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00:00
Installing Ubuntu is super fast.
Ell
Ell
@tony yeah. I'm planning my perfect set up still
I have VMs with various distros, but they're all on my other box, that I never turn on
Ell
Ell
Gonna do it with arch
I need to make better Ubuntu base boxes, the ones built by Ubuntu boot like 30 seconds
because it isn't plugged in
00:00
@Ell Well, when you use the MSVC debugger, then when you select a stack frame, you can just mouseover your locals to see the values. So you can see both your source and the values at the same time really quickly. Whereas in GDB it involves a bunch of shitting around moving through 20 stdlib internal stack frames, open the source on your other screen, vaguely remember the member name and then find out that it's a std::string and print can't even handle that.
Ell
Ell
But if I just set up a new distro it doesn't take long at all
gdb on Windows is pretty lame
I don't have much experience with GDB
so here's something more complex that I like: stack frames.
won't lie
00:01
Also describe your workstation with Puppet or Chef and have it be built automatically
@Puppy bt
There are awesome tools out there
produces a bunch of worthless noise most of the time that fills up the screen so you can barely see what's relevant, which is usually like the top 2-3 frames.
So just like MSVC
You can limit the amount of frames you print
Ell
Ell
Have you read the gdb manual?
00:02
I always get confused reading stack traces
@Puppy bt 2 or bt 3
@Ell lol
of course he didn't
yes, but that doesn't matter because you have to see them to decide whether or not you don't need to see them.
if you have a stack frame, then whether or not you need to see it probably depends on whether it's the implementation of std::move or not.
VS can just cut that shit out automatically.
and viewing locals, it's massively easier to view a local variable in VS than with GDB
@R.MartinhoFernandes stdlib implementation detail stack frames.
00:04
thank fuck I don't code much C++ anymore at work
@Puppy info locals?
and even trying to figure out where a given stack frame is in GDB requires finding the source file and then manually trying to match the line numbers
instead of just double click and there you go.
Have you considered actually reading the GDB manual before you criticise it for not having a UI?
Hmm, yeah.
I'll just let you go on making a fool of yourself instead of actually helping.
00:05
Do not discuss tooling with Puppy is what I'm getting
^ yea what Cat says
Also I should try out Atom
I guess so.
@CatPlusPlus What's that?
So, a decent GUI for gdb.
00:05
The new fancy GitHub's editor
@Rapptz The only thing I'll say is for the most part you dont need a manual to use MSVC's debugger. Where as you pretty much do for gdb.
Since they actually figured out Windows builds
This will be my next project.
@Borgleader Really? You're saying all the information of using VS's debugger is automatically implanted in my mind from the get-go?
Cool.
00:07
I thought atom supported only web related technologies (JS, HTML, CSS, ...).
It's built with that, not supports only that
That'd be really dumb text editor
(That cheat sheet could be a lot better, but I can't find a better one around)
@Rapptz No but it's intuitive enough that for most tasks I need it for I haven't had to look up how it needs to be done I just figured it out rather easily.
and thats that.
MSVC doesn't psychically implant the knowledge of how to use the debugger into your mind, but it certainly does not require manual-reading to figure out
There's a lot to complain about GDB's interface, but thinking it consists of manually finding the source file and then manually trying to match the line numbers is just ludicrous.
00:09
You don't really have to read the entire manual to know how to use it.
if you run bt, that is the information you get.
Laughable, actually.
user3010322
Work is almost over but there's so much to do...
Learning how to watch variables, stepping in/out, viewing locals and anything basic literally takes maybe 10 minutes tops.
Ell
Ell
I wonder how lldb is going
user3010322
00:10
Not very.
The priority for them is OSX as usual
Ell
Ell
Also I have to wake up in 2 and a half hours
what other process did you have in mind?
@Ell fail =/
Ell
Ell
I should be sleeping before I try to wake up
00:11
@Rapptz Viewing locals is fine until you want to view a std::string.
Ell
Ell
I'll sleep soonish
There are printers for standard types
the prettyprinters are automatically there on Windows
if you waste my time having me dick around trying to find them online then that's time that I'm not spending debugging my program (also, I did find some and they're really not that great)
in MinGW-w64 anyway
00:12
like, if you have a std::vector<std::string> and you print it, then the vector is prettyprinted but the contents are not.
