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10:00 PM
yeah, but that couples the interface and the operation and they don't necessarily couple.
 
everyone opened their beers because it seems the guy whom everyone wanted was elected president
 
like, it would be perfectly sane to write a program that never calls this particular function that needs this operation, and in that program have a derived class that therefore doesn't have it.
 
I should do the same
 
Ell
@Puppy could do manual dynamic dispatch I suppose :S
 
well, ATM I managed to move part of it into the interface that does kinda make sense, and the rest, I'm just using a map<typeindex, function<blah>> and then registering the handlers for each derived type.
it kinda works except that now I can't guarantee at compiletime that for all types for which I have chosen to make this operation available, I have added the proper handler.
it could turn out that at runtime, I have a derived class where I forgot to add a handler.
 
Ell
10:08 PM
I guess you should just require specialization of a template function then?
 
@CatPlusPlus could just be a fluke, but seems factorio can't handle staying open whilst your computer suspends.
 
Dunno, I don't leave games open when suspending
 
why not? Should be sound, in theory.
 
games have to do something a bit different because I think both D3D and OGL make the user handle device loss, or something.
 
Ell
Not sure why it wouldn't work
 
10:19 PM
IOW low level graphics APIs are shit, who knew?
 
there's no reason why it should not work in theory but games have to do extra work to make it work, so it's no surprise that sometimes it doesn't work.
 
They can't not require the user to handle device loss, because that means having to reupload textures and shit
 
Ell
I don't really get boilers in factorio
 
yes, but so what? just keep a copy of the texture in RAM, that's what the users have to do anyway
 
What's there to get? They boil water :v
 
Ell
10:21 PM
But I need more than 1 for some reason :P
and the light on one of them is turned off
so maybe I don't need more than one
 
to boil more water, clearly.
 
1 boiler can handle 1 or 2 engines
Plus 1 as buffer is useful to have
 
Ell
ahh I ran out of science
 
Also it depends on how much power the network is consuming
 
Ell
Oh yeah I forgot about that
 
10:23 PM
I'm using this setup from the wiki now
 
guys. Finite automata. How do?
 
no.
 
you enjoy them, or they enjoy you
 
Ell
I'm using this setup
:P
 
@corvid steampunk style
 
10:24 PM
@corvid Boost.Statechart
 
Note that you can plug the boiler directly into the pump and the engine
I'm redoing my science automation now
I need a loop to not starve the labs
 
@CatPlusPlus what's the 'ideal' boiler:engine rataio do you know?
 
I don't get it, these things seem too simple for a regular language. So if I have a regular expression, and a language like {0,1}*, I can just draw two finite automata?
 
That wiki setup is supposedly optimal, but dunno when it was written and I haven't really bothered looking into the details yet
 
My map is surrounded buy aliens, so really having to work hard to keep pollution low whilst I build up the tech to laser them away. Those damn worms!
 
10:26 PM
So 7 boilers per 5 engines
 
Ell
I haven't been attacked yet
my setup is pretty bad atm
 
I'm playing on peaceful atm
 
Ell
I'm waiting until I get steel smelter to set up a smelting bit
 
Good luck making steel without smelting automation
 
It's my third play through, with default generation settings. Had to reload twice so far as I was too foolish getting up close to the aliens taking out nests
 
10:28 PM
There's no point attacking them until you need more advanced science packs
 
@CatPlusPlus good luck anything without automation
 
Automate everything
 
@CatPlusPlus take out the nests to stop them spawning. If they are in range of pollution, they attack. So best take them out under your control before they you agro them.
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus apart from wood :V
 
is there multiplayer?
 
10:29 PM
Whoops I placed one splitter badly and one of my smelters is not outputting anything
 
Ell
@LucDanton I think so
I saw a multiplayer forum so I assume so
 
Multiplayer is WIP
Unstable builds have working coop but dunno how well working
 
the alpha in late alpha presumably
 
Dammit I have to move everything
 
Ell
moving stuff is the worst
 
10:31 PM
I'm bad at planning
 
Ell
who isn;t?
 
