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7:00 PM
Is it just the same as regular boost::any except with concept checking?
 
Xeo
@Puppy Yeah, he had fnv1a as an example
@Rapptz Magic
(not really, just a bunch of bases with appropriate virtual functions, IIRC)
 
Can’t be done with bases.
 
it sounds useful to have a polymorphic type based on concepts
a bit too useful :<
 
I use tuples of function pointers, and I know I took a look at the impl but I can’t quite remember if that is exactly what I saw. OTOH I can’t think of any other way it can be done.
 
hmm
types don't know # and I actually do something kinda different since I operate on the hashes of the types instead of their raw values directly.
 
7:01 PM
To understand Boost.TypeErasure I suggest splitting the magic that allows writing new interface, from the mechanics that allows coercion.
 
I'll worry about Boost.TypeErasure later I suppose.
 
Ell
I haven't looked at boost.typeerasure before
 
@JerryCoffin Oh, that would be a different issue, if you get me.
 
honestly I'm just writing some helpers to simplify hashing, I'm not looking to instamagichash everything or rebuild the Standard hashing interfaces.
 
I need to deal with this SDL 2 bullshit first
 
Xeo
7:02 PM
@Puppy Yeah, and his whole point was to get rid of hash_combine actually
 
I think I'll settle with my current crap except maybe swap 31 with that fnv1a prime.
 
@Xeo There are bases involved when you define an interface/concept thingy, but that’s CRTP style tricks for purposes of TMP.
 
wowowo
I have more upvotes than dons
 
I personally managed to migrate some projects from SDL 1 to SDL 2. But I never really went that far with SDL_Renderer and SDL_Texture.
 
The entire meat of SDL 2 is SDL_Renderer and SDL_Texture lol
 
7:04 PM
f = ((uncurry (***) .) .) . (***)
lol wat
 
I don't think they're a bad idea. I just don't like how stupidly tightly coupled it is.
 
user1804599
You Wouldn't Join Lounge<C++>
 
You can't make an SDL_Texture without an SDL_Renderer and you can't make that without an SDL_Window.
It's just a mess.
I hate it.
 
Ell
Is boost type erasure what @AndyProwl wants in the language? "Virtual concepts"?
 
@Ell Boost.TE is a library solution, I want language support
 
7:06 PM
@E_net4 I guess nobody appreciates my word games today.
 
You can make an SDL_Surface out of thin air if you want.
 
too bad I have zero time to work on it right now
 
Why can't you make an SDL_Texture out of thin air?
 
Ell
@AndyProwl yeah
 
@Rapptz It requires air thick enough to have texture, of course.
 
Ell
7:07 PM
They should add SDL_Bitmap
 
That's SDL_Surface.
 
whew
thank god a low quality hash just gives bad performance.
 
Ell
Well how would you make a texture without a renderer? O.O
 
Xeo
Wait, what's the difference between SDL_Surface and SDL_Texture?
 
7:08 PM
SDL_Surface is pretty much representation of pixel data in RAM, SDL_Texture is in VRAM and is driver-specific.
 
Xeo
aha
 
it's illegal to specialize std::hash for std::vector, right?
 
@Rapptz: Wasn't it you just recently talking about hating it when people answer shitty questions? Hate away.
 
Ell
So it makes sense to only be able to make a texture with a renderer
 
Is a 144Hz monitor even worth investing in? I found a really cheap one on Amazon.
 
7:10 PM
@Ell How?
 
@Nooble no.
 
@Puppy Right, if it’s generic std::vector<T, A> with no UD type involved.
 
Ell
@rapptz because its driver specific like you said, and a renderer does the driver specific stuff
 
@LucDanton I actually think that it's std::vector<T> where T eventually involves a UDT (e.g. std::pair<UDT*, UDT*>)
 
user1804599
@Ell don't make renderer responsible for all driver-specific stuff, only for rendering.
 
7:11 PM
'Right' as in 'right, it’s illegal'.
 
user1804599
Problem solved!
 
@Puppy Some people are saying that once you go 144Hz, you can't go back. Especially since my GPU already has the horsepower to deliver upwards of 100 FPS.
 
Ell
Rendering is inherently driver specific :P
 
some people are morons.
 
Besides, it's $159.99
 
7:12 PM
like you, so go ahead and buy
 
Ell
You can't make an opengl texture without an opwngl context
And probably the same for directx
 
yep.
 
I'm aware of that.
 
user1804599
Then make Context or something that allows you to create textures and stuff.
 
user1804599
Not Renderer.
 
