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10:00 PM
@JohanLarsson Is that an order or just a suggestion?
 
depends on what ^ means
 
Ell
10:18 PM
Hi
 
@Ell Hell I! err, umm....Hi Ell!
 
IL
 
oh bby you are the best <3 <3
 
@ScottW Your avatar would undoubtedly approve of the sentiment (but please stop drooling on the carpet).
 
@ScottW We'll feed you love everyday :3
 
10:32 PM
@ScottW Tried that. Didn't seem to help much. In retrospect, feeding fruit salad to a dog may have been a mistake though.
 
woof!
 
@ScottW Kinky.
 
oy, bitches
I said, WOOF.
 
What does the puppy say?
 
10:40 PM
@Puppy the pic looks more like jau, jau, jau...
 
the puppy says
transforming a bunch of imperative mutating code into pure functional CPS is a bitch
 
> Love is like an acquired taste.
I love this characterization. It fits, for me.
 
@ScottW From fruit salad last July? That seems strange?
 
Is Gu.Spara a good name for a library that handles reading and saving to files?
 
user1804599
10:48 PM
 
harsh
 
@JohanLarsson Maybe--if they're files of Goo from Sparta.
 
dunno what it means++ :)
 
@jaggedSpire boop
 
Hello.
 
10:54 PM
am i a hispter for wanting one? :(
 
Not rusty enough.
 
sdd
Does the Cyberghost VPN only protects you when surfing on internet, or am I also safe when I use Popcorn Time?
 
omh I get it
 
10:57 PM
Why isn't anyone saying hello to me?
 
that's genius
 
damnit
VS ICE
 
@Borgleader No. Wanting one doesn't make you a hipster. Wanting one is just a symptom of your being a hipster.
 
guess I should have expected that when I made like 99999999 nested polylambdas with multi-return inferred return types.
 
@ScottW I'mmmm nottttt daaatttiiiing Viiiiccckkkyyyy.
 
10:58 PM
@JerryCoffin But it's a good looking product. And original... :(
 
n4451 requires all metobjects to have a this_type member, so that metafunctions do not require using ::type
 
@sdd Why exactly is this flagged?
did i miss a thing?
 
@Mr.kbok That mirrored proposal?
 
sdd
@Borgleader What do you mean by flagged?
 
@ScottW she's just a friend
 
10:59 PM
with this seemingly dumb convention, you can have stuff like for_each<base_classes<foobar>> without giving up on the specializations :D
 
@Borgleader Where "original" is defined as "copies from entire classes of products rather than individual ones."
 
@Morwenn yes
@Morwenn it's a bit rough on the edges to say the least, but the underlying ideas are really good
 
@JerryCoffin Original as in, these days most computers look alike and they dont look like that one. At least, the ones I come across.
 
0
Q: uber-thick dialog borders in apps on Ubuntu

wilxSince update to Ubuntu Wily, I see uber-thick borders around some dialogues. E.g., this in Evince: Is there a way to fix this?

Shameless plug.
Any ideas?
 
@Mr.kbok It felt like a complete and rather thought-through proposal to me.
 
11:00 PM
@Nooble the question isnt are you, but would you
 
@Borgleader Really? To me most computers look a lot like cars and phones.
 
@wilx Ever tried to find images of shameless plugs?
 
@Morwenn it's really thought-through, but still lacks explanations, specifying, and correcting small errors
you have stuff like std::integral_type in it
 
@Nooble Start to
 
@Morwenn lol. Nope. And because you asked, I do not think I want to try.
 
11:02 PM
@Mr.kbok Yeah. And SG7 seemed to be like "it's so big we don't know what to think about it", so I don't know where it's heading.
@wilx It's fun and should be safe for work :p
 
@JerryCoffin I must be really tired, for a moment there I forgot who I was dealing with :)
The goliath to my david -.-;
 
@Morwenn They're already at SG-7? What happened to colonel O'Neill?!?
 
@Mr.kbok I hope hes not dead :(
and its general O'Neill now :P
 
time flies
 
@Morwenn Hehe. I do not believe you about the SFW part. But I am at home. Let me try...
 
11:04 PM
you fool
 
@Mr.kbok He realized too late that crossing a star gate wasn't atomic. The perks of SG1.
 
no but really what are those SG things :)
 
Not too bad. :D
 
@Borgleader Are you threatening to kill me? That's not nice at all.
 
@wilx Yeak, right? :D
@Mr.kbok Subgroups/Study groups.
 
11:06 PM
and SG7 is?
 
SG7 is reflection and SG1 is parallelism and concurrency.
 
