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00:00
therefore, global structures ok?
@cyberspace009 And external structure declarations are... structs not in a namespace?
The disappearing blonde gene refers to false reports that a scientific study had estimated that natural blonds would become extinct, which were reported as fact in reputable media such as the BBC and the Sunday Times between 2002 and 2006. Claims that blond hair would disappear have been made since 1865. Cites Chamber's journal of popular literature, science and arts By William Chambers, Robert Chambers, 1865 (p. 408), as well as newspaper mentions from 1890, 1906, and 1961. 1906 reference relates to a newspaper report on a lecture by Major C. E. Woodruff called The Disappearance of Blon...
I had heard people claim the blondes will go extinct. But TIL it's all a hoax.
People are stupid and don't know shit about science, news at 11
Good, because I like blonde beauties.
00:02
They say the same nonsense about gingers
I was super blonde when I was young. Then, aging, my hairs became darker and darker.
Really common.
Happened to me too.
Biology is hard
Checking facts is even harder
@Jefffrey I believe they can be in a namespace and outside.
As the book claims.
People are bad in a lot of things.
00:04
@cyberspace009 Then I don't follow the book's reasonings. Can't see the linkage between global variables and struct declarations.
@Jefffrey The book is stating you can have global variables and global structs. I want to know if global structs is good c++ practice.
I already know global variables are very bad.
I just remembered you can have unnamed local structs declarations. Took me quite some time.
not everything has to be in a namespace.
I only put things in a namespace if I'm making a library
and if I can think of one
@cyberspace009 Do you understand how they are bad?
@Jefffrey global structures? Nope.
00:08
No, I mean global objects.
@Jefffrey yes. I do actually.
How are they bad?
security issues so use of global variables should be avoided as much as possible.
And a pain in the ass to debug
Security issues?
Yes.
every function will have access to that global object.
00:12
I'm gonna go ahead and say structs are fine.
That's... not a security issue
@CatPlusPlus So not every function will have access to a global variable?
That's... not a security issue
We got it the first time cat.
Global variables can be read or modified by any part of the program, making it difficult to remember or reason about every possible use.
00:15
@Xeo I like how, at the end of the Moon route, the trembling caused by the familiars caused occasional displacement of the game's UI interface.
That's still not a security issue
Ell
Ell
... How about now?
00:30
I notice that many people think C and C++ are connected. Kinda like siamese twins. This might be due to them being referred to as "C/C++".
They are connected. One is a superset of the other.
Not really
@StackedCrooked When you see "C/C++" in questions, just choose the one that makes you comfortable. It's their fault if it's ambiguous.
such wisdom
many wow
:P
01:01
@cyberspace009 Programming anti-pattern from the 70s when "modules" (aka different parts of the codebase) communicated with other parts via global variables.
Hahahaha 70s
Liskov proposed the idea to assign a region of memory for each module and disallow modules to access memory outside of its range.
This was a step forward.
I wonder what took them so long to come up with the concept of a heap manager.
People are still using globals
So, how does this not create security issues, Cat?
Nothing has improved
01:03
C/C++ is C
@StackedCrooked manager D:
you should always assume the lowest subset
@cyberspace009 Okay please define security issue for me
heap management director
01:03
What StackedCrook said before.
That has absolutely nothing to do with security
But can it have some connection to security issues?
Security is not confined to your program. Security is about the entire system that is surrounding your program.
So then if I create a global variable with no connection to the system.
And global state has nothing to do with security. You are making yourself look like an idiot by saying that.
01:06
The connection is "you're bad at design, so you're probably bad at security, too"
There's only one everything therefore everything is a singleton.
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus I've gotten the team to agree to focus-scope for now. The two best candidates are either Unity with its 2D Tools or just roll-our-own-2D stuff with SharpDX and CSharppe.
Don't roll your own
@CatPlusPlus ok. understood.
user3010322
Well, if we don't roll our own we're left with Unity2D.
01:09
Then go with Unity
user3010322
Hokay.
@ThePhD this for the cross platform thing?
user3010322
Yeah.
user3010322
But we're focusing on just Windows PC and Windows Phone.
do you also need to target PCs?
oh
alright
I was going to recommend Corona SDK for awesome and simple 2D gamedev but that's only for phones and tablets :(
user3010322
01:10
And costs money?
