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4:00 AM
@CatPlusPlus What's it dominated by?
 
Context switches are way heavier than any single memory access
That's one thing, other thing is stalling due to locking cores
 
@CatPlusPlus But you lock because of mutexes right?
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure You can have stalling without an explicit lock on a mutex.
 
> lock_acquire:
li $t0, 0 # old
li $t1, 1 # new
cas $t0, $t1, lock
beq $t0, $t1, lock_acquire # failed, try again
 
4:03 AM
But seriously again, you raised an interrupt and now what
Interrupts are not state
 
@CatPlusPlus Well the premise is that a core or thread will continuing executing the non-crucial parts until an interrupt
The interrupt signals that a resource is ready, so now it grabs the resource
 
"It" what
 
user406009
For instance, many lock free algorithms have to repeatedly re-perform work until they succeed.
 
Instead of checking the memory using an atomic instruction, just continue execution until the signal arrives, then perform the sequence that depends on the memory exclusive access
 
user406009
4:05 AM
@VermillionAzure You have just described threading when a blocking operation is reached.
 
That still doesn't solve synchronisation problem
 
@Lalaland But this depends on an atomic instruction
Aren't they... slower or dependent on the memory access anyways?
 
You can't have memory exclusive access without a barrier to ensure that exclusivity
That's a mutex
 
@CatPlusPlus Or you can do it by convention and assume that if you are interrupted, you have exclusive control
 
Otherwise another thread can just enter the same section and you solved jack shit
@VermillionAzure That's never true
 
4:06 AM
If all memory-exclusive-dependent code is invoked only when you have the resource, then you can't have a data race
And if you only generate interrupts if you have the resource, only you have the resource
 
user406009
It sounds like @VermillionAzure is talking about something similar to the Actor model.
 
user406009
You have a resource. There is a queue of tasks for that resource.
 
@Lalaland Yeah I think I vaguely remember that. It's like tag.
 
@Lalaland stop enabling
 
Cooperative threading of some sorts but that's impractical for general usage hence why every general system under the sun is preempted
 
4:08 AM
it’s nothing like that
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus Insert joke about nodejs here
 
@CatPlusPlus Then you can just provide a primitive that is guaranteed to always generate an interrupt and release the resource
The only option is to always release -> always release
 
What "resource"
 
@CatPlusPlus Anything shared.
 
Interrupts are not state, you need state to ensure exclusivity, PERIOD
 
4:09 AM
@CatPlusPlus But you can externally guarantee state by convention
 
Even in cooperative threading you need locks even if they're just bool variables
@VermillionAzure No, you can't
 
@CatPlusPlus But why not?
 
Even if you literally control 100% of the code running in any non-trivial software this is bullshit non-guarantee
@VermillionAzure Because scheduling is not deterministic in general
Because non-enforced convention is just wishful thinking
 
@CatPlusPlus What do you mean by this?
 
"Yep looks fine" is not a way to make software
 
user406009
4:12 AM
@CatPlusPlus If you have some sort of task queue structure, you don't need further locks.
 
@VermillionAzure You can't predict that your code will keep executing and/or no other code will start executing the exact same thing
@Lalaland Yes if you synchronise once then maybe you don't have to synchronise again, radical!
 
@CatPlusPlus That last part doesn't make sense to me
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus Yes, and @VermillionAzure is proposing that everything be done with task queues.
 
@VermillionAzure Ugh before you start optimising and inventing new things I suggest being up to speed on concepts involved
 
user406009
Every resource has it's own queue.
 
4:14 AM
@Lalaland But what queue?
 
You want to eliminate critical sections for some bullshit excuse about optimising something that doesn't need to be optimised and the result is only a brittle unsynchronised system
 
user406009
> Well the premise is that a core or thread will continuing executing the non-crucial parts until an interrupt
The interrupt signals that a resource is ready, so now it grabs the resource
 
user406009
"The interrupt signals that a resource is ready, so now it grabs the resource"
 
And I don't think you know how OSes or interrupts work
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't know how an OS works. I do know how an interrupt works.
 
4:15 AM
Tell me
 
And I hear mutexes and I think, "slow caching"
And I see interrupts and I think, "fast signaling"
 
Because you're thinking about things that don't matter
 
@CatPlusPlus What matters then?
 
The real optimisation is eliminating the need to synchronise, not trying to reinvent synchronisation
I.e. don't share shit
 
user406009
Interrupt's work by having a set of flags in the CPU. In certain cases those flags are checked, and the CPU calls the registered interrupt handler.
 
