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6:01 AM
Morning. \o/
 
user3010322
@ParkYoung-Bae I can't seem to get it to work quite that well (or with good syntax) in VS 2013. I'm sorry. :(
 
user3010322
hands back kiss, is unworthy.
 
repudiates ThePhD
 
user3010322
This is as slimmed down as I got the code.
 
user3010322
Note that on VC++ you could separate all the characters individually and use __VA_ARGS__ with the Microsoft-Specific char-izing operator @
 
user3010322
6:06 AM
But that's kinda shit anyhow.
 
user3010322
Maybe Boost.PP might have something to do it.
 
why are you doing this
 
user3010322
It was a fun thought exercise and I didn't feel like closing my eyes.
 
Without constexpr it's suicide
 
user3010322
I did it in GCC and I didn't really die.
 
user3010322
6:09 AM
It's only MSVC being dumb that doesn't really support it.
 
user3010322
Maybe I should send STL an e-mail about it.
 
MLM
@LucDanton Is there a way to declare a function<Sig> with that crib without having to write a skeleton lamda? function<int, int> f; or something (currently gives errors) - coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/9b87b4c3f2ae3b78
 
Googling inevitably reveals that my problem is caused by a known bug triggered by doing [the exact combination of things I want to do]. I can fix it, or wait a few years until I don't want that combination of things anymore, using the kitchen timer until then.
2
 
Are you new to programming in C++?
 
@MLM Nope. That’s on purpose.
 
MLM
6:16 AM
I mean I see that there is no constructor for that so it is expected. hmm
 
Well I'm just wondering tbh.
 
What would function<int> f; int i = f(); compute?
 
errno.
 
err, no!
 
MLM
@LucDanton true but could we have the function generate a skeleton that would return 0 for example (somehow defaults for types)
 
6:18 AM
@LucDanton EINVAL.
 
@MLM Go ahead and do that: function<int> f = [] { return 0; };.
 
I admit I haven't watched the movie.
 
Suppose you have function<int&>, what’s a good default for that?
 
MLM
@Rapptz With C++ yes. My extent has been crappy c++03 arduino until recently with c++11. Much more comfortable in C#, JavaScript, etc
 
ic
Real C++ is different
 
user3010322
6:20 AM
C++ for manly men.
 
MLM
@LucDanton I guess writing the skeleton myself isn't too bad, just was wondering if it could be better but you brought up very valid points.
 
I just noticed C++17 is gonna have parallelism <algorithm> in a TS.
Sounds cool.
 
@MLM What if we have function<function<int&>> etc.!
On another note, optional<T> is another helper that helps with deferred initialization. That one is not Standard in C++11 though.
 
std::parallel::for_each.
shit we're getting advanced
we have joined the 20th century
 
20th, lol
 
6:23 AM
What the hell is std::parallel
 
I guess if you don't put it in the language, nobody's gonna use it.
Or at least fewer.
 
@Pris A namespace.
 
What do feminists and JavaScript developers have in common?

Problems with equality.
3
 
6:36 AM
lol
 
Lol why does this lounge always have problem with feminists?
 
MLM
6:55 AM
Why does the struct/class Something not play well with the function<Sig> crib? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/2b4faa1ee0ca71d2 - Is this the moving the functor thing problem?
hmm, using std::move when putting as class member makes it compile. I need to look into that function to see why it is necessary: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/a8aefc008a9cca27
 
@MLM My bad, I forgot to check that codepath. There’s a typo, it should be other.functor->clone().
Similarly in the assignment op.
Oh, it is the copy assignment operator.
 
MLM
@LucDanton :) That was the problem: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/07a40498281d5e8c
 
user3010322
@Rapptz Neat.
 
@MLM That’s a typical problem when dealing with templates, you can have obviously incorrect code, but the compiler will not (cannot) complain until you actually try to use that code.
 
7:21 AM
A bad rep?
Missing colons?
Performance anxiety?
Putting their nose in someone else's business?
(Actually, I wager that feminists should have issues with inequality)
@chmod711telkitty Because we don't like starwars javascript. Ba-dum-tssj. In other news, look at who posted that
@LucDanton missing some parens
 
nah
 
@sehe "Where are your parens?"
 
@LucDanton oh well. Maybe I was missing the hidden Socratic agenda :/
> Backup tape management requires the attitudes and aptitudes of a fascist thug masquerading as a file clerk.
 
