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12:00 AM
@ScottW :,)
 
@Puppy Looks like they ganged up on you from the teacher's lounge.
lol
 
@AlexM. I so need that
 
Steam overlay just attached itself to Visual Studio :cripes:
 
user406009
@Mysticial That's because Puppy was being an ass.
 
user406009
When someone asks a question, you either answer, ignore or close vote.
 
user406009
12:04 AM
Flaming doesn't achieve anything.
 
@CatPlusPlus So convince yourself. How does your boss' identity matter?
 
@JerryCoffin The wallet's identity matters
 
@Mysticial Oh wow, link pls?
 
@Mysticial Because of two quite offensive, not to mention completely wrong answers? Yeah I summoned the entire force of the Teachers lounge.
 
@Jefffrey I'm not a mod on any site, so I don't have access to the TL. But I get a pretty good idea of what's going at times.
 
12:07 AM
@CatPlusPlus Not to my wife. She'll empty any wallet she finds...
 
@JerryCoffin hehe
 
I make an exception for my own
 
@CaptainGiraffe How'd you do that? Are you a mod on one of the SE sites?
 
@CatPlusPlus You're throwing your wallet? I'll catch it...
 
@CatPlusPlus your own wife? you are married?
 
12:09 AM
@Mysticial I wasn't aware there is a teachers lounge. I just downvoted.
 
@CaptainGiraffe It's a mod-only room for all SE mods.
 
@CaptainGiraffe This is the teacher's Lounge. Of course, some of the subjects we teach aren't found in most ordinary schools.
 
@Mysticial I should apply for an emeritus position =)
 
@JerryCoffin Yes Mr. Xavier.
2
 
user406009
Let's see what's on today's roster:
 
user406009
12:13 AM
> How to troll: by Dr. Cicada
 
user406009
> How to suck cock: rightfold
 
@Borgleader Sorry, but no. The one in the wheelchair was my dad.
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin I have something sad to tell you. You were adopted.
 
@Lalaland Most importantly, school counselor: Cat++ ("Just quit now. Your life will suck anyway.")
 
I'll teach how nnot to get a job. I'm getting pretty good at that.
 
Ell
12:15 AM
@набиячлэвэлиь oh nice
 
@Lalaland I dunno about adopted, but my dad did once joke that "we had a substitute delivery man that week" (especially as a kid, I looked nothing like any of my brothers).
 
@Morwenn Well std::snort-ing wont help you get one.
 
@Lalaland at least when you make a small mistake with them, it's likely they will still do the work, just not exactly what you ask them to do. unlike C++, show you the message for your error and refuse to work.Then spewing out tens if not hundreds of error messages in all variations, just to emphasize your little error and that you are such an idiot.
 
Should I delete my cpp-snort library?
 
@CatPlusPlus You should play Hotline Miami
There it's 1 hit one kill all enemies.
 
@Morwenn I'll pull it into cpt::snort
 
Even melee weapons.
 
I watched it, I don't really care to play it
 
@Mysticial Wait, how do you know they ganged up on him then?
 
@JerryCoffin lol
 
12:21 AM
@Jefffrey Forensics.
Puppy's answer got a lot of downvotes at the same time. That can only happen if it gets linked from somewhere.
I searched all 3 chat servers, found nothing.
 
Or it was so bad it gained sentience and downvoted itself
 
But I can see a lot of activity from several SE mods in the what is likely the Teacher's Lounge.
 
CSI:Snackchat, Officer Mysticial is on the case.
 
One of which included the person who commented on Puppy's answer.
So the logical conclusion? An SE mod who is active on SO saw Puppy's answer, and dropped it in the TL to recruit an SO mod to delete it.
 
good eventide, loungides
 
12:24 AM
@jaggedSpire IRTA loungicide
 
welcome, mistress
 
@StackedCrooked Of course, some times it works out better than expected. The scene: a high school counselor's office in 1975. Kid walks in with a voice so nasty it almost made the counselor's ears bleed, so the counselor sarcastically suggests he become a singer. Kid's name: Angus Young.
 
