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17:04
True enough.
pertinent
^ That's a word, right?
I haven't lost my mind?
yesh
its also a word in french
and in italian
Adjective
Relevant or applicable to a particular matter; apposite.
huh
well, it's more like "pertinente"
17:11
Amazon have billed me 40 times more than usual for my use of AWS in May
this conversation is not pertinent to C++
@DeadMG 40 times?!?
litb is ill :(
Xeo
Xeo
17:12
@DeadMG AWS?
and the same for quite a few months prior, despite the fact that I have a bill alarm set up.
@Xeo Amazon Web Services.
Or something.
Xeo
Xeo
ah
@Xeo Apparently We Suck
@DeadMG You use AWS for your website only or other things?
17:13
@DeadMG You ran out of free tier?
Or something
@CatPlusPlus No, I knew about that.
for most of the prior months I paid about half a dollar for my month's usage total.
but during 2013, it seems to have been 20 dollars instead.
So now you have to pay 20 dollars?
0.5 * 40 -> 20
(My keyboard has the 8 key between 2 and 0, I swear)
That's S3, EC2?
Xeo
Xeo
17:15
mhm
EC2
AWS is pretty fucking expensive.
yeah
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mine too - if you go from the 0 down and wrap around over the top.
You were running on discount before that.
17:15
no
their bill emails are just very confusing and unhelpful.
its reliable though isnt it?
0.5$/month for EC2 never happens, unless you run the instance for like 10 minutes per month.
yeah
I got an email each month saying that my bill was over $0.5 and was currently about $0.6
so I was like, "Well, 0.6 isn't a big deal".
Xeo
Xeo
Per day?
but turns out that only referred to about the first day of each month.
Xeo
Xeo
17:17
lol
I considered EC2, but as usual dedicated machine in OVH is way cheaper.
> The alarm limit you set was $ .50 USD. Your total estimated charges accrued for this billing period are currently $ .60 USD as of Sunday 02 June, 2013 17:09:33 UTC.
that's all it says- it doesn't say what the billing period actually is.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG Well, why would it warn you after you've gone over?
But, I have to ask - didn't you check your bank account and see that you're paying more than... "expected"?
17:19
@Xeo "Hey, it's now $0.70" "Hey, it's now $0.80" "Hey, it's now $0.90" "Hey, it's now $1.00" "Hey, it's now $1.10"...
@Xeo The warning implies that I've paid $0.60 USD, which is in fact completely not accurate.
@Xeo Why would I check my bank for the AWS charges when I think I have an e-mail from Amazon telling me their exact values? ... besides, there's a lot of transactions there.
Xeo
Xeo
> Your total estimated charges accrued for this billing period are currently $ .60 USD
I don't see that implication.
@Xeo He just did. That's how he knows he has paid 40 times as much.
@Xeo Well, since the e-mail doesn't state what the billing period actually is, it's really left up to whatever the user would intuitively expect.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG I check my bank account just to see that everything is going as it should
17:20
I have bank alerts on every outgoing transaction, including card charges.
if it said, I dunno, "The total estimated charges accrued for 1st June to 2nd June are XYZ", then it would be pretty obvious.
Not knowing what's happening with your money is pretty dumb.
@CatPlusPlus Yeah... I recently discovered some other similar transactions where I've been paying out money for things I thought I wasn't. Really sloppy.
Most of my transactions go eitehr through paypal or credit so i check those regularly
but, fortunately, since my primary bank account is now empty, anyone's attempt to bill me will fail
17:22
lol, fortunately
one of the upsides of being penniless, I guess
That... works. Somewhat.
sure, until your bank charges you £20 for a failed standing order
or your home gets repossessed
or you can't buy petrol
or food
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He doesn't have one!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He doesn't have a car!
oh well if you're homeless then that's fine
17:22
I'm not liable for mortgage or petrol right now
rent then, utilities
Swamps are pretty cheap these days.
rent is the main one
but I can use my other bank account for that
I itemise everything from my statements at the end of each month and that's always been sufficient
@CatPlusPlus Dedicated Machine in OVH?
17:25
@ThePhD OVH is a famous server host.
anyway
I guess that in the scheme of things, it's really not that bad
well it warranted a ten-minute conversation in the Lounge, so it must be fairly horrendous
my financial situation was untenable anyway and it's better to have lost $100 this way then $10000
Can't argue with that.
just a lesson that if I want to have money I should be less sloppy.
17:26
9900 of pure profit.
Why would you have lost $10,000?
Oh right
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh, I see. They host Wikileaks.