7:45 AM
@chmod711telkitty It is funny that you and @sehe i think this is anti-feminist or some such. It is intentionally ambiguous. Feminism is about problems with equality, is it not? You have just chosen to interpret it one way.
 
how do I specialize this so that even containers parameterized by values compile :-\? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/20ab9d6e5cd26bc7
 
@wilx I'm not actually saying that. All I'm (correctly) observing here is that you don't seem to care about causing some controversy by saying things that might be considered down that line. And it's equally amusing to see that some people never fail to pick up the bait (kitty!)
What did I choose now? I have chosen to joke about it.
A bit like... you. I was pondering the joke on its merit. As a joke. I'm a programmer. Sue me!
 
Fuck women.
 
 
@sehe nono, I need that exact pattern; because I want to change the value type of the container afterwards - something like C<not_C::value_type>
 
7:55 AM
And the pull request has been merged. Top notch customer service! — sehe just now
@ScarletAmaranth You can't. Which is precisely why I gave the pattern as I gave it: with a dispatch to an enable-if friendly class template.
Specialize it for your purposes (optionally expose it as a cusomization point for user-defined types if this is a library feature).
 
oh, so I need to "catch" things like std::array<T, ULL> explicitly?
 
See also examples like std::allocator<>::rebind<> and boost::vecS/boost::listS selectors as e.g. used in Boost Graph Library.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Yes. Template template arguments aren't exactly first class citizens
 
@sehe thanks
 
7:59 AM
@sehe Neither are women
 
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth Values aren't first class citizens in templates at all. They have to be type-named first. And even if template <auto X> syntax makes it into the std::, you can't have a template <type_or_value X>: it violates how the entire system works.
 
@sehe I thought it was funny exactly because of the ambiguity. And yes, you are right. I have recently fallen into habit of prodding like this. :D
 
@ThePhD Women also get violated by sexist pigs
 
@ThePhD yeahhh now I'm really annoyed actually ^^
 
@ScarletAmaranth Women also get really annoyed by sexism
 
8:02 AM
@ParkYoung-Bae You're helping :) lol
 
user3010322
The good news is,
 
user3010322
you can masquerade values as types.
 
user3010322
The bad news is, there's no template type constructors
 
user3010322
So you can't have a fix for std::array that does, e.g. std::array<T, S> were S is a type that trivially decays to a std::size_t of some sort at-compile-time.
 
user3010322
Nor can you just "make" an S from a std::size_t.
 
user3010322
8:06 AM
It has to be an integral type of some sort.
 
I wish this could be a bit simpler :-\
 
user3010322
Specialize for all the edges cases.
 
not sure how much time I'm willing to spend specializing for all the edge cases
 
user1804599
Hi!
 
Wassup pantoona!
 
user3010322
8:09 AM
What @sehe did is also good too.
 
user3010322
A struct with std::enable_if is the most flexible template you can get for that kind of pattern.
 
user3010322
Pantuna.
 
user3010322
Sounds like some kind of fishdish,.
 
user1804599
I feel good.
 
Enjoy it while it lasts
FUCK I WANT STRONG TYPEDEFS
 
8:12 AM
Man. It is awesome to have all teeth working again. I have been to a dentist yesterday. It is still so exciting that I can chew on left side. Food suddenly tastes a lot better.
 
user1804599
@ParkYoung-Bae Use Go.
 
Why not JavaScript while you're at it
 
user1804599
JavaScript has no strong typedefs.
 
@райтфолд Use Haskell?
 
user3010322
@ParkYoung-Bae Isn't there a BOOST_STRONG_TYPEDEF?
 
8:14 AM
Maybe, I didn't know. That'd be great.
 
8:28 AM
morning sweet meats
@ParkYoung-Bae in...?
 
user3010322
optparse...
 
user3010322
argparse..
 
user3010322
and getopt
 
user1804599
@thecoshman Arrrrr!
 
@MooingDuck so erm... is SO now the official bug trackers for coliru? @StackedCrooked
also... shouldn't that question be closed as it's about coliru not C++
 
user1804599
 
No, the question was about C++, just the problem was not directly related to it :D
 
user1804599
> Thanks in advanced.
 
@Griwes hmm... still seems of topic to me...
:D
 
user1804599
Go is great.
 
user1804599
Another reason Rust sucks: patterns in let bindings must be exhaustive, so let Some(x) = y; doesn't compile and you have to do let x = match y { Some(x) => x, None => panic!() };.
 
