« first day (2099 days earlier)      last day (2850 days later) » 

Lol, Savant didn't Vex nor the orchestral album announced last year, but still managed to release a new album out of the blue.
 
so
personally I'm wondering if we should just nuke raqqa
 
Ven
rakoi?
 
Nukes are a bad idea.
Establishing precedent is bad for MAD
 
I kinda feel like people are just gonna go back to the early 20th century, mass nationalism and extremism, etc
they need to be reminded of why the United Nations exists.
 
6:12 PM
I agree. But nukes are terrible.
 
UN has gone the way of the League of Nations
 
why would a nuke be terrible in this case?
 
It undermines your legitimacy, and it legitimizes further uses.
(And it kills a shitton of people :D)
 
currently I'm kinda feeling like they're gonna die either way
 
Haha, Jonathan Wakely check every precondition in the standard library for a paper.
 
6:14 PM
It might solve the problem, but it opens a can of worms I think is better closed.
 
well
 
-32
Q: Deleting account with all content

Berdiya OnurPlease delete my account including all posts (questions and answers) that I created. When I search for the instructions to delete it, it says: User deletion is irreversible! By sending this request, your votes will be revoked, and all of your content will be made anonymous. I don't want ...

^^ popcorn
 
I guess I'd be mostly equally up for a strategic bombing with conventional bombs
 
Well, desperate times call for desperate measures right?
 
Better. Even if the direct results might be worse than nukes, nukes are just so much more than military weapons.
 
6:16 PM
yes, but that's why I'm kinda feeling like we ought to drop one.
 
That's my point in saying that. Can't treat them like they're weak.
Granted dropping bombs will kill civilians, but unfortunately civilian death is a part of war.
 
well
frankly, if IS launches terrorist attacks against civilian targets in the West, I have no problem with launching military strikes against civilian targets in IS-held Syria.
 
Dropping bombs is fine. Nukes are not just bombs.
 
and I also have no problem with being much more successful through the virtue of having better weapons.
 
Well, a nuke yeah that could cause some pretty dramatic issues.
 
6:18 PM
You have to deal with a lot of fallout, and I don't mean radioactivity.
 
Well, i don't feel you should ever target what you would have to assume would be innocent civilians. It shouldn't be a militarys' job to destroy innocent lives.
 
@Mysticial At least they're honest about their intentions?
 
well radioactive fallout would bother me
 
The fire bombings of Japan killed many more than the two nukes, but the two nukes are still the part that is questioned.
 
they're also the part that ended the war.
 
6:19 PM
Questionable.
 
The second atom bomb really sealed their fate
however, that was a slightly different situation than isis
 
(Not saying I disagree; the point is that I'm not the one setting opinions)
 
or any terrorist organization
imo any terrorist organization isn't massive enough to need a nuke dropped on them
 
"Terrorist organization"
 
ISIS isn't really a terrorist organization.
 
6:20 PM
@jonrsharpe Too late, he tried it and is suspended. — Robert Longson 5 hours ago
 
it effectively is a state now.
 
especially when you compare the power of our current bombs to the power of the bombs back then
 
hahaha /cc @Mysticial
 
ISIS is not far from being a state actor.
 
well, for the sake of simplicity i still classify them as a terrorist organization
i lump all of those people into the same category
not the innocents of course
but the extremists
 
6:21 PM
@Borgleader yeah, good stuff.
 
The "terrorist organization" narrative doesn't really help here.
Because it's about tactics, not about importance.
 
well, my point is, they aren't large enough to need a 25MT bomb dropped on them, so no nukes
 
they really kinda are.
 
They're large as fuck for a "terrorist organization".
 
terrorist organizations don't take and hold cities.
 
6:23 PM
no i dont mean to say that they're "small"
 
They're at war with 60 different belligerents.
 
but look what little boy and fat man did
and they were what, around 15KT?
 
That's also not relevant.
 
@Jeff I'm no expert on atomic yields but I figure that 1mt should be more than enough.
 
Big nukes are for show.
The cold war is over; no one makes them anymore.
 
