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23:00
@Puppy I like nameof, the new "primary constructor" shortcut and property initialization syntices, and string interpolation, too. They reduce cruft, duplication, and improve the compiler's checking power.
@StackedCrooked What platform you on?
Googling "common abi" gets me this.
@Puppy OS X
desktop?
it'll be Itanium then
@StackedCrooked Are you sure # isn't the marker for comments?
23:01
lol
that could well be
yep
for polymorphic types, the RTTI pointer is two (void*)'s back in the vtable, whose pointer is always at offset zero, and the RTTI object has the const char* name at offset zero.
The new constructor syntax is particularly effective at killing cruft.
There's a new constructor syntax?
I haven't seen the other features.
23:02
only string interpolation.
I don't like the new constructor syntax
class Foo(string x, string y) {}
// equivalent to:
class Foo
{
    private string x;
    private string y;
    Foo(string x, string y)
    {
        this.x = x;
        this.y = y;
    }
}
It's weird
It's boilerplate-free.
oh not that variation of it
23:05
@R.MartinhoFernandes In other words, our developers keep writing more and more types that just store other objects without doing much of meaning?
Well, I expected you to be able to see through that...
But I guess I'll have to explain everything in excruciating detail...
You can add stuff to it!
Surprise!
@R.MartinhoFernandes Unless I'm wrong, you're missing a couple lines in your first one.
You have to do class Foo(string x, string y) { x_ = x; y_ = y; };
class Foo(int a, int b)
{
	private int q;

	private void doSomething()
	{
		q = a + b;
	}
}
if it works like this
@Rapptz No, that's the broken interim version they had.
then I guess I could see where it could be useful
I think
23:07
Thankfully they went back and fixed it.
That old syntax with implicit naming conventions was just ugh.
sans syntactic sugar
Damnit, my copy of WoD didn't arrive today and I don't have a tracking number for some reason.
the exception filtering is cool
I guess the F# investment is paying off.
Ah in C# language extensions
23:09
I don't see myself using it but it seemed cool to me
catch(MyException e) if (e.value > 10) { }
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that... Scala?
@Rapptz Yeah, they took it from VB.
(Finally)
@Borgleader C#
(Dat pun)
@sehe Yeah, although now that I think about it I may have had OCaml in mind more than ML.
@Borgleader C# 6
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah I didn't like the old syntax. I was unaware they changed it.
23:11
Meh =/ I'm not fond of that feature.
@Rapptz So from catch(MyException e) { if (!(e.value > 10)) throw; } to catch(MyException e) if (e.value > 10) {}?
that is a joke, right?
@Borgleader Why? You like typing out all the bullshit?
@Puppy Not quite the same semantics, though.
@Puppy now that's even worse :) In that case, leave it be...
Good demo right here.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Really? That's pretty surprising.
23:12
Not if you can count to ten.
It needed to be said
oh, did I just put the condition the wrong way around?
yeah.
Premature skepti_cism_ is premature
"Also needs condition to be negated" isn't really a point in favour (or against, for that matter)
@R.MartinhoFernandes I find the syntax confusing a bit. Maybe I'm just not used to it. Also the effort it takes "to write all this shit" makes me think twice about what i need in a class.
23:14
How does the new syntax deal with public/private?
The old way made you reassign it in the body which made sense because you could put public or private
But how does it work now?
You can make properties with the new initializers.
Something like public T Foo { get; } = foo; or something.
Oh yeah I read that.
The "parameters" are in scope in the whole class.
I didn't like that syntax at all though
looks weird
"C# 6.0 does away with this deficiency, however, and now allows await calls within both catch and finally blocks"
why the fuck were they ever banned.
23:16
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah that's cool indeed.
@Puppy The transformation was not easy.
If you initialize a logger same file 1000 times in a loop, why are you surprised you might get repeated and interfering writes? What happens when you replace 1000 by 1? o.O — sehe 34 secs ago
@R.MartinhoFernandes So it’s not closing over/constructing over them without programmer intervention?
They decided to keep it out instead of pushing it forward broken.
@R.MartinhoFernandes What's different about a catch block compared to any other kind of block?
23:17
@Rapptz Good arguments :)
posted on November 13, 2014 by Eric Niebler

(Difficult-to-grok metaprogramming below. Not for the faint of heart.) At the recent Urbana-Champaign meeting of the C++ Standardization Committee, Bill Seymour presented his paper N4115: Searching for Types in Parameter Packs which, as its name suggests, describes a library facility Continue reading →

