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9:01 AM
buy it whilst it's on sale.
 
yeah.. nothing wrong with saving money.
 
Xeo
Meh, Indie - Addictive didn't win - again
and now it's just some tools, bleh
ooh, Action - Platformer
that looks kinda good
prolly won't win again, though
 
installing Banished now.
 
@Chimera Never used C or never used any imperative language?
 
@FredOverflow Oh I've used C for over 20 years.. mostly embedded development.
 
9:11 AM
Well, just forget about pointers and you should be fine.
 
@FredOverflow Yeah, I've written some C++ ( small stuff ) and actively avoid them...
Because I remember you guys telling me a year ago that in C++ you shouldn't ever really need pointers.
 
wat.
you shouldn't ever need owning raw pointers.
bit of a key distinction there.
I find that I have to use non-owning raw pointers all the time.
 
Well, isn't it a good idea to try and avoid the smart pointers when possible?
 
no.
smart pointers are perfectly safe.
values are preferable, but there's certainly nothing actively unsafe about using a smart pointer.
that's what makes them smart.
 
user1804599
@Chimera wtf
 
9:14 AM
@rightfold Can you clarify please?
 
Xeo
@Chimera It shouldn't need raw, owning pointers
 
user1804599
That would mean never using them at all, since they are always avoidable.
 
and if you have to deal with dynamic storage duration, they are the best option by a considerable mile.
 
user1804599
But that’s not necessarily good.
 
Xeo
Throw out the concept that "T* owns the pointee"
it's but an observer in C++
 
9:15 AM
@Xeo Got it...
 
Xeo
(Unless you have really weird stuff going on, but then your design probably sucks anyways)
 
personally, my code is littered with both smart pointers and non-owning raw pointers.
 
@rightfold Ok perhaps a bit of an over generalization.
 
user1804599
People who avoid smart pointers must be avoided.
 
Xeo
I want the C++ community to reach a point where you don't need to qualify "raw pointer" with "non-owning" anymore, make it be the default.
 
9:17 AM
it is amongst the more educated
 
Yes, I've not used a single raw pointer in the small amount of C++ code I've written..
 
user1804599
Oh, Ramadan began.
 
user1804599
Hurray! More food left for me!
 
Xeo
Anyone here played TowerFall - Ascension before?
 
And honestly I haven't done anything in C++ complicated or complex enough to really need to even use smart pointers. I think I've used shared and unique a few times..
 
9:20 AM
unique is the best
 
user1804599
weak!
 
But I'm working on a project at work now that will most assuredly be complex and push my brain to the limits and force me to come up to speed quickly with C++. Which is a good thing because I've been dragging my feet... kind of still enjoying the simplicity of C.
 
Xeo
s/simplicity/primitivity/ :)
 
LOL
C code isn't simple at all.
it's far more complex than the equivalent C++.
 
@Puppy C has far fewer rules and idioms to learn to use it effectively.
 
user1804599
9:23 AM
You cannot use C effectively.
 
What is the equivalent of the following C++ code in C?
std::string name;
getline(std::cin, name);
 
@rightfold Bullshit.
 
user1804599
@Chimera Bullshit.
 
user1804599
If you want something that is simple you should use Clojure, Erlang or Go.
 
user1804599
The latter is cumbersome for many applications.
 
9:24 AM
@FredOverflow Hundreds of lines of C code. :-)
 
@Chimera And you have to manually apply them far more often, with far more resulting mistakes. The C++ compiler can automatically generate far more reliable code for you.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow char* name = NULL; getline(&name, NULL, stdin); free(name);
 
However, there is a C getline library... that would make the equivalent code not so terrible..
 
Is it standard?
 
user1804599
> Both getline() and getdelim() were originally GNU extensions. They were standardized in POSIX.1-2008.
 
9:26 AM
@FredOverflow I don't believe so....
 
user1804599
Yes, they’re standard.
 
POSIX != C
 
user1804599
So? They’re still standard.
 
user1804599
Just not standard C, but that wasn’t the question.
 