6:24 PM
but you still have them. im not against bombings
just against using overly powerful weapons
 
well, we're going to pay a shitload of money to keep them soon enough
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes North Korea
 
@Mysticial no, not really.
 
a lot of the stuff NK doesis just for show
 
Ven
6:25 PM
github.com/vendethiel/projects/issues is github broken or is it me?
 
they're a poor country
weak economy
 
Everyone gave up on big nukes in favour of usable ones.
 
you gotta admit though
the tsar bomba was incredible
 
And never built again.
 
Bombs are the worst invention in the history of mankind imo
 
6:25 PM
You're getting way out of scope here.
 
well, to get back on topic then
what weapons do you propose be used
 
Conventional bombings can be just as effective, if not more.
(See 1945 Japan)
And ISIS has no air force.
 
Yeah, im not against that.
Question is though, given the mindset of their people
 
yeah, but they're also very expensive
 
would it really be effective?
 
6:27 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes They weren't really for show. They were to make up for mediocre delivery systems--if you can't be sure you're going to the hit the target, a big enough bomb ensures you can destroy it anyway. That's been rendered obsolete primarily by better targeting systems.
 
we have to pay for our atomic weapons program regardless
 
@JerryCoffin fair enough
@Jeff burning ISIS to ashes?
 
You gotta remember they aren't just localized to one area though
how do you go about dealing with the people that are brainwashed into believing their ideals?
 
They'll wane out.
Point is, there's nothing you can do about them while ISIS is a thing.
 
@Jeff I dunno. There's a lot of competition for the title of "worst invention of mankind."
 
6:30 PM
It's really quite unfortunate that given all of the progressions of man, you still have issues like the issues going on right now.
 
@Puppy using nukes has very steep diplomatic costs.
 
nwp
in my opinion the way to go is to improve their life enough that they say "fuck ISIS, I'm busy playing pokemon go"
 
True, but bombs seem like an unnecessary weapon, they wreak absolute destruction on their target.
 
So shoot to maim?
 
nwp
if you use nukes you better make sure nobody survives, and then I'm not sure the people you're protecting with that are worth anything
 
6:31 PM
INdeed Marinho, i mean things like h-bombs and a-bombs
are bad inventions
 
I don't think the problem is ISIS survivors.
 
granted they haven't been used since what, hiroshima and nagasaki?
but still, all it would take woudl be someone like ISIS getting their hands on one
 
Ell
@nwp I don't think the problem is just going to go away
 
I just don't want to live in a world where nuclear warfare can be legitimised.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Presumably, but I'm not sure if they wouldn't be worth paying in this case.
 
6:32 PM
@Jeff Not really. During WWII and the Korean and Viet Nam conflicts, the same targets were often bombed multiple times, specifically because they'd only been partially destroyed. Same has probably happened more recently too, but we don't get as much information about it any more.
 
@Jeff that's not a plausible scenario.
 
Ell
There are hundreds of millions of extremists and I don't think the number is decreasing
 
The problem with ISIS is that they're not "isolated". They're interspersed with civilians. So you can't just nuke them and call it a day.
 
@Ell Half the problem is extremism in our own countries.
 
You can't just get your hands in one.
 
nwp
6:33 PM
also I would call people who want to nuke countries extremists
 
"patriots" and "nationalists".
they've forgotten about the world wars their predecessors caused.
 
Ell
@Puppy of course, if the extremists aren't in our country then they're not bombing our countries :P
 
@Mysticial you can if you don't care for civilians, which I think was a premise in puppy's question.
 
Hello everyone. What's going on here?
 
@Mysticial You're assuming that I'd really have a problem with those civilian deaths.
 
6:34 PM
@Puppy ah
 
but I feel that if you're attacking civilian targets here, I have little problem with attacking civilian targets of yours.
 
nwp
@EtiennedeMartel solving the ISIS problem with nukes
 
Is there a way to turn off team attack in real life?
 
@Puppy fair enough. I think that's the only thing we disagree with.
 
@nwp You forgot to add fucking massive quotation marks around that "solving".
 
6:34 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I've proposed that we drop an atomic bomb on Raqqa.
 
