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Ell
11:05 AM
@sehe >get's his rocks off
> penis shaped sound wave
> I feel more suggestible and that was just from one sniff
I only realised it was a joke when he said lets put a bomb under pantu's chin
 
11:20 AM
Oh hi Becky who refused to kiss me during spin the bottle in 6th grade & now wants to play FarmVille, looks like tables have fucking turned
 
lol
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol, I was just reading a childhood rage thread and this one is great
 
It's paragraphs like this that finally make me realise how fucking cool it is that we have a presence at Mars. It's like... humanity now reaches that far. It's fucking cool.
 
meh
contact with aliens would be even cooler
 
11:23 AM
like "You can see the comet from Asia, Australia, and from the Martian colonies"
@rightføld No, but it's a decent thing to do to let them know that they have a problem.
You shouldn't need to have signed a contract in order to be a decent person.
2
 
I wonder how aliens would be like
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yeah it's awesome
 
would they be built like us, or could there be a world somewhere else where there are things that achieve similar results to the things here, but are completely different (e.g. chemical stuff)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "spider" is not a verb in English.
 
Xeo
@AlexM. Alien, prolly.
 
11:27 AM
jesus this is so exciting, imagine making contact with forms of life that can't be linked to any of our sciences
 
Xeo
It'd be more exciting if they could be linked.
 
but then they wouldn't be something 100% new
 
Xeo
So?
 
it's more exciting if you find out there's something out there that basically requires you to discover (or learn) at least as much as you have discovered about your own world
 
@AlexM. this may be of interest to you, for example
8
Q: Is it possible for life to evolve on planets without water?

Vincent*By life, I mean something more complex than microorganisms. Something closer to what we have on Earth. similar to this question: Is it possible for life to evolve on planets without oxygen? For example: It is said that Titan is well outside the habitable life zone but we make the assumption...

Complex life does generally rely on the properties of a few specific chemicals. It would be quite difficult for life to evolve without water, for example. Sulphur is a valid substitute for carbon, but there aren't many other options there.
@AlexM. yeah
 
11:32 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yup, which is why I was leaning towards places where those chemicals don't exist, and are replaced with something completely new to us
like, we say that without those chemicals complex life can't exist, but then we find out that somewhere else there are other chemicals that sustain it
and are different from what we know
 
Sure, if we include currently unknown chemicals.
Or a whole new system of molecular interaction
 
we can include anything we don't know, yeah :P
 
Such a thing would ruin our understanding of our own chemical nature, though, rather than simply adding a new, alternative mechanism to the textbooks
 
I wonder if I'll be able to see an alien before I die
 
@AlexM. come to the unconference
 
11:34 AM
lol
 
@FredOverflow Er, in which language is it a verb?
 
Ell
English.
I spidered around the guards and stuff
:P
> move in a scuttling manner suggestive of a spider.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "spider" means "Spinne", and "Ich spinne" means "I'm crazy", where "spinnen" is a verb that has no satisfying translation AFAICT.
 
But "Spinne" is not a verb in German.
 
Xeo
Sure. But that's not what the "Ich glaub ich spinne" is using
It's the (colloquial) verb "spinnen"
 
11:41 AM
I know.
I just don't understand the relevance of '"spider" is not a verb in English'.
 
"I think I spider" is not valid English.
 
Xeo
erm
that's the whole point
2 hours ago, by Xeo
user image
 
Yes, but that's the only case where a noun is used as a verb.
 
user1804599
lol again what learned.
 
11:43 AM
1 hour ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
"I think I spider" is not such a bad translation, actually.
Seems pretty relevant, to me.
@Xeo Right so what are these?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit thx
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit German phrases in English.
 
@Xeo Why did they do that?
 
Xeo
Sigh
 
It's funny.
 
11:44 AM
because it's phun 2 do
 
Okay
Only asking no need to sigh :(
 
"That makes you so fast nobody after" is my favourite :-D
 
Could have been a bunch of mistranslations for various reasons, or deliberately done, or....
 
