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2:01 PM
Did any of you actually read or watched 50 shades of grey?
 
My fur has 50 shades of grey.
 
50 shaders of grey
 
lol no
Why would you ever
 
Why wouldn't you ever
 
Because it's a waste of time
 
2:06 PM
How can you know that?
 
hmm
just found this in some code I haven't used in a long time
        // Why the hell is this here?
        if (!contents.EndsWith("\n"))
            contents += "\n";
 
What language is that?
 
C#
 
The premise is stupid, the author is bad, you can practically smell atrocious writing a mile away
 
2:09 PM
Also murkdown caved when I tried to make a simple table
 
I've pissed off some java people
 
It's like LaTeX all over again
Except without any redeeming features
 
I didn't know murkdown even supported tables
 
It does
They are awesome
 
They look like this github.com/adam-p/markdown-here/wiki/Markdown-Cheatsheet#tables and good luck trying to fit more than 20 characters inside the cell
Or gasp a paragraph
 
2:11 PM
Name     | Awesomeness
---------|-----------
Murkdown | 10/10
LaTeX    | 5/10
 
You can use HTML directly, but then murkdown won't parse any of its shitty constructs inside the tags, so you might as well not use it at all
 
> Log out view: "view django.contrib.auth.logout didn't return an HttpResponse object. It returned None instead."
Yet another problem that could have been solved with decent static typing
 
That's not a view
 
It's a decorator that is applied over views.
 
No, it's not
 
2:16 PM
Maybe not
 
It's just a function
 
@Jefffrey Nah, they would have just made it return Optional<HttpResponse>
 
That would make no sense
View can't not produce a response
 
@Puppy To do that, they'd need static typing.
 
2:17 PM
If None was a valid response from a view, there wouldn't be a check
 
It seems to be the framework itself.
 
Note how it's helpfully in 'views' module
That guy has a broken URLconf
 
Hey, @CatPlusPlus are you working on Lounge<Chat> by any chance?
 
What for?
 
Having Lounge<Chat>?
 
2:22 PM
What a compelling reason
 
Wait, you removed the auth repository?
 
I think I found LRIO next avatar:
 
Platform is dead
 
What platform
 
loungecppdotnet
I moved the main site to GH Pages
Servers are cancelled and the rest is dead
 
2:26 PM
Oh god, what happened
Is this the end?
 
Zero interest happened
 
People need to believe in project they'll never finish
You just removed that hope for them.
 
huh
I'm referencing one project from two solutions, and ... the project settings are different.
 
2:40 PM
@Mgetz :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit maybe just your frustrated avatar
 
same glasses too
 
@Jefffrey No. Should we?
 
@FredOverflow clearly not
 
@Puppy love the comment
 
2:42 PM
clearly this is not my first time being confused at the need for that particular snippet.
 
@FredOverflow Dunno. I didn't.
 
You should watch the homo version: 50 shades of gay
 
@Mysticial It took me a long time to design this plot for my paper on my sorting algorithm, thoughts on the design? (data is bogus random values right now) i.imgur.com/2MtG7zE.png
 
@FredOverflow Are you discriminating heterosexuals?
 
2:45 PM
Depends on what you mean by "discriminate".
If it means they exist, then yes. Otherwise no.
 
user1804599
dickrimination
 
@orlp what do the black bars represent? median?
oh wait
nvm
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
@Blob yes, it's a regular boxplot
 
i somehow completely ignored the lines coming out of the boxes
 
2:46 PM
bar = median, box = 25-75% percentile, whiskers = 10-90% percentile
 
@райтфолд Exactly how many projects are you working on at the moment?
 
user1804599
Can a regular boxplot only visualise regular statistics? How about Perl-compatible regular boxplots?
 
@orlp Nice
I like it
Takes a moment to parse, but that's unavoidable with this much data
 
There's a lot of data in there, but that's needed to compare
worst case, best case, average case for multiple distributions under multiple algorithms
 
user1804599
2:47 PM
Fun-fact: you can parse C++ code with a Perl regex.
 
user1804599
They are Turing-complete and can do I/O.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow One.
 
Then they are not regexes.
 
user1804599
Regex languages that are not Turing-complete are shit.
 
