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5:01 PM
there we go, wait till I have gl context then start trying to make shit.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit id rock a 'c++ sucks' tshirt
to complement my 'engineering sucks' tshirt
 
user1804599
func Sqrt(x float64) float64 {
	z := 1.0
	for i := 0; i < 100; i++ {
		z -= (z*z - x) / (2 * x)
	}
	return z
}
 
user1804599
This method is wonderful.
 
why not allow passing an optional resolution?
 
pass a continuing resolution
 
user1804599
5:05 PM
@thecoshman How about this? play.golang.org/p/QCdStVq6Sr
 
is that giving you N values for the sqrt? each one more precise?
and why doesn't that output that in order?
 
user1804599
@thecoshman Yes.
 
user1804599
@thecoshman Because maps are unordered.
 
either way, no :P
 
user1804599
To prevent you from accidentally depending on the possibly perceived order, iterating over them starts at a random element.
 
5:12 PM
oh right right
 
found largest number it can take play.golang.org/p/Xp_iKmBI6L
removing map crap
any more and it server stops processing it
 
user1804599
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What?
 
5:20 PM
@Jefffrey what what
 
@райтфолд nice
 
@Borgleader nice
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit in the butt
 
@Borgleader what
 
Nothing
 
5:20 PM
awesome
 
"What What (In the Butt)" is a viral video created by Andrew Swant and Bobby Ciraldo for the song of the same name by Samwell. It is known for its numerous camp references to homosexuality and anal sex. The lyrics of the song, a production of Mike Stasny, mostly revolve around the title. The video was made in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and uploaded on Valentine's Day 2007 to YouTube. As of June 2014, the video had over 55 million views. == Themes and imagery == With regard to the Christian imagery in the video, Samwell said, in an interview with KROQ-FM, that the opening image is "not a cross, but a...
do you even internet?
 
wtf
what's that, internet for 3 year olds?
"haw haw butts LOL!"
 
3 year old koalas are like 12 year old humans.
I did the math.
 
there's a good reason you never heard such songs about "bums"
 
hmm?
 
5:24 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit /r/im14andthisisfunny
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's the humor of 2015
get used to it
 
Boo to people who removed their jam repos
 
Boo to people who removed their auth repo
 
> Valentine's Day 2007
 
@Jefffrey Which was empty
Yeah crime of all crimes
 
user1804599
5:25 PM
Pork is still there.
 
user1804599
Pork ftw.
 
Just as empty as the jam repos
 
So I was gonna go get cigs and some takeaway
ages ago
might as well just have home cooked food and wait until pub time for cigs now
 
I can give you the code if you want, it's useless though
Also lol Haskell
There's no OAuth implementation for Haskell
 
Nah, I'm ok
 
5:27 PM
Such a shame suppy didn't have zerglings patrolling
had to read that twice
 
There is only OGod for Haskell
 
@CatPlusPlus Looks like Julia is working on adding function types :)
 
> Such a shame Puppy has derplings patrolling
 
now that github approved my student acc crap, I need a serious name that'll stick. Recommendations for names for my language? I have "GPL" (so I can say "GPL is CC-SA") and "IHU" (boring) so far.
 
Running ["ScriptCheck", "ImageCheck", "LinkCheck"] checks on dist on *.html...

Checking 107 external links...
Ran on 19 files!

HTML-Proofer finished successfully.
There, no more broken links
 
5:28 PM
15
A: What advantages does Ceylon have over Java or Scala

Jens SchauderThe team behind Ceylon claims Scala is to difficult/complex/complicated and tried to create something that is simpler. The echo that comes back from the Scala community is that Scala isn't difficult, and that Ceylon misses a lot of the important power of Scala. It's hard to even think about thi...

@райтфолд I guess that's a typical conflict in programming language design :)
 
@Blob #im14andthisisfunny
@CatPlusPlus Use OpenID Connect and be done with it
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh um I may have misspoken, it’s more of a proposal :/ We’ll see where this goes
 
There's a library somewhere.
 
yesterday, by Jerry Coffin
@Blob I'd name it "GPL" and release it under CC-SA license (or something) so you could honestly say: "GPL is CC-SA", and see how many people try to correct your gross misunderstanding of license terms.
 
