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10:00 AM
@BartekBanachewicz well I was looking at what we put in the gldr 'readme' file thing, about X, how they more or less say that shit should have a valid use first. It also goes along with what so many people say, don't make an engine, make a game. An 'engine' can emerge from re-factoring and reusing.
 
@LucDanton This time getaddrinfo returns 199.27.76.133
 
@thecoshman true. But that doesn't mean you should be primitive.
Stick to the primitives you know and can apply fluently
 
same
 
Make use of library primitives like vector, unique_ptr, copy
 
odd
 
10:02 AM
and refactor in small batches
 
I get 404 too.
 
@thecoshman anyway see, my review of that file wasn't so useless after all, was it? :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz vOv yes an no.
 
@thecoshman well, can't wait to see the game anyway. What's it going to be?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not going to be deliberately awkward, I'm just going to (try to) not obsess over the best way of doing ever tiny detail
@BartekBanachewicz shit but technically a game :P
 
10:08 AM
@thecoshman that file was awkward as fuck though
 
going to make a basic game where you have to turn to face a 'thing' then move towards it. You have to get ten of them, you have three lives, and you loose a life if it takes you too long to get to one of them. Shit, but technically a game
 
@thecoshman in 3D?
 
sort of, movement will be on a 2d plane
but the box will be a 3d box
not even bothering with mouse, audio, textures etc.
 
sounds like a one-day project
 
I'll probably even just use the console to output progress in the game :P
 
10:15 AM
fuck
Windows doesn't have SO_DOMAIN?
 
abstract the drawing away and start with regular pixels or something
 
@райтфолд Should I use Scala, Ceylon or Kotlin for my next project? I think I'm going to use Ceylon. From the introduction, the language seems really nice. Finally, no more NullPointerExceptions!
 
@FredOverflow Ceylon at a glance seems quite nice
 
If the runtime isn't like an additional 10 MB, I'm sold.
 
10MB is nothing
 
10:18 AM
god it really fucking annoys me that our managers don't actually do any management. I'm constantly having to run around and do their jobs for them. give me their salaries!!
 
shared void increment() => count++;
um, but the idea of allowing mutating functions with fat arrow functions seems somewhat controversial
at least it has ADTs
void hello(String? name) {
    if (exists name) {
        //name is of type String here
        print("Hello, ``name``!");
    }
    else {
        print("Hello, world!");
    }
}
eh.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Scala has around 6 MB, IIRC.
 
@FredOverflow Too bad Ceylon stops kinda half-way
 
@BartekBanachewicz You mean with regards to immutability and stuff?
 
yet another language that is like "oh it has this and that and that and... what. sad"
@FredOverflow look at the amazing if above
 
10:21 AM
I love it.
 
you know what they praise it for?
 
have relatives over, will be sleeping in the study again ...
 
> Indeed, the code above is really just a clearer way of writing the following:
 
user1804599
 
void hello(String? name) {
    if (is String name) {
as if that was in any way relevant
 
user1804599
10:21 AM
Stack traces are finally readable again.
 
it's the if part that's the problem.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Scala.
 
@BartekBanachewicz How is it a problem? The signature explicitly says "I want either String or null". If you want only String, write String. Then you can't have null.
Or do you want ".orDefault" method instead?
Maybe Ceylon even has that, I don't know.
 
user1804599
In Scala NPEs are rare because of primary constructors and people using Option.
 
@FredOverflow it's that magic happens
 
10:23 AM
you know what's awesome?
pizza
 
// compiles fine
void hello(String? name) {
    if (exists name) {
    	print("Hello, ``name``!");
    }
}

// error
void hello(String? name) {
    print("Hello, ``name``!");
}
 
@BartekBanachewicz Magic? You mean the static type changes inside the block? I think that's fucking awesome.
Does String? not a have a toString method? :)
 
@FredOverflow type reification happening silently?
name changes from String? to String basing on the check being made
 
That's not type reification, that's flow-sensitive typing.
I wanted that in Java for 10 years.
 
Xeo
@AlexM. Doenerpizza
 
10:25 AM
@FredOverflow this can be seen as shadowing the previous name
 
@Xeo is that like doner kebab but pizza
 
Xeo
Doener meat on Pizza
 
and I am really not sure if I like that idea
well, actually, I am pretty sure I don't
 
Nobody can be sure unless they've tried it out in a real project.
 
I passed the written VR exam
 
10:26 AM
congratz
 
I knew what billboards and bump maps were
yay
 
@FredOverflow maybe I'm panicking and so on but I think it would be amazing shit source of problems
 
also, really, Maybe is a monad.
fuck if
 
@AlexM. Bill boards a plane.
 