Bah.
 
@JerryCoffin In a battle of wits? I try, but I have a terrible track record so far
 
I have just run out of Blacklist to watch.
@Puppy I think you are the wanker in this instance. :) Separate style sheets are a good thing.
 
hmmmm
 
11:08 PM
@Borgleader In case you'd forgotten, David did actually kill Goliath...
 
Microsoft preprocesses to a file with default extension .i, and Connect refuses files with filetype .i.
wanker
 
@wilx Simple cure: don't start watching a series until it's already over.
 
@wilx Everybody says that, but nobody can give any compelling reason why.
 
@JerryCoffin That's like no fun...
@Puppy You are a wanker, that is given. :D
 
@wilx I actually prefer it, but I've always been a bit strange, I guess.
 
11:10 PM
Also, separation of concerns, maintainability, multiple style sheets for different media?
 
if only stylesheets actually helped with any of those things
 
@Borgleader I dunno.
 
@Puppy Ugh, sure they do. You can use different style sheet for mobile phone renderer and different for PC, etc. You can use multiple style sheets to customize shit, etc.
 
sure, you can do, but it's a dumb idea.
a mobile version of a web application is more than just a stylesheet change away.
and really, most styles work well for all devices
 
In fairness, I think Puppy does have at least a little bit of a point: regardless of the theoretical advantages in terms of abstractions (e.g., "separation of concerns"), CSS is such a mess that instances of its doing more good than harm seem to be few and far between.
 
11:15 PM
@JerryCoffin You need CSS to do pretty much anything these days on the web. You cannot avoid it.
 
you need styles
that's not the same thing in the slightest.
 
@wilx Sort of true--and also a large part of why 99% of the web is such an unmitigated disaster.
 
@JerryCoffin Whatever. But that is beside the point we are arguing about. :)
 
Could be worse.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm finding it difficult to find out what those are even alleged to be.
everybody else in the Lounge just seems to think that CSS is better by default, never thought about it, and won't consider or reason about it.
 
11:17 PM
Whatever. This is just Puppy being himself again.
 
sure, don't bother to back yourself up with reasons, that's too hard
 
@Puppy I did. You are like the kid sticking fingers in his ears shouting "Lalalalalala, I do not hear you! Lalalala!"
 
you did, but none of them make sense.
 
what is going on
 
@GregorMcGregor Drama!
 
11:19 PM
you children can't be left alone for a few hours can you
 
stylesheets don't separate concerns in the slightest, and nor does it aid maintainability.
 
@Morwenn can I be part of SG7 :3
 
@ScottW What part?
 
in fact, I'm increasingly unconvinced that the alleged concerns are even different things that should be separate.
 
Good eve @all from cozy Antarctica!
 
11:19 PM
@Puppy You have the content and the style separate. How is that not separation of concerns?
 
because they're not separate at all.
 
@Mr.kbok Sure. Subscribe to the C++ future proposals reflection group and try to do shit about it. Currently it seems like it's not going anywhere.
 
@ScottW Since there are no casts in Haskell, I think so.
 
the content has to be labelled with a bunch of classes telling it what styles to use.
 
@ScottW theoretically, it doesn't need.
 
11:20 PM
and the styles can't remotely apply to random content, they only really work for specific HTML structures to make sense.
 
@Morwenn cool, I love doing shit
 
@Puppy If you are not retarded, you label the semantic and structure. The styles do the styling. You do not label the styles like big or thick.
 
@Mr.kbok Also, if you really want to discuss things, meetings is probably the best place to do so.
 
@wilx That does not matter in the slightest, because if the content changes, the styles are gonna look like complete arse, if they even work at all.
the classes and the content are completely coupled.
 
@Morwenn yeah, that's probably gunna be harder :/
 
11:22 PM
@Puppy I can understand (for example) the basic point of separating the data being presented from the markup deciding how it should be presented. It's also true that HTML is in an ugly middle ground where it mostly fails at modeling either specifics (specifying a font) or the abstract (modeling a book with N chapters, etc.)
 
@Puppy If you do it, I now do not doubt that will be the result.
 
@Mr.kbok nice try
 
@GregorMcGregor you're late for gaming night dude
 
@Mr.kbok There's a meeting in Finland in June 2016.
 
Contrarian, is that you @Puppy?
 
11:23 PM
@JerryCoffin I can understand that too. CSS and HTML simply doesn't achieve that in the slightest. A more meaningful separation would be, I dunno, a web service returning some JSON, and then the client rendering that with HTML and CSS.
 
