« first day (1007 days earlier)      last day (3955 days later) » 

1:06 PM
Who is this?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well if the CEO is already that stupid, just tell them that the work would take more than twice as long.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes off shore software companies? how do they defend against pirates?
 
IME off-shore outsourcers reduces expenses at the cost of not delivering the product
 
@melak47 very good
off-shore outsources can't speak any fucking English, never mind write C++ code
> sir , i am here 2 help u. pls tell me about the problem with ur codes i will work hard for u to fix the problem. tia sir xx — Sandeep Singh, Chennai, OffshoreOutsources Inc.
 
> The paper dealt only with pair programming, which is a narrow concept in which two people are paid to do the work of 1.
 
1:13 PM
Guy is hilarious.
 
Still the pair programming paper linked above (comments).
 
Linked where?
 
Oh, I don't see the things he says.
Thanks.
 
1:15 PM
What are unit tests?
 
In computer programming, unit testing is a method by which individual units of source code, sets of one or more computer program modules together with associated control data, usage procedures, and operating procedures, are tested to determine if they are fit for use. Intuitively, one can view a unit as the smallest testable part of an application. In procedural programming a unit could be an entire module but is more commonly an individual function or procedure. In object-oriented programming a unit is often an entire interface, such as a class, but could be an individual method. Unit t...
 
ITT "Capers Jones"
 
He constantly avoids any requests for data sources, citing NDAs or some shit, or just asks the other guy to provide refuting data instead of him providing backing data. Or just plays the "outsourcing costs half" card.
Neverending source of fallacies.
 
So singletons are bad for unit tests because you aren't testing just that unit anymore?
 
@Pawnguy7 Yes.
 
1:17 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you plonked sehe? :p
 
Singletons create hidden coupling.
That makes it hard to isolate cohesive units to test.
 
41 mins ago, by sehe
^^ There's my comment in reply to his (still awaiting moderation). I have a feeling the author is only licking his way up with his "massive clients" /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes @Xeo @DeadMG
 
> You will also find papers on the economic fallacy of “cost per defect” and the untrue claim that cost per defect goes up exponentially.
WTF he keeps refuting his own metrics.
 
@Pawnguy7 singletons don't separate units properly
 
It sounds like he has some kind of split personality or something.
 
1:19 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit if you just made that up, you're scarily talented
 
Or maybe he's just a rambling idiot.
 
Yup, that's the "licking his way up with his ""masive clients""" part I sensed
 
I am with pair programming with my rubber duck polar bear :v
 
I am pair programming with the Lounge and under the impression that it lowers my productivity
 
:D
 
1:22 PM
I have a vision for a new front mater:
"Capers & Jones"
A modern day Jekyll and Hyde
 
@kbok oic, that might be why my pullrequest still hangs there :F
 
He's like "You are absolutely right that this paper of mine uses completely bollocks metrics, and I agree with it and have published papers that confirm that and suggest better metrics. However my conclusions from this paper are totally true because pair programming is paying two people to do the work of one."
 
gleaming with reason.
 
"Oh, and none of you has provided any data to back up your claims. My data is under NDA so no data for you."
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He seems to be saying "I'm aware of the pitfalls", therefore: YOU MUST TRUST MY OPINION
 
1:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, I didn't see the notification
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Apt summary by the way
 
In my defense I am still sick and could fall asleep any moment
 
his timestamps are broken
and it looks like he's moderating so you'll never see my awesome reply
unless you fancy five paragraphs here
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Do you want me to run bets on what his answer will be?
 
ITT The Lounge is descending on Capers Jones'
 
1:25 PM
@thecoshman Especially here. We don't really care about studies because of how hard it is to find skilled workers in the games industry.
(Although starting and then not completing uni might be seen as a sign of laziness, so...)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes okay
 
@kbok oh. poor ya.
 
You wanna see it?
 
Odds are 4 to 7 on "My metrics are bollocks", 4 to 3 on "What if CEO gets an outsourcing offer for half the cost", 3 to 5 on "Paying two people for the work of one", and 5 to 4 on "Your dick projects are too small".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, and he seems to be trying to sell static analysis tools!
 
1:27 PM
:)
"You have no data. I have seen papers. Also, I have a 'pair programming calculator' that was really simple to put together and therefore must be accurate."
3
Typical person-who-doesn't-understand-the-creative-process.
 
Oh, right the mythical "pair programming calculator" :S
 
At first I thought he created a calculator using pair programming and got his metrics from that
 
> You can use your own data – no matter whose data you use so long as you pay two people to do the work of 1 person it costs more money - CJ
 
@kbok Me too. That was, before I saw the article
 
1:29 PM
@kbok haha
 
@refp: There's a major problem with your "I hope you cut the crap..." stuff. I started the conversation with a statement saying constexpr was basically a macro. You then jumped in and tried to impose your narrowminded definition of "macro" on me by claiming I was wrong. If I'd jumped into an existing conversation and tried to re-define a word, I'd be in the wrong. But in reality, that's exactly what you did.
 
That made more sense somehow
 
@JerryCoffin Cue Humpty Dumpty.
 