7:12 PM
and different drivers/rendering API versions/hardware supports different texture types.
 
I posit that defining a generic spec and leaving it to only be instantiated with UD-types is at best not allowed, at worst a grey area (leaning towards possible defect).
 
@Puppy No! Next you're going to claim there's a strong possibility of the sun rising in the morning.
 
user1804599
And certainly not require creating a window. That's just retarded.
 
But SDL_Renderer is a bit retarded.
 
@JerryCoffin Well, it has done for the last four and a half billion * 365 days.
 
7:13 PM
@Puppy How is buying a superior monitor moronic?
 
You need an SDL_Window to create an SDL_Renderer.
Once you make that SDL_Renderer, the window becomes kind of useless.
I just don't like it
 
@Nooble Because it could well be superior in a way that the human eye is incapable of perceiving, for example.
or technically "superior" but in a way your other hardware can't use, like those GPUs sold for twice the price because they have twice the VRAM.
 
I actually made SDL2 programs without SDL_Renderer. So yeah...
 
when looking at supposedly superior hardware, you have to be hardcore skeptic as to whether it will actually make a difference.
micro-optimizing your code gives "superior" performance but it's still a total waste of time.
 
@E_net4 You're missing the entire point of SDL 2 though.
 
7:15 PM
@Puppy What nonsense. Everybody knows God created the earth 6,000 years ago.
 
@Rapptz I'm not missing it, I just chose not to rely on the main point.
 
Terrible :(
 
I either had full software rendering or direct use of an OpenGL context.
 
Ell
@Rapptz I agree that a renderer shouldn't require a window, but its pragmatism really
 
some renderers like D3D can require a window.
 
7:16 PM
stupid D3D
:v
 
Ell
Opengl does. Well. Glx does
 
meh
 
Ell
Opengl itsself doesn't
 
their API actually works with the windowing system in a useful way.
 
@Puppy I've seen a 144Hz monitor, it makes a reasonable difference over 60Hz, just like there is a huge difference from 30Hz to 60Hz. Besides that, my hardware can already handle most games above 100, I might as well reap the benefits. On top of this, I need a new monitor because my old one has severe backlight issues.
 
7:17 PM
After creating the renderer the only thing the window is useful for is doing window specific things
like fullscreen.. I guess
getting size
stuff like that
 
Ell
Makes sense
 
yeah
 
user1804599
What if you don't want to do anything with a window?
 
user1804599
Like rendering to some file.
 
you have to keep it alive
as long as the SDL_Renderer is alive
 
7:18 PM
Curious point.
 
which handles the (you guessed it) rendering
 
user1804599
But it doesn't have to be visible I hope?
 
it has to be visible
 
@Ell OpenGL smart. X stoopid.
 
the window is required for rendering
 
user1804599
7:18 PM
AHHAHAHAHAHA what a terrible piece of shit
 
it renders to the window
I don't know where else it would render to honestly
 
user1804599
Eh, an in-memory bitmap?
 
that's an SDL_Surface
 
user1804599
But I cannot render to it without having a window open.
 
you can do whatever you want with an SDL_Surface
 
7:19 PM
We can hide the window. Does that make the renderer not work at all?
 
user1804599
1 min ago, by Rapptz
it has to be visible
 
@E_net4 The renderer only works if the window is visible, it just stops rendering if you hide the window
 
hmm
 
Ell
It is a bad design I agree
I'm not sure how easy it is to get d3d to render without a window
 
Sure, that's bad design.
 
Ell
7:21 PM
It's pragmatism though
99% of people will be rendering at least to a window
 
user1804599
Reminds me of Ruby on Rails.
 
you can create an SDL_Renderer through an SDL_Surface I think
but that's not a hardware renderer, it's a software one (i.e. it loses the entire point)
 
user1804599
Inherent bad design just to make creating a project (you know, that thing you do only once) take five minutes less.
 
user1804599
Or to make the tutorial one paragraph shorter.
 
I looked at how SFML does it and they have a global context
not sure if that's better or worse
 
7:23 PM
worse
 
lol I guess so
 
might go all out with the "Types don't know #" thing.
 
@rightføld Both of you back to neutral corners. You: one point deduction for a low blow!
 
I guess I'll suck it up
and just do the coupling in my wrapper too
:<
I can't think of anything clever
 
struct i_need_this { window_type window; renderer_type renderer; }; kind of deal? Don’t think you need clever for this.
 
Ell
7:28 PM
Ideally you should just be able to instantiate a renderer and tell it to target a window
 
Yeah I keep the window and renderer together
 
D2D can do that.
 