At least they're not dicks and intend to fulfill their contracts.
Easy way to get free publicity
Yeah, and they do the right thing.
ADKSAdgheaklrgherkl
17:29
I don't think I could host a server in france, though....
Need something closer to the U.S.
I should just give up and forget trying to make this thing work entirely without specialisations.
Well youd get french emails and all. gl with that
@Borgleader Not really.
@ThePhD Why?
Then again maybe hosting in the US is cheaper.
Dunno.
Not with AWS apparently :P
17:32
Uh. Dedicated Server (in terms of like a game) would probably need to not be overseas.
AWS is a whole different beast.
JBL
JBL
99
Q: Why is the C++ STL is so heavily based on templates? (and not on *interfaces*)

OB OBI mean, aside from its obligating name (the Standard Template Library)... C++ initially intended to present OOP concepts into C. That is: you could tell what a specific entity could and couldn't do (regardless of how it does it) based on its class and class hierarchy. Some compositions of abilit...

(Also AWS US instances are cheaper than EU ones.)
JBL
JBL
Kaboom Mind exploded.
@JBL "I know only one kind of polymorphism and this parametric thing scares and confuses me"
JBL
JBL
17:37
@CatPlusPlus That's pretty much his post yes...
Meh, time to go.
why does the bank of america app need permission for my camera...
@CatPlusPlus but in school they taught us that OOP is the very best and that only Java will make us happy. Different ideas make us think.
(MFW I see someone trying to make a 'classical' OOP programmer think)
@BenjaminGruenbaum "Think? Is that a method of the Brain singleton? It was deprecated some time ago, in favour of that brand new BrainFactoryFactory, you should catch up with new trends."
6
@Griwes Haha. but, you can't use BrainFactoryFactory , that's bad and loose coupling, you must use IBrainFactoryFactorySingleton it's the next hip thing - entirely written in XML, not a single line of actual code there at all!
> The removal of '@deprecated' annotations is an especially sore issue for many hardworking Java developers. "I worked hard to deprecate that code that I worked hard to create so I could deprecate some other code that I also worked hard on," said Kelly Bolton, the spokesperson for the League Of Java Programmers For Deprecating The Living Shit Out Of Everything.
JBL
JBL
17:44
@Griwes I created a monster.
If only I knew.
I remember that blog post about frameworks I've read some time ago.
Damn, Google didn't find it under "why I don't like frameworks", I had to look for "abstract hammer factory". WTF Google.
Huh.
I got some 20 rep.
But I also got downvoted on my duplicate question. =/
Goddamn strict aliasing pedants. ._.
@Griwes Oh yeah, that's a classic. "Now that I'm the proud owner of my own general-purpose tool-building factory factory factory, I'm satisfied to know that it complies with the GPTBFFF 0.97 RC2 draft specification for tool-building factory factory factories."
JBL
JBL
Makes me think I got 25 rep by digging into my browser's history to find an obscure blog post...
What the hell... ?
@BenjaminGruenbaum "They have no right to do this. Open Source does not mean the source is somehow 'open'. That's my code, not theirs. If I make something private, it means that no matter how desperately you need to call it, I should be able to prevent you from doing so, even long after I've gone to the grave." Oh god this is pure gold !
17:52
@JBL I'm assuming that link is related to infoq.com/presentations/Cplusplus-11-Bjarne-Stroustrup ?
Steve Yegge has some pure gold. I think the other best known one is "Execution in the kingdom of nouns"
@Raindrop What's wrong with not noticing the tag on the room.
JBL
JBL
@BenjaminGruenbaum Haven't seen that so...
Evening!
JBL
JBL
(But will do !)
@wilx Evenin'
coding all night long. muscles never buff. videos always buffering.
17:54
So, is there a good tutorial on how to write input and output streambufs?
Don't delve into the madness that is iostreams.
Use Boost.IO.
@wilx I wrote my own stream iterators. Once.
JBL
JBL
@CatPlusPlus Oh ? Why ?
@Griwes You're missing the point.
@JBL Oh, I figured that since he talks about it there for a bit on how people thought C++ is OOP, something like:
"I'm the only one in this room who doesn't know what C++ is, It's the elephent and the blind man.In the late 90's they're fully convinced that C++ is an OOP language and everything else is a mistake, then a few years later they're convinced C++ is a generic programming language and everything else is a mistake. I can't offer the one whole view of C++ but damnit, it's the whole elephent"
17:58
@EtiennedeMartel And didn't you miss the deleted message...? (Unless 10k+ can see deleted messages...)
