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1:00 AM
@ThePhD Dude, you are using C++.
 
@ThePhD No.
 
@CatPlusPlus I think it's that cheap candy you can get.
 
JavaScript is only a thing because Netscape pushed it 15 years ago.
 
@ThePhD Um. I use the web and have a language that does not suck, is that what you mean?
 
I use xC+#.
 
1:00 AM
> He gives some specific examples, like the Wikipedia page on a programming language being unable to execute any example programs in that language, and the lack of WYSIWYG editing, even though it was available in desktop applications long before the web existed. 23 years later, and we're just barely managing to start to work around the limitations imposed by the original web browser design decisions.
 
I use a language of my own invention where braces are functions
 
What I mean is, is there a statically-checked language for the web that browsers support right off hte bat?
 
@ThePhD No.
 
I see. And you can't send browsers native code to run.
 
No.
And why would you?
 
1:01 AM
NPAPI, but you can't automate the installation.
 
Code for browsers was never even supposed to be important.
 
Users have to do it, and nobody likes to be bothered.
 
The current state of development is that pyramid building is the norm. Many slaves and much sweat to produce a colossal monolithic thing.
 
@minitech There are no languages that do not suck. Your statement is trivially false.
 
And it's automatically a red flag if you're new to plugin scene.
 
1:02 AM
Hey @CatPlusPlus, I’d be willing to chip in for a server, what does it do
 
Is there a VM language that's statically checked that runs in a web browser, maybe?
 
Serve stuff.
@ThePhD You can compile the VM to JavaScript.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Lojban?
 
user1804599
@ThePhD Write VM in JavaScript once and be done with it.
 
Blah.
 
1:03 AM
Did anybody ever stop to ask “why”?
 
Well, you can use VBScript if you're on IE.
 
@ThePhD "VM language"... "runs in a web browser"...
 
@ThePhD Java Applets.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
Were you trying to make sense? Or just being purposedly redundant?
 
1:03 AM
Browsers should not require scripts.
Anything else is abuse
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked I don't have Java installed.
 
@not-rightfold Does anybody?
 
user1804599
And I'm not going to just because some moron wants me to.
 
Well, it seems what web browsers want is a chunk of text or bytecode that it can put into either its own native engine or a VM to go through before being put in one of its elements.
 
Hm… what?
 
1:04 AM
So I'm trying to figure out if there's a language that fits that.
 
No, browsers want JavaScript.
 
JavaScript
 
You can't replace it.
 
Yeah, you can.
 
q_q
 
1:05 AM
But you can only replace it with nothing, which is a really good idea.
 
@minitech Step 1: build time machine?
 
Right, back to VBScript.
 
What is HTML5 then?
 
HTML5 is a version of HTML
 
1:05 AM
A new version of HTML.
 
You can try to program in HTML.
 
Right, HTML doesn't truly count I guess...
=[ This sucks.
 
@minitech Yes, great idea.
 
I'll come back in 20 years
 
Why does it suck?
 
1:06 AM
It blows.
 
What is it that you so desperately need accomplished in a lame scripting language in a browser?
 
Uh, a chat.
 
@StackedCrooked: You don’t say‽
@CatPlusPlus IRC much
 
Seriously, I wanted to say something but forgot.
 
1:07 AM
Oh, right, something about that train having sailed.
 
Oh, why not?
 
@minitech It allows you to get updates without manual refreshing.
 
user1804599
There's nothing wrong with JavaScript as long as I don't have to use it.
 
@StackedCrooked The world would be better off without that happening, too
 
Yeah, who needs responsiveness.
 
1:08 AM
That's a bold statement.
 
@CatPlusPlus What does this mean
 
It means you suck.
 
No, you suck
 
No, you.
 
Suck you.
 
1:09 AM
No you times infinity
 
have you guys played Skullgirls
 
No, what’s that?
 
A video game
 
@Borgleader I'm on double-pepperoni.
 
1:10 AM
I'm on metaphorical drama popcorn
 
Xbox Live ArcadeApril 11, 2012August 22, 2013 (official release) | genre = Fighting | media = Digital distribution | arcade system = Taito Type X2 }} Skullgirls is a 2D fighting game independently developed by Reverge Labs and co-published by Autumn Games and Konami. The game was released through the PlayStation Network and Xbox Live Arcade in North America, Europe, and Australia from April–May 2012, and later received a Japanese release by CyberFront for the PlayStation Network in February 2013. A Microsoft Windows version, developed by Lab Zero Games and co-published by Autumn Games and...
 