@Jefffrey lol you think a newer thing has a better implementation than one that's been around for years
Also no
 
user1804599
5:30 PM
@FredOverflow What is Ceylon?
 
That's what you hope for when a new version of something comes out.
 
@Blob seriousdeveloper :P
 
It certainly have more potential then the old one.
 
@Borgleader doesn't have a ring to it :|
 
Also OAuth1 has been deprecated by Google IIRC.
 
5:31 PM
@Blob boring developer
 
@Borgleader sounds worse
 
@Blob but it has a ring to it
(litterally)
 
@Jefffrey lol
 
v0v
 
I'm not writing web things in Haskell
Anyway
 
5:32 PM
@райтфолд Ceylon intro
 
So why is this Ceylon interesting again because I fell asleep during that intro
 
@FredOverflow How do you say "My Language" in German? I'm hoping for something like "Mein ___"
 
user1804599
meh
 
and i don't trust google translate with this :|
 
@Blob Meine Sprache
 
5:34 PM
@FredOverflow damn, doesn't look/sound like "language"
would be hard for people to tell
urgh
need a good project description
 
'Language' has a Latin/Romance root.
 
@Blob Meine Kumpf
 
2 days ago, by FredOverflow
@райтфолд Should I use Scala, Ceylon or Kotlin for my next project? I think I'm going to use Ceylon. From the introduction, the language seems really nice. Finally, no more NullPointerExceptions!
> Finally, no more NullPointerExceptions!
That's the killer feature for me.
 
You mean "actual type safety" is the killer feature?
Oh boi.
 
5:36 PM
When Java and Scala annoy you enough with their stupid nulls, then yes :)
 
user1804599
Some(null) is luckily allowed.
 
I guess intersection types make sense.
 
user1804599
Intersection types are great.
 
The color scheme they use on the website is great, I guess
But that's about it.
 
@Jefffrey I wouldn't call that a language feature ;)
 
5:39 PM
i have a local git repo. can i move it to github?
 
no
forbitten
 
:|
plis
 
it's one of the 10 commandments
 
user1804599
awk is one of the 10 commands
 
@Blob Sure, just create the repo in github, add remote and then push?
 
5:40 PM
"local git repos shall remain local"
 
forever
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow That's a copy, not a move.
 
@Blob (If you create a repo on github it will tell you what commands to use to push it there).
 
i'll just copy files over
don't wanna risk anything
 
I've freshened up newbie hints, give feedback. Also there's a list of project tools on the index page.
15
 
5:42 PM
Fantastic
10/10 would fuck again
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Mention Sparkly Bjarne.
 
well done cat
 
great..
 
> Kyrostat is not dead.
 
5:46 PM
Are you depressed cat?
You used to be so happy and full of hopes.
 
user1804599
I need to move to a more urbanised area.
 
MIT vs. GPL
 
MIT
 
it's called growing up
 
user1804599
Why are you comparing an institute to a license?
 
5:48 PM
joke-license revoked
 
user1804599
I like how the MIT website is so incredibly fast.
 
MIT joke licence or GPL joke licence?
 
@райтфолд How does he look like?
 
user1804599
5:51 PM
 
mindfuck
 
@райтфолд Does it run circles around Stanford website?
 
guys enough pictures
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow barely
 
user1804599
mit.edu is but a little faster.
 
5:52 PM
@Borgleader screw you -.-
 
@райтфолд Glorious.
 
@Jefffrey screw you
@Puppy oh no! PICTURES!
 
@FredOverflow How do you measure the speed of a website? Most websites seem equally as snappy to me.
 
@Nooble I don't know, ask pantoona. He brought it up.
 
By measuring response and rendering times?
 