(I'm paraphrasing)
@Griwes I can see deleted messages here because I'm an owner.
Then I don't really see how I missed anything.
> non-thread-safe AbstractKeywordRemovalInitiatorFactory
LOL
@Griwes The rule is: you can ask if you're one of us. That @Raindrop guy isn't new here.
How to get blind. Step 1: become a coder.
@CatPlusPlus: I know about Boost.IOStreams and I have used them to write streambufs. But I need/want to do it without Boost.
@DeadMG Where the hell did this come from?
@EtiennedeMartel He's such a valuable contributor.
Xeo
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Yeahno, if you ask annoying questions, I'll bin you anyways.
18:02
@ThePhD See the starred link on the right about Wikileaks
@CatPlusPlus Maybe not, but still.
@Xeo Better than puppy's "bin everything" approach.
@Xeo You can bin me anytime you want~
lol you thought Raindrop was a guy? Think again, cause Raindrop is... a guy
grumble grumble stuff isn't working first time grumble grumble
JBL
JBL
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well, actually, they're wrong : it's a language for keeping salaries high
Xeo
Xeo
18:04
@ThePhD I'll gladly take you up on that should you mention cowboy_cast or function_traits again.
beats $10/hour at starbucks
I just have one line of code left before my like 40 hours of effort is 'complete'
@Xeo What don't you like about cowboy_cast
JBL
JBL
@EtiennedeMartel inorite ?
one line of code. three errors. it'll probably take me like 30 minutes to figure out
18:07
@JBL LOL, a lot of my friends work at intel. They love the C++ bashing pro C stuff. Nicely written.
@Xeo What's wrong with function_traits?
JBL
JBL
@BenjaminGruenbaum It never gets old !
@EtiennedeMartel But you were right to check.
Xeo
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel When would you ever want to know the type of a function parameter?
@JBL I prefer to be read about something.
Xeo
Xeo
Also: Can you always even get the type of a function parameter?
JBL
JBL
18:10
@EtiennedeMartel Dat typo. Brain, what are you doing... ?
@Xeo Yes. :D My function traits can do it.
Xeo
Xeo
@ThePhD No.
It was even useful in Thecoshman's problem!
Well, unless it's like
a templated functor
then it gets difficult
but even then, cmon. I'm doing my best here. :c
Xeo
Xeo
or overloaded
> League of Agile Methodology Experts (LAME)
6
lol
Is that a new MOBA game?
18:14
Can I read your email please?
After all NSA didn't need your permission
lol NSA
JBL
JBL
@Raindrop This is getting boring... :/
Xeo
Xeo
@Raindrop Dude, can you just stop with those lame interjections? It's becoming annoying.
18:16
god forbid one should chat in a chat
it's more annoying that you don't respond to him politely
Tomalak, the eternal Devil's Advocate.
Maybe I'm just getting more popular. Maybe. Just maybe.
Might have been me too, my joke was pretty lame
"I have no opinion, I just like to stir shit up."
18:20
So much stars in one screen.
JBL
JBL
Quality content time.
1
A: Edit where a pointer points within a function

sehePass it by reference: void foo(node*& headptr) { // change it headptr = new node("bla"); // beware of memory leaks :) }

Xeo
Xeo
For a second I thought @not-sehe was back to his normal account. :(
no sorry :(
I wonder if he's just gonna request an account merge when he's done being not-sehe. :)
18:30
I'd personally like more opinion/upvotes on it. The accepted answer doesn't actually answer the question imo
@Xeo Sadness.
Endless sadness.
Why is he on a different account, anyway.
Xeo
Xeo
SO break
"break"
That makes so much sense.
18:33
@CatPlusPlus Ask him.
@Borgleader he broke his break
Xeo
Xeo
Modules mailing-list: dead. Concepts mailing-list: Kinda dead. Range mailing-list: Already decaying.
@Xeo Agile, where is the agile methodology! I need agile.
> it's an idiotic fad-diet of a marketing scam making the rounds as yet another technological virus implanting itself in naive programmers who've never read "No Silver Bullet", the kinds of programmers who buy extended warranties and self-help books and believe their bosses genuinely care about them as people,
> the kinds of programmers who attend conferences to make friends and who don't know how to avoid eye contact with leaflet-waving fanatics in airports and who believe writing shit on index cards will suddenly make software development easier.
Yay, got another popular question. This one is 3 years old actually.
viewed 1002 times in 3 years. um.. well done?
viewed 0.915 times per day. pretty popular
18:39
@R.MartinhoFernandes Check that out.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol :(
Entire discussions done with smiley faces.
modern communication
18:43
I still don't know what to listen to.