4:16 AM
@VermillionAzure when’s the next meal
 
@VermillionAzure What mutex enables you to do
 
@Lalaland But aren't those flags usually faster than checking shared memory?
 
Yeah I'm out
 
@CatPlusPlus Which is shared access to a resource without data races, right?
 
4:32 AM
back
data races are not a thing
political correctness mandates you call them "data ethnicities" or "data of colour"
 
> Unlocking all fractal masteries is not feasible doing only fractals
 
> New fractal added: Mandelbrot
 
> An indie game where you mindlessly click on the very fabric of reality with a shovel.
 
Cookie clicker shovel edition?
 
@GregorMcGregor oh boy
 
4:38 AM
Cinch v Cicada: Game of the Year Edition
 
Cinchada
 
:horror:
would someone get banned if they impersonated genesis
 
@GregorMcGregor didn't you know? You are genesis. You have been this whole time!
 
2spooky
 
4:52 AM
@Elim did you get run over by a bus again
 
he needs to stop making that a habit
 
@Elim COME BACK ELIM LET US BROWSE ISLAM.SE TOGETHER ;_;
 
Guys what code style you use? :D
 
> Are echhi anime haram?
> Is make-up haram?
See what you're missing @Elim?
> How to tell my parents I have ocd [on hold]
 
My brain needs to reboot for updates so I'm going to head to bed.
night guis
 
4:58 AM
> killing my grandmother in my dream [on hold]
night @jagged
 
@Ramy K&R
 
Krime&Rape
 
user406009
1
Q: Working as a software developer for a meat supplier

Steve DysonCan I work as a software developer for a company which sells beef and lamb meat (not pork)? This company doesn't sell pork, but their meat is not slaughtered in an Islamic way. They also sell pet food. My role would be designing software for their logistic head office.

 
user406009
Lol
 
0
Q: Zakat at the age of 17

Hüdaverdi Alperen DemirokIs it mandatory for me to pay Zakat, even though I don't have my own job and I always save my money as cash? Also, not to mention that I'm saving up for a PS4 or a custom PC, which are quite expensive to buy.

 
user406009
5:00 AM
That excuse:
 
user406009
> I can't donate because I need to buy GAEMS
 
Fuck yo bullshit tax I need vidya
 
@CatPlusPlus
 
user406009
When you get down to it though, religion is pretty nuts.
 
You really don't have to dig deep
> A shooting game where you eradicate researchers in Europe.
Nazi Simulator 2016
 
5:02 AM
for real?
 
No, I'm clicking through Orteil's generator
 
user406009
I don't think the Nazis targeted researchers.
 
I was both hyped and horrified for a second
 
user406009
The Nazi's themselves were pretty interested in research.
 
5:03 AM
hi
 
> A sim game where you craft birds ad nauseam.
 
aw blocked at work
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor Wow. You really pointed out a goldmine with islam.se. That site is full of craziness. I almost scared to read more questions and answers.
 
> An artsy game where you run away from gods but you're the clumsiest person ever.
And lol
> An FPS where you murder nazis while setting fire to stuff.
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus That could work.
 
5:06 AM
you know those are actually nice concepts
I'm surprised
 
user406009
The "artsy game" one is shit though.
 
> An MMO where you must find hellhounds because thou must.
 
Can any imagine cat becomes a chicken farmer?
 
user406009
@chmod666telkitty No, cause he would simply eat all the chickens.
 
I have to admit, sometimes my tiny brain is not capable of such a profound imagination.
 
user406009
A cat is a cat.
 
stop pluralizing chicken
Apr 1 at 4:09, by Momotapa Limpopo
Islam.SE is a goldmine of hilarity
 
@Lalaland I don't think that's going to happen - I mean in order for him to eat all the chickens, he has to cook them first ...
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor Oh god, the person who posted the "do I need to pay donations when I need money for vidya games" question has a whole suite of related questions.
 
user406009
I think he is a troll.
 
5:13 AM
or an bad moselm
 
user406009
Or maybe, dun dun dun, it's another Cicada sockpuppet!
 
5:27 AM
Any ideas on how to add on typed tagging to an existing module workflow framework?
 