10:27 AM
lol
 
I am so unproductive today
 
on red carpet, no less
 
@Rerito Welcome to my world.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I wonder if BG is a "fuck you I'm rich" kind of guy in his circles
 
10:28 AM
Got a french hip hop song about passing around a bigass joint
 
I can't tell from his appearances in media
 
My gravestone will probably say "Here lies FredOverflow. He couldn't decide what programming language to use next. So he spent the last 50 years of his life procrastinating in the Lounge."
@Rerito by value or by reference?
@AlexM. Have you noticed the red carpet? :)
 
mawnin
 
@FredOverflow By value! Without move semantics. Free infinite joints!
 
@FredOverflow yeah but I don't think that's really conclusive
 
10:30 AM
@FredOverflow the real issue with it I have is that it completely changes what if means
 
it may be a joke played by someone on him
and not his request
 
it's not just a code branch anymore
pushing so much on a poor little language primitive feels wrong
 
@BartekBanachewicz You gotta think practical. Have you never wanted to write code like this?
 
it's not that pattern matching on Maybe is really better, of course
 
if (x instanceof King)
{
    x.ruleTheLand();
}
 
10:31 AM
@FredOverflow never in my entire life
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow That x instanceof King already seems dubious
 
So you guys have never overriden equals in Java.
 
meh waiting to present projects
 
@FredOverflow I've written like 1000 lines of Java in my entire life
 
so annoying when people just randomly gather to make jokes and laugh
extra annoying if they're girls
 
10:32 AM
it's boring and uninteresting
 
because it sounds like rats making noises
 
@BartekBanachewicz 1000 lines of Java? Is that even enough for a trivial Hello World?
 
lol
the "is instance of" part is meh, I agree with @Xeo anyway
 
Sure, in general it is, but sometimes it's useful. That's why Bjarne added dynamic_cast to C++.
 
@ThePhD It technically doesn't type them. It retrieves them from KeePass through a local HTTPS connection and puts them directly in the browser's textboxes.
 
10:33 AM
@FredOverflow I don't really use it that much. Very, very very scarce.
 
The sad part is, you have to use it in Java if you override equals.
 
f :: King x => x -> IO ()
f x = ruleTheLand x
 
is there a header only boost variant alternative without boost dependencies?
 
@AlexM. Sexism seal incoming
 
But Java equality is broken beyond repair anyway, so what are you gonna do :)
 
10:34 AM
@FredOverflow let's see, not use java?
 
So... f = ruleTheLand? :)
 
@ThePhD On Android I use KeePass2Android, which comes with its own keyboard that has pretty much only two keys: "Username", "Password". I load the entry in the app, then go to the thing where I want to put the password and switch to the the KP2A keyboard.
 
@FredOverflow of course, it's just an example
 
What is that called again? Beta reduction? Eta reduction? Something like that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz huh?
 
10:36 AM
@Rerito stop being stupid
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I use the clipboard on Android because I'm lazy.
 
@BartekBanachewicz There's a french expression "faire la java", which means to party
 
if only it was something funny
 
@thecoshman you seem to be focusing on the graphics part a lot vOv
 
but those retarded chicks spent all of the time on some random website laughing at shit like
 
10:37 AM
@FredOverflow eta-reduction
 
HAHAHA DOT NOT GET IT? SO FUNNY
 
beta reduction is reduction of lambdas
 
Ah, so at least both exist :)
 
((λn.n×2) 7) → 7×2
 
@Rapptz Ugh. The clipboard on Android doesn't clear; it retains old entries.
 
10:38 AM
or, IOW, application :P
 
Is beta reduction an optimization or an evaluation strategy?
 
range-v3 has a variant type in it ^^
 
@AlexM. Plug them on 9gag, it's gonna be a fucking nightmare then
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It clears for me.
You sure?
 
@Rapptz It adds a new empty entry, you mean.
 
10:38 AM
@FredOverflow I suppose it's just evaluation.
 
It retains the old ones.
 
> Beta-reduction captures the idea of function application. Beta-reduction is defined in terms of substitution:
 
I don't see it on the clip tray of my phone
 
 
@Pris I could do that I suppose
 
10:39 AM
so many threads. I wonder how their loop looks like
 
Anyway, gotta watch some OOFP tutorials and plane crash investigations. cu later
 
@Pris if you use reasonable sync primitives it can be pretty normal
TQueue everything
 
Then again maybe my clip tray is outdated old so it deleted older entries.
 
Those are the times when I'm really glad I write in Haskell
Multithreading is so natural and easy
 
@BartekBanachewicz I have the same setup (app thread, update thread, render thread) but I'm having trouble understanding the control flow / sequence of events.
 