Woo
 
Half the lounge was watching Quakecon live
 
lol
Sorry.
 
Doesn’t that go without question?
 
1:13 AM
Some found it boring though IIRC
 
Carmack does like to ramble
But they were informative and nice ramblings
I only tuned in for most of Carmack's talk
 
^ same
i didnt watch anything else
 
It was amazingly boring
 
user1804599
I'm going to try Rust.
 
@not-rightfold Good choice.
 
1:14 AM
Rust does seem to get more buzz lately.
 
Unrelated: holy crap ADOM is getting updates.
 
user1804599
@minitech I don't trust you. You like JavaScript.
 
I like it. Would never use it for anything, but it’s a really good concept.
 
I'm rusty.
 
No, it's not.
 
1:15 AM
@not-rightfold I don’t like JavaScript. I have an unusually high JavaScript tolerance.
@CatPlusPlus That’s not an argument, you’re just contradicting me.
 
JavaScript is also annoyingly verbose in its syntax.
 
@StackedCrooked Is not!
 
I listed reason why JS is shit more than once.
 
@StackedCrooked JS is verbose?
 
If chat search didn't suck I'd look for them.
 
1:16 AM
@CatPlusPlus We are talking about Rust
 
document.getElementsByName(). // -> I cant start a closure here
I need to create a for loop.
 
@StackedCrooked What does that even mean
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked document.getElementsByName('div').map(function(element) { … }).
 
That it sucks.
 
If you mean you can’t use forEach on it, yes, array-like objects are a stupid antifeature of browser JavaScript
I don’t see how that’s verbose or even relevant, doesn’t everybody in this room kind of agree
 
1:17 AM
That's what I mean.
 
@not-rightfold If you’re not using the result, use forEach. Gosh.
 
@not-rightfold Does JS have that?
 
.forEach isn't particularly good feature.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Yes.
 
Also, no.
It would look like
 
1:18 AM
I haven't tried JQuery yet. Maybe that helps.
 
Array.prototype.forEach.call(document.getElementsByTagName('div'), function(element) { … });
@StackedCrooked No, it does the opposite.
 
user1804599
Also use Gear.
 
Never not use jQuery.
 
user1804599
Never use jQuery.
 
0
Q: I am a beginner, please help me with syntax

user2714617void Rectangle::DrawShape(int width, int height) const { for (int i = 0; i < height; i++) { for (int j = 0; j < width; j++) { cout << "*"; } cout << " \n"; } } My compiler says "out-of-line definition of 'DrawShape' does not match any decl...

 
user1804599
1:18 AM
Use Underscore.js.
 
Use neither.
 
user1804599
And Gear.
 
@not-rightfold any real arguments?
 
At my previous work they used Prototype.
 
Don’t use JavaScript.
Don’t compile to JavaScript.
 
1:19 AM
@minitech use css
 
@not-rightfold Gear doesn't even exists
 
Don’t use JavaScript libraries.
Don’t script your browser.
 
user1804599
@zerkms Clusterfuck of random features with terrible API.
 
It's your imaginary perfect language
 
You're all badlets.
 
user1804599
1:19 AM
DOM API is way better than jQuery.
 
@not-rightfold that's argumentative indeed
 
user1804599
The only thing jQuery does better is AJAX.
 
:lol: no
 
@not-rightfold This
Also, jQuery doesn’t do Ajax better.
 
ajax is better than jquery!
 
1:20 AM
Better would be an event machine, but it doesn’t matter because you shouldn’t use JavaScript
 
Sigh. I didn't really get anything done today.
 
We got another hardcore one in this room.
 
Except when you want to be close to the metal with Node.js
 
user1804599
Especially now we have stuff like .dataset, .querySelector and .querySelectorAll.
 
I love how the lounge has become a pit of random statements (none of which are proven somehow)
 
1:20 AM
Don’t forget .classList! <3
@Jefffrey @not-rightfold is proving stuff sort of.
 