5:55 PM
I just realised who Pantoona is
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit <3 <3 <3
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Nice.
 
@Nooble Google Page Speed
 
user1804599
 
@bluefog Ahh thanks.
 
5:55 PM
Its good enough
 
I see. So it seems that mit.edu is faster than 99% of all websites.
Better than Google.
My IP is faster than 61% of all websites.
 
Its not responsive
 
Anyone here has an opinion about arrows?
 
Ya.. they are sharp..
 
They're a p neat weapon
 
5:59 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum they're slower than bullets
 
@bluefog Pointier is better. Helps against pesky armour!
 
In computer science, arrows are a type class used in programming to describe computations in a pure and declarative fashion. First proposed by computer scientist John Hughes as a generalization of monads, arrows provide a referentially transparent way of expressing relationships between logical steps in a computation. Unlike monads, arrows don't limit steps to having one and only one input. As a result, they have found use in functional reactive programming, point-free programming, and parsers among other applications. == Motivation and history == While arrows were in use before being recognized...
 
slower is less important than slower to fire and more difficult to aim, heavier and more unwieldy
 
Gotta have skill nub
 
user1804599
I don't understand arrows.
 
6:02 PM
Deeply magical
 
@райтфолд The medieval English did.
@CatPlusPlus Not if you have armor.
 
Subjective.
 
Really.
> Armor is the American spelling of the noun meaning a protective covering.
 
6:06 PM
Amezing
 
Amaizeing.
 
@Nooble that's a different language
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's a dialect.
 
@Nooble sure
it's not "subjective" as to which one you're using though
nor is it subjective as to how to spell "armour" in the dialect/language I was employing
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit then why did you correct him on his usage of the word in a different (equally valid) dialect?
 
6:12 PM
People have different opinions on whether to spell it as "armor" or "armour". Hence subjective.
 
no, as you said yourself. one spelling is from a dialect, another spelling is from another. period
 
Also, funnily enough:
 
@Borgleader I didn't
;p
 
omg it's his dumb British gimmick why are you engaging in this
 
6:13 PM
9 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
armour*
 
@Borgleader that's not a correction
I mean, maybe it is in your dialect, but....
lol "gimmick"
yeah the actual language is a gimmick
the crappy split-off dialects are not gimmicks
surrrrre
 
*sure
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit im going to plonk you until your troll phase is over, ttyl
 
@Borgleader It was nice knowing you
RIP
 
@Borgleader That's never
 
6:14 PM
"phase" lol
interesting that US calls it "The Islamic State", like it's a real state. over here the media are obsessed with labelling it "so-called 'Islamic State'" so as not to give it too much credence
 
@Nooble That's just a spellchecker's opinion.
 
anyway that's just a side observation. funny article
 
@Nooble "Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."
 
@JerryCoffin ohai :)
 
@Borgleader Hello.
 
6:16 PM
@JerryCoffin :)
 
@JerryCoffin how are you on this fine weekend?
 
I hate Sundays because it means Monday is tomorrow.
 
harhar, I have Monday off
fuck you, this particular Monday, I am the winner
 
@Borgleader I apparently slept wrong last night, so my back's sore today. Other than that, doing quite well, thanks.
 
@Puppy Lucky you.
 
6:19 PM
'old' 'new', 'prev' 'curr' or 'last', 'this'
 
Hahahaha according to Netflix 2-Headed Shark Attack is a "scary movie"
 
Brilliant many thanks! I never knew you could do an image search with Google (I use Yahoo and not even sure if they have this functionality) but I will use that from now on. — user35594 53 mins ago
1982 called
 
> Will Ceylon ever have type classes? It's possible, likely even. From our point of view, a type class is a type satisfied by the metatype of a type. Indeed, we view a type class as a kind of reified type argument. Since Ceylon already supports reified types with typesafe metatypes, it's not unreasonable to consider providing the ability to introduce an additional type to the metatype of a type.
@райтфолд Ceylon sounds like a language for type theorists :)
 
user1804599
Union types are great.
 
user1804599
They can be achieved in Scala as well, using the Curry–Howard correspondence and De Morgan's laws.
 
user1804599
6:22 PM
In any type system with bottom, function types and intersection types, actually.
 
user1804599
type not[T] = T => Nothing
type or[T, U] = not[not[T] with not[U]] // just like (a || b) == !(!a && !b) :D
 
user1804599
I think the average type system is not advanced enough.
 