2:49 PM
Preglex
 
@райтфолд No, thsoe are called regular expressions
 
hint: look up what "regular" in regular expressions means
 
user1804599
Yes. They are shit.
 
user1804599
I want arbitrary recursion in my regexen.
 
user1804599
2:50 PM
And cool stuff like calculations and storing state.
 
what you're asking for is literally a contradiction
 
I want constants that I can modify.
 
the interesting part about regular languages is that they're not turing complete
what you're saying is akin to "White colours that are white are shit. I want black in my white."
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow You want Ruby.
 
Or C.
 
user1804599
2:51 PM
irb(main):001:0> C = 1
=> 1
irb(main):002:0> C = 2
(irb):2: warning: already initialized constant C
(irb):1: warning: previous definition of C was here
=> 2
irb(main):003:0> C
=> 2
 
Only in irb.
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit So bad its good.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey no
 
user1804599
» cat x.rb
C = 1
puts C
C = 2
puts C
» ruby x.rb
1
x.rb:3: warning: already initialized constant C
x.rb:1: warning: previous definition of C was here
2
 
2:53 PM
-Werr
 
And, finally, in honour of @Puppy:
 
λ let c = 1
λ let c = 2
look, I can modify constants in Haskell
 
user1804599
No, that's shadowing.
 
huh I just realised I had a dream in which I tried to write (lambda) in a text editor and it kept getting changed to λ and I didn't want it to be and I got really annoyed.
That's what you people have done to me
 
user1804599
You're creating a new constant that happens to have the same name.
 
2:56 PM
The interpretation is that we are your text editor and we keep trying to move you to the functional paradigm, but you won't because you are too stubborn.
So you stupidly keeping typing lambda hoping for something better, but that won't happen.
 
user1804599
I love imperative programming.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey sub master race.
 
Here, my happiness just ended, in this very moment.
It was a beautiful week.
 
user784668
@LightnessRacesinOrbit M-x prettify-symbols-mode
 
So correct me if I'm wrong but galaxies are just the accretion disks of black holes, right?
@Jefffrey weak*
 
3:05 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Are you saying that every galaxy has a black hole in the middle?
> A supermassive black hole (SMBH) is the largest type of black hole, on the order of hundreds of thousands to billions of solar masses (M☉), and is found in the center of almost all massive galaxies.
 
^
"almost all" hm
 
"almost all" probably means something like 98%
In mathematics, "almost all" means "all but n", where n must be some finite number.
 
0 is a finite number
 
In mathematics, the phrase "almost all" has a number of specialised uses which extend its intuitive meaning. == Cardinality == "Almost all" is sometimes used synonymously with "all but [except] finitely many" (formally, a cofinite set) or "all but a countable set" (formally, a cocountable set); see almost. A simple example is that almost all prime numbers are odd, which is based on the fact that all but one prime number are odd. (The exception is the number 2, which is prime but not odd.) == Measure theory == When speaking about the reals, sometimes it means "all reals but a set of Lebe...
 
@FredOverflow Thanks for that
 
3:15 PM
We are not what you think we are. We are golden, we are golden.
 
I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that scientists have determined that there are precisely n galaxies in the universe without a SMBH at their centre. But nice try
 
n does not have to be known. It's sufficient for you to prove that n is finite.
For example, almost all ints are equals to 0, because only 4294967295 of them aren't.
 
user784668
@FredOverflow Wrong, only static_cast<unsigned>(INT_MAX) - INT_MIN aren't.
 
My last 2 posts aren't related, by the way :)
 
@FredOverflow Well it's not going to be infinite is it
Oh my:
So are you saying hydrogen and helium were results of the Big Bang? I was told that the two atoms themselves colliding caused the Big Bang. If that was true however, wouldn't that mean that there was something before something as opposed to nothing before something? — David Johnson 27 mins ago
 
3:20 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Depends on whether you believe in an infinity of multiverses.
But yeah, I don't believe in infinities in the real world.
 
@FredOverflow Not really, since we're discussing a fact within the scope of just one Universe
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit How can atoms (or anything else) cause the Big Bang? lol
 
@FredOverflow inorite
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't know enough about black holes to give a competent answer. Do the contents of a black hole belong to the same universe?
 
user784668
3:22 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Soup.
 
> the contents of a black hole
 
@ThePhD actually these are some of the better puns selected
 
user784668
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Two your mommas.
 
Room's info page loads awfully slow these days
 
Confirmed
 
3:24 PM
@CatPlusPlus If it get progressively slower over time with more content involved, it's probably Schlemiel's fault.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey the mass of your mom in kilograms isn't.
 
