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Xeo
12:00 AM
Eh, it's up to the compiler to ignore it.
Early GCC versions started towers of hanoi or a rogue-like game if they encountered it
 
Lolwat
For realsies?
 
Yes
 
I thought the standard said to ignore them.
Or was it changed in C++11?
> Any pragma that is not recognized by the implementation is ignored.
I guess it could recognize the ones it doesn't use, right?
 
Xeo
Well, once was recognized apparently
 
(I take back what I didn’t really say yesterday: Rust is the best.)
 
Xeo
12:11 AM
but not in the way you want :)
 
Hence, implementation defined behaviour.
 
12:28 AM
@minitech ( Cat would like you. I think he also likes Factor and Forth. I've never touched any of the three )
Hi there.
Also WRITING A GENERAL PURPOSE LEXER IS HARD.
 
lol
by "hard" you mean "virtually impossible and not very useful anyway"
since hardly anybody has a need to lex more than one or two languages if it's not their entire fuckin' product
 
Very possible, and very useful, especially for shader code, yo.
 
if you are using shader code then it's not general-purpose at all, it's GLSL or HLSL.
 
Yes. But I build it on top of a general purpose lexer.
My current one isn't very robust, though.
The ruleset is fixed to punctuators and keywords.
So while you can edit those, it's... not really that wonderful.
 
so you take what could be a perfectly good specific-target lexer and utterly blow it with a general-purpose lexer?
 
12:33 AM
Well, it's not like I've blown it.
It works well enough for the time being and compiles all the shader code I give it. :c
It just doesn't feel... cool enough.
 
well, you're hideously overcomplicating the design by trying to make it general-purpose instead of just sticking to a language.
 
=[
 
lexers are just such small, easy things, it's not worth trying to save that code.
 
Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.
 
unless
you have one of those "general-purpose" lexers that is not general purpose at all.
the Wide lexer allows me to trivially change the punctuation and keywords accepted
but it's not a general-purpose lexer.
 
12:38 AM
@DeadMG Ahahaha say that again after you see me attempt it.
 
@chris For a minute, I thought you said "After I see you attempt it" and I was like "Dude, author of own complex programming language here?".
frankly, the only vaguely complex part of the Wide lexer is handling location information for when you have to put characters back.
the rest is a total doddle.
and even that was pretty simple with a bit of trial and error.
if you have trouble with a lexer, just steal my code
it should be simple enough to adapt to any programming language whose lexing needs are C-style.
 
Hmm, I just haven't researched lexing or parsing or anything at all.
As is, I'd be worse than useless at writing a simple language until I do something about that.
 
eh
IME a only a very little bit of parsing theory was actually useful, and almost none for lexing.
 
@DeadMG You always want me to "just steal your code"
:c
 
well
let's be fair now; I'm pretty sure that if you had just stolen the Wide Clang code and compiled it with a non-preview VS edition, it would have worked first time.
 
12:45 AM
Anybody seen my lightning?
 
Much better searching than I do. Anyway, I am working on a mechanic that allows it to split. If it does split, should it always split into two?
 
Oh light n ing
 
Haha. I also had lighting for my lightning, so it has gotten a bit confusing at times.
 
Hm.
Looks like I'm gonna need a union or somethin.
 
12:50 AM
A union? Why?
 
@chris you have an opinion?
 
@Pawnguy7 Looks pretty good.
 
For debugging.
I need a union to mesh with this nondescript aligned_storage blob
 
@chris I thought so, but making them split was suggested to me. If lightning did split (fractal-like, as in nature), should I make it only split into two groups? (not, say, branch once).
 
So I can get out a pointer that'll allow the debug engine to deisplay items
 
12:54 AM
@Pawnguy7 What do you mean by two groups? Only one level of fractal-y goodness?
 
Ttry an L-system.
 
@Pawnguy7 I tried to picture something like that and it looked bad in my head, but I'm not saying it will if you do it.
 
Also, consider that you only have finite resolution.
 
Well, in initial testing, branches with random direction and number look bad.
@chris you think there isn't enough space?
 
There is not enough space unless it branches like 2 pixels down
Otherwise, it's going to look horrible.
 
12:56 AM
@Pawnguy7 That's part of it.
 
That was my thought, yes.
But I can easily make this and keep it as it was, and if the resolution every changes, it is there.
Or, if it actually ends up not looking to bad.
 
Oh gawd
This feels so dirty
But it feels so good. <33
I hope it works
 
@ThePhD That's what she said...?
 
I'm not sure if she'd say that.
 