The average type system is advanced an average amount.
 
user1804599
We should get rid of Turing-completeness. How many infinite loops do most programs need, anyway? One at most?
 
How about if we only loop 2^64 times?
 
6:26 PM
Multiple threads with their own infinite loops?
 
user1804599
You can write those infinite loops in C++.
 
user1804599
Then call the non-Turing-complete language from that.
 
@райтфолд also known as "pumping".
 
user1804599
IIRC in Coq a function must return. It's impossible to write a function that doesn't return.
 
@райтфолд But what language that isn't Turing complete can still express the full variety of finite loops that are interesting?
 
6:28 PM
@райтфолд that's... impossible to verify :D
 
user1804599
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's not.
 
user1804599
Coq isn't Turing-complete.
 
user1804599
It's sufficiently Turing-incomplete to not suffer the halting problem.
 
Yes, and you can verify every C++ program halts or doesn't too given it's less than 100 petabytes of code.
 
user1804599
Sure, just check whether it enters the same state twice.
 
user1804599
6:29 PM
Assuming you don't do any I/O.
 
Yes. It's just really really really slow. Might be practical when we have really good VMs.
 
user1804599
What's your point here btw?
 
@sehe It would be funny if the rape victim got life sentence for this.
 
@райтфолд How to pronounce Coq?
2
 
@райтфолд I was just having discussion, waiting for someone I can ask about arrows, waiting for code to compile and waiting for reply in a room.
 
user1804599
6:30 PM
@Nooble Like "cock"
 
@Nooble Cock?
 
Just as I thought.
:P
 
I'll just say "Coke"
 
@wilx No, it would be particularly shameful.
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin The only finite loops I'm interested in are foreach loops over finite data structures, so I'd say all of them.
 
6:33 PM
We can agree that Coq has cases where it's really slow by nature of the problem it's solving - but then again so are regular expressions.
 
user1804599
Regular expressions are great.
 
Feb 19 at 4:36, by Blob
i hate regex
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's possible in a total language
It doesn't need to enumerate cases either
 
@CatPlusPlus go on.
 
6:37 PM
Total functional programming (also known as strong functional programming, to be contrasted with ordinary, or weak functional programming) is a programming paradigm that restricts the range of programs to those that are provably terminating. Termination is guaranteed by the following restrictions: A restricted form of recursion, which operates only upon ‘reduced’ forms of its arguments, such as Walther recursion, substructural recursion, or "strongly normalizing" as proven by abstract interpretation of code. Every function must be a total (as opposed to partial) function. That is, it must have...
 
Dunno if Coq is total though
Agda is
 
user1804599
Coq is.
 
I don't remember Coq having functions
 
user1804599
> This cheap trick is actually useful: the language Coq, for example, is a total functional language in that no program typechecks unless there is a proof that it terminates. (If you were to waive that requirement, it would be Turing-complete, so the only obstacle is finding a proof of termination.)
 
6:39 PM
It has lemmas and tactics
 
Sure it has
 
user1804599
Anything that takes an input and produces an output is a function.
 
right but that's not the terminology in use is it
because it's not a programming language but a proving language
 
Agda is extremely interesting
 
user1804599
Which includes things that take the empty input or produce the empty output, which includes all programs.
 
6:41 PM
Actually it's a programming language with proving capabilities
 
make me a word processor in coq lol
 
How would you write a game in a total function language?
You would always have to put an upper bound on the number of ticks it can perform.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey You write the main loop in a different language.
 