Windows PC and Windows Phone. I suppose MS has its own notion of cross-platform :)
user3010322
They do. And it's shit.
you can use the free version with some publishing limitations afaik
Apple does that too
oh yeah, it's an income limitation
user3010322
01:11
"Portable" Class Libraries and "Universal" Apps.
if you earn something like $10k+ you have to buy a license
sum might not be accurate
user3010322
Wha thtey really mean is "all that code that compiles just fine with .NET 4.5 and friends doesn't work whatsoever with the Phone or the regular Windows Store 8.1 bullshit. So you'll need to recompile everything and all THEIR dependencies too and then make sure it works on the latest devices."
user3010322
"Portable" and "Universal", yeah.
user3010322
And Apple's not fucking helping.
Portable stuff works on desktops afair
user3010322
01:13
Rather than just say "develop with C++ and our beautiful Clang compiler please."
user3010322
They say "WE'RE GOING TO INVENT NEW PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE AND NEW GPU LANGUAGE YEAH CUSTOMER SEGMENTATION!!!"
:lol: Apple never cared about C++
user3010322
But they care enough about their shitty Objective-C to decide to push onto us a new programming language entirely.
user3010322
... And a new GPU API. I mean, jesus fucking christ.
user3010322
OpenGL is a great open specification and matches the GPU's exactly because they're mostly written by the fucking GPU vendors and hardware creators.
01:15
if you ask me for an opinion, I think the new language was a good thing
user3010322
So maybe it'd make sense t just, I dunno, have really good OpenGL Drivers.
it's closer to what I already know than ObjC is
user3010322
But it's still a new language.
user3010322
It's more tools I have to learn. More shit I have to master to develop on another platform.
yeah it is but it can help gain the support of programmers previously not interested in the platform
I'd say it's a step up from ObjC
user3010322
01:16
People are always striving to unify platforms and then Apple just goes and throws a fucking wrench in the whole goddamn thing.
Apple only cares about Clang cause of Objective-C.
AppleCare is the hardware warranty and support service offered by Apple Inc. It comes included as standard with all products, offering limited hardware warranty along with phone/Internet support on its products. Additional purchase of an AppleCare Protection Plan extends both the hardware and support cover, depending on the device for which it is purchased. AppleCare AppleCare covers both global parts and labor repair coverage for the device, along with phone/Internet technical support for questions about Apple hardware and software. All Apple hardware products come with included AppleCa...
this reminds me, I once tried to write some ObjC on Windows after I found out GCC can compile it
I'm not going to say it was bad or anything, but it did feel almost alien from start to end
almost as alien as common lisp felt to me at first
@AlexM. I've used it to write a Cocoa application back in 2008-2009.
However, I that was only one or two apps. Not enough to get really knowledgeable about the language.
So I can't say if it's good or not.
And I only used it for the GUI part. The underlying logic was written in C++.
I kinda liked the idea of "sending messages" instead of "calling methods".
Not sure why though.
I should probably sleep soon.
I think sending messages is closer to the theory behind OOP, or so I've read
01:26
It is.
> The Smalltalk language, which was developed at Xerox PARC (by Alan Kay and others) in the 1970s, introduced the term object-oriented programming to represent the pervasive use of objects and messages as the basis for computation.
1970: OOP = objects + messages
1997: OOP = encapsulation + inheritance + polymophism (aka Java)
1997 was basically about throwing academically sounding words together.
If you combine the two you get POOOOP
It's extra shitty
It's a double poop.
And two poops don't cancel each other out.
my speakers are making a shitty buzzing noise every now and then
I need to throw these shits away
spamming that attack button (gif) img.izismile.com/img/img7/20140710/1000/…
01:46
Reading all these notes from previous classes are helpful.
02:18
@Mysticial tell me when you're here
@nightcracker Just no
@Mgetz yes, any C++-specifc feature is not C, therefore you can only assume C when someone says C/C++
@nightcracker no I downvote the question for tag spamming
@nightcracker Anyone saying C/C++ is a moron anyway.
what question are you talking about? I'm just talking about the concept C/C++
@Rapptz I agree
02:27
If they don't specify you're free to pick whichever.
If they don't like it they should have been more specific. Their problem.
@nightcracker there is no concept of C/C++ they are distinct and independent languages that are in many respects (and in very many standards respects) completely incompatible
We are experiencing issues with a redis upgrade - working to get #stackoverflow stable ASAP.