Going to sleep. Later.
 
@Borgleader I'm afraid I won't be doing that any time soon ;)
@Morwenn Night!
 
@Morwenn good night
 
12:26 AM
@Morwenn Later.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь how have you been today?
 
@jaggedSpire Alive
 
^_^
 
@набиячлэвэлиь ♪♫still alive♫♪
@Borgleader and the cameraman gained a kitten that day
@набиячлэвэлиь niec
 
12:30 AM
@jaggedSpire IRTA нет, got confused
 
@Borgleader I bet that chest is silky and soft like a cloud
 
@jaggedSpire Just what I needed to sweet dreams :3
 
It seems @CatPlusPlus hates SO to the core, yet he comes here day in & day out.
 
@jaggedSpire But also warm and dry, unlike a cloud.
 
Ell
@Borgleader aww
 
12:32 AM
@JerryCoffin on the whole, much more pleasant. If only it weren't guarded by needle-sharp claws.
 
@jaggedSpire are we still talking about the cat? :P
 
@Borgleader yep! Look at it, it practically glows!
 
it's singing a siren song of fluffiness
 
Ell
^great marketting
> don't reboot it just patch
 
12:36 AM
@Ell catchy
 
Way too long
 
@Mysticial Answer on meta?
@BartekBanachewicz Let's play a game
Every time you hear him saying "Software" it's a shot of tequila
 
@Jefffrey There's nothing on either of metas either.
 
I'm confused
What happened?
 
how are you confused, he linked the answer in here...
and it got nuked (by shog9)
 
12:44 AM
What answer?
 
scroll up
 
About what?
 
@Jefffrey The fact that I saw at least 5 mods talking in a secret room - one of which was Doorknob with timestamps within a few minutes after puppy posted is more than a enough evidence for me.
 
a shit question
 
@Borgleader How many transcript pages up?
 
12:44 AM
1
 
@Borgleader Oh it just happened. Missed it by half an hour
Thanks
 
@CatPlusPlus nice try
I can now proceed to stuffing delicious green tea mochis in my face
 
1:07 AM
@Ell nice
 
1:17 AM
@JamesMatta It doesn't explain the interaction, because there is none. Your expectation should be exactly the same as when they wrote exactly the same here. Do you realize the source of the (understandable) confusion? People are too smart, and they seek meaning where there is none. — sehe 15 secs ago
 
To buy Rust or not to buy Rust
 
Jarhead on TV. And adverts every freaking 15 minutes or at least it seems that way.
 
@Borgleader GTA V.
Also, where's @ElimGarak?
 
@Nooble Too expensive, didnt like GTA IV much
 
@Borgleader Oh :c
 
1:20 AM
GTA:SA best GTA
 
I play it with my friends and it's quite fun.
 
@Nooble I hope he didnt leave us again :(
 
@Borgleader He can't! I have him on FB.
 
user406009
@Nooble He's probably too busy shooting hookers in GTA 5
 
user406009
Gotta get that payment back.
 
1:25 AM
wtf, you can pass C-arrays as rvalues?
 
user406009
@melak47 Do you have an example?
 
user406009
Cool.
 
user406009
Why is that surprising? Seems consistent with the rvalue ideas.
 
@melak47 yeah
 
1:28 AM
> Contributions in the last year: 1,111 total (Nov 5, 2014 – Nov 5, 2015)
Oh baby
 
I used it a lot in pre-constexpr std::initializer_list times
 
I didn't even know passing "literal" arrays like that worked :D
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Yet you still haven't contributed to the "Jerry for dictator of the universe" campaign. What's wrong with you?
 
@набиячлэвэлиь try to maintain that pace until 11/11
 
@JerryCoffin Gotta get dat streak!
 
1:31 AM
or else you suck
 
@LucDanton lol
It's already Current streak: 367 days (November 5 – November 6)
A whole damn year
 
@Borgleader I FOUND IT! I think
directive/with.hpp:    // with directive injects a value into the context prior to parsing.
I'll try to make it work tomorrow
 
> Experience in developing country is a plus – you should know exactly what you are getting into!
 