9:27 AM
when discussing Standard in the context of C, then Standard means C Standard.
it does not mean some other arbitrary Standard.
 
user1804599
“Standard,” not “standard.”
 
gotta love rightfold for his pedantry :)
 
Ok I knew it was foolish to attempt to compare C to C++ here.
 
user1804599
Let’s see how I want my UI.
 
I have nothing against C, I just don't like it when people divide C by C++ ;)
 
user1804599
9:29 AM
Cool.
 
user1804599
If you use Java in IntelliJ 14 and you pass a Boolean, then the editor shows it as parameterName: true instead of true.
 
Yes, it many ways C++ and it's libraries and STL makes tasks easier to code up. However, I still believe C is powerful and it IS a simpler language in terms of it's language specification and features... hope that makes sense.
 
Xeo
Bools suck as parameters :/
 
that doesn't make actually using the language simpler.
 
user1804599
@Xeo Indeed, but there are existent terrible APIs.
 
9:30 AM
Brainfuck would be the simpler language, but we all know that actually applying Brainfuck to build something would not be simpler at all.
 
Xeo
What's wanted is something "bool-like" but with different names
 
@Puppy No it makes understanding it simpler.
 
@Chimera In that sense, RISC assembly languages are very simple.
 
Xeo
so that it's clear what you're passing
 
user1804599
@Xeo enum!
 
9:31 AM
@Chimera Which is worthless, because your understanding cannot protect you from doing it wrong, repeatedly.
 
Xeo
@rightfold ye, but OTOH it's annoying to always define one, when it's only needed for that function
 
@FredOverflow Agreed. I also enjoy PIC assembly... for the same reason.
 
user1804599
Although if named arguments (e.g. C#, Python, Scala) are there (AS THEY SHOULD BE), I don’t have problems with Boolean parameters.
 
@Chimera Of course C has a simpler specification, it's just an assembly prettifier!
 
@Chimera If you like that kind of simplicity, C++ is the wrong language for you.
 
Xeo
9:31 AM
It would need to be a kinda attribute thingy for the function, where you inject special names that are available as parameters or something
 
user1804599
void f(x: enum(foo, bar));
 
Xeo
[Flags = {keep, drop}]
f(Flags f){ ... }
something like that
 
@FredOverflow I'm capable of doing both..
 
Xeo
@rightfold yeah, then it works again
 
understanding C does not mean that you can write generic code, it doesn't mean you don't have to manually free your resources, and it doesn't mean that you won't overflow your buffers.
 
user1804599
9:33 AM
Named arguments have other advantages as well.
 
understanding it has very low value.
 
@FredOverflow I think knowing the low level and the high level makes me a more well rounded developer.
 
Xeo
If C++ had designated initialisers, you could use those to fake named arguments
f({ .bla = x, .blub = y});
 
user1804599
Designated initialisers are a language extension I don’t mind using.
 
On a scale of 1 to 10, how high level is C++? :)
 
user1804599
9:34 AM
Off-scale.
 
Xeo
> scala
aww
 
pun?
 
user1804599
I’m going to eat a bun.
 
@FredOverflow i
 
@Puppy Of course. But when you've written C for over 20 years you learn to mostly avoid those pitfalls... Just as I'm sure is true when someone has a vast amount of C++ experience...
 
Xeo
9:34 AM
@CatPlusPlus Different dimension?
 
It's imaginary high-level
 
@FredOverflow What's 1 and 10?
 
1 is C and 10 is also C
 
@FredOverflow Doesn't it depend on what features of it you use?
 
user1804599
No.
 
9:36 AM
@sarat I don't know... 1 is assembly language, and 10 is Haskell.
 
user1804599
C++ is C++ no matter which features you use.
 
@CatPlusPlus 110 C++
 
@sarat It's 1 and 2.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow I know languages that are higher-level than Haskell is.
 
@rightfold Fine, then those languages can have 11 or more points.
 
user1804599
9:36 AM
sed :D
 
user1804599
Or CSS!
 
@FredOverflow Thought 1 for binary :D
 
lol
 
Hi guys
This question looks a bit messed up IMHO:
(needs 20k)
 
user1804599
I’m consuming like a consumer.
 