10:40 AM
most of the time you already have infrastucture for multithreading in place
 
@Rerito I'm secretly hoping they'll trip on my laptop's charger and end up in hospital
 
Currently I go into a spiral of death and I'm trying to fix it. I think I understand basic game loops, but not multithreaded ones.
 
@Pris input thread should just push events to the update thread, resource thread should fullfil resource promises
render thread should just be a sink
so the arrows, lemme
 
ill bb in a bit, gotta try turning my car on since its like -30 here
 
-30C or F?
 
10:42 AM
imho makes sense
 
-30C
 
they didn't trip
shit
I don't get it, there's 30 people in the room
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't have an issue with the resource threads. All my threads have an event loop and are just throwing events at each other mostly. But I'm stuck on how to do timing between frames.
 
and just you and your couple of friends are loud
don't you, like, get the idea that you're odd
and disruptive
 
@AlexM. Yeah fucking hate that
 
10:47 AM
@Pris I don't think it really matters who keeps the clocks
I'd probably keep them in the update thread
 
@Pris Eww.. -30C. You need a sump heater.
@BartekBanachewicz Would not the render thread provide the clock? It does the drawing, so the other systems should keep it topped up?
 
@ChaniLastnamé: No, you have UB. numProcessesRequired is 0 until your user input, so you are overrunning your array again. Please listen to me and use the solution I have provided; each part of it serves a vital purpose. (It's kind of funny that you think "it worked. No issues" is a sign that it's actually correct and will always be okay, when you came here in the first place with a program that had "worked" with "no issues" for you on one system but then broke on another!!) — Lightness Races in Orbit 1 min ago
 
@MartinJames It should draw when there's a new something to draw
no point in refreshing the screen if there's no new content
just don't swap the buffers, keep the screen displaying the same content
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh right, well I guess you're right. I guess that's because I understand that better. Once I've got a basic starting point though, I can start to look at improving other aspects. Such as audio, game mechanics, 'physics'. But to be fair, this game is so basic that their really isn't much game logic in it.
 
when a new content arrives, it should draw it and flip the buffers on the nearest vsync
that actually sounds like a decent idea. I think I'll implement it
 
10:53 AM
@BartekBanachewicz where;s that from?
 
minutes on bottom
 
@thecoshman I modified the diagram that Pris posted a while ago
 
@BartekBanachewicz ah, and what do you mean by 'promises'?
 
10:54 AM
@thecoshman do you know what a promise is, in general (computing)?
 
in terms of threading, not really... I probably know the concept but just not by that name
 
@thecoshman how about "an asynchronous computation"?
or asynchronous value?
 
oh like futures?
 
user1804599
AWK is a great programming language.
 
> Scheme and Forth - other small languages that are beloved by their fans for it - probably have more compilers than actual users.
 
10:56 AM
the update just asks a resource to start loading, then goes back to it's own work until it really can't do any more without that resource.
 
lol
 
@thecoshman precisely
 
user1804599
eww futures
 
I'm impressed this is allowed on Programmers.
 
user1804599
CSP fool
 
user1804599
10:56 AM
everything blocking
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh right, so yeah, makes sense
 
user1804599
fuck async APIs
 
27
Q: Why are there so few C compilers?

LeushenkoC is one of the most widely-used languages in the world. It accounts for a huge proportion of existing code and continues to be used for a vast amount of new code. It's beloved by its users, it's so widely ported that being able to run C is to many the informal definition of a platform, and is pr...

 
@райтфолд why block if you don't need to?
 
user1804599
Because it's much easier to use blocking APIs????
 
10:57 AM
what if you just want to compress a save state in the background, but want the rest of the game to work away as normal?
@райтфолд and?
 
@thecoshman don't feed the troll
 
user1804599
Then you do it in a different thread.
 
user1804599
spawn(function() {
    saveShit();
});
 
is there anything in C/C++03 that I can use to enum POD types ?
 
@райтфолд o_0 yes...
 
10:58 AM
@NeelBasu "enum pod types"?
 
user1804599
@NeelBasu no
 
user1804599
you can use boost fusion if you want
 
user1804599
with adapt_struct
 
@NeelBasu what the devil are you trying to do? It sound plain wrong.
 
@thecoshman that's a meh example because the returned value is Unit.
the point in promises/futures is when you return something meaningful
 
10:59 AM
@BartekBanachewicz well... yes...
 
actually I am going to transmit a tuple which may be (int, int, float), (float, double, int) like that. and instead of using boost serialize I want to send a an header stating ` (int, int, float)` before transmitting the data
 
user1804599
asynchronity should be the job of the API consumer, not of the API itself
 

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