8:35 AM
lol it's at +40 now
 
@райтфолд that sort of makes sense though
 
nope, +42
 
@Griwes (and tagged properly :P )
 
user1804599
@thecoshman No, it's terrible.
 
@thecoshman lol
 
user1804599
8:37 AM
It's a pointless annoying restriction.
 
Now let the race for gold badge commence.
 
user1804599
Also lack of exceptions in general. All you can do is abort programs and threads.
 
@райтфолд Well, their documentation suggest they are targeting C programmers as their audience, and they seem to care about C mindset more than about C++ mindset.
 
@райтфолд well... they like to think that exceptions are something that will never need to happen
that you can just optional everything away
 
Yeah, except you can't, and it stops you from doing some neat tricks that, say, throw exceptions from inside test cases etc.
 
8:39 AM
@райтфолд Exhaustive patterns are great
 
user1804599
@thecoshman That's extremely annoying and suffers from the same problems as the lack of stackful coroutines.
 
I think the problem with all these languages is that they fight against "feature creep" so much they end up with a really limited language.
@thecoshman The problem with that you need either these stinky try! macros, or do notation, and all layers of your code must be aware of the fact that some error passing is happening there :/
 
The exhaustive patterns matching is part of the Rust principles though. You have to actively consider the possibilities. ie, panic because you expected the Some() to always return None, but then the function you are calling changed. You now HAVE to go handle that explicitly. Explicate is good... to a point.
 
> We live in a world where the average developer writes 3,250 lines of code per year (about 20 per day). This is going into Eclipse, pressing the “give me pattern X” and filling in the blanks, then going to a few meeting and calling it a day.
> We cannot fire all these developers. We cannot train these developers to be better. This is the Center of the Mean. This is developer who may be the butt of a Dilbert cartoon. But you know what, that’s who uses Java. And you know what else, that developer lacks some combination of the innate ability and will to get better. Not only that, but all the way up that developer’s management chain, there is not the ability or will to change the situation. We cannot move this mountain…
interesting
 
Xeo
> Do you want to know how to develop your skillset and become a ... Java Rockstar?
lol
 
8:46 AM
@FredOverflow sounds depressing really :\
 
I wasn't aware that that's how the real world looks like.
 
I finished The Imitation Game.
 
If that's true, then I really need to make an effort to avoid these kinds of software shops.
 
@FredOverflow 20 per day!?!
 
It was okay but like most "based on a true story" movies it was overexaggerated.
 
8:48 AM
@FredOverflow :'(
 
> Why Shall I use scala rather then java if they both run on the JVM?
LOL
> I don’t have the coding experience you have with Scala but I have hired over 600 engineers in the last 15 years and young people coming out top of their class don’t want java jobs.
A glimmer of hope?
 
Not if they go for JS or PHP instead
 
> one of the reporters got up in my face about being lazy because I couldn’t spell (this was 1985… before spell checkers.) I wrote a integral on the blackboard (this was before whiteboards) and asked her to solve it. She said, “That’s math… that’s hard… I’m talking about something as simple as spelling.”
I know them feels
 
I can speel plus math. I can haz rockstar status?
 
Rockstars are so 2014, Git Ambassador is the new trend
 
8:54 AM
Is Git Ambassador the new Scrum Master?
 
I'm a Git Superstar.
 
<covers his Scrum Master badge>
 
C++ Monarch
 
@thecoshman You have a badge o.O
 
@sehe I wish, that might actually be a perk of the 'role'
 
8:59 AM
@ParkYoung-Bae I wouldn't be surprised if I averaged that in some months
Not throughout the year, but it heavily depends on the project/phase
Ads by nerds
 
mildly ammusing. I had six lines, and I re-ordered them, moving the first two to the end, but the git diff likes to consider that it was actually the four lines that moved around the two. Sure it wouldn't be able to know, in fact there is no real difference, but you'd think it would see that 'least change' option and show that as the diff...
 
Xeo
@thecoshman It shows the "first" change it encounters, and that's the 4 lines before the 2 lines, which weren't there before, and the 4 lines after the two lines that are missing.
 