Oh no development environment taking time to setup that one time after install
Just terrible
for Standard library types, then yes, that is terrible.
that's time I'm not spending debugging my program.
and like I said, the results I got from the prettyprinters I managed to find aren't even comparable anyway
Yes. It's a lot better to spend more time debugging your program.
every type had it's own distinct command and they didn't nest
user3010322
I hate style cop so badly. And they actually want me to follow all the rules.
user3010322
00:15
I think I'll just turn off all the rules.
Do constexpr functions express mathematical functions (for which f(x) = f(x) always, for example)?
ohhhh, just found out I can get faster internetz here
so when my current contract runs out, I'll be done with the shitty 3Mbits or whatever it is
@ThePhD the ordering rules are nice
(gdb) print s
$1 = std::vector of length 2, capacity 2 = {"hello", "world"}
(gdb) list
8       }
9
10      int main() {
11          std::vector<std::string> s = { "hello", "world" };
:v
I was curious
00:17
I wasn't. I use that every day. Or used to, until I got tasked with hell.
Well I don't recall ever having an issue
> This package added 16ms to startup time.
user3010322
@JohanLarsson I think those are the worst, actually.
This is kinda neat
Anyway, as all other things.
As people like to say: "git gud"
:d
user3010322
00:19
I like git reky'd
Git gud, scrub
It's important to add that
user3010322
filthy casul
@R.MartinhoFernandes :(
I still would like tui on Windows though.
Would really make things a little more painless for me
No
λ gdb -tui
C:\mingw64\bin\gdborig.exe: TUI mode is not supported
ncurses doesn't work on Windows
rip
@ThePhD why? Good to know where tings are when working on shared code imo.
user3010322
@JohanLarsson That's what F12 is for.
00:22
And PDCurses doesn't work as drop-in replacement
@JohanLarsson Ctrl+N with R#, git gud
It might be in Cygwin's GDB though
I should work on my projects...
Reports usage information to Google Analytics

This package added 905ms to startup time.
user3010322
You should help me port Furrovine to OpenGL and then help me work with FreeType and THEN help me render random bezier curves and splines and fill in arbitrary shapes. :D
00:24
NOPE
posted on July 12, 2014 by Scott Meyers

A full draft of Effective Modern C++ is now available through O'Reilly's Early Release program and Safari Books Online's Rough Cuts program. The cover design for the book has changed. I'm the common crane no longer. Now I'm the fruit dove. I'm not sure what to make of this. Is going from common to fruity an upgrade? My editor explained the reason for the avian switcheroo: Since we are going

@CatPlusPlus adds a new file for me
But there is a plugin to display release notes of Atom in Atom
My server's birthday is coming up.
@JohanLarsson Get R#
00:25
I have it
Then you use non-R# keybindings CAN'T HELP YOU WITH THAT
@R.MartinhoFernandes Where did you get them? The ones I found on Google don't work that way (if at all)
user3010322
... RIght.
They're included with libstdc++
user3010322
Struct's can't have initializers
00:26
@Puppy Nowhere. I just installed gdb and called it a day.
It comes pre-installed.
user3010322
Because there's a difference between value types and structs...
not on my system
user3010322
welp. Bump using a struct then.
user3010322
Classes for everyone!
00:26
It does on Windows.
Like I said.
If you use MinGW-w64 it's there
sure, but I'm talking about Ubuntu.
@ThePhD Define initialiser
I mean, maybe this is just Ubuntu being shit, which I guess I should expect by now
Depends on the Ubuntu version.
I don't know if Ubuntu switched to Python 3
14., er, 04 or 10
00:27
cause the prettyprinters have issues with Python 3
I use Ubuntu at work, and AFAIK I didn't install anything special.
14.10 would be hard to get right now
Time travel being unsolved problem and all that
FWIW, it's still an old release.
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus private Foo blah = Foo.Woof;
user3010322
C#
user3010322
00:28
Because all structs must be 0-initialized
user3010322
because they're value-types and ~~~PERFORMANCE~~~
initialize in ctor?
Does Ubuntu 14.04 come with Python 3 by default?
user3010322
The default ctor I can't write, sure.
@ThePhD Nnno?
00:29
@CatPlusPlus In C#? Yes.
@R.MartinhoFernandes right
@R.MartinhoFernandes It has g++ 4.8.2 so I figured it should be recent enough.