@LucDanton That sounds like a fix dynamic languages would do
 
@Puppy LOL. You have just described 99 % of web apps in existence.
 
CSS is a little the same way: on one hand, it's true that it puts the formatting for some information into a separate file (or stream, etc.) from the raw data. At the same time, it largely fails to really separate concerns--for example, I can't have some generic style sheet that I can apply to web pages in general, and give them all a similar look and feel.
 
Pffff, two bugs I reported to GCC were already fixed by the time I reported them. In a sense, it's good, but that's no fun :(
 
yeah, but the separation of concerns is not HTML and CSS being separate.
it's the JSON and the client being separate.
that's a real separation of concerns.
the HTML and the CSS both serve the same purpose- to render that JSON.
 
11:25 PM
@Puppy That is a separation on different line/level. Still, it is a separation.
 
@CatPlusPlus Is that an irregular verb
 
it's only a separation if they're meaningfully separated.
 
@Puppy ...
 
you can't apply stylesheets without detailed knowledge of the HTML, and the HTML is more-or-less unusable without the appropriate styles.
they can't function independently at all.
 
@GregorMcGregor Zong
 
11:26 PM
Let's all zing a zong together
 
@GregorMcGregor that’s why GC is superior
 
@Puppy Sure they can. At least HTML is useful without CSS.
 
perhaps if you want your website to look like complete ass and be unable to implement basically any useful UI design
 
@Puppy That was the general thought of how XML was going to be useful (but it failed utterly, of course). I'm not at all sure JSON gives you what you'd need to do much either though (e.g., no way to say "this data tells about inventory on hand, that data is about orders").
 
11:27 PM
HTML is theoretically useful without CSS but any practical use for it separately ended years ago.
 
^ ...reading this now.
 
@JerryCoffin Strictly speaking, that's named by the request sent, like I dunno, site/inventory/whatever
 
@Morwenn is there a mailing for SGs? how does that work?
 
13 mins ago, by wilx
@JerryCoffin You need CSS to do pretty much anything these days on the web. You cannot avoid it.
 
11:29 PM
uguhughughuhg
 
@JerryCoffin On web. You can render documents into HTML without custom CSS.
 
As you can see, nothing has been done since July.
 
@wilx You can, but nobody does, and for very good reason.
 
@JerryCoffin I do, from Markdown.
 
@Morwenn report some MSVC bugs then. That should be wholesome and last you for a while
 
11:30 PM
Shut up about CSS already
 
@melak47 I can't tell bugs and features appart.
 
@Morwenn Easy: all bugs, no features
 
@Puppy That can theoretically work, but produces an inefficient design where everything you want has to be requested individually.
 
@CatPlusPlus /me gives @CatPlusPlus some Friskies. Here. You shut up.
 
11:31 PM
@JerryCoffin Well, arguably, you could just request inventories instead and post some form-encoded array of ids or whatever
 
And to be honest, I've already too many g++ vs. clang++ problems to add MSVC to the lawyer-fest.
 
user406009
@chmod666telkitty Sure, if you make cakes out of shit.
 
@Puppy Didn't you read chapter five of [Fielding 2000] ?
 
no.
 
@Puppy There are all sorts of things you could do--but most of them quickly degenerate into problems even worse (if that's possible) than what's currently done on the web.
 
11:33 PM
@Morwenn thanks.
 
Dear users: old toolsets are corrosive. Please stop drinking hydrofluoric acid and using VS 2013.
 
meh REST
 
@wilx You have my condolences.
 
@JerryCoffin lol, why? :)
 
11:34 PM
@JerryCoffin If you really needed to, you could just encode some metadata in the JSON at your leisure.
 
> Motivating example for reflection
is this you @Morwenn?
 
@Borgleader When does my vim get rusty?
 
@Borgleader lol STL we still use vs2005 at work
 
@Mr.kbok @JerryCoffin, he needs your condolences more than I do! :)
 
@Mr.kbok Haha, I had totally forgotten about that one :D
 
11:36 PM
@Mr.kbok ☑ RIP ☐ not RIP
 
By yeah, it was me.
 
Ell
Is transgenderism a mental disorder?
 
I also have a couple of bad suggestions in the overall future proposals forum.
 
@Ell Depends on how you define "disorder".
 
Ell
Or gender dysmorphia or we its called
 
user406009
11:37 PM
@Mr.kbok What's VS 2005 stuck on? C++03?
 
Ell
@Puppy right, thats my indirect question
 
@Ell Dysphoria?
 
Ell
I wanted to give context
 
user406009
@Ell Defining disorders is tricky.
 