I mean i'd have a problem with killing civilians, if they're innocent of course. Granted, if you want to solve the problem
civilians are going to die
 
@Puppy Well you should take that back and make an attempt to change the subject because I didn't think you, of all people, could say something that stupid.
 
really ISIS are just a symptom of the problem, which is that we as a society are forgetting the lessons of the past, since everybody who remembers them is pretty much dead now.
 
Eh, no need to call an opinion stupid
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's not something I'm firmly coming out in favour of.
 
6:36 PM
Poor opinion.
 
oh my, such bullshit and ignorance
 
It seems more like his opinion is that, if civilians have to die then so be it.
 
just thinking about.
 
I can understand what he's saying, b/c it's unavoidable if you want to solve the problem.
 
"let's bomb civilians of IS"
 
6:37 PM
Thanks for your summary.
 
in Syria
 
Seriously. A nuke. Regardless of the huge amount of side effects dropping a nuke has on the region it's dropped in, there's no euphemism big enough to hide the fact that you're gonna be killing a shitton of innocents and play right in the hands of the extremists by painting the entire West as Muslim-hating murderers.
 
@Puppy Except that in this case, many of the civilians aren't (at least voluntarily) "theirs". They're just the civilian population who were helpless to stop ISIS from setting up shop in their neighborhood.
 
Ell
@Puppy I don't think they cause really much issue. Bit then I'm not sure how it could be quantified in the first place
 
which is a sovereign state
 
6:37 PM
(Now I'm fairly sure someone else has said all of that already, so)
 
yeah, the radioactive fallout is a pretty big problem.
 
(Just needed to vent a bit)
 
Looking at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it's unfortunate how many of them had to die. But would Japan have ever given up?
 
That's been discussed plenty.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm honestly not sure how much that really matters.
 
6:39 PM
The answer is "who the fuck knows"
 
like, I gotta ask how many people are gonna die if IS finally loses the conventional war now
 
@Puppy because you're sitting in a safe place
 
If you think of this from a mathematical point. Faction A doesn't like that faction B exists. Faction B doesn't like that faction A exists. The only fixed point in this 2-dimensional space is that the quantities of either A or B is set to zero. But of course, that won't fly in today's politics.
 
Civilian deaths are unavoidable in conflicts though is my point. As long as you aren't purposefully targeting civilians, then I can atleast support bombings.
 
it's not like they're safe right now.
 
nwp
6:39 PM
@Puppy how about you just don't start/continue a war?
 
Even now there's no consensus amongst experts that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were good ideas. There is no demonstrable proof that firing nuclear weapons has ever done more good than harm.
 
@Puppy never happening. There was conventional war with taliban and US lost it
 
@nwp Tell that to the folks in Nice.
 
@nwp too late to not start a war.
 
it seems pretty clear to me that IS is at war with the West regardless.
 
6:40 PM
@Jeff That's a pretty easy position to hold when you don't personally know the civilians getting shafted.
 
Also, it's not a choice you can make unilaterally.
 
It's not easy to hold at all, I'm an empathetic person.
I just understand that it's going to happen.
 
@Jeff news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/340966.stm - they didn't intentionally target civillians
 
Oh, also, I was out of the loop for a bit, but do we have confirmation that ISIS is really behind the Nice attack?
 
@Mysticial it's not that simple. There are some 60 factions at play, and while they all dislike the same other faction, they don't really like each other.
 
nwp
6:41 PM
@Puppy then defend your country instead of bombing other people's countries
 
Ell
Bombing the terrorists in elsewhere would leave many terrorists still in Europe
 
@EtiennedeMartel it's not
 
@EtiennedeMartel There's no demonstrable proof, it's just a massive coincidence that the Japanese gave up on their ideology like, two days later. After surviving the firebombings and such.
 
it was just some random dude versus the world
 
@Puppy Back then the idea was that a land invasion would have been more costly. But even now nobody knows for sure. So... seems to me like it's a pretty big risk.
 
6:42 PM
@Puppy it's also a coincidence that they gave up two days after the Soviets invaded them. Don't go that route.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That is true.
 
