework to linux. Not sure if they are just making it easier for the community to develop Mono to an 'open' standard, or if they are actually going to help implement Mono, or their own official version... though that's pretty stupid thing...
 
@thecoshman I hope they'd merge Mono (the part that isn't already based on to same basis) with the One Big Implementation. That'd be the best for compatiblity.
 
@thecoshman It seems to me (I do not use either) that Mono run time is decent enough but it lacks in libraries. By open sourcing their .NET library they pretty much enable .NET on Linux. Or am I wrong?
 
> C++11, C++14, C++17 (proposed) compatibility
 
9:51 AM
> improved the C++ experience, adding support for targeting Android, boosting runtime and build-time performance, improving standards compliance, and improving the editor experience.
@rubenvb nice
Command–query separation (CQS) is a principle of imperative computer programming. It was devised by Bertrand Meyer as part of his pioneering work on the Eiffel programming language. It states that every method should either be a command that performs an action, or a query that returns data to the caller, but not both. In other words, asking a question should not change the answer. More formally, methods should return a value only if they are referentially transparent and hence possess no side effects. == Connection with design by contract == Command–query separation is particularly well suited...
also what the fuck is that
this effectively renders State a b with b !~ () forbidden
or maybe I don't get it
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Only if that particular state transformer actually changes state, and isn't something akin to get
 
@Xeo I was actually thinking about this recently
 
@VáclavZeman ah, is it just the libraries they are open sourcing? I thought it was their run time. I think Mono is fairly stable, like wise not a .NET developer (or user really), but it doesn't really provide that 'platform' like you get for .NET for windows, if you know what I mean. If MS properly back/endorse Mono, it will elevate it's standing as a viable target platform for all .NET
 
You can't simply run Reader a inside of State a
and any State computation has put and modify
 
@BartekBanachewicz sounds fairly reasonable...
 
9:56 AM
3 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
this effectively renders State a b with b !~ () forbidden
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz RWS(T)!
 
@BartekBanachewicz Those things don't have a debugger.
 
though I still like my "either find an existing 'thing' or make a new one and give me that"
 
@Xeo Still. What if the data you want to read resides in S part? it's not a solution at all
 
Xeo
9:57 AM
I was joking
 
@BartekBanachewicz wait, that's declarative code, no? His 'theory' is about imperative.
 
Xeo
State is basically imperative
 
@thecoshman do notation utilizing State chaining is p much imperative
or, as much imperative as Haskell gets.
f = do
    x += 1
    y *= 2
 
@MarkGarcia The vast majority of Linux contributions comes from people paid to do so by large companies.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz you can if you make an instance of MonadReader for State a or something.
 
9:59 AM
I think as a general principle though it's good, but like more or less everything, their are exceptions.
 

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