> You and I probably come from different forms of software. If you work on large systems with development staffs of more than 500 people involving more than 50 occupations building systems for more than 10,000 users
what a jerk.
 
Okay, well since none of you asked, I'm going to post my response here.
 
1:30 PM
Bah. This QA person has absolutely not idea what she is doing. She is supposed to test my deliverables on various *NIX machines. She can run the automated install but she does not know that she should pub .so files into lib :/
 
the arguments about small penis were spot on
 
@BartekBanachewicz My response was to that. I wonder whether it was moderated yet. Nope: "Your comment is awaiting moderation."
 
@JerryCoffin lol @ "your narrow-minded definition of 'macro'" - that's pretty well-defined in C++ contexts
 
@BartekBanachewicz On the contrary! He has huge bollocks!
 
> Dude, I know you're really busy misunderstanding the way that software is developed and building baseless assumptions on the ridiculous notion that programming is some sort of linear process where X effort goes in and Y lines of code come out at the same rate, and the also ridiculous notion that "number of lines of code" matters to anyone but clueless senior management and business school graduates.
> But, just before you get to discovering that programming is a creative process involving the discovering, acquisition, sharing and development of KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING which is inherently more efficient and effective with two brains than with one, and that you get a free knowledge transfer within your team for doing so....
 
1:32 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Also that's total bullshit. Assuming ~200 programmers, I hope the staff is subdivided in teams. You could well apply pair-programming on some projects in technical teams and leave the rest of the staff in more "classic" workflows
 
> would you please take a moment to spot that every comment on this post is already signed with your name, so you don't need to write yours all over again. We know who you are. Frankly, you could simply write under a pseudonym and we'd still be able to tell who you are, from the amusing nonsense that you're spewing.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what are you doing?
 
> Disclaimer: I dislike doing pair programming because I program by conceptualising, not by vocalising. By contrast, there are two on my team who work most effectively by bouncing ideas off each other at a fast pace, with a quick turnaround of idea and counter-idea. They find that they might otherwise go too far down the wrong path if it weren't for the quite counter-idea. We regular work on huge projects, and it still depends entirely on the INDIVIDUAL.
> You know, the INDIVIDUAL? A factor that no quantity of lines of code, or "function points" or whatever other management metric you've come up with to describe product tonnage, can remove from the equation of project management.
> It sounds like you've fallen in to the trap of thinking that "big project" must equate to "impersonal process" and "no teamwork" — in my experience this is a large contributing factor for large systems projects frequently failing to live up to expectations or, in some cases, any delivery promises whatsoever.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It could./would be if I hadn't started out from the very beginning making it very clear that I was not just talking about "macro" as the C and C++ preprocessors implement them.
 
1:32 PM
wow, pastebin, dude.
 
@JerryCoffin urlplz#!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes +1
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I did ask.
 
@kbok that would require common sense
 
If you guys get to post your favourite comments, then so do I!
 
1:33 PM
just don't make a wall of text from it
 
Although, ouch, too many grammar typos. Yuk
@BartekBanachewicz Next time I'll sing a song in between each paragraph then dickface :)
 
You guys have too much free time if you can read through the article and the discussion. TL;DR.
 
Not sure what you're expecting a chatroom to be if not a "wall of text"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I like "product tonnage"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I've copied like two lines :v
@LightnessRacesinOrbit
 
1:34 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No wonder that's being moderated
 
Is vector_instance[0][0].size() a bad idea to get the depth?
 
@kbok They all get moderated.
 
@kbok the guy got a point tho
 
@Pawnguy7 DIAF.
 
1:35 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes So do I :D
 
@Pawnguy7 why don't you copy the get function I wrote? Please
 
Man, quotes still mess with my head.
 
@BartekBanachewicz And as is often the case, it will fail to get across due to tone and style
 
@BartekBanachewicz This is for the blending. I was seperating the entire blend function into subparts. The part that actually draws it took the two panes, which are now vectors.
 
@Pawnguy7 Whenever I see [x][y] I automatically cringe
 
1:36 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Here is the genesis of the conversation -- where the 'i.e.' part makes clear exactly what I meant by "macro": something that happens at compile time instead of run time.
 
@kbok internets :/
 
@BartekBanachewicz [x][y]
 
@BartekBanachewicz as opposed to vector_instance.get(0).get(0).size()?
 
@JerryCoffin thanks
 
@Pawnguy7 vector_instance[smth(0, 0)].size()?
Boost.MultiArray has it almost right
 
1:37 PM
It is just, there is no chance of this segfaulting, as far as I can tell - just cycles through what is there.
 
@Pawnguy7 either my_packed_data.get(x,y) or what kbok siad
 
Unlike the actual generation.
 
@kbok hey, i like that.
 
@JerryCoffin refp's first response is perfectly valid. constexpr are macros about as much as templates are. Just because something happens at an earlier phase of compilation doesn't make it "a macro". Sure, they have some properties in common, but not many. Not enough.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Surely.
 