Xeo
Xeo
@BenjaminGruenbaum Okay, I can't figure out whether that blogpost is supposed to be sarcastic, a pure and honest joke, or serious.
@Xeo Read it, he talks about how awful Agile is like but how Google manage to make it work by dropping the stupid every day meetings and chart shit and focusing on what developers want instead, instead of working because you're on some stupid deadline - producing horrible code you work on projects you like and are passionate about.
> the kinds of programmers who attend conferences to make friends and who don't know how to avoid eye contact with leaflet-waving fanatics in airports and who believe writing shit on index cards will suddenly make software development easier.
lol
Xeo
Xeo
@BenjaminGruenbaum FWIW, I enjoyed the agile approach we employed in the second semester at the Games Academy.
@StackedCrooked He sounds bitter.
18:47
@Xeo What?
Xeo
Xeo
@BenjaminGruenbaum Which part of the sentence is that "what" directed at?
@Xeo The one where you said 'I enjoyed the agile approach'.
Xeo
Xeo
Yes, I enjoyed it.
Agile is Java. It's 'let's play pretend, let's always be busy to pretend we're productive'. Let's make a ceremony out of writing code instead of just writing it. It's exhausting, and awful. If you have inspired developers who like their workplace they'll produce awesome code.
I don't see why we should use systems that are built to cater incompetent coders like the agile methodology or Java.
JBL
JBL
@BenjaminGruenbaum I consider myself an incompetent coder. I still laughed at "systems that are built to cater incompetent coders like [...] Java"
18:52
@JBL That's the Java way, every programmer is incompetent. They're not consenting adults . Everything must be hidden for them because they're idiots and will abuse it without reading the documentation first.
Also, make a fucking ceremony out of writing every little thing.
That's not what agile is.
Coding is an art form, good code is inspiring and beautiful. I shouldn't have to deal with index-cards and progress graphs and pseudo science.
@BenjaminGruenbaum no. it's not an art.
This is what agile is: agilemanifesto.org
Art form? no
18:54
@CatPlusPlus Yesshshhhh
That people like to cling to formality is problem with people. vOv
@Abyx What we do is closer to craftmanship than engineering, at least.
I am not coordinated enough to get through Hell in the Candybox game :(
@CatPlusPlus there are good ideas in agile, but I think that overall as a process it usually fails compared to other methodologies like FDD. A lot of stuff there like YAGNI is just common sense. It feels like it's built to cater incompetent programmers. Maybe that's just my personal experience and the experience of other developers I've talked to.
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Eat more candies.
18:55
Most programmers are incompetent.
5
Xeo
Xeo
@BenjaminGruenbaum Fear Driven Development?
@Xeo Feature driven development.
@Xeo I keep forgetting to eat potions or summon imps. I've eaten 7676851 candies
@EtiennedeMartel yep, craftmanship. and it's not an art, it's closer to things like carpentry
The Witcher 2 for 6$ on GOG.
Xeo
Xeo
18:56
@MooingDuck Hm
Ugh I don't stick to any formal methodology, whether it has "agile" label slapped on it or not.
@Abyx There's still an artistic side to it.
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Don't forget Major Health potions and Invulnurability potions
@Xeo I can't steer and use the items at the same time :(
Many things in there are highly subjective and left to interpretation.
18:56
@EtiennedeMartel curly braces? yep, maybe.
@Xeo I have them. a couple hundred. Level 11 sword of fire too.
@Abyx I'm not talking about that.
JBL
JBL
@EtiennedeMartel At that price, it's like stealing from Gog and CDProjekt.
And if you seriously think that "art" only refers to visual stuff, then you are quite misled.
@MooingDuck Also eat like 500000 candies.
It's a dumb game.
18:57
Code is indeed not a form of artistic expression, but there's still some art in writing code.
I just don't like the ceremony involved in methodologies like agile, it's a waste of time and disrespectful to developers who take their jobs seriously. Like I said, I think it has some interesting ideas. I think that when I speak of agile and you speak of agile we have quite different things in mind. I invasion the progress graph and piles of index cards and meetings and agile work flow.
@CatPlusPlus I've already eaten about 14 times that. chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/10143374#10143374
Xeo
Xeo
@BenjaminGruenbaum Try talking about this without using the word "ceremony".
JBL
JBL
@EtiennedeMartel Don't know why, but I would illustrate that with the inverse square root calculation code snippet.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Ugh we use agile and there's no ceremony.

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