@sehe :D great success!
 
TIL you can develop countries
 
1:34 AM
yeah. I knew they wanted to make something like qi::locals but more generic (a bit like exception info perhaps? Not looked yet)
 
@GregorMcGregor I had like 4 but I got bored so I deleted them
 
@набиячлэвэлиь My wife gets upset of I'm not careful enough washing the underwear to get rid of any streaks.
 
@JerryCoffin snort
 
> îþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþ‌​îþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþîþî‌​þîþîþîþîþîþ
oops
 
@GregorMcGregor But be careful not to overdevelop or the contrast and grain increases. [Hmm...when was the last time I push-processed some Tri-X. Well, whenever it was, I'm pretty sure it really was the last time.]
 
1:41 AM
you’re oooooooooooooooooooooooooooold
 
@Borgleader I guessed how to inject state, but I fail to guess how to get the content out..
 
@LucDanton Not that old. I never shot or processed any glass plates anyway.
 
use any magnesium powder
 
No docs. No tests. No idea
 
@sehe attribute?
 
1:44 AM
...
There's something in latest develop. example/x3/rexpr/rexpr_full/test/parse_rexpr_test.cpp uses it to inject a stateful error handler
 
@LucDanton Nope (though I have shot a few flash-bulbs that used magnesium filaments).
 
@Borgleader not too complicated to guess, but I was looking for clear signs:
        auto& error_handler = x3::get<error_handler_tag>(context).get();
 
you have to get the begotten
 
@Nooble what a shill :p
 
1:59 AM
It'll say 'playing' as long as I have Unity open
UI WORK IS VERY FUN
 
famous last words
what does unity use for UI description btw
 
@GregorMcGregor pixie dust and the tears of a unicorn
 
Components on game objects like with everything else
Used to be immediate-mode OnGUI method but it sucked and got obsoleted in 4.6
New one still sucks
I'm actually gonna be making my own thing because it's so cumbersome and inextensible
 
so it's coded in an entirely procedural way or?
 
No, it's game objects in the editor, and shitton of components
 
2:04 AM
convenient
 
Rendering keeps fucking up
 
time to go to bed, night all
 
Ell
night
 
2:24 AM
@Borgleader WAIT! Here's the fruit of my X3 labour:
Well. Thank you (the other answer gets my upvote). Here's a bonus Spirit X3 parser. In case you want the whole war story: stream part 1 and part 2 (experiment) — sehe 5 mins ago
In short, I'm starting to get really enthusiastic about X3
And bedtime for me too
Don't fall asleep now
that would be a waste of time
 
@sehe night
@Borgleader night
 
16 manual defines and much "CMakeLists.txt" digging later BearLibTerminal builds
Also fuuuuuck it's 3:33 am, gotta play Need4Sleep: Hot Pursuit. Night y'all
 
night
so alone ;_;
 
download a grillfriand
 
@jaggedSpire yer gonna rip soon, too
 
2:40 AM
@GregorMcGregor but I don't have a 3d printar
 
Oooooh found a waf bug
 
how to ram preformances
 
@GregorMcGregor with peanus
Shit, bed is the other way
Uuuuuh, it's not a bug :sadfaec:
 
user406009
3:05 AM
And now is when the room gets really quiet.
 
user406009
Anyone else here planning on buying Fallout 4 when it comes out?
 
Good evening.
 
@Lalaland Prolly not.
 
user406009
Eh, everyone has their preferred pleasures.
 
user406009
Wow, looking at the chat transcript I really have a distinct writing style.
 
user406009
3:11 AM
> Eh,
 
user406009
> For interest's sake
 
user406009
sehe would probably find me out in 10 seconds if I tried changing user names.
 
Not buying another $60 until Christmas.
 
nickname change is patented
 
@GregorMcGregor You should've gotten a free nick change.
 
user406009
3:13 AM
@GregorMcGregor Aren't you stuck on that nick for like a month now?
 
for an eternity you mean
 
@Lalaland meh, you just need to swap out eh for meh and for interest's sake with OOC
 
user406009
Welcome to the dead times of the chat.
 