9:37 AM
@rightfold Throw out STL and C++ is fairly low level... Add in STL and it becomes higher level.... ????
 
user1804599
Don’t throw out STL. He’s a cool guy.
 
lol
 
@Chimera You can't avoid them, they are endemic to the language. There is no way to throw out the fact that you have to manually clean up every resource.
 
Woot! Banished finished installing.
 
@rubenvb 404!
 
9:38 AM
your argument is like saying, "Solve 3SAT in P time" is super simple because the specification of the problem is super simple.
it is, but that doesn't make actually doing it any easier.
 
@sarat yeah, you don't have 20k ;^)
 
@Puppy Eew computer science :)
 
@rightfold I'm imagining when you will want to show your smarty blog posts to a future employer and will direct him/her to rightfold.sexy.
 
Xeo
@Chimera lol no
 
Ok, well I know nothing then.
 
9:40 AM
It's also too long to screenshot (or my screen is too tiny)
 
@rubenvb meh! "removed" means 20K ? :D
 
Xeo
Even without the stdlib, C++ still has templates, exceptions, classes, inheritence, virtuality, etc
 
@sarat wut?
 
the stdlib is merely an effective expression of some of the higher features.
C++ the language is as high or low level as it is with or without the stdlib.
 
9:40 AM
It seems like you guys are going out of your way to misunderstand the points I'm trying to make.
 
except possibly those parts that are basically just language features, like std::type_info.
 
@Chimera non-owning raw points?
 
Some stupid Russian dude entered his university credentials in some buy-a-wife site and now the uni is being spammed by russian buy a wife scam spam
 
@Chimera Maybe your points suck? :P
 
@Jefffrey Well if they diverge from the collective wisdom here, of course they suck.
 
9:41 AM
@Chimera I'm fairly certain that I understand your point. It's just meaningless when actually attempting to program in C.
 
If it was any other way this room would lose it's charm.
 
Xeo
@rightfold: For some reason, g++ doesn't allow designated initializers even with GNU extensions turned on :(
 
@Chimera "its charm" (we're also very pedantic)
 
@FredOverflow lol
 
@Xeo It's a C language feature, not a C++ language extension, AFAIK.
G++ isn't obliged to implement every C language feature that isn't in C++ as a language extension
 
Xeo
9:45 AM
yeah, but some other C-only features are available with GNU extensions
Btw, does Wide have designated initialisers?
 
no.
 
Xeo
Will it have them at some point?
 
not sure.
named arguments are on my list of things to look at later.
 
Xeo
named arguments?
that's prolly good enough with constructors then
 
so far I've been thinking that what it would really boil down to is allowing tuple members to have names.
 
Xeo
9:48 AM
I don't think that's enough
or quite right
 
@FredOverflow Watching it now.
 
I don't get it why most people think Einstein is more of a genius than Issac Newton
 
@chmod711telkitty Because Einstein's theory subsumes Newton's theory.
 
Newton laid foundation to both classic physics and calculus. So if we compare Newton's contribution to growing two gigantic trees, Einsteins must be like growing a new small branch on one of those two trees ... despite that a lot other peoples discoveries were probably wrongly attributed to Issac
 
Because Einstein has cool hair.
And Newtonian classic physics is really a mess to use. Lagrange made it all better.
 
9:57 AM
Hello, I'm new to C++, but pretty good of C# and Java. Why is VS complaining about this declaration? bool isSame(int[] pFirst, int[] pSecond, int pLength) { error C2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'pFirst'
 
Also,
Jun 25 at 9:34, by thecoshman
Welcome to world of lazy! Here is your tour guide; please read it, front and back
 
@rubenvb ok thank you and sorry :)
 
@DatVM int pfirst[]
Also, std::vector<int> overloads operator==. No need to fiddle with pointers here ;)
 
@DatVM You won't get anywhere like that. Forget C# and Java and start fresh.
 
ergh, so nasty when you bite into a peach, to find it all woody and no where near ripe :(
 
10:11 AM
bananas are nasty that way too
 
10:25 AM
@Puppy this
@DatVM And use std::array or std::vector please.
 
@Jefffrey But then he doesn't need to write the function in the first place ;)
 
TIL: In FTL the enemy ships can run out of missiles too.
 