@Xeo oh I see... makes sense when you think about it that way.
hmm... so glm::ivec3 is not directly usable as a key in std::map... I think because it lacks copy operator (need to check) is it possible to provide a copy function for std::map to use? sort out of how you can define operator< as a free function.
That would spare me having to define my own struct...
and then have to deal with conversion stuff
 
@thecoshman indeed it doesn't logically matter. What does matter is that difs are generated consistently (so you can diff the diff, if you will). It's probably ordering options in some way, e.g. "choose the first difference as the start of a hunk"
The fact that it doesn't logically matter makes it important enough to choose the "consistent" approach to generating diffs
 
@sehe oh yeah, obviously. You don't want the same diff to show different outputs :P
 
9:13 AM
@thecoshman Well. You left crucial context out:
> When I was the editor of my college newspaper, one of the reporters got up in my face about being lazy because I couldn’t spell (this was 1985… before spell checkers.)
He was editor of a college newspaper, that makes spelling part of the core task, I'd say
 
@sehe I couldn't paste the entire thing :(
 
> Different people have different skills
And different people take on different tasks/roles
 
@sehe You mean because you also delete a lot of old code?
 
:S this coffee tastes... wrong
 
Java coffee?
 
9:15 AM
@FredOverflow no, the (supposed to be) good coffee
 
\co -> f (f e)
 
@FredOverflow I didn't even consider that too. But, seriously, how many lines... Gee. It's very much like that joke "that's 1$ for changing a single line of code, and 10k$ for knowing what line to change"
 
Whoa, Haskell<C++>? What is this interstingness? Screw work, I'm off on a googlequest now...
 
@thecoshman You specifically left out the start of a sentence, pasting a fragment
 
@DanRoss Some people thought Lounge<C++> would be too much of an invitation for C++ question droppers. The word Haskell is supposed to scare them off. Kind of like Garlic<Blood>.
 
9:17 AM
lol
"This page describes some of the black magic needed to call C++ from Haskell (on Linux, compiled with g++). I refer to it as the "The Hard Way" because it is a tedious, hand done method of generating C++ bindings." Ok, I'm going back to work in javascript land now. sry all
 
Aren't you that newcircle training guy?
Oh wait, that was Dan Rosen or something.
 
nope, just a random JS programmer waiting for the glorious day that I can use Clojure in the real world.
 
Is Clojure not already used in the real world?
 
It is, but not by the people I work with. So tragic.
 
Not in the real real world
 
9:20 AM
@FredOverflow @райтфолд
 
because JS was supposed to be a lisp. sort of.
 
Do JavaScript programs end with }}}}}}}}?
 
}); }); });
 
@DanRoss That looks like sad faces.
Which is probably quite accurate.
 
9:22 AM
Sad moustached hipster faces
2
 
@FredOverflow yeah
@Griwes hihih
 
> just as there are those that can code PHP but could not code Java
To be honest, I think that's bullocks. I think this whole "but they cannot" is all fake distinction from the motivation issue. Some people find it hard enough that they will never be motivated to learn a second language if they feel they can just do everything in language #1.
Heck, I suffer from this phenomenon myself. I know python >>> perl, but still I haven't picked it seriously enough. I know I would learn heaps doing Haskell, but it's easier for me to keep using C#, C++, Java...
 
so I now really really bought my first car
got the keys
:3
 
And no license to drive it
That's like having a hot GF and no penis to use it.
 
more like having a hot GF under 16
 
9:26 AM
Not at all
 
@FredOverflow to keep their trousers up vOv
 
@ParkYoung-Bae ...
 
@sehe Yeah, OK, you can use other stuff, I see your point.
 
I wanted to make a teensy commit and got carried away again
 
9:31 AM
Lol nice! "...but this one is ahead of you and the rest of the line"
 
@FredOverflow oh god
 
oops
just the tip, I hope
@ParkYoung-Bae I wanted to make teen vomit?
 
@sehe How about Scala? It also has the braces and semicolons like C#, C++ and Java, but over time, you can leave out the semicolons, and it will feel like you learned a new language ;)
 
lol
I think I'd prefer F# there
 
Because Visual Studio?
 
9:34 AM
o.O God no
Because CLR and interest
 
Hello! How to maintain the consistent of Doxygen documentation with source code? Maybe there are methods or tools for this task?
 
The documentation is right above the code, in the same file. How can you manage to screw the consistency up?
 
^ yeah. And for the rest build it at compile?
 
@sehe F# is ... weird. And I really, really, really tried
We sit to it with a friend for about 4-hour pair programming session
we went over the massive hills and the logs compiler threw in front of us
but at some point there were two things we couldn't do combo'd at once and that was it
 
@FredOverflow For example, if change argument's name of function or if use external documentation.
 
9:36 AM
Bartek smart enough for Haskell but not smart enough for F#?
 
wtf is "smart enough for haskell"? :S
it's an easy straightforward language
 
zing!
 