Ell
What needs to happen is a cultural change
And that is the only legitimate means vOv
IMHO
 
@Ell what do you do now while people are getting killed?
 
@Mysticial If you use virtualization then both can exist separately.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have no idea :/
 
nwp
6:44 PM
Also, while I think there is a logical fallacy in this, I still gotta ask: After the great success of nuking syria are you gonna nuke iran / iraq / north korea next or are you gonna go back to a conventional war?
 
@Ell where? in Middle East?
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's true that it's not really unambiguous that they were less costly.
 
Ell
@Abyx yes, and in Europe
 
but I kinda feel like the raw military usage doesn't really cover it.
 
There's a cultural change happening in Europe already.
Back to nationalist ideals.
 
6:45 PM
they have a value that's much bigger than just the size of the explosion.
yeah.
 
@Mysticial Essentially, it's an unsolvable problem. However, that doesn't mean the situation is hopeless. Just like in programming problems that can't be solved need to be worked around.
 
what I'm currently thinking is that the actual damage dealt to IS by the bomb is more or less incidental.
 
@EtiennedeMartel To the extent that you can never be absolutely sure about anything that didn't happen, sure. Experience with land invasions of other islands during WWII (e.g., Guadalcanal) indicates that an invasion of Japan itself would have been tremendously more costly. There's essentially no reasonable question that the nuclear bombings not only save allied lives, but also saved a lot of Japanese lives as well.
 
@StackedCrooked That's only works if neither A or B are aware that the other exists. That might be the case if we assume a parallel universe situation.
 
@JerryCoffin Ultimately it was a fucking huge mess, though.
 
6:47 PM
Nah, it was quite an expedite wrapup.
Totally unlike what I'd consider a mess.
 
@Mysticial We kill their bodies and upload their brains into computers :P
 
Kill a few hundred thousand people, end the war. Boom.
 
BAM BAM ok ok we give up, you guys go fight in Korea kthxby
 
@Puppy why bomb Raqqa btw? There aren't much of IS. Most of them are in the field, all over Syria, Iraq, africa, etc
 
@Abyx Doesn't really matter all that much.
 
6:48 PM
@StackedCrooked Isn't that the same thing are reducing the quantity of either A or B to zero? :)
 
I kinda figure tha tin the long run, IS don't really matter all that much.
what matters is that we as a species are regressing to our nationalist past.
 
@Mysticial Yeah :P
 
@Puppy nope it does
 
and we need a prompt reminder of why we left them.
all over Europe, America, Russia are back to being shitstains, Muslim extremists are just the appetizer
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Correct me if I'm wrong, but Europe has been a hotbed of nationalist ideals for a while now.
(I'm fairly sure I'm at least partially wrong here, or at best overly symplifying)
 
6:49 PM
@EtiennedeMartel depends on how long a period we mean by "now"
 
there is nothing wrong with nationalism and cultural diversity
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes WW1? Maybe?
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's really been accelerating a lot since the economic recession in 2008.
 
Have to admit I don't know much about Europe.
 
@Abyx Nationalism is fucking stupid and what put us into this situation, and pretty much all of the bad situations of the last two hundred years.
 
6:50 PM
So why does ISIS hate "The West" and the US so much? Why don't they attack Asia?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Nah.
 
@EtiennedeMartel dude you think the EU would happen with WW1 ideals?
 
@Puppy and IS is not about nationalism, it's about religion
 
there was a big problem and that was what basically caused WW1 and to a slightly lesser extent WW2 as well.
but since then, that's basically what the whole EU has been about.
and by and large it worked.
 
@Mysticial because they're Asian :p
 
6:51 PM
but it's starting to fall apart
 
@Mysticial they are crusaders
 
@Abyx It's the same shit under a different label.
 
@Abyx It's actually about power. They use religion as a way to recruit soldiers in order to control huge swathes of land.
 
> This emulator project is written in c++ does not use any libraries, e.g. I could not do this: std::vector<std::string> mylist{"a", "b", "c"}; sigh
 
nationalism and patriotism are just synonyms for stupidity
which has been largely on the rise for the last few years.
 