0
Q: why calling a recrusive function taking memory?

user3402923I'm working on a project that really needs memory management. thing is when I call a recursive function I see in task manager that a memory has been taken and after the recursive function ends the memory doesn't get freed. If you look the only things that effect the memory is the int q that must ...

> I'm working on a project that really needs memory management.
 
@Puppy ew, yeah, nasty
 
I also found that the easiest way you can level up your guy's skills is to find a weak enemy with weapons that can't breach your shields, then just let him whale on you for half an hour.
voila, l2 piloting, engines, and shields for those crewmembers.
 
10:40 AM
I used to that in asteroid fields
first one you find, just sit there until all yours guys are fully trained for shields
but I think they fixed that
 
Ell
10:52 AM
I'm gonna try building weston
 
@FredOverflow Just finished watching this. Enjoyed it greatly.
 
> I don’t think anyone ever noticed that all the units in Clash of Heroes pointed down. In the very least, there didn’t seem to be any complaints about the approach
now I noticed and it looks broken :\
can't unsee
 
11:11 AM
Scott Meyers is a great speaker. I can recommend all his other talks as well.
 
@FredOverflow Yes he is a great speaker. Can I find most of his talks with a simple google search?
 
I'd love to find a long talk where he teaches C++ That would be interesting.
@FredOverflow Oh perfect.
 
@Chimera You may also enjoy the STL lectures.
 
@FredOverflow Awesome! I appreciate the references. I will set aside a lot of time for them over the 4th of July vacation.
They are bookmarked now... :-)
 
11:16 AM
Talks are the best thing ever. It's like watching porn, but educational.
5
 
@FredOverflow Yep.
 
hello
 
Damn,.... I need to go to bed... it's 4:17Am here.
 
talks always seemed boring to me tbh
 
Hello @BartoszKP
Good night/morning all.
 
11:17 AM
good night
 
I find reading a lot more interesting, this includes transcripts and whatever, if any
 
@AlexM. I find lectures combined with reading and writing work for me.
 
the same applies to videos explaining things vs text and pictures
 
hmm
can't implicitly convert unordered_set<T> to unordered_set<U> if T is implicitly convertible to U?
 
lol, example from Python3 book: Circle inherits Point ;0
 
11:19 AM
@Puppy probably not
 
indeed, apparently not.
 
just use range constructor
@BartoszKP eew wat
 
@FredOverflow that's how they introduce classes and inheritance to the reader :v
 
terrible
 
when, few pages earlier they said explicitly that inheritance is only to model is-a relationships
 
11:21 AM
Well, a circle is a really huge point ;)
 
yeah, I imagine that could have been their idea : D
 
Yes. Yes, there is. Why even bother asking? Morons.
 
"traffic sound is very horny" :DD
4
 
"Please revert back"
 
Doing the needful.
 
11:24 AM
TIL about Nimbus. Beautiful :)
 
I just run away when I read "hello sir", always
3
 
"I have a doubt"
 
Xeo
@BartoszKP A circle with radius 0 is a point!
 
:U
 
> Using following code, I can able to get success in this doubt.
 
11:26 AM
@Xeo So should Point inherit from Circle(0)? ;)
 
Xeo
other way around
template<> class Circle<0> : Point{ ... }; !
 
the guy came to another chatroom once
and asked for some help
IIRC nobody was able to help him and when he heard that, he dropped this single word message
"shit"
for some reason I laughed so hard back then
 
@Xeo template<> class Circle<∞> : EuclideanSpace
 
http://bbc.in/Vvytc3 The Brits messed our motherland and we messed up their mother tongue :-) #IndianEnglish
 
11:45 AM
woops.
forgot to preserve access specifiers for constructors.
what the fuck.
why does boost::variant have a void operator==?
 
@AlexM. they also make Range Rover and Jaguar now... so yeah...
 
@Xeo what about a square of sides 0, that would be a point too, and thus a square of side 0 is the same as a circle of side 0, so a square is a circle!
 
12:04 PM
I think he gets that :v
 
hmm.
 
... people who know words and stuff (@R.MartinhoFernandes looking at you), what's a 'preposition'?
 