I always thought "If you can figure out Monads, you can figure out anything in programming language land."
 
no ref semantics, no mutability, easy package installation
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm sure there's something you try to say. But to me it's just verbiage. Opaque verbiage
 
9:38 AM
@sehe oh well. from a PoV of a haskell programmer, F# is worse, for some weird reasons, haskell.
 
inb4: he didn't figure out monads :)
He figured out raving about monads
 
@QueueOverflow I don't know, maybe I'm too spoiled by Eclipse refactoring the JavaDoc comments in sync.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Perhaps you should start proof reading your message.
 
F# is essentially OCaml for .NET
 
9:39 AM
OCaml's Razor
2
 
I think F# monads are a bit different
 
@FredOverflow Yes, JavaDoc is beautiful. But... there is not JavaDoc for C++)
 
Why are you using C++?
 
F# introduces predefined classes for contexts/monads at language level IIRC
 
Your mind must be very pristine and unpolluted. For those of us that learned Haskell after Java, PHP (retch cough puke) and C++, the unlearning is the hard part.
 
9:40 AM
> esay package installation
This is the part that tripped me up dearly. I've never gone back after cabal broke everything haskell in my system
@BartekBanachewicz See, that's the good thing about not noticing monads
 
@DanRoss I have been preparing for 7 months before learning haskell
 
Lots of lube?
 
Packeges, yes that is what sent me running back to NPM and node.
 
Drinking spree?
 
I reserved a week when nothing would disturb me, ate only kosher food and used scented candles
3
 
9:40 AM
@FredOverflow Apparently. Oh you're not referring to actual average lounge message consistency readings
 
@BartekBanachewicz I laughed
 
One week does not sound as long as 7 months, though.
 
But is it kosher to learn Haskell?
 
Sure. Were you expecting any side-effects?
 
@BartekBanachewicz So the lube came in handy (although I'm not sure whether scented candles are completely safe for that use)
 
9:42 AM
@FredOverflow note the "before"
 
@FredOverflow I use C++ for create a user friendly crossplatform applications (with Qt) and now maybe will use for work with UnrealEngine (he got free).
I do know about QtDoc but sometime me need to use Doxygen.
 
UnrealEngine is not free, you have to pay royalties.
UnrealEngine is only free if you do not make any money with it.
 
@FredOverflow If I have income, it would be paid)
 
Below 3k profit it's royalty-free
 
@FredOverflow that is correct
 
9:43 AM
Nice business model (;
 
@sehe There is a subset of scented candles that are designed for this matter
 
@ParkYoung-Bae 3k total? Or per year?
@QueueOverflow You work without income?
 
@FredOverflow Per quarter
 
@FredOverflow It was joke, of course.
 
you so funny
 
9:47 AM
@FredOverflow If I have income > $3,000 per product, per quarter, I will pay 5% royality. It's very comfortably and decreases risks
 
> You can download the engine and use it for everything from game development, education, architecture, and visualization to VR, film and animation. When you ship a game or application, you pay a 5% royalty on gross revenue after the first $3,000 per product, per quarter. It’s a simple arrangement in which we succeed only when you succeed.
So stop selling when you reach $3k and wait until the next quarter begins ;)
 
slowpokes.avi
 
@FredOverflow I am not greedy:D
 
I need to fix a lock in my car; the previous owner couldn't bother
 
Nor grammar
 
9:50 AM
grammer
grammy
 
@BartekBanachewicz sounds a lot like stolen goods
 
@ParkYoung-Bae ;)
 
also, in Life News With Bartek, I bought some croissants and they are the worst shit I've eaten that was baked
that's how I image sweeney todd's cakes would taste like
 
Swiney Turd Cakes
 
might be that for all i know
god the awful taste
i'll give them to my coworkers
@sehe vOv. It's not stolen, as in I've checked VIN numbers
 
9:52 AM
Good jaaaab, C++.
> Additional note: February, 2011
-.-
 
@BartekBanachewicz Beware of deadlocks on the road.
 
well the lock works mechanically
but doesn't as a part of central locking system
might be just an unplugged wire
or air connection, though I doubt Renault uses pneumatic locks
 
@FredOverflow I have counter-equestion. What for do you use Java? :)
 
I use it to clean my toilets
Although it's usually worse after using
JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE
ok
 
16 days to jam
 
9:57 AM
There's a jam?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae It is a bad joke.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae well, marmalade
@QueueOverflow and so is java
 

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