Ell
@Xeo Oh I thought they were some kind of sexual innuendo thing
 
That's incidental.
 
Xeo
11:46 AM
I think you can count "you can me once" as that, if you want.
 
@Ell You mean like this?
 
Xeo
Oh, and obviously "how horny is that then"
 
"Only the hard come in the garden" made me think that, too
 
user1804599
lol womb raider
 
I wondered whether it was some sort of Amsterdam red light district display
 
Ell
11:46 AM
Edward Penis hands, come on :L
 
> how you me, so I you
 
@Ell Brooker's favourite film
 
@Xeo "then" does not mean "denn", though
 
Ell
@rightføld that doesn't sound appealing at all :P
 
user1804599
neither does tomb raider
 
11:48 AM
freddy, I wonder what you read before you go & teach those young girls ...
 
In positive news, coliru\.com now redirects to google. /cc @sahazel
/cc @StackedCrooked
 
@chmod711telkitty Only teaching boys atm
 
@FredOverflow There's a reason those were not translated by Germans.
 
how many people are you teaching?
 
@sehe to a Google 404, naming the root URL, oddly
 
11:49 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's a simple DNS pointer
 
@sehe Right, so the Host doesn't match. Still, though, 404.
 
@chmod711telkitty At the moment? 2. Next week? 600.
 
They reproduce like rabbits.
 
I guess it's semantically sound (coliru.com/ indeed could not be found on the Google webserver)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The server doesn't have a page for that virtual host (Host headers, HTTP much)
 
11:51 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@sehe I just did that
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Indeed :)
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nonono, "they bird like rabbits".
 
If we keep like that, soon we'll have the salad.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yummy
 
11:53 AM
nothing beat the idea of you browsing the internet and found the pornography posted by your lecturer ...
 
Xeo
mmmmh, salad.
 
@chmod711telkitty I'm not ashamed of posting funny pornography.
 
@sehetw @KevlinHenney Chinese teens on Java: IWorkAtFactory
In the lame mildly racist puns department, he really missed an opportunity to make it a IPadBuilderFactoryWorker and then some
 
you are just not ashamed, full stop :p
 
11:55 AM
 
Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. According to some research, the projection of one's negative qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life. == Historical precursors == A prominent precursor in the formulation of the projection principle was Giambattista Vico (23 June 1668 – 23 January 1744), and an early formulation of it is found in ancient Greek...
 
@Xeo: Cat's favourite is "everything for the cat"
 
Xeo
lol
 
the prediction thingy on the HTC One in Romanian is great, I actually typed "closely" to what I wanted to write, and despite the fact that I missed most keys, it predicted the right words
wrote an SMS in ~6 seconds and only two words were properly typed by me, the rest were predicted
 
user1804599
@sehe I thought silly I prefix was more commonplace in C# than in Java.
 
12:01 PM
& then the cat appears ...
 
user1804599
Hmm, let's see if I can make debug logs log to other terminal.
 
user1804599
tailf is the best tool ever.
 
Ell
I never knew about tailf
I just used tail -f
 
Xeo
tail und then shift-F
wait, that was less
 
user1804599
cat and a named pipe is probably better, let's try that.
 
user1804599
12:08 PM
No need to keep this logs on my disk.
 
user1804599
> OSError: [Errno 29] Illegal seek
 
user1804599
Python sucks!
 
@rightføld it is. by now. It started with COM, IThink
 
user1804599
I could also just cat the tty and grep.
 
tail -f is for a running log
less or more is for a static one
 
12:10 PM
@sehe It did, because COM didn't have namespaces because it had to interop with C. There is really no point if you don't have to interop with C and can just move them into an interfaces namespace.
 
Who mentioned usefulness? It was a lame pun on the interwebs
 
@rightføld how's that differ from tail -f?
 
user1804599
Not.
 
poor steamed lobster ...
 