6:07 AM
Rust pattern matching is neat
 
Yes
pattern matching in general is neat
 
Some(Event::KeyPressed { key: KeyCode::Q, ctrl: true, shift: _ }) => break, equality support always welcome
 
I wish we could match on function arguments
fac(0) { 1 }
fac(1) { 1 }
fac(n) { n * fac(n - 1) }
Don't know which languages do this (aside of Prolog)
And @Elyse's
 
Erlang, Haskell
 
Also pls "flow typing" or whatever they call it
 
6:14 AM
@GregorMcGregor Any ML? I don’t understand.
 
really?
In OCaml at least you have to type the match explicitly no?
 
What?
 
let fac n = match n with ...
 
that’s something else
 
idgi then
 
6:18 AM
had to look it up because I know I always mess up function vs fun etc.
let rec fact = function 0 -> 1 | 1 -> 1 | n -> n * fact (n - 1);;
srsly
 
that's just syntax sugar for the former
 
obviously?
Or in other words, oh yes syntax!
 
well then? I still need to type the match
I guess you could argue oh yes syntax
 
what?
 
probably in fact
 
6:21 AM
What does 'type the match' mean?
 
yeah I guess it's just syntax in the end :v
 
wtf do you want
 
let f = match ... vs multiple let
lol Luc is EDGY today
 
Do you want to write a function equation-style or not?
 
6:23 AM
@GregorMcGregor I’m baffled that syntax concerns reduce you to a pile of stupid
fun factorial 0 = 1
  | factorial n = n * factorial (n - 1)
I’m told this is valid SML
functionality of the year
 
3 mins ago, by Gregor McGregor
yeah I guess it's just syntax in the end :v
 
You did ask for a syntax. So you get syntax.
 
much rejoyce
 
F# does the function thing too
 
Well it's essentially OCaml.NET no?
Anyway my thinking was more of "separate" declarations that desugar to a match
So in the end yes it is syntax
Edgy Luc
 
6:28 AM
I don’t know. I’ve read it started that way, but it hasn’t really been like that for some time already
 
I don't know I haven't used it, just read a few snippets, long ago
 
@GregorMcGregor I know it’s syntax, I’m telling you it’s syntax, it’s you that seem to hang up on it?
 
Well excuse me for not being a diamond of extreme brilliance I suppose?
 
@GregorMcGregor Haskell differs a bit from the others on that point
 
@LucDanton do ou use F# much?
 
6:30 AM
@JohanLarsson I don’t use it at all
 
me neither, sadly, looks beutiful
perhaps slow
 
9 mins ago, by Gregor McGregor
well then? I still need to type the match
reminder of shame
look at it
why do I get Racket results if I google for Scheme?
 
I don't really feel ashamed actually
terrifying isn't it
shudders etc
 
don’t think the lisps give you sugar for cond, but I’m no specialist
 
@LucDanton It's most popular Scheme probably
 
6:35 AM
@GregorMcGregor I just thought you actually used OCaml at some point
 
I did, in fact
I was interested in knowing whether we had languages that did the match "outside" of the function body
Not sure how to explain
 
There’s also the fact that beyond the initial culture shock of Haskell-style clauses, they are not free-form. IOW you substitute the more traditional ML | with a newline. Or as we say around these parts…
Oh no, syntax!
Every clause has to have matching number of parameters, etc.
 
Ah yes free form is what I was thinking of I suppose
 
I don’t think any non-logic programming language would have a good reason to stray on that point
 
but syntax
 
6:40 AM
serves semantics
 
A Haskell file/module is several top-level definitions. Why mix them?
 
why not
 
hang on
Definitions is a red-herring
It’s pattern matching, the syntax, serving the need of elimination, the semantics.
 
so far so good
 
6:43 AM
It’s for closed variants that splitting the alternatives is pointless, for type-safety/avoiding partial functions reasons
for polymorphic unions it’s an open question
in Haskell-land the closest thing is combining prisms (i.e. optics/lenses territory), which you can compile separately in a type-safe fashion
 
aside of the claimed pointlessness I see no glaring disadvantages
 
When I say 'closed variant' and 'elimination' I’m assuming the language really does care about AlgDTs.
it’s not about advantages, it’s about semantics
 
@LucDanton if it really is just syntax I don't see what that changes
 
@GregorMcGregor no it’s semantics
 
well then it's no longer syntax!
 
6:48 AM
An eliminator for a closed variant handles all alternatives, by definition. I’m assuming that the language lets you write those eliminators.
You can add syntax for other things, too. Justify them yourself.
 