1:38 PM
Well, I have world.getColor(), etc.
This is just the blend panes.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You might like boost.org/doc/libs/1_54_0/libs/multi_array/doc/index.html although the main interface is a bit heavy IMO
 
@sehe Thanks @sehe, the lounge has thought me the true meaning of C++, RAII, and talking shit about other languages.
15
 
@Nican That's RAII
 
You will also be glad to know, my assignment operator now doesn't alter the source object :D
 
1:40 PM
Damnit
 
Resource Independence Is Autonomy!
 
hi guise
 
@kbok Simple one that does that would be a few lines :f
 
haha - finally, a valid flag.
 
1:40 PM
@Pawnguy7 You have violated Rule of 3 5
 
@BartekBanachewicz And that is?
 
@Pawnguy7 you don't have a copy ctor
 
@Pawnguy7 Let me google that for you...
 
@Tuntuni Shouldn't be needed.
 
469
Q: What is The Rule of Three?

FredOverflowWhat does copying an object mean? What are the copy constructor and the copy assignment operator? When do I need to declare them myself? How can I prevent my objects from being copied?

in my favs
 
1:42 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit And you clearly don't know what you're talking about either. I'll point out (yet again) that Lisp macros are a lot more capable than those in C and C++. For that matter, assemblers have provided macros that were much more capable since long before C++ existed at all.
 
Oh.
Is the idea that if you define one mode of copying, you should do all?
 
@Pawnguy7 yes
 
Make sense. I am pretty sure it will never get used, but it makes sense for non abnormal usage :D
Anything else?
 
What does the assignment op do to a World?
 
@Pawnguy7 if you need to modify default one, you need copy/move ctor, copy/move op= and dtor
hence Rule of Five
But Rule of Zero is better
 
1:43 PM
@BartekBanachewicz aw yis :)
 
simply don't change any of those :v
 
with rule of zero, do the implicitly generated ctors take care of moving, for example, a unique_ptr?
 
@Pawnguy7 In this case, it user-defining the assignment operator necessary? What's wrong with the default one?
 
Not sure how dtor would be related there. Are vectors safe for soft copies?
 
i've tried it and it says blah blah is not accessible
 
1:44 PM
@Pawnguy7 Also #pragma once already
 
@Pawnguy7 what is in your copy constructor?
 
maybe it's just MSVC
 
@Tuntuni it's a MSVS problem, and yes it's annoying as fuck
 
@Pawnguy7 Sure.
 
@BartekBanachewicz expected. indeed :(
 
1:45 PM
@kbok Ah. Previously I had a ***, and it was not safe for such copies. Good to know, though.
 
just don't remind me
 
@BartekBanachewicz :p
 
@Pawnguy7 Though vector<vector<vector<>>> sucks, you better get a vector of T and translate the coordinates
 
@Pawnguy7 that was so extremely retarded...
yeah, nesting vectors leads to fragmented memory
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit make it a single message. Will auto-shrink with 'show more' button. Or pastebin
 
1:47 PM
I suppose with the reworking of the world, I could have a single vector. If I could remember how you do that thing.
 
@Pawnguy7 What I usually do it create a vector3_index class that holds (x, y, z) with a methods that translates (using (w, h)) from and to a flat collection
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it's like a white raven or a narwal
 
Then your operator[] takes either vector3_index of tuple<uint, uint, uint> or whatever
@Pawnguy7 Also get yourself a coordinates class already
 
template<unsigned sizeX, unsigned sizeY>
struct v3index {
   unsigned operator()(unsigned x, unsigned y, unsigned z) {
       return x + y * sizeX + z * sizeX * sizeY;
   }
};
@Pawnguy7 you can freely steal my coord classes from minicraft
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh so it's a 1d vector acting as a 3d vector and you use that helper to translate the coords?
 
1:53 PM
@Tuntuni kinda.
 
@JerryCoffin For the record, "you clearly don't know what you're talking about either" is where I stopped listening to your argument and walked away from this conversation.
Expected better.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Way to not learn anything.
 
I'm open to learning ... from those are willing to teach whilst not being utter dicks about it.
 
can somebody explain something simple to me... when i do objdump -t on some libstdc++ i see something like vec_ctor, vec_dtor... but I thought that vectors are templates and that they only get compiled if you use them in your program. Aka they should not be in libstdc++
 
Also, way to condescend.
I remember back in Uni the CU would go around advertising these "pancake sessions" where they would "offer free pancakes, and answer questions". As if only they could ever possibly have the answers. Totally unwilling to consider even for a moment that they might have something to learn too.
The pancakes were pretty good, though.
Needed more sugar
 
1:56 PM
@BartekBanachewicz think it should have no declared constructors, and have a size() ?
 
I linked an answer that does what you need. Your wording seems to suggest you'd actually want to compile from a string to an (optimized) expression template. This is obviously impossible, unless you count generating c++ code or using libclang to emit JIT-table llvm bytecode on the fly :/ — sehe 20 secs ago
I'm not sure, but that question seemed confused enough
 
@Pawnguy7 what should have no declared constructors again?
 
@BartekBanachewicz this vector coordinate class.
 
Oh, I figured out why FB was making sounds on sending outgoing messages.
 

« first day (1007 days earlier)      last day (3955 days later) »