1:13 AM
 
Oh, those are pixels, huh
Don’t fork.
 
Here is how it currently works.
Once it is done generation, if it is a valid block (that is, not already hitting the ground, for example), then if a random bool is true, it gets the next part.
Which, is another random chance of failure, where the lower it is, the less likely.
Finally, they always split in those two directions.
Also, this is rare - took about five generations of this to get one, and this is when the first bolts are set to length 5, when in reality it will be [5, 15].
Keep or no?
 
No. Forks are supposed to be smaller than the main lightning bolt. It looks bad otherwise, and you can’t make it any smaller, so…
 
Good point.
Any ideas for new landscapes?
 
mars
 
1:24 AM
Anything new besides red and craters?
 
the mars rover?
 
Which do you guys find more clear for checking the MSB of a 16-bit signed integer? var & 0x8000 or var < 0?
 
the purpose is to check the bit, so use the mask.
 
Well, do you want to find out if it's negative or check the top bit? Why are you doing it?
 
I would actually go one step further and do bool isPressed = var & 0x8000;
 
1:29 AM
What @Borgleader says, if you're reading some keypad/switch port.
 
I just got into a small discussion in regards to GetAsyncKeyState, where the MSB or LSB can be set.
It's usually called like GetAsyncKeyState(blah) & 0x8000 (or < 0 if you prefer that I guess) anyway.
 
Whatever the bit means, make a const for it and AND it.
 
I think I will try mars. I like to have as many unique elements as possible, so if you have any ideas for what should be there, feel free to suggest.
 
Or #define
@Pawnguy7 'xdotool guy' would be good.
 
@MartinJames That was also mentioned. The Windows SDK should include macros for that.
But it doesn't.
I suppose if it did that for every function that returned bits, there would be a lot of extra code.
And used identifiers.
 
1:34 AM
@chris :( There are plenty macros for other stuff, so yes. Wierd..
 
Lol I need to stop being obsessed with the winapi and find a real framework or whatever to use.
.NET is nice, I just jump to what I know better.
And I started winapi before I was even remotely done learning the basics of C++, so I can truthfully tell people not to go that route.
 
Oh, hey, I use .NET.
<DllImport("user32.dll")>
Public Function GetAsyncKeyState(vKeys As Keys) As Integer
It’s not really any better unless something important has changed recently
 
@MartinJames I saw one of those posts, but I am not sure what you mean here.
 
@minitech Depends what you're doing, really. I'd definitely rather use it for forms than piecing together some terribly ugly code for each component entangled into one giant ball of relations. C# is pretty nice sometimes with built-in types acting properly as well, and no C backwards compatibility. On the other hand, when you need a lot of P/Invoke to do something, it's not really as fun. C++/CLI isn't perfect, either imo.
My lack of experience in C#/.NET means I don't code as elegantly as I could, either. R# is actually surprisingly good at helping with that a little.
 
Oh, well, a lot of other things are nicer. But I have no idea what you’re doing, so…
 
1:45 AM
@Pawnguy7 It would be kinda nice if he/she was banished to mars, preferably without any internet access, (or life-support, for that matter).
 
Also, try VB.NET, it’s the epitome of elegance in .NET.
 
@minitech I have no idea what I'm doing until I do it :)
 
@chris Most of my projects are so secret I'm not allowed to know what I'm doing.
 
@JerryCoffin Heh heh.
 
1:51 AM
@minitech LOL!
 
I once wrote code that could be used like "a"_key.disable();
It's fun remembering all the weird code I write for fun.
 
What language was that in?
 
@Pawnguy7 C++11
User-defined literals.
And then some terrible way of having a thread for a keyboad hook that I could add/remove keys to disable in.
 
Hrm, interesting. I should learn how to use those someday. That is a long list, though :D
 
@MartinJames What’s so funny? :(
 
1:57 AM
@Pawnguy7 C++14 is getting a couple for you to use. "abc"s is a std::string and 5min is a std::chrono::duration.
 
VB.NET has case-insensitivity, correct?
 
Yes.
 
My friend used VB for a while when he was starting to learn how to program.
 
VB or VB.NET?
 
I can't remember on the .NET bit.
 
1:58 AM
I once read an article by a VB.NET programmer, and some argument about why case-sensitivity is evil. I still don't understand their point of view, though.
 
@Borgleader In other words, the US government is going to do whatever the fuck they want regardless of law or privacy, which is not new.
 
I've (sort of) used it in...Microsoft Office macros.
 
@Pawnguy7 It can be seriously confusing sometimes, but whatever.
@chris VB is very, very, very different from VB.NET.
 