How does having several top level definition breaks the semantics of having to write all alternatives
I'd agree that it makes it perhaps less easy to read and/or confusing
 
@GregorMcGregor pattern matching syntax does save you from huge headaches btw, if you consider examples that match on more than one argument
@GregorMcGregor for one it’s harder/more confusing to report name collisions
 
that's more QoI/user experience than semantics
 
@GregorMcGregor I think it’s Occam’s. You could decide to have a syntax that lets you interleave literals so that """abcdef""" really is two literals "acf" "bdf", but we usually don’t. We prefer to let things that logically belong together, together.
My argument was clarifying in what sense alternatives of a variant belong together—because they stand for an eliminator.
 
Did you know Occam was actually beardless
yes I just made that up don't google it
 
6:55 AM
Uggh fucking unsigned types
 
@GregorMcGregor oh no I fell for it
 
you're so gullible
 
it’s kinda no surprise that using a razor leaves you beardless btw
that’s in fact how I manage to be beardless myself
 
pic or fake etc
 
I don’t want to go shave, so no
 
6:57 AM
sry I don't talk with terrorists
 
    let space_left = 80 - (spacing as i32 * 2) - x as i32;
    if space_left < (tag.len() + (spacing * 2)) as i32 {
I love unsigned types used for lengths and shit
lovve
 
Weird question: how hard would it be to map virtual memory to a remote computer's RAM?
 
With RDMA not very hard
But you need special hardware support
It's not weird at all BTW and quite commonplace in high performance computing etc
Look up RoCE, iWarp and Infiniband
And free form pattern matching
 
Huh. It's actually a thing? Cool.
 
Well yeah it's been for a while
but it needs special hardware so rip
 
7:10 AM
I started wondering this because I saw some guy ask about using Memcached as a substitute for RAM. Memcached seems like absolutely the wrong tool for the job, but I wasn't sure what the right tool would be or what weird things you'd have to do to fit Memcached into that role.
 
Even with RDMA it would be a bad idea
Performance would be extremely bad
Transferring hundreds of gigabytes would still be slow
 
Hey there,
	We have a very personal question we would like to ask you
snap right there
you don't even bother to find out my name, yet you have a very personal question to ask me?
 
7:26 AM
Is it Robert
 
@chmod666telkitty is the question: "What is your name?" :p
 
I think Robert is a pretty safe bet
who else votes for Robert
thanks for the overwhelming support
 
All names eventually lead to Bob
 
@TonyTheLion His name is Robert Pauls[oe]n!
 
Xeo
8:00 AM
Bob Bobson McBobbins
^ your next name, @Gregor
 
mawning
 
@JonClements my name is in their database
they could have sent me a 'more personal' email
 
@chmod666telkitty I had one once subject of: "FAO Jon Clements" - then it started with "Dear James"... was fairly close I guess :p
 
@Xeo My next nickname has already been decided and is indicated in my profile, as usual :p but thanks, that one is nice too, keeping it for the future.
Avatar is chosen already
It's serious buisness you know
 
is it Type the Match
 
8:13 AM
I got that reference
> I'm developing C application my app uses OpenMP and OpenGL I also need to accelerate my app using CUDA I've learnt CUDA C and I was misunderstanding what is CUDA C what is CUDA C++ and how the nvcc compiler compile host code as a c++ and not c so it's recommended to write your app in c++ or learn how to call cuda code in .cu file from .c c file which is your app what is the best way to call cuda code from c (not c++) code and how to compile and link it ?
what is punctuation
> graduated from faculty of computer and information science Ain-Shams university studied 4 years credit hours program in Bioinformatics looking for Do and publish research and learning Openmp mpi opengl cuda opencl opeacc HPC distributed computing parallel computing gpu computing matlab mathematica to use it in my research and work in bioinformatics i am new to linux and c but i know java
well
 
tl;dr
 
Is it really okay to post those here?
 
post what
 
"References".
Data protection act and stuff.
 
I don't understand
Are you saying I shouldn't be quoting a user's profile?
 
8:27 AM
Oh. I thought it was from hiring or something. My bad.
 
Also what is data protection act
is it a american thing
 
A UK thing.
 
well then how would that apply here :w
 
May be there are equivalent laws in other countries.
 
user1804599
 
8:32 AM
blocked at work
 
user1804599
lol
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
F# and OCaml are similar:
 
user1804599
let rec fac = function
    | 0 => 1
    | 1 => 1
    | n => n * fac (n - 1)
 
user1804599
function is short for fun __x -> match __x with.
 
user1804599
8:36 AM
@Lalaland unhappiness
 
"So, tonight, kiss me like it is do or die." sounds kinda rapey.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think you'll find the correct grammar there would have been "Three dudes and I"
 
@Elyse so do you have to type the match
 
user1804599
What do you mean?
 
user1804599
F# and OCaml feature type inference.
 