@rightføld No, it's not. C++ already has a notion of stack unwinding. It doesn't need a notion of a call stack.
 
Ell
12:12 PM
It is different
It doesn't change the access time of a log file
 
@AndyProwl Also, ew.
 
Ell
It also prevents the disk from spinning up if there is no activity
Whereas tail -f would have the disk spinning up
Isn't the stack a processor concept?
Or does the processor just see memory?
 
A stack is a data structure?
 
processors don't know about the stack
 
user1646075
@AlexM. apart from the special instructions...
 
12:14 PM
well there's that
 
user1646075
@Ell how does it do that?
 
@AlexM. push would like a word with you.
 
I wondered if a logger macro that uses __FUNCTION__ could ever be called in a context that is not a function. But apparently it wouldn't be an error anyway.
 
pops and pushes do operate on the stack
 
Lol mounting shit with atime
 
12:15 PM
but the stack isn't tied to the processor, as in, a component of it
that's how I understood the question
 
user1646075
@AlexM. calls, returns...
 
Ell
@r.martinho right, the call stack is what I meant
 
user1646075
@AlexM. true.
 
Ell
From the little assembly I've seen, I recall there being a stack pointer
 
@Ell Not really, it can be implemented with inotify
 
12:15 PM
@AlexM. So isn't the memory, and yet it knows about memory.
 
that applies to anything manipulating the memory then
 
What is "anything"?
 
writing and reading to memory for example
it's a processor concept if you put it like that
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus is this reference to tailf? surely it can't force a remount. has to be a general feature independent of atime. Maybe it just checks the stats() on a regular basis first.
 
You can't put it any other way.
 
12:17 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes something that's not nothing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's an object of type boost::any.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes as far as I can tell... I'm back in
 
Whether it's present or not doesn't affect whether it's a thing for the processor.
 
@aclarke It might just restore the atime by itself, but really who cares about atime don't mount with atime enabled
 
but if you really want to, I don't mind waiting another turn till it takes effect.
 
12:18 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes are pops and pushes native instructions, or do they somehow split into other basic operations like mov on the area where the stack is defined?
 
@AlexM. In x86 they're special.
 
More likely option is that the FS was mounted with noatime when Ell tried that tool :v
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus yeah, that always was a bit lame. I'm a bit surprised that attempting a read on a file would make it spin the disk up if there's no reading to be done. Surely the inode knows.
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus heh. the man page makes special mention of this behaviour.
 
what's a good lightweight IDE for getting started w/ c++ (something i can use on a mac)?
 
Ell
12:20 PM
There are none
 
@VladV the shell
 
user1646075
@VladV the only lightweight ide for C or C++ is shell, make and gcc
 
@VladV vim
 
user1646075
also gdb
 
Ell
@catplusplus I was just reading the man page :3
 
12:21 PM
@thecoshman Yes. It's still Cat's turn, though. I actually choose the limit so you could join on Sam's turn and so still take yours, but it didn't pass on my turn :(
 
user1646075
@Ell could look at the sauce but too meh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it doesn't say I have to wait till the end of cat's turn. Just till the end of voting on the current proposal, there is not one...
 
thanks, but i was thinking something along the lines of textwrangler, but with autocomplete
 
I can't find that stupid tool anywhere, so it's probably just bogus shit that was accurate 20 years ago
 
> all the votes on rules-change proposals undergoing debate or voting at that time are complete
 
12:22 PM
@thecoshman No, I mean that since it's Cat's turn, what would have been your first turn is past. You can vote on Cat's.
 
Oh, and it does use inotify
 
Also, not here, please.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes true.
 
user1646075
rats.
 
> It is strangely appropriate that the video gets out of synch. It just creates another level of canon there. Sometimes it even "sounds" well (e.g. I realized this somewhere after 21:04) when you imagine the sound with the fingermovement.