@Rapptz It has both side-by-side
But the default is 2
user3010322
The reason you're not allowed to define a default constructor or set value initializers in a struct is apparently because structs expect to be 0-initialized for safety reasons and for performance reasons.
00:30
I have 4.8.something too, but running on Ubuntu 13.xx.
user3010322
The thought itself is hilarious, though. What if I define a struct which has an enum which does not define 0 as one of its enum values?
user3010322
Will C# forcibly initialize it to crap?
user3010322
Does it error?
when I had issues with the prettyprinters on debian I had to use 2to3 on it
00:30
@ThePhD Try it?
@ThePhD It initialises it to zero.
I don't like C# value types
@Puppy I dunno offhand which gdb version I have running there, but it's 7+ for sure.
On the machine from the screenshot above it's 7.7.1
7.7 here
Same here.
00:33
also, I double-checked gdb's help for the stack, and it makes no mention of any list command.
nor does gdb's help for viewing data give "info locals" as a viable command.
list shows source code, not the stack.
I don't use it since I have TUI.
I use list cause I do not have TUI :(
@Puppy Use the cheat sheet I posted above to find basic commands.
a stack frame is meaningless data without source code to correspond to
user3010322
@Borgleader Turns out it errors. ideone.com/JAd1a6
00:34
@Puppy Do you use tui?
@Puppy With TUI the source view just jumps to it as I navigate the stack.
Cause it does it automatically
up and down move up and down the stack frames.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not saying that there are not more commands that make life easier. I'm simply saying that if you do what GDB tells you to and ask it what commands it supports in certain areas, it doesn't mention them.
user3010322
00:35
So rather than just let me define a default constructor and assume default-initialization for everything I don't touch, it will instead give me an error later on. At least the error is accurate.
frame n jumps directly to a specific frame.
user3010322
Not that this is truly a problem anyhow.
@ThePhD Opportunity for "Wat watinthebutt" missed. I am disappoint (also, lel)
I've checked, GDB in 14.04 is linked with Py3
@Jefffrey I stopped at "Please tell me more" no one said that, ever :P
00:36
@ThePhD Control group: ideone.com/dBbhTo
so I guess that means you have to use 2to3 to fix the prettyprinters
TUI = Translation Unit Independency?
Text user interface dummy
text user interface
00:36
Oh, yeah.
Well, textual maybe
Can't be unseen, robot.
user3010322
Oh, my initialization syntax is wrong.
> The GDB Text User Interface (TUI)
user3010322
00:37
I need a new.
@Rapptz I have no idea what that is.
Next time you use GDB
invoke it with gdb -tui
It's the interface I have in the screenshot above.
it shows you the source code window and allows you to view other windows too
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Control Group versus Userstudy 1.
00:39
You can press C-x C-a to start it while running.
user3010322
So there is no error @Borgleader.
user3010322
It just zeroes the thing.
user3010322
... For safety.
@ThePhD Told you it was zero.
yeah, the cheat sheet does not mention any means of setting a breakpoint that does not involve navigating source code/line numbers manually
user3010322
00:40
Yeah, I know it was zero, I was just wondering if this is a violation of the type system.
(gdb) print locals
$1 = {
  <std::_Vector_base<std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >, std::allocator<std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > > >> = {
    _M_impl = {
      <std::allocator<std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > >> = {
        <__gnu_cxx::new_allocator<std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > >> = {<No data fields>}, <No data fields>},
      members of std::_Vector_base<std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >, std::alloca
user3010322
Probably is. Maybe I should ask on SO and get free repz.
00:41
I don't think Ubuntu 14 packages ship with the printers at all
@ThePhD Nope.
@CatPlusPlus lol
lol, Atom opened once, and now the process launches but the window doesnt show
@Rapptz The Py2/Py3 demon strikes again!
@Rapptz I don't have the indicated directory.
00:42
Guess you don't have the prettyprinters then.
Ubuntu is shit
3
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Awww, but... but repz. ;~;
@ThePhD I mean, it's not.
Ask away.
I should try out CentOS some day
@Rapptz I think it's just installed in a different location, I don't have any gcc folders in /usr/share.