@FredOverflow I don't think that's the case.
 
A what
 
Aug 6 '14 at 18:19, by Alex M.
> In software development, a Schlemiel the painter's algorithm (sometimes, Schlemiel the painter algorithm) is a reference to a method that is inefficient because the programmer has overlooked some fundamental issues at the very lowest levels of software design.
 
user1804599
And it's still efficient enough.
 
3:26 PM
I'm refreshing newbie hints
Do we even have the owner policy still
 
user1804599
It's my favourite style of programming.
 
@CatPlusPlus Links are broken on wiki
 
That's to be expected, since wiki no longer exists and all
 
3:31 PM
I got it thanks
 
@CatPlusPlus Is this the end of the civilized world? Should we head back to the caves?
 
@FredOverflow Yeah let's go join Vlad in cybernetic oblivion
ooh he was here 25 minutes ago. red alert
still no posts though. c'mon, daddy needs a pint of Doom Bar
 
user1804599
Is it difficult to move to Austria?
 
@райтфолд No.
 
3:33 PM
@райтфолд Austria or Australia?
 
user1804599
I said "Austria," so Austria, not Australia.
 
1 min ago, by райтфолд
Is it difficult to move to Austria?
 
Just checking.
 
15 hours ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
The quality of English in this Lounge has deteriorated dramatically over the past few weaks.
 
user1804599
std::string x("Austria");
assert(x == "Austria");
 
3:34 PM
Who are the Lounge's weaks?
 
user784668
@райтфолд You'd have to get used to everything being upside down.
 
@райтфолд What do you want in Austria?
 
user1804599
I want to learn German and live in Austria.
 
Because...?
 
user784668
@FredOverflow He wants to be literally Hitler
 
user1804599
3:35 PM
Because it seems like a nice place.
 
@FredOverflow kitty's not around too much lately
@райтфолд Solid reasoning.
 
@Fanael There is no way to literally be another person.
@райтфолд Are you judging that based on past holiday experiences or jpgs from the Internet?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit he was? I'm not seeing him in the user's list, I am seeing Shog9 though
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow No. I know nothing about Austria.
 
Well, the name sounds nice. Maybe they serve Ostrich in Austria?
 
user1804599
3:47 PM
I don't like curly braces.
 
user1804599
Keywords are nicer.
 
How about Algol then?
 
user1804599
sub … … end > sub … { … }.
 
user784668
I don't like keywords.
 
user1804599
Like Ada, Fortran, Pascal and Ruby.
 
user784668
3:48 PM
Special forms are nicer.
 
user1804599
That'd require a context-sensitive grammar.
 
user784668
(lambda …) > sub … … end.
 
user1804599
sub … end (* ok *)
let sub = 42
sub … end (* syntax error *)
 
faaaaail
 
user1804599
In Elixir if is an identifier. :)
 
user1804599
3:49 PM
if … do … else … end is just a macro call with named arguments.
 
user1804599
You can even say if(x < y, do: x, else: y).
 
user784668
@райтфолд (let ((lambda 42)) (lambda () "ok"))
 
user784668
Perfectly legal.
 
Who needs braces or sub keywords? I prefer line numbers and gotos.
 
user1804599
Yes I know how lisps work.
 
user784668
3:51 PM
Evals to a function.
 
user1804599
Wait lol what?
 
user1804599
What horrible language is that?
 
user1804599
In Clojure (let [fn 42] (fn [] "ok")) results in an error because 42 isn't callable.
 
user1804599
Unlike (fn [] "ok") which results in a function because fn is a special form.
 
user784668
@райтфолд Common Lisp. Or Emacs Lisp, this code's the same in both.
 
user784668
3:53 PM
@райтфолд That's because Clojure is a Lisp-1, while CL is a Lisp-2.
 
user1804599
I don't see why special forms have to be treated specially with respect to scoping and name lookup.
 
user784668
@райтфолд They're not.
 
user1804599
Is it not lexically scoped?
 
user784668
(let ((cons 42)) (cons 1 2)) evals to (1 . 2).
 
user1804599
lol fail
 
3:54 PM
@FredOverflow then you'll feel at home in my language
it was originally all it supported. it now also has support for if's and while's but you can use what you prefer c:
 
user1804599
> The namespace for function names is separate from the namespace for data variables.
 
user1804599
Why so complicated? How can you pass functions around?
 
user784668
@райтфолд Easy: (mapcar #'foo list).
 
user1804599
horrible
 
user784668
'foo probably works too.
 
user1804599
3:55 PM
functional programming retarded edition
 
what's a good program on linux for looking at git merge files?
 
user1804599
What is a merge file?
 
user784668
@thecoshman agetty
 
user1804599
Do you mean a diff?
 