@Mgetz In many respects they are independent, however there is a common subset. For example int f(int a, int b) { return a + b; } is exactly the same in both languages. C/C++ is that common subset.
so aside from primitive operations and functions... we're really not talking about much, which is why I don't bother. Even atomics are not compatible between the two (due to a screw up on the C committee AFAIK)
@Mgetz Saying you don't bother with something is not the same as saying that "there is no such concept". I don't bother with the term C/C++ either, but I do think it's a valid well-defined concept.
02:40
@nightcracker I don't, I think it's a well defined dream. One that is constantly in flux and not very well defined.
either way I'm off
@nightcracker That should be "C/++C" ,and evaluated left to right to get the value of the result: 0.
@JerryCoffin but what if C == -1?
also isn't that UB because / is not a sequence point?
@nightcracker That's why I said "evaluated left to right".
@JerryCoffin ah, this is of course from your magical language, PO/NY?
went to an irc chat and I'm shocked: <petrusho> I use globals all the time
<petrusho> especially if I have to avoid memory fragmentation
02:49
TIL the stack fragments
@nightcracker No, not magical. It just does what I want instead of what I tell it.
@JerryCoffin :O
@JerryCoffin where can I download this language?
@nightcracker You don't have enough memory for it. First you need to download more RAM.
ok thanks
ok it says the download was complete
@nightcracker intellisis.com, and enter any 11-digit prime to continue...
02:56
I have 13337 rep!
that's even better than just 1337
user3010322
Quick, someone ruin his day.
@JerryCoffin where must I enter the prime?
@ThePhD done
user3010322
... I wasn't being serious. But good job!
well
you can undo it
by downvoting his answers 10 times
03:01
@nightcracker It's a big web site, but you'll find it there somewhere if you're persistent.
> Must be a US citizen without dual citizenship
what the fuck
IRS
@nightcracker that sucks.
@Rapptz why is the IRS relevant?
IRS is always relevant.
03:07
@Rapptz In this case, it's apparently more about the DoD. We work on some projects that even I (US citizen without dual citizenship, and have held a Secret security clearance for roughly 30 years) still can't know anything about.
I have a dual citizenship so I guess I can't work there :p
I'm only surmising that it's DoD, but when I was hired, they seemed quite interested in the fact that I have a secret clearance.
what is DoD?
Department of Defence
Department of Defense.
03:10
Good morning.
@MarkGarcia good evening.
@MarkGarcia Hello.
:)
@Rapptz @JerryCoffin Which of those is the real American spelling?
Defense
> The Patriotic Party or Patriot Party or (Partido Patriota) is a centre-right political party in Guatemala.
is it just me, or is their logo a giant fap hand?
03:17
@AlexM. Fap power
partido fapiota
el fappo
el pais de fapiota
don't know how to make an accent mark for i
so, decision time
@AlexM. decision time?
03:21
do I leave these not implemented methods (existing because of base interface, they throw System.NotImplementedException) here and let the professor know I was a lazy fuck and didn't bother implementing them
or remove them from the interface altogether and say something like
WHOOPS, I FORGOT, I MEANT TO SPLIT THOSE IN TWO AND FORGOT ABOUT THAT PART
Why not just implement them? Do you have other things to do?
I wish unordered_set/map have some kind of transparent key support like those of map/set.
@cyberspace009 yes
I don't have time
user3010322
@MarkGarcia Transparent key support?
@MarkGarcia transparent key?
03:23
@AlexM. when is it due?
how is that relevant?
Sorry. Transparent comparison IIRC again.
you don't know what the assignment is about, you don't know how hard it would be to implement the methods
@MarkGarcia can you give an example?
@AlexM. I guess you can come back to it later. But if time is short, fuck it.
03:24
if I could come back to it later I wouldn't be asking myself what to do in this situation
I just removed them from the interface
I'll say I forgot about that part
@AlexM. then do option 2.
It's a pain to use a data member as the key for unordered_set.
And we have such a slow internet connection...
fuck me, the methods were listed in the UML already and if I remove them from there too I'll look like a retard more than like someone who forgot about things :A
@MarkGarcia why so?
@nightcracker You can use a different key type for stuff like searching, indexing, as long as the comparison function supports comparing the given key with the set's/map's key type. e.g. std::set<std::string> my_set; my_set.find("blah");. Note that "blah" is really const char *.
03:29
@MarkGarcia only since c++14
user3010322
@Rapptz I shipped off one project! It's platformer time!