6:52 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Probably not, come to think of it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Says everything IYAM that the EU is unhappening.
I dunno if the whole thing will unravel but various other member states are talking about holding similar referendums
 
I know, but it did happen, and not because the nationalist ideals of the early 20th century remained till now.
 
Ell
@Puppy in what way?
 
@EtiennedeMartel nope it's more than just controlling a huge chunk of land. It's ideology, kinda like communism. Their only right way to live
 
@Ell Have you been paying attention to recent events?
Russia deciding it owns Europe in the east
Brexit and the rise of nationalist parties all over Europe
Muslim extremism
you know, all of those things that have been dominating the news for the past, I dunno, decade or so.
 
6:55 PM
@Puppy nah, we own only what's ours
 
Oh ffs you mentioned Russia.
 
they seem to have forgotten that they lost the Cold War and want the glory of the Soviet Union back.
 
did I hear
 
and will annex Ukraine to get it
 
the word
 
Ven
6:56 PM
honest mistake
 
RUSSIA
 
@Puppy EU is non-democratic, it's ruled by non-directly-elected Brussels people.
 
CYKA-CYKA-KYUN
 
We got that, thanks.
 
~
 
6:56 PM
Who cares.
 
Ell
@Puppy do you think that the split of USSR pleased the nationalists against it?
 
Canada is really shaping up to be the best place in the world. Come on down, we got a super hot prime minister and maple syrup.
 
All our governments are undemocratic, especially the one in the UK.
 
Ven
@AlexM. Putin-san
 
yeah
the UK has no right to accuse anybody else of being undemocratic.
 
6:57 PM
Oh, right, Canada inherited from the Westminster system so we suck as well on that front.
 
unless you're Saddam Hussein I guess.
 
The UK is definitely the worst one in western Europe.
 
personally
 
Well, it's an old model.
 
I am hoping that it can work for us w.r.t. screwing Brexit.
 
6:58 PM
@Puppy "us" - it's only half of you
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think the counter point though is that an undemocratic government in the UK is better than an undemocratic one outside the UK
 
Yeah, that'd be ironically sweet
 
And they don't want to replace it with something better. Don't fix what's broken but you're comfortable with, right?
 
@Ell No, it's really not.
 
@Ell which isn't really a point.
 
6:58 PM
Okay, then I am gravely mistaken. All the source is .c therefore this is not C++ (question updated). — Latheesan 2 mins ago
sigh again
 
@EtiennedeMartel A great reason for the Lords to block Brexit.
then they might actually replace them
 
Ven
> deleted by Latheesan just now
:D
 
I like how in the Westminster system, one of the two chambers is non-elected.
 
@Ell because that point applies at every single administrative level, and because it's facetious to think of the EU as government of the UK
 
@EtiennedeMartel It would be great if they were non-elected in a way that was actually good for once instead of always being non-elected in a bad way.
 
7:01 PM
And the other one is elected through a broken voting system.
Here, senators are nominated based on how much good publicity it brings to the party who's in power at that time.
 
does Canada have a non-elected chamber?
 
Ell
@Puppy that ain't gonna happen
 
I know
 
Quebec killed its Senate long ago. Canada still has one.
 
Ell
The house of Commons could override the house of lords even if they veto'd Brexit
 
7:06 PM
Looks to me like nobody in government really wants Brexit anymore.
 
they didn't before, really.
 
Ell
I think they do, I think Theresa is a closeted Brexiter
 
> Quebec was the last Canadian province to abolish its upper house.
Well, how about that.
 
the problem is they can't get away with not implementing it now
unless there's an election and an anti-Brexit party loses.
 
Ell
I think they want a Brexit, why would they campaign for one if not?
 