@thecoshman these small words that are next to nouns (like "to" in this sentence)
 
Ell
A preposition is like "on", "beneath", "after", "before" I think
relating two nouns to each other I think
@BartoszKP I think "next to" would be the preposition there
 
Xeo
^
 
12:08 PM
:|
I doubt that, following common definition of "preposition" in other languages, yet I'm not English expert
 
oh ok
 
Xeo
@BartoszKP That's a different use of "to"
I like this article btw: en.wikipedia.org/w/…
 
@Xeo oh yeah, right, ok. thanks
 
Xeo
The "tee" etc used there feel very much like Japanese particles
except that particles are not part of a word, but seperate words
 
@Xeo I read that as 'Japanese tentacles' :)
 
12:12 PM
:DDD
 
wait a cotton picking fucking second, are there really people who think AD (as in BC/AD) means 'after death'? Who are this fools?
 
After Dijkstra, Before Computers.
6
 
any way, time for a walk up to hardware store for paint rollers ¬_¬
 
Xeo
It's raining again :(
 
I'm rather impressed that I've managed to keep the same one going for so long, must have washed it an reused it over twenty times
 
Xeo
12:17 PM
Can't go to my glasses shop
 
@Xeo like hell it is or is going to stop me!
@Xeo opticians
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Are you living in NRW, Germany? No? Then it prolly doesn't apply to you
@thecoshman whatever they're called
 
it's fucking sunny here again
bitching weather can't even be cool in an English Summer.
 
Ell
It's not sunny for me
overcast
 
user1804599
Just bought MGS2 and MGS3 HD editions for PS3 since I’m too lazy to install my PS2 and have one of the disks repaired.
 
12:25 PM
Are you in a different country? Midlands is soggier than your swamp ATM.
BTW Bailey has been fed:)
 
lol
we're way in the south so it's probably different weather here
@rightfold If only there were decent PC versions of MGS2 and MGS3 (and MGS4/5) I'd probably buy.
 
user1804599
Meh, MGS on a PC.
 
user1804599
You’d need like, two mice.
 
user1804599
And three arms.
 
Haven't checked forecast yet. I tried, but my internets are a bit dodgy today and I keep getting 'cannot connect to server' and stuff.
I need to shop. Dog has destroyed yet another teacup by swiping it off the table with this tail. Also, I want a new pepper mill. The 'fasionable and attractive' plastic one that Anne bought looks good but does not actually grind peppercorns.
 
Ell
12:31 PM
> Once you start making slippery slope arguments, who knows where you'll end up?
11
 
user1804599
This download is slooooow.
 
Xeo
@rightfold Here's a pro-tip: there are controllers for PC too
 
user1804599
It’s like, 0.25MB/s.
 
@rightfold That's my usual download speed.
 
user1804599
lol
 
user406009
12:37 PM
@Ell That reminds me of a funny joke from r/philosophy.
 
user406009
> If you use a slippery slope argument to prove something, you'll be tempted to use another such argument to prove something else. Eventually you'll prove everything and it's opposite to be true which negates all reason.
Therefore, it's best not to make slippery slop arguments.
 
they're the same joke, except that one has a truly terrible delivery and Ell's doesn't.
 
12:49 PM
@Ell at the end of the slope
:P
 
user3010322
@Xeo it's begun :(
 
Xeo
?
 
user3010322
sol/function.hpp:99:107: error: decltype cannot resolve address of overloaded function
typedef typename function_traits<decltype(&clean_lambda::operator())>::free_function_pointer_type raw_func_t;
 
Xeo
hahahahaa
 
user3010322
function_traits... you fail me. ;~;
 
Xeo
12:56 PM
yeah, MSVC fucks your function_traits
because it has an overloaded operator() for some reason
 
user3010322
This isn't MSVC, it's gcc!!
 
Xeo
even if the lambda is monomorphic :D
oh lol
still
HAHAHAHA
fuck function_traits. crash and burn
 
user3010322
I'll make it work...!
 
user3010322
The magic must be preserved.
 
Xeo
19 secs ago, by Xeo
fuck function_traits. crash and burn
 
user3010322
12:57 PM
Hail magic.
 
user3010322
I'm not sure why this sin't working, though.
 
user3010322
It seems to explode when I use std::reference_wrapper. :c
 

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