(This delay could be a feature of my browser, perhaps)
 
Ell
12:27 PM
@sehe that's one creep pianist
 
iraq lobster
 
@Ell hmm?
 
Ell
just the way he moves :O it looks like he should be in a horror film
the piano is beautiful though
 
maybe he is
MAYBE THIS IS THE HORROR FILM
a plot twist which would surprise precisely no-one
 
Ell
Hmm. Thinking of getting one of these education.ti.com/en/us/products/calculators/…
 
12:33 PM
aren't there apps that do the same thing on mobiles?
I think calculators are way too expensive if you already have a phone that can run apps like that
 
Ell
@AlexM. I can't take a mobile phone into my exam, unfortunately :p
 
@Ell I agree. And, as I learned much later, so did another of my piano heroes:
> He shared a mutual admiration with jazz pianist Bill Evans, who made his seminal record Conversations with Myself using Gould's celebrated Steinway CD 318 piano
 
@Ell what, you want to get a high grade?
 
Ell
@AlexM. Of course :)
 
graphing is part of the problems that take too much effort to solve for me
gimme a 5/10 and I'll go home happy
just wanna pass
speaking of college, I'm in my final year
can't wait to end this shit
it gets in the way of my work so much
 
Ell
12:37 PM
@AlexM. I'd be fine with that if just passing got me into the university I want to go
but it hasn't
so I'm trying again
 
if at first you don't succeed, try, try, try, try, try, trtrtrtr try again
 
ITT freddy could be teaching puppy, rofl
 
Ell
@chmod711telkitty how?
 
@chmod711telkitty You can't teach a young dog new tricks.
 
well, fred is going to teach undergrad CS/CE students & puppy was applying to those courses? ... think abstract, think abstract!
@MartinJames for some reasons puppy reminds me of the grumpy cat ...
 
Ell
12:40 PM
puppy is going back to school?
 
was ... past tense
 
why would he
he has a job and $$$ now
 
Sigh. /r/cpp being imbeciles again
 
lol reddit
 
Apparently, writing x <= 1 ? false : something_else is more readable than x > 1 && something_else.
What the fuck?!
 
12:42 PM
"Here boy! Come here! Now, fetch! Bin!"
 
The same people probably also write if (!!!!!!x != false) or something along these lines.
 
going to dentist good luck me
 
I've got an actual C++ question..
 
12:47 PM
Well well. That doesn't look good, does it. In my defense, I had the majority but I didn't know what token to click. That was disappointing. C++ Quiz
 
vector<int> v(1,3);
it = find(v.begin(), v.begin(), 3);
assert(it == v.end());
 
Xeo
@sehe wazzat
 
I would have expected that assertion to hold, however it fails in VS 2012. Why?
 
@Xeo added the link
 
Am I just confused or what?
 
Xeo
12:48 PM
Yes
Just because find doesn't do anything doesn't mean it suddenly returns v.end() - it's still v.begin(), the second passed parameter.
 
So end points to a non-existing element past the end of the container.
 
end is only returned when thing is not found
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Note that find operates on [begin, begin) here
 
Ah and since find did not do anything it returns begin?
@Xeo and that would be a range with 0 elements.
 
Well then begin is end :v
 
12:50 PM
So what does find do?
 
Xeo
Nothing
And returns the second passed argument
 
@Nils end() is one past the end of the vector
 
AND WHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT IT RETURNS THE SECOND PARAMETER?!
 
Xeo
(actually, the first advanced so far that it's equal to the last, which is the same here)
 
@Mgetz yeah I can read :)
 
Xeo
12:51 PM
Oh wait, it's actually the second parameter, nvm
> Iterator to the first element satisfying the condition or last if no such element is found.
where last is the second passed argument.
@Nils In the standard?
 
Where?
 