@Jefffrey Basically don't listen to them.
 
user1804599
(Browsers other than the latest version of Google Chrome do not exist.)
 
user1804599
WTF RUST.
 
user1804599
WHY ARE YOU COMPILING LLVM.
 
C’mon, it works in Firefox.
 
1:21 AM
Firefox handles HTML5 and Javasript exceedingly poorly.
 
@not-rightfold Rust has some weird static parts.
 
user1804599
@minitech Firefox does not exist.
 
I had a beat-based timing thing programmed from a friend
 
And a silly syntax and semantics, but bleh.
 
Running it in Firefox was the worst thing ever. I thougth he just programmed it horribly
I moved it to Chrome, and it worked beautifully.
 
1:22 AM
Chrome used to be bliss, but lately it's unstable and resource hungry.
 
Yes, that’s because everyone develops in Chrome for some reason
It’s the new IE6, if you’d permit me to be so stupidly inflammatory and repetitive
 
Fx24 is much better.
Than previous ones.
 
Firefox 23 would be okay
I use it because it has NoScript
NoScript is literally heaven.
 
To each his own I guess.
 
user1804599
NoScript is silly.
 
1:23 AM
@not-rightfold Why?
 
Because.
 
user1804599
Because I want shit to just work.
 
That’s what taking away JavaScript does
 
Convenience is counterpoint to security.
 
user1804599
Last time I used NoScript it made things stop from working.
 
1:24 AM
Stupid things I’m sure
 
user1804599
@minitech No shit Sherlock.
 
I stopped caring about NoScript long time ago.
 
Ghostery works alright.
 
Web assumes JS. Get over it.
 
@not-rightfold I meant “it makes things work”
 
user1804599
1:24 AM
It's silly useless software for overcautious people.
 
No. I’m not overcautious.
I disable scripts because they add stupid functionality that I don’t want to use most of the time
Nothing to do with security
 
There's this following that claims the web was intended to be document based. And JS is therefore evil.
 
user1804599
I simply don't visit terrible websites (well, except for Stack Overflow).
 
Sure, NoScript has these idiotic XSS filtering features that I turn off immediately…
 
1:26 AM
:loL:
 
@StackedCrooked The web was intended to be document-based. Not the reason JS is evil, but still…
Also, “intended” is such a stupid concept
 
user1804599
I have a proposal.
 
And programming was intended for smart people who can read, so what
 
Meh.
 
user1804599
Let's shut up about bad technologies forever and start talking about interesting stuff.
 
1:27 AM
It reminds me of “as nature intended”. Nature ain’t intendin’ nothin’
 
Let's talk about C++. <3
 
Before JS became so popular every one was using Flash. And before that it was all applets. There is an undeniable need ..
 
Need for stupidity
 
user1804599
1:27 AM
@ThePhD Shut up.
 
Documents are lame.
 
An undeniable need for people to add useless widgets to their site
Flash splash screens and applets to transfer files
And show ads. Can’t have proper, track-you ads without client-side plugins and scripts!
 
user1804599
I'm going to figure out how best to do semantic analysis of Xen.
 
@minitech Why do you have 2k upvotes in ?
 
@nightcracker It’s my primary language
And I know a lot about it if I may say so
 
1:28 AM
@minitech And you run NoScript?
 
And you can't have apps like GMail.
 
@CatPlusPlus Have you tried using Gmail without scripts?
The HTML-only version is beautiful.
Much more space-efficient than the “app”.
 
I haven't used it in a long time.
 
@nightcracker Yes.
 
user1804599
You don't need NoScript for that.
 
user1804599
1:29 AM
It's a setting.
 
One example anyway
 
Firefox 23 removed that setting.
 
This chat, if you want another.
 
Because it sucks
 
@minitech they moved it
not removed
 
1:30 AM
@zerkms Moved it to NoScript, AFAIK?
 
they re-moved it, as in the move it, and them moved it again.
 
@CatPlusPlus IRC is pretty good.
 
@minitech nope, moved it to about:config
 
@zerkms Awkward.
 
No, it's not.
 
1:30 AM
I do not see why a programmable webpage would be inferior to a static webpage.
 
@minitech people don't use it
 
@CatPlusPlus Why not? Persistence?
 