3:21 AM
So I've been reading up on x86 instruction set
I have realized x86 is a platypus
and ARM is a monkey
 
quack
 
and MIPS is a robot
Which means x86-64 is an insect-echidina
 
@Lalaland abandon all hope of conversation, ye who venture here
 
user406009
That makes no sense whatsoever.
 
star for tortured metaphor
 
user406009
3:22 AM
x86 is clearly a pigeon.
 
@Lalaland Exactly what x86 is
 
cinch alert
 
user406009
The fuckers are everywhere.
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor What exactly is the context behind this?
 
Ah, I remember first encountering pigeons. It was hate at first sight for the both of us. :)
 
user406009
3:23 AM
I think I missed Cinch.
 
VA is Cinch
 
user406009
Ah.
 
user406009
I think the Mill architecture is very interesting.
 
user406009
We'll see if they can live up to their performance promises.
 
@Lalaland I find it somewhat... hm
Why do they want the belt
 
3:24 AM
for the longest time I couldn't keep the Cinch and Cicada nicknames straight in my head, which led to some really fun times as I tried not to let on which person I thought I was talking about
 
Is it for the functional immutability?
 
@jaggedSpire HEH cinch and cicada straight HEH
 
user406009
It's so you don't need as many registers.
 
Sorry, VermillionAzure and GregorMcGregor
@GregorMcGregor I am glad you find my internal confusion amusing. :)
 
@Lalaland I suppose but in reality we still have a bunch of registers that perform an internal mov every instruction or the circuitry need to iterate through them
 
user406009
3:27 AM
@VermillionAzure Yes, but the CPU no longer needs to fiddle with that logic.
 
@Lalaland They have a stack right?
 
this guy
"Oh you want to play chicken do you? I'm driving a bus."
 
I don't understand the purpose of this. "Prevent the compiler from collapsing the loop."
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure Yes.
 
Wait a minute
Does it have vectorized instructions or something?
 
3:31 AM
I suppose the optimizations are wrecking the function
 
@jaggedSpire fn rekt
 
claps
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor My guess would be that relaxed means the compiler can reorder oldCount = m_count.load(std::memory_order_relaxed); arbitrarily.
 
user406009
So the compiler simply moves them all above the loop.
 
Oh wow
This is really cool
 
user406009
3:33 AM
Especially because they also use memory_order_relaxed in the compare_exchange_strong.
 
So they vectorized instructions by using a very large instruction size to stuff several instruction sequences into one
That's actually pretty brilliant
 
user406009
memory_order_relaxed is simply too hard for mere mortals.
 
user406009
They should have probably used memory_order_acquire in both the load and the compare and exchange.
 
user406009
Atomics are scary.
 
user406009
Actually, I think you only need the memory_order_acquire in the compare exchange and memory_order_consume in the .load
 
3:42 AM
@Lalaland Why
Also, aren't atomics sort of dependent on the architecture's memory?
 
user406009
Atomics are scary as it's impossible to understand every possible reordering of loads and stores.
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure Yes, but the standard provides en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/atomic/memory_order to standardize things somewhat.
 
@Lalaland Unless you use the atomic operations right?
 
user406009
You still get reordering when you use atomics.
 
...which may or may not exist??? Idk
@Lalaland true but there are atomic operations to tell you things, right?
 
user406009
3:43 AM
At least with sequential code and mutexes, you have a lot more guarantees with what is going on.
 
@Lalaland Hmmm I don't know how I feel about mutexes
 
@Lalaland if you’re comfortable with that then iirc you can start with cst
 
This reminds me of the load delay that these Mill slides are talking about
 
it’s intended to mirror those semantics
 
@Lalaland Eh; when in doubt, insert barrier
 
3:45 AM
I wonder, is there some way to use interrupts as an alternative? Or is that bad
because I could choose to use mutexes and stuff but if I'm programming for an i7 Core architecture with naive code I'm guessing that would mean writing to the L3 cache which is slow from what I understand
So there's gotta be some sort of instruction for this right? it is x86 after all
 
@Lalaland Reordering of what
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor Loads and stores.
 