Case-sensitivity can be confusing?
 
but frankly
 
1:59 AM
@minitech Yeah, I've heard. It's like C++ and C.
 
@DeadMG Yep! Can you taste the freedom?
 
the whole internet-privacy thing is bad either way.
 
@chris Like C and C#, except even more different.
 
but the governments are going about it in such a way to make it even worse.
 
@minitech Fine, I'll ask :p
 
2:00 AM
@Pawnguy7 I very occasionally get bitten by it; nothing big, though.
 
@chris That is pretty sweet. Assuming VC supports it sometime.
 
Just like “why doesn’t this exist” and then “oh, this person said FileName instead of Filename
 
@Pawnguy7 Umm, let me see.
 
@chris They have keywords that look sort of similar, and that’s about the end of the similarities.
 
Post-RTM CTP.
@minitech Well then.
 
2:02 AM
Would this be like, two people working on something in the same scope?
 
@Pawnguy7 "abc"s is fucking dumb.
 
@DeadMG I wouldn't know. I found the latter more exciting, anything I do with std::string can be implicitly casted it seems.
 
@Pawnguy7 You've done it now.
 
Done what?
 
Wait for it...
Or just look this conversation up. It's already happened.
 
2:04 AM
On the evils of implicit casting?
 
@Pawnguy7 "abc"s + someConstCharStar + "abc" or something like ClassWithStdStringConversionCtor obj("abc"s); since just "abc" would require two implicit conversions.
Also, template argument deduction I guess.
 
I'm not fond of UDLs =/
 
@Pawnguy7 Here, it sort of starts around this one: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=11271454#11271454
 
I like UDLs.
 
UDLs are great for abusing syntax.
How else would I have commented how I did on this?
 
2:07 AM
I meant for constructing stuff.
 
I like _deg and _rad.
And honestly, 300ms is less verbose than and just as easy to read in context as std::chrono::milliseconds(300).
 
Yeah, UDLs are neat.
Don't get why @Borgleader doesn't like them
 
Wait until they get abuse and you'll see why
 
@minitech, He's "used both extensively in the past". They were his "two first real programming languages respectively" (VB then VB.NET).
 
@Borgleader It's been a couple years, hasn't been abused thus far.
 
2:11 AM
@Borgleader Uhh yeah, my link :p
Oh, you're 7k. Here.
This was the OP's code:
#include <accounting.h>
#include <stdio.h>

char *main()
{
    accounting bank = 100debits;
    bank = bank + 200debits;
    return printf("bal: %accounting\n", bank);
}
And here's what I did (scroll to the bottom):
 
wtf char* main?
 
@DeadMG lolwut
 
I couldn't get it to compile with char *main (obviously) or without underscores in the UDLs.
 
@chris Non-underscore reserved for future Standard use.
 
return printf?
 
2:14 AM
@DeadMG Exactly.
 
@chris Look at you being a dick and reminding me I don't have 10k rep :P
 
ahaha
@chris Oh I remember that. :P
Good stuff.
 
lol noob ISP
block torrent site ... block torrent site proxy -> user finds new proxy (repeat ad infinitum)
why even bother.
our govt and ISPs simply don't have the technical ability to prevent us from accessing them.
 
User switches ISP
 
2:17 AM
Damn modern movies and their 15 minute credits.
 
@minitech Forced by court order.
 
@DeadMG … where is this?
 
UK
 
@Rapptz The only one I know of that does even remotely that is the Bond films, and AFAIK they always did the whole "Song as credits" thing since like, 1950 or something.
 
2:18 AM
@minitech The United Kingdom of Great Censorship and Northern Blindness.
 
TPB has been blocked by several countries and it's breaking some act of something to use a proxy to access it.
It has like 500 proxy sites.
 
Not in Canada! Woohoo.
 
@minitech Yay Canada :)
 
And if it ever were… VPN to other country?
 
if(!*(++check)) // lol =[
 
2:22 AM
Well, my first simple program with Rust and I needed a C function.
 
What's the whole thing with Rust anyway?
Is it like D?
 
Or D-flat?
 
Uh… I guess?
 
Ah that sucks.
 
D sucks?
I like D :(
D :(
 
2:23 AM
then, I am unfortunately beholden to report, a diagnosis of "suck".
 
^ It is a smiley the other way
 
because D is terrible.
 
The more time goes on, the more I want D's property of using obj.member() to be able to call member(obj).
But it would break SFINAE even if it got in :(
 
That's a bit strange but okay
 
the real question is, why can't member(obj) call obj.member(), much like how operator overloads work.
 