@sehe Syntax is important.
@Puppy IIRC that was explained last time you ranted on them.
@Puppy Control flow is non-trivial there. And it interacts with CLR in several tricky ways.
@sehe No, they said that catch blocks are a different case without ever stating why.
23:18
@Rapptz it is. That's why they introduce it
@Puppy Who's they? I was referring to in this chat
@R.MartinhoFernandes The control flow inside a catch block is the same as everywhere else, isn't it? It's only how you got to that block that's different.
@sehe The other people in the chat.
@LucDanton Hmm, actually, not sure. Maybe you still have to declare the fields if you want to keep them but you can initialize them directly inline. If you don't want to keep them you can use them in all sorts of other initializers.
Also, "they didn't take the effort to explain to me why I underestimate their task" is just entitlement. It doesn't quite work like that
@Puppy Yes, and the CPS transformations for those cases are not trivial.
Spoonfeeding. I’ve been pushing for the word now!
23:21
Oh god what a colitis.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, but why? What's special about being inside a catch block that makes them more difficult than any other block?
Catch blocks are non-local jumps.
Beautiful piece :S
@R.MartinhoFernandes That is, unless they are implemented braindead. Make me wonder...
non-local jumps to where?
in a catch block, you can either go to the next statement, return, or throw an exception, and that's the same as any other block
...
23:25
> life savings
Yeah, lovely isn't it
Makes me sad.
I'm thinking css + image resource out of sync error?
> meta_compose<F0, meta_compose<F1, F2>::template apply>
23:31
hmm
Missing typename.
I did not realize that the CLR imposed such restrictions on catch blocks.
I thought they did the same as LLVM, which is to say that there is nothing interesting or special about catch blocks.
@LucDanton in Niebler's?
There's another post where Eric explains those decisions.
23:32
or rather
that's not really true.
LLVM has the same restrictions on catch blocks, I just dodged them completely by immediately jumping to a non-special block from the catch block.
The CLR doesn't let you jump out.
I predict in one or two posts we’ll have a MPL 2.0 with placeholders and all.
hmm
you could achieve the same effect by simply changing state, set the exception ref to a member, and then once out of the catch, jump to that state, I guess.
I don't know what they changed to make it work, but whatever that was, that's the reason it is now allowed.
They worked around it in some way they found satisfactory.
23:35
finally blocks though, I have sympathy because those are just strange in every way.
> Please pick your password carefully.
There are no password recovery options.
dlang forums hardcore as fuck
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think it was you that commented on MSVC symptoms apparent in its users? Now I can’t unsee it.
K, gave up on West Africa and got to Nairobi. Now it's just down the Nile and then the Mediterranean should be a breeze.
Way past 80 days already, though.
I think you have to go up the Nile to get to the Mediterranean
23:39
North != up.
I suppose the Nile flows downwards.
not actually sure.
somehow I always had this image in my head of the Nile flowing south.
Where to?
but now I think about it, it's gotta flow towards the Med, right?
23:40
The "spring" is in Lake Victoria.
@Puppy Yeah.
not sure why I ever decided it must flow south.
ok, fuck VS 2015 Preview, I guess it's Preview for a reason.
I'll probably keep it around for when I'm dealing with deleted function refs but otherwise
now I'll probably have to rebuild LLVM again :(
Though unlike Fogg, I'm not just trying to make some circle around the Earth.
I want to touch all continents, and all the Great Capes.
I guess being over 80 days is not that bad.
23:46
I gotta admit
there are some things in C# that I'd love to have in C++, like named arguments or yield return.
but the more I use it the more annoying it becomes.
Sounds just like C++.
hm
I dunno
the features in C++ I miss from C# are mostly just a little convenience
the features in C# I miss from C++ tend to break the ability to type things correctly.
my #1 feature from C# I want in C++: compile times that aren't abysmal
ah, but C# has a way of getting back at that one.
you can't edit-and-continue 64bit applications, so the IDE plain forbids you from making any change at all to the source whilst it's running, even if you don't want to edit and continue.
@Puppy that infuriates me, i wanted to add a comment to the code earlier, and it was like "fuck you its running, you cant change it"
23:51
yep.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, Lack Victoria isn't (at least mostly) spring-fed. It collects drainage from a pretty large area. Oh, and not to forget: "the Nile" also includes the Blue Nile, which is fed out of another lake (can't remember the name for sure--pretty sure it starts with a "T" though).
discovered today that you can't LINQ-to-SQL in a remotely generic way.
Hmmm..."lake Tan" maybe? Doesn't sound quite right, but I think it's close.
@Puppy meaning?
@Borgleader Let's say that you have an interface, and that the rows in various tables meet this interface. You cannot write queries against the interface.
like, I dunno
23:56
oh
right
Oh, so is Hana slated to be in Boost then? I’ve just noticed the intro in Eric’s post.
so for me
> Boost got in on the act with Boost.MPL, Boost.Fusion, and (currently under development) Hana.
wait, couldnt you use reflection to grab the stuff and then construct a query based on that?
I just had an app which is six tables with lots of common logic but I had to duplicate it six times for each table.
@Borgleader What do you mean?
23:57
@JerryCoffin It's lake Tana in Ethiopia. I know it's not really a spring, hence the quotes.
@Puppy Well I was under the impression that C#'s reflection would allow you to enumerate a type's properties and then that would allow you to query the rows.
> template<typename List, typename Fun, typename = void> struct typelist_transform {};
right, but you can't have properties because they are not query expressions.
even if their implementations trivially would be.
Optionally ternary metafunction :v (It’s not mentioned in the post, even though it is used with three arguments in several places.)
And I'm back
23:59
@Puppy LINQ-to-SQL is being phased out, no?
@Jefffrey You eat like an american ;)
no idea, I've not heard about a replacement for it but I'm not that active in that world.

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