@MarkGarcia and only if your new comparison function maintains the same order
@nightcracker Like, if your member (accessed through a getter or directly, which doesn't really matter) is std::string, you cannot use an std::string as a key for searching for that element.
@nightcracker I know, and I want it for unordered_*.
@MarkGarcia that's impossible
@nightcracker Why not? For unordered_* also to maintain the same hash.
03:34
@MarkGarcia you mean that calling the specified hash function on the new key type should return the same result arbitrarily?
What I'm currently considering is to use std::unordered_map with either a duplicate of the key (hah!) or a pointer to the key of some sort.
@nightcracker Yes. Same concept as with transparent comparators. They must provide consistent hashes for the types.
@MarkGarcia can't you use polymorphism through the reference?
actually no
never mind that
@nightcracker Hmm. Really haven't thought of that, though the thought of virtual functions for hashing gives me the creeps.
What I'm really trying to achieve are static values with precomputed hashes. Instead of providing, e.g. a string as the key, you use those values. You get a bit of perf and more importantly static checking.
user3010322
user3010322
It's bigger and better!
03:45
@ThePhD what are you talking about?
@MarkGarcia you can use a wrapper type
@ThePhD that's what she said
@nightcracker Yes. Also am considering using boost::variant.
@MarkGarcia with non-explicit constructors defined from both the actual thing you're storing as well as any other keys you want to use
but I agree with you, it's not actually impossible
and they could've just done the same transparent behaviour
although maybe they didn't want to mess with std::hash
cause you'd need like std::hash<T>::is_transparent_with<OtherType>
@nightcracker Oh my. Thanks. That actually make sense for my stuff.
03:53
We have completed the #redis 2.8.12 upgrade and are addressing the issues that caused #stackoverflow to be offline for a few minutes.
@Feeds k
I flagged feed like 3 times
for spamming
what a waste of flags
what's the point in flagging a bot?
@AlexM. Spreading the annoyance.
04:12
no
the point is to try and stop the bot from spamming in the channel
ask Mysticial to remove the bot then?
afaik he added it
@nightcracker #banthatbot
@AlexM. aren't there rules against bots in the chat room?
no
I was working on a bot for SE chatrooms before too
its point was to try and understand what people say and play trivia
EL&U have a nice bot with which you can play hangman
oh wow
> ignore this user
also, user ID -2?
why would you use signed integers for ID?!
Negative integers are special accounts
So if they want to make another special account it'd be -3
not 129129874
04:31
@nightcracker SQL Server doesn't have unsigned integers.
why do every one leave their computer on.
@cyberspace009 because it goes into sleep mode?
lol. This image of Satya Nadella is named hero_large.jpg.
@AlexM. ^
05:23
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Dvorak#Criticisms_of_new_technology: In 1984 John C. Dvorak stated the mouse as a reason the Macintosh would fail: “The Macintosh uses an experimental pointing device called a ‘mouse’. There is no evidence that people want to use these things.” [San Francisco Examiner on February 19th, 1984]

> In his 2007 article for Marketwatch regarding the iPhone, Dvorak wrote "If [Apple's] smart, it will call the iPhone a 'reference design' and pass it to some suckers to build with someone else's marketing budget. Then it can wash its hands of any marketplace fail
Much fail.
user3010322
Lol.
user3010322
Maybe that's why his keyboard sucks too.
@ThePhD According to the article it's he's nephew that created the Dvorak.
user3010322
Failure runs in the family. :3c
lol. Highly probable.
05:29
I'm don't think most people would ever consider switching keyboard layouts
05:39
@MarkGarcia You've mostly missed the point: like almost everybody else in his position, he predicts nearly every new product to be both a booming success and a shattering failure. On one hand, he can later point to how brilliantly he predicted the success of new products. On the other hand, somebody else who looks can point to where he mis-predicted all of the same products.
That said, if you're into that sort of crap, I used to find Robert Cringely's (sp?) column rather more entertaining (and about equally informative, which is to pretty close to "not at all").
@JerryCoffin I guess so. Either way, product success predictions really are just a way of the author making a part in marketing (or the opposite) the product. Also to fill column space.
@MarkGarcia Quite true--and both of those have included quite a bit that doesn't really even pretend to be anything but filling column space.
what he said about the mouse just reminds me of this: youtube.com/watch?v=-QR0fNl4bOo&t=1m13s
05:54
@JerryCoffin I'm contented with ZDNet articles' comment sections. Lots of really entertaining crap there.