@sehe actually yeah
it's kinda hard to know what to click on
like, in that "pointer wasn't checked for null before operation"
 
@sehe So much crap code. It's impressive.
 
what do I click on? the pointer?
apparently I have to click on the operation
 
Dereference.
It's the dereference that is wrong.
 
12:55 PM
argh my bad just read it again it is the second in case it does not find anything, not the last.
thx @Xeo
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes but in my mind it was more like "the way this pointer is being handled is wrong"
 
> I see that you have run into the pathetic shit known as John Haugeland. Don't worry about him! He's a troll all over the internet. Just check out this post about him on reddit. He's a pathetic loser without a life who gets off on being a douche to others.
whoah
@R.MartinhoFernandes And it's not clear at all with the 'identical subexpressions', I was clicking the '||' operator with identical LHS/RHS, e.g.
 
@SusanSweedyk That code is not C++.
 
4 messages moved to bin
3 messages moved to bin
 
Ell
Man. I need some maths/electronics help. I'm terrible at integration! I've forgotten it all!
 
1:04 PM
pls
 
@Ell me too, that's the price for when you don't use something
 
@SusanSweedyk you're already receiving help in the C room
concentrate on that
thanks!
 
Trolls get so shamefully popular.
 
@Ell Use some symbolic math suite like Mathematica or Maple instead?
 
Ell
I'll never learn that way :(
 
1:08 PM
@sehe Missclick on reply?
 
@SusanSweedyk "pls"? Please consider how impolite that really is.. You can't even type words ("o/p"?) and you demand help? We don't have time for that. There's plenty books in the library.
@VáclavZeman Most assuredly
 
@sehe that's a stupid test, you can't argue on what something should or should not do based on patterns you have in your mind. The same analyzer can't say that most of those are errors, "I think this should be different.."
 
@MarcoA. WAT?
 
Referring to the test you posted some time ago
 
I know. You're missing the point. Most, if not all of these are objectively code issues.
 
Xeo
1:13 PM
vdlist_iterator& operator--(int) {
  vdlist_iterator tmp(*this);
  mp = mp->mListNodePrev;
  return tmp;
}
hahaha, what.
 
oops
 
Xeo
two errors in that code :|
 
@sehe sure, but perhaps the programmer was perverted enough to actually meant it
 
@Xeo What's the second? missing check? (Decrementing the first iterator could just be outlawed or the list may be circular by definition)
@MarcoA. Meh. That makes the alleged programmer perversion "silly". Not the test.
 
Xeo
@sehe mp vs tmp.
 
1:15 PM
Mmm?
 
Xeo
> mp = mp->mListNodePrev;
wait
argh
 
Is this somehow pre-increment? I thought this was postincrement.
 
Xeo
nvm
this is annoying
 
:) It is
 
> To add files, drag and drop them into the comment text area.
this is the only way I can upload files in this issue tracker bullshit
and it doesn't work
there's no file browser and upload button as an alternative
UX geniuses at work
 
Xeo
1:21 PM
@sehe Confusing naming should be an error.
 
@Xeo It's not an error. It is a crime though
@LightnessRacesinOrbit agreed. Reminds me to check up on the details of that lunar eclipse due tonight (?)
 
Tonight but not in Europe.
(It's gone already)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes From that pic you tweeted, there's no good places to see it.
bar the middle of the oceans :P
I was looking at it on my phone... so probably some islands or something.
 
@sehe I don't like perverted and unintuitive code, but believe me somebody in huge companies does.
 
user1804599
The incompetent do.
 
1:35 PM
that might be called "smarter than you" by someone else. Although I would agree with you
"I can understand everything into this mess, why can't you?"
 
user1804599
I just wrote code that synchronizes data. :v
 
@MarcoA. So what? It's still en error when you memset(,,sizeof(this)). You can name me any (ir)rational reason to dislike the that test, but you cannot call it silly. Calling it silly is misguided.
@MarcoA. It's not about understanding "why the mess". It's about the mess preventing understanding to the extent that errors occur.
 