@Morwenn combination of address starting with morw... + obvious frenchie grammar error
 
user406009
11:37 PM
IIRC, one of main criteria is that it hurts the patient.
 
user406009
Does trangenderism hurt the patient?
 
user406009
Is it considered normal?
 
@Mr.kbok Ow, come on :(
 
@Lalaland Dying is considered normal and I intend to put that off for as long as possible.
6
 
@Morwenn I don't mean "obvious error" but "obvious frenchie", eh.
 
user406009
11:38 PM
Dying hurts the patient.
 
So, is anybody going to buy any Steam hardware / console?
 
@Ell It's pretty tricky to define what is and is not a disorder.
 
@Lalaland actually dying stops the pain
 
@wilx No. Literally nobody will buy any Steam hardware. Every unit will be unsold.
 
@wilx I already have one, its my fucking PC :)
 
11:39 PM
@Borgleader Dear STL: what else is news
 
@Puppy Don't facetious. You know what I am asking about. :)
 
@Mr.kbok I love how the ony answer I got was more or less useless though.
 
@wilx Click the back-arrow and see what it's a reply to, since you've apparently forgotten what you said all of five minutes ago (or so).
 
personally, I think that transgenderism is not a disorder.
I don't really see any long-term negative effects, for anybody involved.
 
@Lalaland well - it's kinda obvious
 
11:40 PM
people who are transgender can live full and happy lives.
 
@JerryCoffin I did, that is why "lol, why?" What part of my using Markdown to HTML conversion has triggered it?
 
Not doing anything about it tends to induce depression, so...
 
@Puppy I would agree, still we are not the doctors that decides these kind of things.
 
there's no activity in SG7 since july
 
Transgenderism is fine as long as you don't cut penises because that's a terrible terrible waste of penises
 
11:41 PM
@Morwenn Well, I would argue that depression is definitely a disorder and the fact that untreated transgenderism leads to it is not really important.
 
@Mr.kbok Yep. Also I don't remember the minutes, but I don't think SG7 met in Kona either.
 
am i tolerant yet
 
@Mr.kbok Oh, Study Group! I was, yet again, thinking about Star Gate.
 
there are lots of things that can lead to depression that are obviously not disorders
like I dunno, missing the bus.
or losing a game of table football.
 
@wilx The fact that doing so is sad (though, of course, yes, there are undoubtedly worse ways you could waste your time as well).
 
11:42 PM
@Puppy The mere fact that we can talk about "treating" it is troubling though. Some would say it's a physical disorder then, but that's still not a saisfying answer.
 
@JerryCoffin Well, it is one way to send nicely structured text through HTML email. :)
 
Overall, the only real question is: how can we help transgendered people who need help? The fact that it may or may not be a mental disorder is irrelevant.
 
First we can help them off VS2013
 
@wilx HTML email? Yet more condolences seem to be in order.
 
Programming is a mental disorder
 
11:43 PM
@Morwenn The same people who help with depressions the rest of the people, psychologists and psychiatrists.
3
 
@Morwenn You can treat lots of things that aren't disorders. Like a cut.
 
And psychopaths wait what
 
@Morwenn that sucks. whats sucks even more is that some guy implemented enhanced enums just like I did :[
 
@JerryCoffin Dude, don't tell me your Evil Corporation does not use Outlook or similar and that you are sending only pure text emails. :)
 
@wilx That's what currently done.
 
11:45 PM
@Morwenn The only real question? I hope you don't mean that seriously.
 
Every MUA worth using can send plain text
 
user406009
@Mr.kbok What are "enhanced enums"?
 
@Mr.kbok enhanced in what way?
 
like your penises guys
 
Why would you ever send HTML emails when HTML rendering is email clients is fucked up at best
 
11:45 PM
why does anybody still use an email client instead of a web page?
 
user406009
@Mr.kbok Quickly looks You mean not enhanced at all?
 
~web page~ is also an email client (and also a worse one)
 
 
@wilx I'm pretty sure every email client I've used for well over a decade has been able to format and render HTML. I'm much more certain, however, that I avoid such crap like the plague that it is.
 
@Puppy email client works when internet doesn't :v
 
11:46 PM
@CatPlusPlus I tried sending plain text to Outlook. It was like they substituted every combination of \n and \r to ''
 
@Lalaland sorry, you're looking at the enhanced version already.
 
Ever since I have seen this, I feel like I am depressed the last 2-3 years.
 
why would anyone be transgender when you can be gay instead
@wilx watching paint dry is very interesting
 
@JerryCoffin Well, I communicate with people who all have Outlook, so I do not see a problem with HTML emails. :)
 
@GregorMcGregor What.
 