7:12 PM
because they think it'll win them votes
I think that fundamentally, Cameron thought he would win Remain fairly easily
 
hi guys
I have a question:
 
@Ell There was quite a bit of internal strife within the Conservative Party. I'm guessing they figured that if they made a referendum and that it failed, they could then use that to crush the Leave supporters within the party by showing them that they're ideas are unwelcome.
But then the referendum passed, so here we are.
 
can someone explain to me this statement from gcc doc
please
 
The Leave camp didn't even have a plan to begin with.
 
no
@EtiennedeMartel I gotta say their cancellation of some of their pledges after the victory
 
7:13 PM
@Puppy why not ? :/
 
if I was David Cameron, I would have given them the finger and refused to invoke Article 50 or resign.
 
Ven
Thank good you're not Cameron. For a shitton of reasons.
 
@Puppy Oh, that was because they have learned from the best in feel-driven campaigning, the Americans: never give facts. Facts are useless. What you want is pure emotion. That's how you win.
 
@Ven can you please help me in this question ?
 
Ven
First off, I'd rather the loung-owners didn't fuck pigs.
@Meninx yes! this way: stackoverflow.com
 
7:14 PM
what is used for this site
 
@EtiennedeMartel Seems like it.
 
I professional developer has told me to check everytime this site
 
Ell
@Puppy that doesn't make sense
The votes were already won right
 
I posted a question but no one answered me :/
 
@Ell Only after he promised the election.
 
Ell
7:15 PM
Why would the party be split?
 
okay what is the topic I can give you my point of view
it is really precious
 
Ell
@Puppy yes but when he was elected, why didn't all of the Tories campaign for in?
 
because many of them are not stupid enough to want Brexit.
 
Brexit has + and - effects
 
fundamentally it was a calculated risk for him to appease some members of his party and try to win over UKIP voters.
 
7:16 PM
A function-like macro is only expanded if its name appears with a pair of parentheses after it. If you write just the name, it is left alone. This can be useful when you have a function and a macro of the same name, and you wish to use the function sometimes.
 
Ell
@Puppy I'm confused
 
please this question
 
Ell
You said no brexiters even want Brexit right?
 
no
 
@Ell I want to say thay that it's because a lot of Tories are closet UKIPers who want to keep the scary brown people out, but that would be overly reductive and doesn't really help the discussion.
 
7:17 PM
he said that nobody in government actually wants Brexit.
 
@Puppy Yes, that's what I said.
 
that is not the same as saying nobody in the Conservatives wants Brexit.
clearly some of them are utterly stupid and do want a Brexit.
 
Ell
@Puppy there are brexiters in government
 
The Leave campaign pretty much self-destructed after they won. Hell, they probably didn't even feel like they could win.
 
officially.
 
Ell
7:18 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I would say it was civil war between them, not unanimous self destruction
 
but it's clear they had no useful plan
didn't consider their promises
 
Ell
Michael gove really fucked up for them big time
 
and I would say didn't consider the situation
 
@Puppy It's actually official. When Leave won, the Leave campaign all threw up their arms and said "well, 10 Downing Street should come up with a plan, not us!"
 
yep.
 
7:19 PM
Cameron probably didn't feel like orchestrating the self-destruction of his country, so he threw in the towel.
And now we have an homophobic jerk at the head of the UK. Isn't politics fun?
 
he's the foreign secretary, not the head ;p
 
Ell
Why do you think Boris is homophobic?
 
I meant May.
She's the new PM, right?
 
I have not perceived her as homophobic
if memory serves she supported the gay marriage law.
 
guys
sorry
ciao
 
Ell
7:21 PM
@EtiennedeMartel yeah
She is bad for internet stuff more than homophobia
I haven't heard any MPs being racist/sexist/*ist
But I know May passed some NSA style thing semi recently
 
@Puppy Hm, reading it, seems like she did some stupid stuff 10 years ago but she's changed her mind since then.
 
@Ell I'm happy with somebody who will fuck Google.
they deserve it for all their tax-dodging shite.
we should fine them every penny.
 
Ell
Idk how google have tax dodged but meh I don't care really
 
Trust us: the feminine form of 'ghostbuster' is 'ghostbuster'.
Boosh
 
Ven
7:52 PM
:\
 
Is there a military coup happening right now in Ankara, Turkey?
 

« first day (2099 days earlier)      last day (2850 days later) »