@MarcoA. Nope. They're all bugs found in real code.
 
@sehe not referring to that instance, but to a question I can't remember with something like exp->func1(); exp->func1(); and the error was "copypaste error, it should have been exp->func1(); exp->func2();"
other errors were fine. Not complaining on the whole test. That is indeed useful.
 
Quizzes are usually dumb
 
1:45 PM
But some questions are not
 
@MarcoA. You're confusing the diagnostic (top-right) with the analysis (bottom right)
 
still, I think some questions don't make much sense. You can even use an artificial brain which uses highly sophisticated heuristic-based NNs to tell me that. I would still tell you they're nonsense to me.
anyway I'm tired, I'm probably wrong..
 
It's not a silly test. The question was **not** can you spot the syntax errors or definite UB. The question is "can you spot the bug".
This is fine, the question mode tells you (extraneous info) that there must be a bug.
Also, this is precisely the kind of question that you have to mentally answer when doing a code review, or trouble shooting legacy code.
It's not silly. End of story :)
 
some questions are to me :>
 
You might have meant "I don't like questions where we cannot formally prove that answer". That wasn't the question. The question was: "Spot the bug". And yes, you need this kind of heuristics to spot them.
 
1:49 PM
still, that's a good tool anyway
 
(Otherwise, we would have software verifiers producing formal proofs)
 
unless we can code an OL-based one I don't suppose that's going to happen soon.
 
@MarcoA. You know what's silly? Assuming such thing should not have any human intervention whatsoever.
Yes, the machine will have false positives.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's indeed true
 
Boo boo, they're low frequency and the true positives are totally worth it.
I'm the robot.
 
1:51 PM
lecturing at uni level is.. well, it's an experience to say the least
 
What even is that. It's assuredly not in a university, then, that much is implicitly clear.
 
@sehe I have no idea what you are trying to say, but what I meant; "lecturing at a university is.. interesting"
2
 
Ah. So much clearer.
 
I can't see how the sentence would be interpreted in any other way, besides that "uni level" could imply that it was lectures on the same "level" at a location that might not necessarily be a university.
 
I think we're all tired here
 
1:55 PM
"at uni level" is circumlocution that suggests that "at a university" was somehow not appropriate
 
what about "at unicorns' level" ?
that would have been appropriate too
 
aaanyhow; I'm still surprised about those "lucky" few who blame the problem description for not successfully managing to do the task they are assigned, even when 89% (real figure) have gotten ACCEPTED on our automated tests, and the "it's not me, it's you" folks are <2% of those taking the course
@MarcoA. imaginary super-awesome level? yeah, that'd be wicked
 
@FilipRoséen-refp You should probably spend a little time on SO for a change :)
 
@FilipRoséen-refp unicorns love lectures, it's a matter of fact
 
@sehe, always using fancy words to correct others, which undoubtedly leads to more confusion than it has to.. now I have trouble understanding the shit that got corrected, just because I got confused about what @sehe said it meant.
 
1:57 PM
It should depend on whether you know what you're going to tell. If anything, I'd expect it to be easier in colleges since people are at least intrinsically motivated to listen (yeah, low bar). Additionally the that you know your audience has a certain minimum required background knowledge only helps
 
@sehe I've been busy with juggling my three jobs.. mostly it is a result of modelling getting scheduled on days where it shouldn't have, so I've been working nights for.. I'm not sure how long
 
@FilipRoséen-refp I don't mind. You clarified in a single post. Good enough for me :)
 
@sehe now, where the heck is my cookie?
 
@FilipRoséen-refp I meant, if you're surprised at the whiny kids... You can sample that particular social phenomenon at leisure on SO
 
I got a bit of a moral dilemma, and I expect @sehe (amongst others) to jump to the rescue
 
1:59 PM
@FilipRoséen-refp I ate it :(
 
hi everyone :)
 
@sehe indeed, I could.
 
hi
 

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