11:47 PM
does it dry from top to bottom or bottom to top?
 
user406009
@GregorMcGregor ...
 
personally
 
@GregorMcGregor why would anyone write C++ when you can write Wide instead
 
A problem with HTML emails is people using formatting where it doesn't belong
 
@JerryCoffin Too many of them actually :p
 
11:47 PM
@GregorMcGregor topkek
 
@wilx I mostly communication with people who have Outlook. That's a large part of why I see virtually nothing but problems with HTML email.
 
@GregorMcGregor It is a different axis of freedom, dude.
 
more seriously @melak47 @Lalaland it's an enum that you declare with a macro like ENUM(foo, val = 1, plop, etc) and the you can enumerate values, lexical_cast to/from values, get a mpl tuple out of all values, etc. what have you
I implemented this and we use it a lot at work
 
@Mr.kbok You can find several such libraries on Code Review too.
 
@Mr.kbok neat. except the macro I guess
 
11:48 PM
I talked about it here but there wasn't a lot of interest so
@Morwenn yeah, well. mine's better
 
-1
Q: How to solve recurrence T(n) = T(n/2) + n, T(1) = 0

M0rtyI know the solution to this T(n) = 2n - 2 but I can't understand how to get to this point. I have tried a few examples online but I'm just not getting it. Could someone please talk me through getting the solution? I'm currently studying for an exam.

fail
 
Q: Do people ever understand my jokes
A: what jokes???
 
@GregorMcGregor I did!
 
@Puppy Poor bastard.
 
@GregorMcGregor I do not. I always assume serious intent first. :)
 
11:49 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь ur speshul
 
@Morwenn actually the best one is probably anton's and that sucks for me. I have to chech if this is the case
 
Not just with you.
 
@Puppy The question is quite simple and clear actually:
> Could someone please talk me through getting the solution?
 
@wilx 10/10 very good idea
 
The answer is "NO".
 
11:50 PM
If you have to assume anything then you lost anyway
 
@GregorMcGregor you can be both if you like
 
In fact I often contribute serious opinions to this room that generally advance the discussion
For example:
 
@Mysticial I decided to give him a technically correct but clearly completely unhelpful answer.
 
@Mysticial Good good let the hatred for snack overflow flow through you
 
@Mysticial So close to posting the answer containing just NO (as per http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/26711088#26711088)
 
11:51 PM
@GregorMcGregor M U S T...C O N T R O L...U R G E....T O....K I C K .... Please distract with a joke. This time one that's actually funny!
 
0
A: How to solve recurrence T(n) = T(n/2) + n, T(1) = 0

Puppy Could someone please talk me through getting the solution? No.

 
ok ill go back to this later
 
@Puppy And you are not even being reasonably nice to OP.
 
@JerryCoffin His mother's mass
 
11:53 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь His mother has mass? I didn't even realize she was Catholic.
4
 
bye guys sleep well
 
@Mr.kbok night
 
@Mr.kbok You sleep well.
 
@Mr.kbok G'night.
 
@JerryCoffin snort
 
11:54 PM
@CaptainGiraffe That's the point.
 
std::snort
O(n log n) in-place snorting algorithm.
 
@Puppy Why not a close vote instead?
 
@Mysticial Remove your comment, plix, you're ruining the atmosphere.
 
@Morwenn you a drug addict mate? :P
 
@CaptainGiraffe Because that would not be funny.
 
11:55 PM
@Morwenn std::snort(cocaine.begin(), cocaine.end(), nose)
 
uggh fucking Unity doesn't allow me to extend game preview onto both screens
 
@набиячлэвэлиь std::insert_iterator(nose)maybe?
 
@набиячлэвэлиь What are you even comparing with your nose?
 
How am I supposed to test shit that happens at higher resolutions than a single screen
 
Can't wait for the projection parameter.
 
11:56 PM
@Morwenn :eyeroll:
@melak47 nose satisfies the requirements of an InputIterator
 
@CatPlusPlus Convince your boss you need quad 5K monitors?
 
@CatPlusPlus Set up X11 virtual desktop bigger than your screen?
 
@JerryCoffin TBH, I can't tell which is a bigger insult.
 
I'm my boss, this is not X11
 
@набиячлэвэлиь obviously.
 
11:57 PM
@CatPlusPlus I do not care. Just do it!
 
Thank you for your valuable contribution
 
@Mysticial It is a tough call--they're both huge (but still not as big as ...well, you know where that one goes, don't you?)
 
@CatPlusPlus You are welcome. :D
 

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