I'm just unsure how to handle texture creation.
 
Anyone know Rust?
 
No.
There's a Rust chat.
 
7:29 PM
Which is inactive
I tried
 
user1804599
Try #rust.
 
Well, what a pity.
 
oh well, that’s it then
 
lol
yeah the only way to make a hardware accelerated renderer is through the window
 
@Rapptz SDL_CreateProgramThatDoesWhatYouWantNotWhatIWant.
 
7:30 PM
I'm not sure if there's a case for having more than one renderer without two windows
 
picture in picture!
 
:p
 
Also, cameras.
 
That's built-in to the renderer
Sort of anyway.
SDL_RenderGetViewport
While I'm soapboxing, I should say that SDL is very poorly documented. I'm not sure how anyone can use this when most of the functions have absolutely no documentation, e.g.: wiki.libsdl.org/SDL_RenderGetClipRect and despite it being a 'wiki', there is no anonymous editing and the only way to register on the wiki is to email them and hope they make you an account.
 
Ell
@Rapptz meh, seems p obvious what to do to me :P
 
7:35 PM
I suppose that would be clear enough if I knew exactly what a clip rectangle was.
 
Ell
but yeah
it not being a real wiki sucks
this is why we need someone to write a documentation server wiki server thing
@Rapptz were you writing a documentation tool or was it my imagination?
 
@Ell Not the point!
99% of the functions look like that.
 
Ell
@Rapptz fair enough :P
 
No documentation. Just a name and its parameters.
 
@Rapptz Seems to be a typical response to producing "documentation" with things like Doxygen--people glance at it, say: "Oh look, it's produce hundreds of kilobytes of documentation. I clearly don't need to add anything more", while ignoring the fact that the documentation they've produced is utterly worthless.
 
7:39 PM
Yup.
I might end up having better docs than SDL.
Not that it's hard to do that.
 
Ell
I was writing a doc thing and I'm halfway done writing the database schema
but I figure it's probably better suited for a document oriented database right?
I should look into those things
 
I settle with Sphinx atm.
 
@thecoshman imo it is
@Ell Maybe, if the documents are fairly self-contained
 
evening
 
7:48 PM
hi
 
Ell
@Rapptz this is full of wat
 
which part?
 
Ell
> this guy basically worked to guarantee your children a future
 
lol yeah
There are a lot of weird things in it
but I legitimately feel sorry for the guy
 
Ell
also idk, the video is just kind of weird and uncomfortable to watch :P
 
7:50 PM
The story blew up and made me pretty angry tbh
 
Ell
she sounds on the verge of tears
 
you mean he?
 
Ell
@Rapptz yeah it is appalling
 
@CatPlusPlus so addictive :P
 
Ell
@Rapptz the person talking is a guy?
@thecoshman yup, worth it
 
7:51 PM
@Ell the scientist with the shirt cried and apologized for wearing it AFAIK
 
Oh wrong video.
I thought you meant the one with Dr. Taylor.
 
Ell
oh yeah sorry
 
The guy actually cried lol
Really upset me tbh
 
user1646075
@Ell problem is, he's got no practice defending his funnies. When people get offended, you need to go hard-core on your defence. That takes experience, from years of offending people with no sense of humour.
 
user1646075
something keeps making my phone alarms drift back an hour at a time, so I woke up one hour too early. I am going to be rooted tonight, and not in a good way. I'm narrowing it down to swapping the sim out to another phone. needs proving.
 
7:54 PM
if you google the guy's name all you get are a bunch of shitty articles about his shirt rather than his achievement.
Imagine working 10 years to achieve something and people ruin it because of a fucking shirt.
 
Ell
@Rapptz It probably hasn't been ruined I don't think
 
user1646075
let's start a campaign of support. Where can I email a congrats and words of support. Also where can I buy that shirt.
 
Ell
although if he cried then maybe o.O
 
user1646075
he'll get over it. probably.
 
@Rapptz what bothers me even more is for the last few days ive seen more posts about kim kardashian's ass than his achievement. :(
 
7:56 PM
We should welcome him in the ranks of people who loathe people
 
user1804599
SCHEISSARBEIT
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus heh definitely.
 
10 mins ago, by Rapptz
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/matt-taylor-rosetta-project-scientist
 
user1646075
geez i should check links. That's back to the same fucking page.
 
7:57 PM
I don't like that campaign btw
a bit too weird for me
although I'd love to give the guy some support
 
user1646075
i'm trying to find an email address for something. If I find one within my attention span, I'll say congrats on the comet thing, and where can I buy that shirt?
 

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