Carefully
 
you couldn't.
the same applies to any user-interfacing program- you would have to prove that the user would always attempt to close the program.
 
user1804599
6:42 PM
The updating and rendering functions can be written in such a language.
 
user1804599
But not the main loop since it's infinite.
 
user1804599
It's also the most trivial and uninteresting part, and incredibly difficult to get wrong, so trying to prove its correctness is a waste of time.
 
1
Q: C++ retro newbie: address references

Joshua CarnifexiaSo, after taking 20 years off from C++, I have gotten back into it. I for the life of me cannot wrap my head around this issue. I am working with [at work] classes were I pass address references, rather than pointer references. This little foo() example below, why cannot I not return NULL or n...

 
I can prove your game sucks without even running it
 
6:44 PM
> I pass address references, rather than pointer references.
wat
 
@райтфолд How would that work?
 
user1804599
@BenjaminGruenbaum Do you think it's inherent to Coq or that there aren't sufficiently advanced optimising compilers?
 
You would have to write the whole game in a different language, no?
 
@wilx because what? I mean, if it's justice, ok. But I'm not really up to speed with the backstory. I just thought that some of those satirical responses were really well done
 
@райтфолд it's inherent to solving satisfiability problems. It works well in practice though. I've used provers and solvers enough to trust them to usually do a reasonable job
It's very common in AI.
 
6:46 PM
@sehe I agree about the responses.
 
great... did 'something', now I'm not rendering shit any more
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey like this:
 
@thecoshman Thank god we have version control.
 
user1804599
int main() {
    auto state = initialState(); // initialState is written in total functional language
    while (true) {
        state = update(state, readInput()); // update is written in total functional language
        draw(render(state)); // render is written in total functional language
    }
    return 0;
}
 
@thecoshman you commented the rendering loop?
 
user1804599
6:47 PM
draw and readInput are written in C++.
 
Is that FFI?
 
user1804599
Absolutely.
 
Oh ok
 
@FredOverflow yeah... because I commit that often
 
user1804599
With types update :: (State, Input) -> State, render :: State -> Image, Input readInput() and void draw(Image const&).
 
6:48 PM
@thecoshman Several times a day, right?
 
user1804599
I commit several times per quarter.
 
@FredOverflow depends what I'm doing. This is a bit of refactoring that broke shit at some stage...
 
I don't commit at all. I'm afraid of responsibilities.
 
@райтфолд Regular expressions are isomorphic to finite state machines. Add memory (which is implicit in most current REs) and you have a Turing complete language (albeit, an extremely clumsy and poorly designed one).
 
user1804599
Not that kind of regular expressions.
 
user1804599
6:51 PM
I mean the good ones, which are Turing-complete and can perform I/O.
 
user1804599
Such as Perl's.
 
@райтфолд Good. Perl. Choose any one.
 
user1804599
Perl.
 
how do you diff the latest committed version of a file with your current version (in git)?
 
@FredOverflow "C++ retro newbie" read: i think i'm cool cos i'm old and grey but actually all I'm doing is showing off my abject ignorance and inability to perform the slightest bit of research
read: attention whore
 
user1804599
6:54 PM
@thecoshman $ git diff
 
@райтфолд He chose...poorly
 
oh, that shows all the differences, in the files.
 
user1804599
$ git diff filename
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin Perly.
 
that doesn't work, says I need to give branch name or some crap
 
6:56 PM
you must be in some strange detached HEAD situation or something
 
user1804599
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT???!?!
 
git diff filename on it's own should be sufficient.
 
user1804599
@Puppy I detached your HEAD.
 
user1804599
ISIS must be using Git. Detached HEAD and all.
 
@thecoshman git diff -- filenam
 
user1804599
6:58 PM
Fuck, I didn't commit my log highlighter.
 
-2
Q: Slow generation code in the Visual C++ 2010 express edition

nicedayThe compilation is fast but generation of the code can takes 5-10 minutes and the same project at the msvc++ 2008 takes 5-10 seconds.

 
bah, seems I've moved shit around too much for that diff to be of much use
 

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