For relaxed atomics only
 
@VermillionAzure And you mention interrupts once again
But whyyyy
 
@CatPlusPlus No but they make sense in the sense of when() as a construct
 
user406009
3:47 AM
@GregorMcGregor If you are not using memory_order_acq_rel, then reordering is still possible.
 
Alternative to what, anyway
Mutexes?
 
user406009
You are just limiting what reordering is allowed.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes
 
That's a completely different category of things
 
@Lalaland Not all reorderings are allowed
 
3:48 AM
And no
 
But maybe mutexes already use some sort of thing for this
There's probably some instruction extension that helps with the memory management
 
Uh
Interrupts are a control flow mechanism, mutexes are a synchronisation primitive
Not related
 
@CatPlusPlus But how are mutexes implemented?
 
user406009
Well, you can use interrupts for concurrency in the same way you can use threads + atomics for concurrency.
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure Atomics.
 
3:49 AM
Is it an atomic load/store? or is it signaling?
 
user406009
+ OS support usually.
 
It's a variable
 
It's the test and set lock instruction
 
Signalling is setting a variable
hth
 
@CatPlusPlus No, not necessarily
We can think continuously instead and have operations start based on the digital voltage threshold instead of having to use logic to test for a value
 
3:51 AM
You're doing this shit again
 
cinch alert raised to national emergency
 
Also you described setting a variable, except on circuit level
 
I think I'll go for lunch now to avoid a serious cinch crisis
 
you're aware there's a reason we interpret the analog signal in the circuits themselves as binary values, right?
 
@Lalaland Uh, no, what; interrupts are what powers scheduling on a single core which enables preemption yes but that's still not related to either atomics or mutii
 
3:53 AM
well, trinary with the middle being "fuck if I know, this bit's bad"
 
@jaggedSpire yeah I know
 
It's still mechanism to control flow (it ~interrupts~ whatever's executing and returns control to the OS, that's why we call them ~interrupts~)
 
But the deal is that instead of relying on memory we just use a non-memory based signaling method so we can remove the memory accessing delay
There's some way to do that?
 
And what is your non-memory thing
 
@CatPlusPlus Use an interrupt signal connected between a core
 
3:55 AM
There are generally too few registers to use them as long-lived variables which mutex needs to be
 
@VermillionAzure I don't think so, but my Computer Architecture class mostly went over primitive processor architecture and the like
 
@VermillionAzure What does that mean
 
@CatPlusPlus Say we have two cores
Both need to access a variable V
 
Also if you're synchronising then you're hitting much bigger overhead than single memory access
 
@VermillionAzure there is a physical delay in communication involved here, even across these distances
 
3:57 AM
@jaggedSpire But still much faster than memory access I'd guess
L3 cache is 40+ cycles on i7 I believe. And that's a modern strong x86 architecture
Unless there's some optimization across the hyper-threads on one core which would solve problems
 
What problems
 
But that works for only two threads sharing one core
 
Again, you're optimising something that doesn't matter
Also okay you raised an interrupt, now what
 
@CatPlusPlus Cache delay is one of the huge performance factors nowadays
 
Interrupts are volatile, they're not state
 
3:58 AM
It's not CPU speed anymore right?
 
@VermillionAzure yes, but this sounds mostly like you're just going to slowly evolve this opinion to "just keep the atomics in a special cache"
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor Still, I like my single threaded, no reordering, code whenever possible.
 
@VermillionAzure Yes, so? It still doesn't matter for mutexes
 
@CatPlusPlus But the mutex itself can't be stored in a lower cache. It's going to be in L3 so every load and store will have a delay to L3
But here's the idea
 
It doesn't matter, synchronising overhead is not dominated by memory access to the mutex
 
3:59 AM
@CatPlusPlus Unless you are switching a lot
 
Then it's still not
 
user406009
IIRC, isn't most of the synchronization overhead due to flushing caches?
 

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