Planners
 
Ell
*Planner
 
@LucDanton it's very far on
@CatPlusPlus the curse of new tech
 
@thecoshman point being you don’t add the multiplayer during the beta
 
10:35 PM
@LucDanton not really
v1 could be pure single player
v2 can be multi player
 
Whoop copper ore is running out
 
@CatPlusPlus o_0
how's that a thing?
 
right, and do in the non-beta stage of v2
 
Gotta switch deposits
 
Ell
man I don't know how to know what quantities of what stuff I'll need or want to make
 
10:36 PM
@thecoshman Deposits are limited, you can mine them out
 
I'm thinking I'll swap over to solar powered copper production, just whilst I try to curb my poluttion
 
Ell
what does polution do?
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, but copper is hardly used... well, maybe latter on
 
Attracts biters
 
@Ell cause agro
 
Ell
10:36 PM
Oh right
 
@CatPlusPlus pisses them rite off guvner!
 
Also evolves them if they have a spawner in range
 
as does killing them
 
If you press Alt you'll see pollution on minimap
 
which is why I don't like having a set of turrets keeping two nests at bay.
 
10:37 PM
@thecoshman All electronics need copper
 
Sadly, both within pollution, but protected by worms.
@CatPlusPlus ah yes
 
Ell
ohhh that's what that is
 
currently just working up towards laser turrets so I can take out worms
 
Science pack 2 needs steady supply of inserters
 
Ell
I have no idea how to set a factory out at all
how do I supply inserters while having enough plates :L
too hard
 
10:39 PM
You'll have enough plates if you have enough smelters
Automate smelting dammit
Automate everything
 
Ell
I'm tryiinnng
 
Science pack 1 also needs copper
Everything needs copper
btw build a radar to slowly uncover the map automatically and track biters in range
I forgot to upgrade some of my assembling machines
Also wtb electric furnaces already
 
Ell
I forgot why I made this
 
Ell
oh it's coal storage :L
just regular storage
a buffer I guess
idk
I need a load of science for higher poles now
 
10:46 PM
Bigger poles need steel
 
Ell
wait a second. I thought I could power steel furnaces with electricy :L
ah well :P
 
Nope, electric furnaces are later
 
this is reminding me of KSP.
as in, Lounge gets a new game kind of thing.
it's just a pity that KSP ends so abruptly.
 
oh boy. I just spent ~4 hours on the telephone with my mom. She hit a snag with her accountancy software. She complained about not being able to print invoices anymore. During the repro steps she found out that "now I can't even add an invoice anymore". Indeed, the form would get stuck/frozen and the application had to be killed using the task-manager.
Anyone want to guess how I resolved it?
 
You turned it off and on again?
 
10:55 PM
Nah.
(This is in the category where software is horribly broken and people usually just buy a new computer to fix it)
Anyone else?
 
In python, there is an os.path.expanduser(), does anything like that exist in C++?
 
user1646075
@sehe more core?
 
Ell
@sehe restore from backup? :S
 
I need more green science
 
user1646075
plugged the printer in?
 
10:58 PM
@Ell Good idea. So after restoring increasingly old backups, we found that there was nothing in the particular books (db) that triggered it (because the problem existed even with old data)
Anyone else?
@aclarke Meh, I already said it wasn't in the "mom's broken" category :)
 
user1646075
heh
 
rename stuff
 
user1646075
so - change of hardware fixes it? hmmmmm usually means bigger faster more flashing lights
 
Show me the hang backtrace maybe :v
 
the suspense is killing me
just say how you fixed it already :)
 
11:00 PM
Okay, to end the misery: I reinstalled a fresh copy of everything (that is, without all the customizations and updates), to verify that, "HEY!" it worked then (after restoring the most reecent books of a random administration into it).
 