@райтфолд when you do a 'merge' and it has conflicts, so gives you a file that somehow shows what changes came from where
@райтфолд yeah
 
user1804599
3:58 PM
I don't know. IntelliJ has a neat tool for resolving conflicts.
 
user1804599
But I doubt you can use it standalone.
 
user784668
@райтфолд Common Lisp was never meant to be a functional language.
 
user1804599
It sucks at scoping regardless.
 
@Fanael If Lisp is not a functional language, what is?
 
user1804599
Haskell.
 
user784668
4:04 PM
@FredOverflow Some Lisps are functional, for example Clojure and Scheme.
 
user1804599
WRONG FUNCITONAL REQUIRES PURE AND LAZY
 
ooh, XD already had meld setup
 
user784668
@райтфолд Haskell has IO, therefore not pure.
 
user784668
We need a real pure functional language!
 
user1804599
Haskell is pure; main always returns the same I/O action.
 
4:06 PM
@Fanael IO is pure. main is the culprit!
 
@Mgetz Not here; on SO proper
 
user1804599
@Fanael Coq is pure and not Turing-complete!
 
> Forgive me father, for I have performed unsafe IO.
 
user1804599
Should I make Mill a lisp?
 
user784668
Only if you want to.
 
4:08 PM
What is Mill?
 
user784668
Lang rightfold is making I think.
 
My contribution to language design is that I suggest that any language that allows user-defined operators should do so with a syntax that gives a name to the operaror, e.g. operator plus: +. Then doctools, wikis, search engines, discussions and talks can properly refer to/find/mention the operator.
 
^ I'm Lightness, and I approve this message.
 
user784668
operator _: <*>
 
(,,) <$> a _ b _ c?
 
user784668
4:16 PM
_ is the "readable" name
 
Well you can give a readable name to anything :Þ
 
not quite as good looking with real data
 
@orlp lol
 
6
Q: What would happen to a human if he steps inside a zone that strips electrons?

CygnusPREMISE The zone will make all electrons disappear. QUESTIONS If a person walks in that zone with his whole body, would he die from heart failure? What happens if he just sticks his hand in? Hand become numb? What happens if he sticks his head in? Brain dead? Addendum What would happen...

oh dear
 
why doesnt opengl give me a way to query for vsync or if swapbuffers will block... man, sometimes it feels like everything in software is an uphill battle
so sick of this shit
 
4:19 PM
a bit like trying to write comments on SO
 
user784668
@Pris because drivers are doing batching and async ops?
 
presumably you only get vsync if you asked for it.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ikr, when i do theres always a twat telling me not to answer in comments
 
@LucDanton I've not really seen user-defined-ops to be anything but horrendous
 
@Borgleader :D
 
4:21 PM
@Puppy Yeah but whether or not swapbuffers will block regardless of if vsync is enabled is apparently implementation dependent. I think it has to do if the frame buffer queue in the driver itself is full.
 
why do you need to know so badly if swapbuffers will block?
 
Because while swapbuffers is blocked, I can't do anything else like respond to events. Say I render at 30hz, but I want to update based on input at 60hz... can't see a way to do it unless I make the render stuff live in a different thread. Which would be fine, but then windows has some shit with OpenGL rendering in a thread outside of the main thread
 
from memory, that only occurs if you render directly into the window
you could render to a texture and then render only that on the main thread?
ah well I actually don't see how that would solve anything.
 
I intend to use ANGLE and my understanding is it forces you to use the main thread for render operations.
I'll just cross that bridge when I get to it. Stupid Microsoft... stupid OpenGL. Stupid everything
 
just use D3D directly?
they have native support for rendering on another thread.
even as far back as D3D9
and also, ANGLE is FOSS it says here, so you could fork it to use that.
 