8:42 AM
nothing, just poking luc with the digital equivalent of a small flexible stick
The Haskell version seems exactly what I meant
 
oh, stick
 
Is 1 => 1 necessary? /pedantism
 
now to figure whether it breaks the semantics
 
user1804599
Oh I missed the Pat Condell video from two days ago. :O
 
user1804599
I feel slow.
 
8:44 AM
Did you know that Condell is shorthand for Condition Verbibell
 
user1804599
No!
 
> Third world rape is bad? What an intolerant and racist thing to say.
 
@GregorMcGregor you wanted free form
 
@GregorMcGregor ... what's a Verbibell? some sort of vegan bell?
 
user1804599
vegan taco bell
 
8:48 AM
@LucDanton I got it
 
@GregorMcGregor no
 
pls no facts
 
user1804599
@GregorMcGregor better be racist than get raped.
 
woah, who dares to use the truth?
 
Morning lounge
 
8:55 AM
@Elyse it's cultural improvement you bigot
 
@GregorMcGregor Too bad there’s no OOP maniac around to bash you over the head with multimethods
 
pls suffer in silence
 
user1804599
@GregorMcGregor racism in exchange for less rape? indeed. ideal would be a lack of both.
 
let's compromise: rapism
 
user1804599
 
8:57 AM
zip, gzip; mail, gmail; rape, grape; @_@
 
@GregorMcGregor it's what makes up an orgasm
@LucDanton I could try to act the part...
 
user1804599
This is so yummy:
 
user1804599
 
ragh! you need to have everything encapsulated in objects so that you can have huge amounts of indirection and mutable state that makes it really hard to solve problems, but slightly easier to teach people how to write in this style of code!!!
@Elyse what is it?
 
user1804599
Kohlrabi.
 
9:00 AM
@GregorMcGregor like that
 
Looks kinda like a really crappy looking artichoke
@Elyse I wan to know more
 
Artichoke, eeeeewwww
 
user1804599
It's an edible plant.
 
@LucDanton neat. is that multimethods? what I really like about this is that you don't have to type the match
 
@GregorMcGregor I’ve actually never used it so can’t say for sure, but the way the example is presented I assume it does play nice with Julia multimethods
 
user1804599
9:05 AM
> Electricity generated in Switzerland is 56% from hydroelectricity and 39% from nuclear power
 
user1804599
nice
 
@Elyse Yes they buy the nuclear energy from france at night when it's cheap to pump water up the barrages then sell it the next day during day for profit
 
i.e. unlike an ML pattern match it’s not order-sensitive
^also a good reason why you don’t want to split up alternatives
 
user1804599
Meh, non-order-sensitive pattern matching.
 
user1804599
Requires complex rules for determining the best match, like C++ overloading with implicit conversions.
 
9:12 AM
@Rerito it's a nice taste, depending on how it's done.
 
Always hated it
 
@GregorMcGregor barrages?
 
user1804599
Artisjokken zijn lekker.
 
you mean the hydro-electric damns?
 
user1804599
@Ven in do. f. x <- g. ... end. I'm gonna require f to be of type m ().
 
9:16 AM
@thecoshman hydro-electric goddamns, actually
 
<PostBuildEvent>$(SolutionDir).paket\paket.exe pack output .\publish</PostBuildEvent>
Looks like the command is run without parameters
 
user1804599
Game addict Dennis (21) can't stop with online therapy
 
@JohanLarsson idk why I cringe everytime I see paths with \
 
user1804599
> Dennis (21) began several months ago with online therapy to get rid of his gaming addiction. He now spends eighteen hours a day on online exercises, assignments and chat sessions with his therapists.
2
 
9:22 AM
guess I can make a batch file that wraps it
 
user1804599
> Nostalgia is not what it was
 
user1804599
Je suis un amoureux de la botanique.
 
Mais plutôt botanique sa race ou botanique ta mère ?
 
user1804599
Chaque monade est un foncteur applicatif, et chaque foncteur applicatif est un foncteur.
 
Le foncteur sonne toujours deux fois.
 
9:36 AM
je m'apelle Michael
Bonjour!
 
@GregorMcGregor Reminds me of a WTF film by Les Inconnus :p
 
9:58 AM
@Elyse that's a lot of dummies
 
user1804599
> font-family: Bukkake
 

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