@MarkGarcia I hope you'll forgive me if you take your word for that without doing an extensive investigation of my own.
@JerryCoffin Haha. I'll try.
> the character of Cringely changed dramatically (morphing from a private eye type to a slick, womanizing tech insider)
lol
@JerryCoffin I think there's a lot of fail in tech reporting, just look at how all of them think solar roadways are the way of the future. It's laughable.
@AaronKyleKilleen Yogi Berra was right though: "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."
That said, I think a lot of predictions are based a lot more on wishing than really thinking.
@jerrycoffin it is hard, but this solar roadways boondoggle just shows that they're not even willing or capable to do some basic back of the envelope calculations
06:06
inb4 paper to prove it
@AaronKyleKilleen That's the problem with most "bleeding edge" tech publications today. Most of their articles are about the future, products that aren't yet substantiated. What I really liked was Byte magazine's (the old 1990s one) coverage of actual, cutting edge tech. They'll even get to the point to provide ~5 whole pages of info just to cover something, like a processor architecture.
@AlexM. I don't think I would have listed any papers if people didn't start demanding them, but people seem to only do that when you make claims about race, gender, IQ or other sensitive topics.
On that note, I think I'm off to bed. TTYL.
@JerryCoffin Good night.
06:15
In the future Kickstarter will have a button that lets you take money away from projects as well as back them.
06:42
TIL 1-30 particles of the common cold virus are sufficient for infection
@StackedCrooked I once worked on NGS and one thing you learn is that viruses are very different. No single capsid has a working version of the genome, you need many just for the genetic material to reproduce.
Interesting. (Even though I don't understand what you are saying.)
Oh, so a single virus is not sufficient to reproduce itself?
Yes, due high rates of genetic mutation and perhaps packing
Its even worse when you ask what is the DNA of the virus. You run it and realize every fucking one is different...
To a smaller extent this happens in bacterial that share plasmids...
But in humans it doesn't really happen
06:48
@Mikhail then how do you know they belong to the same strain?
Histogram, its not very precise. BUT it justifies the de-novo assembly stuff I was doing. If DNA didn't change you would only need to de-novo assemble once and I would have been outta job
07:00
good evening ( or morning for some of you )
Good afternoon.
that too :)
Its not evening anywhere?
its like midnight in SF
yes it's evening here as well
san fran, nice
I don't actually live there, its just my most frequent SSH destination
07:02
@Mikhail lol ok gotcha
so anyway. I'll cut to the chase. I know everyone in the web switched to git, but I am more of conventional guy so to speak. and I've got a weird SVN issue.. C++ guys always know what's up haha
0
Q: SVN blame - Network connection closed unexpectedly

mmmshuddupI'm suddenly getting a weird error when I try to run svn blame $ svn blame file.txt svn: Network connection closed unexpectedly This worked before and I haven't updated the version of SVN on my machine in a long time. Currently using 1.6.11 $ svn --version svn, version 1.6.11 (r934486) compi...

@ThePhD so now you're gonna do vector text after all? :v
also, not sure if you want to implement nanovg for dx...it is a bit cruddy :/
user1804599
@mmmshuddup lol network needed for that
@JerryCoffin it's true. some people are even dumb enough to think time travel will eventually happen.. and in our lifetime! D:
@rightfold I was running that locally. connection works. commits work and updates work. just can't run diffs or blame.. and possibly more I haven't checked
@mmmshuddup if it ever gets invented, you can just go back in time and back-port the tech :p
@melak47 lol which means we'd already be seeing it because someone else would have thought of that
07:13
maybe the future is full of people respectin' the temporal prime directive :p
they took heed to doc brown's advice not to mess with the past :P
user1804599
Clone the repository and try again.
user1804599
With a local server.
@rightfold ok thanks for responding. I'll do that tomorrow it's super late here and I wanna be able to start and finish in the same setting haha
07:26
07:40
@melak47 no, you can't! Go watch Primer!
I like who in america, 'ice cream' is regulated, so it has to actually meet some basic standards to be called such, but 'gelato' can basically be any old crap
¬_¬ can we not star @Feeds posting xkcd
user1804599
xkcd of today is TLDR.
I could try to sell you milk and call it coffee. But nobody's gonna take that.
user1804599
I would.
user1804599
Because coffee sucks and milk is yummy.
07:46
Latte
@rightfold nederlander
user1804599
@StackedCrooked bleg
user1804599
> Is it supports Zoon-In & Zoom-Out?

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