Ell
fresh reinstalling stuff is annoying
 
I just installed Windows 10 :0 it's good
 
So, I ventured to find out -what the hell- was the difference. So, in that installation (which was a ~fresh copy of windows, in that it used a clean registry hive), I copied back all the bits of the software (including all the administrations and customizations). Lo and behold, stuff kept on working.
 
inb4 UB
 
user1646075
11:02 PM
in b4 windows update
 
So, finally figured out that this particular software product stored the positions and sizes of all forms/popup controls in the registry. I manually deleted all the saved positions, and - zing - everything back to normal
 
user1646075
dayyum
 
@sehe omg that's horrible.
 
So, nothing was actually "stuck". It was just displaying modal shit off-screen (or with zero size, who knows)
 
Ell
Hmm I can't see what determines which side of a belt the inserter will choose
 
user1646075
11:02 PM
new smaller screen? how'd it get screwed?
 
3 hours ago, by exitc0de
If you all hate C++ and use it for software development, wouldn't Rust be a better language? (if there were more tools)
 
Ell
@sehe oh my gosh
 
4 hours of increasingly tense problem analysis (oh fuck, data's gone? problem introduced months ago?!?!) resolved in a patch of ~170 lines removed
 
You guys really can't get tired of this guy apparently.
 
Ell
That is some sherlock holmes debugging
 
11:03 PM
@Jefffrey I'm tired of him, but I can't really kick him because I'm tired of him
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey helps to keep the claws sharp
 
@aclarke That's the kicker. No updates to OS, wine, monitor, graphics card or driver.
 
Every time he comes in here he tries to say that language X is better than language Y. Often times Y = C++.
 
user1646075
@sehe laptop? did she plug into a larger 2nd screen for a while?
 
Apparently this software (either WinE or TurboCash (yes, swell name)) just stored implementation-specific values in those registry settings. Somewhere along the way /something/ (God knows what) changed those implementation details.
 
11:05 PM
@TonyTheLion I just see that you keep feeding him, for some reasons.
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey he's got a point...
 
@aclarke Not a chance. Just a desktop. She's really conservative.
 
user1646075
The pointy one on the top of his head.
 
@Jefffrey there is also the entertainment value in it.
 
I thought "Don't feed the trolls" was in the Internet constitution or something.
 
user1646075
11:05 PM
@sehe worth filing a bug report? that's really sucky
 
I can feed the trolls if I want to
 
ok then
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey Who trolls on the trolls when the trolls are trolling on us?
 
@aclarke Nobody, because trolling is silly.
 
@Jefffrey also he isn't the worst of trolls
 
user1646075
11:06 PM
only an old aussie fart will get that reference.
 
@aclarke The problem is that I don't really care to find out who to blame. I don't think Wine is to blame (last update was august 8). So it's probably down to different window manager (version) (configuration).
 
he just sounds like he's really new to programming
 
user1646075
yeah, he seems bearable, in that he appears to be a trainable.
 
and we can't condemn all people new to programming to the troll status, because that's just not really fair
 
@TonyTheLion you mean, an unforgivable prick?
 
Ell
11:07 PM
I hope you can get automated builders in this game :P
 
@TonyTheLion lol
 
user1646075
@sehe well, primarily to get it fixed so you don't go through that shit again. Although you know what to fix, even her time lost is a pain
 
I want automated boulders
 
am I being too nice?
 
@Ell Assembling machines (also crucial for science)
I need to plan for more space because jesus I can't fit anything anywhere
 
user1646075
11:08 PM
@TonyTheLion for here, or in general?
 
for here
 
@aclarke Yeah. I love this new trick. I can :g#\cosfinancials/form/#norm dV} and vavoom! gone
cough.
 
user1646075
he sounds like a young smart-ass who thinks he knows everything despite no experience, and he's not the first one the lounge has suffered even in my short time here. Unlike others, he does seem to listen.
 
I advised my mom to just solve her own IT troubles next time, like everyone else. I mean, this wasn't really too hard
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus Sorry, I meant building as in placing factory units
well. I guess I want some kind of stamp tool
 
user1646075
11:10 PM
@sehe hahah
 
There's ghost building but dunno how to use it yet
Also I've seen construction robots in the tech tree
 
user1646075
She gave birth to you, and you don't want to help her? For shame
 
I helped my dad today with some computer issues
 
@aclarke It was a good session. She only calls maybe twice a year these days, so I know something is up when she does. She even rated this at "not very urgent" and waited almost a week for my callback.
@TonyTheLion Oops. I helped my dad with some life issues. I think. That was funky
 
user1646075
ooof. For her accounts? personal or business?
 