Also not the point.
 
If so, whatever. You can have your JavaScript for that.
 
Has IRC changed of the past few years?
 
1:31 AM
Except it’s usually inappropriate.
 
user1804599
I wonder how possible it is to do monadic parsing in Rust.
 
@StackedCrooked No, it has not.
 
@StackedCrooked has IRC changed ever?
 
I didn't think it was very cool.
 
Sorry it wasn’t cool enough for you I guess
 
1:32 AM
I was against JS 6 years ago, too.
 
user1804599
I'll write my compiler in Rust.
 
@CatPlusPlus And now you are… uh… something
 
@StackedCrooked Latest RFCs are from around 2008, I think.
 
@minitech I have my preferences.
Hm.
 
In other news, I need a hearthstone beta key =/
 
1:33 AM
No, 2000. With errata.
It's an old, awkward protocol.
 
*cough* HTTP
 
@CatPlusPlus Sounds like my social interaction protocol.
 
One day we should just revamp the entire network protocol stack
it's pretty rotten to the core
 
Yes, but it’s too late.
Half of people hate change!
 
@nightcracker What's so bad about it?
 
1:34 AM
@nightcracker this will never happen. changes cost too much
 
@StackedCrooked Doesn’t this discussion kind of explain it?
 
TCP is not going anywhere.
 
TCP is fine, let’s keep TCP
 
IPv6 is still not common.
 
@StackedCrooked IP and DNS are awful
 
user1804599
1:35 AM
I'm going to require parentheses around guards.
 
user1804599
Fuck unparenthesised guards.
 
I would prefer Mail Pigeons
 
@not-rightfold \o/
 
DNS isn't going anywhere either.
 
I've been implementing TCP for the last few months.
 
1:35 AM
@StackedCrooked especially from a security perspective, while low-overhead security would be possible
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes, this is all wishful thinking.
(Speaking of which, IRC isn’t going anywhere!)
(On the other hand, neither of them are going anywhere either)
 
nothing goes anywhere ever
 
Fuck IRC, XMPP forever.
 
fuck XML
 
Also JavaScript
 
1:37 AM
Btw, chat over HTTP is not an option?
 
Uh. Sure it is.
 
would be my preference
 
Why?
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked websockets or gtfo
 
Is it slightly better than the IRC protocol somehow?
 
1:37 AM
why?
 
@StackedCrooked Horrible responsiveness.
 
How does this chat work?
 
WebSocket.
 
@CatPlusPlus You keep using that word…
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked hybrid of websockets and AJAX.
 
1:38 AM
this chat is pretty different from any other
 
Ctrl + U and find out
 
@minitech It's a pretty easy to understand word.
 
user1804599
WebSockets for incoming information, AJAX for sending messages, relocating messages, flagging and starring.
 
@CatPlusPlus You used it when we were talking about not having JavaScript earlier
 
Full refresh vs partial refresh.
It's really not that hard.
 
1:39 AM
That matters so very little it’s almost funny
Except I am really unamused and just kind of sad when I think about stuff
 
user1804599
Gadverdamme.
 
It does matter.
 
user1804599
Rust compiler emits warnings when compiling the Rust standard library.
 
When it does, use JavaScript.
I will enable your domain in NoScript
 
Yes, that's why it's used so widely.
 
user1804599
1:40 AM
> librustc/middle/trans/meth.rs
 
@CatPlusPlus Actually no
 
@not-rightfold lay off the drugs man
 
user1804599
librustc was written by transsexuals on meth.
 
It’s used widely for the same reason Comic Sans is used widely
 
what's the transsexual got to do with anything?
 
1:41 AM
Ugh
 
@not-rightfold middle-age transsexuals on meth *
 
People think it’s appropriate in a lot of situations where it is quite terribly the opposite
 
@not-rightfold you're the on in the middle?
 
user1804599
what's the meth got to do with anything?
 
You remind me why I hate myself from 6 years ago.
(And today, but that's another matter)
 
1:41 AM
@not-rightfold Being on meth is a mind-altering state.
 
Next thing you’ll be telling me you like client-side MVC or something
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Why did you hate yourself?
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Why do you hate yourself?
 
@CatPlusPlus Why do you hate yourself?
 