00:44
Nope
vagrant@vagrant-ubuntu-trusty-64:~$ locate printers.py
/usr/share/gdb/python/gdb/command/pretty_printers.py
/usr/share/gdb/python/gdb/command/type_printers.py
/usr/share/gdb/python/gdb/command/pretty_printers.py
/usr/share/gdb/python/gdb/command/type_printers.py
vagrant@vagrant-ubuntu-trusty-64:~$ apt-file search /usr/share/gcc-4.8/python/libstdcxx
libstdc++6-4.8-dbg: /usr/share/gcc-4.8/python/libstdcxx/__init__.py
libstdc++6-4.8-dbg: /usr/share/gcc-4.8/python/libstdcxx/v6/__init__.py
libstdc++6-4.8-dbg: /usr/share/gcc-4.8/python/libstdcxx/v6/printers.py
Ha, you need to install the dbg packages.
warning: File "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6.0.19-gdb.py" auto-loading has been declined by your `auto-load safe-path' set to "$debugdir:$datadir/auto-load".
:lol:
/usr/lib not safe path
who ships a compiler and a debugger without debug packages...
00:46
Ubuntu
Be glad they install -dev
@Puppy Refer to Cat's starred message :|
yes.
Piece of crap.
It doesn't even work anyway
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6.0.19-gdb.py", line 63, in <module>
from libstdcxx.v6.printers import register_libstdcxx_printers
ImportError: No module named 'libstdcxx'
00:47
so we can safely state that, 1), Ubuntu is shit, and 2), that part of the GDB interface that lists relevant commands is particularly shit
@R.MartinhoFernandes What distro do you use?
Okay, betting time
Gentoo I think
Is that -dbg package in universe or not
dun dun dun
the only thing I like from Ubuntu is the Unity HUD thing
00:48
@Borgleader Ubuntu at work because I couldn't bother dealing with some other distro in UEFI back then and haven't had the resolve to just nuke it. Gentoo elsewhere.
ah well
Surprisingly, it's not
It's in main
This is a package in Ubuntu main
I suspect that instead, I'll simply switch to x64 on Windows.
then build Wide in release for running tests.
@CatPlusPlus Impressive.
ah well
00:50
Fuck Ubuntu sideways with a burning rake
@R.MartinhoFernandes Eh, whenever I think of Gentoo I think of RMS (don't ask me why) =/
at least now I have a website which is functional enough
Oh Wow, there website is straight out of the 90s
congrats on the retro look =/
00:51
hmm
the Wide site doesn't look so good on Linux.
the spacing is all a little smaller, so the text doesn't fit properly
@Puppy nothing does har har har
It never stops surprising me how other distros manage to 1) carry packages that are not broken and 2) carry packages that are more up-to-date while at the same time a) lacking strong corporate backing and b) being rolling release distros; meanwhile Ubuntu fails at both 1) and 2) and doesn't even have a) or b). It's a special level of fail.
ah well
@Borgleader I use it because it has hands down the best package manager and the best repositories.
00:54
Vulnerability in Windows Kernel allows arbitrary code execution of any Windows version from XP to Win 8.1 Patch was released on July 8 th, 2014 (MS14-040) Essentially a dangling pointer and double free lets you play in the freed memory. Weeeee
Gentoo installation procedure is a bit daunting.
I feel like this might hurt me in the future
@Rapptz Installing the Ask Toolbar?
Why would it?
00:55
The Ask Toolbar
That's a driver installation dialog
Urgh Ask Toolbar
I know, I'm just kidding.
@CatPlusPlus That comes with the Ask Toolbar!
I hope they never read this.
I got '20% OFF MouseCraft'
What the hell is MouseCraft
And why
00:56
> MouseCraft - The Cheesiest Game Ever
> Ever wondered what a cross between Tetris and Lemmings would look like?
No
Not really
I imagine Toolbar being the name of a Sikh ready to answer your questions.
It's actually "Ask! Toolbar" I think.
Yes
Also
Why are those things still alive
Seriously
Xeo
Xeo
OKAY, I DID IT. I ordered my fucking PC. Gonna build it sometime next week, hopefully.
00:58
@Xeo Great success :D Youhave to post pictures!
did you make room for SLI?
Xeo
Xeo
I ended up not going with Mindfactory, due to the price screw-ups
Still an expensive PSU :v
@Xeo Nice pick on the SSD
@Xeo gratz
Xeo
Xeo
00:59
I found all the parts for the priced I wanted (and originally saw on Mindfactory) on another site.

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