4:28 PM
Honestly compared to rewriting all my GL stuff I'd rather just drop windows support. But if libs like Qt can get away with using ANGLE there's probably some way to do it
 
egl::Error createWindowSurface(const egl::Config *configuration, eGLNativeWindowType window, const egl::AttributeMap &attribs,
SurfaceImpl **outSurface) override;
ewwwww.
@Pris That's an appeal to authority fallacy (although it seems to be more yourself that you're appealing to rather than me). Qt probably just doesn't give a shit about not receiving events whilst swapping buffers.
 
prolly :[
I always get hung up on stuff like this. It'd be so easy for me to say 'screw it' and just ignore this altogether... but I'm incredibly good at wasting time on little issues. Or maybe I don't think its a little issue... idunno.
 
Don't do GL or DX directly if you don't want to deal with GL/DX issues
 
user3010322
q_q
 
I'm trying to compile some c++1z code using clang 3.7 but I'm getting an error saying "error: no member named 'gets' in the global namespace" when I #include <iostream>. Afaik gets will be removed in c++1z but what should I do do have c++1z's <iostream>?
 
user3010322
4:37 PM
I don't want to finish making my switch to OpenGL.
 
user3010322
It's too hard.
 
Jesus murkdown lists
 
@CatPlusPlus Well I wanna create something and GL is a part of that... no getting around that. Plus GL is fun at times too
 
You're dabbling in low-level stuff, don't be surprised there are low-level issues
 
@CălinCruceru Nice one. It's as if something tried to use gets.
 
4:41 PM
@milleniumbug no, I'm not using it. If I try to compile int main() { static_assert(1); } it compiles, if I try to compile #include <iostream> and then the previous code, it gives that error
 
shared void main() {
    print("Hello, Ceylon!");
}
shared void sounds kinda dirty, but now that I think about it, so does public void.
 
what language is that?
and what does shared mean?
 
@CălinCruceru You're probably using standard library that hasn't been made compatible yet
 
@Blob Ceylon
 
@CălinCruceru Make sure whatever Standard Lib implementation you are using is supported by Clang.
 
4:42 PM
@Blob visible to other modules or something
 
@CălinCruceru Didn't say you used it. C++1z support is still experimental (the standard hasn't even come out yet).
 
C++1z == C++17?
 
@CatPlusPlus @LucDanton that is most probably the problem, but where do I get the c++1z std lib implementation?
 
yes
 
@FredOverflow yes
 
4:43 PM
You're shit out of luck, bug the maintainers, etc
 
@CălinCruceru What's the most exciting feature? Concepts?
 
Haven’t used Clang in a while, no clue there.
 
> C++14 is a small extension to C++11. It was approved in August 2014, and is currently waiting official publication pending editorial changes.
 
@FredOverflow void_t imo. Google it
 
update please
 
4:44 PM
ok, so there's a chance that clang already supports some features which are not available in the standard library
 
? make sure you make the distinction between the language and the library
 
user1804599
hi
 
user1804599
@Blob C++14 is already accepted.
 
@CălinCruceru Sure. GCC supported a ton of C++11 years before 2011.
Compilers come out with experimental features all the time.
 
user1804599
And clang implements all of it already.
 
4:46 PM
If nothing else, they wouldn't be able to get it all done in one fell swoop.
 
user1804599
libc++ also implements all of it already.
 
@райтфолд accepted != published
 
hmm, I think I got it
static_assert without a message works because it is a language feature, right?
in c++1z
 
Righto
 
4:49 PM
That's a vacuous question
Everything in the language is a language feature
 
user1804599
Fuck concepts and fuck modules and fuck the file system. All I want is static_assert without messages.
 
lol "fuck the file system"
I want that on a t-shirt
 
@райтфолд just make a macro that passes static_assert some empty text
 
user1804599
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
user1804599
#define assert(c) BOOST_PP_CAT(x, __COUNTER__); static_assert(c, "")
static assert(false);
 
4:52 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I meant it doesn't have a C++ implementation. It is supported directly by the compiler.
 
@CălinCruceru wot
 
@orlp Fairly terrible actually
 
¬_¬ nothing as fun a seg fault before your program even does anything
 
Oh, you're making a distinction between library and language
cute
anyway yes it is an operator rather than a function or class
actually it might be a statement not an operator
lol it's a declaration
'twas the best way to get it to work inside of a class definition I guess
So now we "declare that things shall exist" and "declare Expr that shall be truthy" where Expr is a constant-expression
fair enough
 
ooh yeah, you can't do shit until you have a context
this makes things interesting :P
 
4:57 PM
in what context?
 
opengl context?
 
yeah
 

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