In other news, you remind me why I hate myself from 6 years ago.
 
1:42 AM
@CatPlusPlus Why will you hate yourself?
 
user1804599
I never hated myself.
 
user1804599
I'm awesome.
 
user1804599
I only hate other people.
 
@not-rightfold Denial. Denial..
 
(Er, rather than hate myself, disagree with my ideals at the time. I am and was a super-good person otherwise. Obviously.)
 
user1804599
1:43 AM
I hate all of you.
 
@not-rightfold Ehm... yeah... sure.
 
<3
 
user1804599
</3
 
today
I watched some Starcraft 2.
 
user1804599
RAGE I AM IN
 
1:43 AM
and that's pretty much it
 
For linear time, for every item n you add, it increases by the same amount of time, correct?
 
Close enough
 
user1804599
@DeadMG You didn't write any C++ code today?
 
user1804599
Must be the best day of your life.
 
Also, does this chat have a ton of glitches for anyone else?
Most IRC clients wouldn’t do that.
 
1:44 AM
Yes, no, maybe. Define glitches.
 
Messages appearing twice, for instance
 
Most IRC clients are utter shit regardless.
 
Appearing twice then correcting themselves, or staying that way?
 
I only need one, and it works.
@Pawnguy7 And then correcting themselves.
 
@minitech Crappy network and an artifact of acks.
 
1:45 AM
It's not a big annoyance imo.
 
I have seen that, yes.
 
No, not really
 
IRC will happily swallow messages if your network craps out.
 
A lot of things are not a big annoyance
 
@minitech No.
 
1:46 AM
Yeah convince us.
 
user1804599
@minitech It all starts with the avatar list when somebody who's plonked is on there.
 
@Rapptz You don’t know that! Until everyone has responded.
 
It's you.
 
/me will be right back, is having dinner with fun people </3
 
user1804599
 
1:47 AM
Been in chat long enough. Outside of the ignore issue there aren't too many bugs.
 
user1804599
Dat blank line between Chemistpp and Nican.
 
user1804599
FIX IT
 
@minitech Sorry I tried to be fun for you :(
 
lol
 
1:47 AM
Most of the issues are just a symptom that nobody in the dev team cares.
 
I'm much more concerned about lack of kicking/banning people, properly deleting messages, etc.
 
But hey, they enabled multi-line quotes
 
@DeadMG You're not the most tolerant person either.
 
Proper message deletion how?
 
user1804599
Ah, chapters about the type system. Now it gets interesting.
 
1:49 AM
me or cat, or both?
 
Disambiguation.
But Cat may be worse now that I think about it.
 
well, frankly, it would be less of an issue if we had more ability to clearly differentiate the room instead of every poor sucker who wants more attention to his question thinking that this place is a great idea.
but secondly, I'm a lot better than I used to be.
 
I occasionally get annoyed by them.
 
I just realized why the word disambiguation makes sense.
 
1:51 AM
well
the ones that really annoy me are the ones who are like, "er mah gerd, it's just a question" or won't go away.
if I simply had the power to remove them if they don't get the hint, it would be much less stressful.
 
Most people who come here to ask a question are simply not aware of the policy.
They don't do it again.
 
Needs a modal MOTD.
Also not going to happen here.
 
well, if you search meta for chat and status-completed, you get like, 5 completed requests in the last 12 months, and most of them are trivial fixes like https oneboxing
 
Xeo
@sehe Applicative works with monads of a function on monad of a data type.
Anyways, Twilight Imperium done - 11 hours after we started.
A single round :D
Time to get home.
 
1:55 AM
how to install GTA V
 
Xeo
@Stacked: We played here.
We got a big conference room with many tables which is perfect for this.
Welp, gone
 
fail.
also, lol wtf, they wrote "Five" across the V? what a fail.
 
@Xeo At my first job we also had a few lan parties which lasted until 4-5 AM.
 
user1804599
Yay.
 
user1804599
Rust is finally done building.
 
1:57 AM
Usually the last 3 hours were tower defense.
That was back in 2007 though.
When towerdefense was still new.
We played it with Warcraft III.
 
Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat. :v
 
that game had some good TDs
 
Yeah it was certainly very addictive.
 
hell, it plain had some good custom maps.
 

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