11:11 PM
@aclarke Yeah, he listen so much that every other day he comes back here and repeats the exact same questions.
 
@aclarke Both. Actually, no this was just business. But she runs her own business on the same software, partially
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus awesome
 
@Jefffrey We're a slot machine/jukebox
 
user1646075
11:11 PM
@Jefffrey hmmm - haven't picked up on that.
 
Ell
I'm way off that stage though, but good to know I can look forward to it
 
I'm starting railway research
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus 50 reps to whoever makes a comet lander first.
 
Or maybe modules first
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm thinking I'll work towards having smart inserters take from a belt on one side, process it in some way, then spt onto a belt on the other. Then chuck all the stuff back round to the feeding belt for others to pick up. Some things though are best on their own belts though. Like metals
probably best to try get one side of a belt per thing
@CatPlusPlus they look good
reduce power usage, increase performance, all good stuff
 
Ell
11:14 PM
i.imgur.com/LwZIT3H.png
 
fail :)
 
Ell
^there we go, automated smelting
oh man.
 
 
Ell
although it only does plates
 
11:15 PM
If you don't care about putting stuff on both lanes of the belt, you don't need that top row of inserters
Oh wait that's input too
 
Ell
yeah the top belt is fuel, bottom belt is ore
it was just coincidence that they have split copper & iron half and half
they've mixed now
not sure what to do with the output atm though
guess I should smelt some of it
 
@aclarke It seems like every time he talks about Rust vs C++.
 
@sehe looks like hieroglyphics
 
Are you guys playing the demo or the beta?
 
@LucDanton agreed, ask @Ell wth it means
 
11:17 PM
Demo is rather short
And doesn't have much of the cool stuff
 
Ell
@Jefffrey the alpha ;)
 
> Having a German president, might actually help this poor Balkan nation to form some sort of political alliances with Europe’s mightiest economical power: Germany.
uh, other people sure have a bad opinion about Romania
 
Ell
it's even timed nicely
 
Xeo
... in SFML, the right joystick on an XBOX 360 controller has the axes U and R ...
 
user1646075
@AlexM. the 20th century history is the tragedy. Will take time to turn opinions around.
 
user1646075
11:20 PM
hey, at least the french are gone
 
also the president isn't German
a claim which only serves to make it look like the country could only be saved by an outsider
German origins != German citizen
 
> other people
 
@sehe well I'm reading external news wrt our elections
 
user1646075
hmm, a romanian guy i worked with a few years ago said there was french control for a while? but wiki isn't mentioning much i can see in a quick scan. Is that correct?
 
> Romania has finally come to its senses and elected Klaus Werner Iohannis as president, the current mayor of former cultural capital of Europe, Sibiu, which is of German descent.
 
11:22 PM
@AlexM. ok
 
finally come to its senses lol
@aclarke I don't think so, no
we've had Romans here
Hungarians/Austro-Hungarians
Germans
Russians probably, dunno
Turks
 
Did Napoleon go around?
 
but no French
 
user1646075
hmmmm - /so forgetful of details.
 
I made ##loungecpp-factorio on Freenode so people don't whine about too much game stuff
 
shit, this news piece thinks worse of Romania than the average Romanian citizen thinks of it lol
and I thought it was impossible to think worse of it than that
 
I don't think much of any nation
 
the problem is, others do
 
let them waste their time thinking nothing
 
and if you end up among them, it's going to be hard to take that label off yourself
 
Ell
11:33 PM
oh man. copper can't be smelted
I'm gonna have to make some kinda sorting thing now
I'll use smart thingies
 
don't really care.
 
Xeo
alright, time for sleeps
g'night
 
lol I can't even start the game
it crashes immediately
Oh, I don't have enough vram
 

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