2:25 AM
@DeadMG Why?
 
although I personally prefer the obj.member() syntax.
 
@Rapptz It's more natural to use the dot most times, which makes me feel guilty about not putting things in the class when I can help it.
 
@minitech Here's a simple example- language built in hash tables.
here's another example- value vs reference type shit.
oh look, here's another example- the utterly fucked up "postblit" shit.
 
@DeadMG That is actually seriously convenient
 
@minitech There is no major advantage to having it in the language compared to as a library.
 
2:26 AM
Whoa, Rust has freezing. Reminds me of strstream.
 
Xeo
Don't stuff features into the language "just because" if they might aswell be inthe library.
 
Hah, postblit.
 
There was a BoostCon or something presentation for overloading operator. that was sort of interesting to watch.
 
minitech wants the D
 
 
2:27 AM
but there's a vastly more realistic prospect of a library feature being fixed or upgraded.
than a language feature.
 
:D
 
or even updated without recompiling.
 
operator. would let you pass off whatever function it calls to the free versions.
 
overloading operator. sounds like a nightmare
 
not to mention that actually, there are lots of possible implementations.
 
2:29 AM
Yep, well.
 
and you can't really write a function that's gonna take the language-inbuilt hash table or some other hash table with slightly different implementation but identical interface.
because nobody can meet the interface of the language-defined hash table.
 
Or can you?
 
Rust doesn’t have it so I guess it is not sucky for the same reasons.
 
oh, and the garbage collection, fuck that.
@minitech I have no knowledge of Rust.
 
Well, @Rapptz asked whether it was like D.
 
2:30 AM
Wait, does D have some RAII option?
 
Does memshift exist?
 
@minitech To which you replied yes to! I don't know Rust.
 
@Rapptz Well, it’s not exactly like D.
 
D has a couple of cool things though, I'd be lying if I didn't think that.
 
I guess it has sort of almost a similar goal to D.
 
2:31 AM
Like ranges and I guess the mixin thing is neato.
 
Of course D is cool. Everyone wants at least some of the D.
 
I liked the small bit of D I started learning a lot.
 
Yeah, that is pretty much my experience
 
Oh and um, the other cool thing is probably the pure specifier which I wouldn't mind in C++
I think that's it.
 
Rust has the pure specifier.
I think.
 
2:33 AM
C++ really only needs a couple of (big) things to make it not suck at all for me, but that's just my opinion.
 
That is what my icky Rust looks like, but it was kind of interesting to write
 
looks weird
 
Its pointer behaviour is super confusing, but I guess manageable and it has its reasons.
 
Looks sort of interesting.
 
Things can’t be null/None/Nothing/whatever by default.
A lot of checks are static. Like D I suppose?
C interop is really easy.
The standard library is pretty useful.
Things are not mutable by default, most things can be an expression, and there’s pattern matching
Less parentheses, which is nice, but not too few (like Ruby et. al.)
 
2:40 AM
Google, I don't want to use my real name, get it through your head :\
Does this look ok to you?
 
charcodepoint c, b, a = 0x0001F34C;
	utf8 arf;
	Furrovine::byte banana [] = { 0xF0, 0x9F, 0x8D, 0x8C };
	arf.DecodeOneBytes( banana, b );
	assert( a == b );
	arf.ReverseDecodeOneBytes( banana + 4, c );
	assert( a == c );
@R.MartinhoFernandes ^ It works!
Now I need to implement it for UTF16 and UTF32
 
@Pawnguy7 Yeah, it's coming along pretty well.
 
It is, it is. anyway, I notice, with landscapes that have transparency, they a bit different while they transition.
Like.
While it transitions, it is lighter than it is normally. See what I mean?
 
The background is white.
 
The lightning is going to disappear from the sky, right?
 
2:47 AM
When you turn down the alpha, the white background filters into the image.
You're better off clearing to black. It's a more netrual color that won't poison your transition stages.
 
@minitech nope
 
What are you making?
 
Screensaver.
the blocks are entirely static, if that makes sense.
It is like this. It generates them. Then, they scroll by. then, it blends into the next landscape.
I feel like you are dissapointed :D
 
@Pawnguy7 Better than my screensaver of a crappy solar system with four planets that you could zoom in and out of.
I kind of just made it anyway and then found out it worked in place of a screensaver, despite not doing anything it's supposed to.
 
I like my screensaver.
It’s a black screen
 
2:54 AM
I don't even know what mine is.
I turn the screen off.
15.4 or something watts saved.
 
(I mean I turn the screen off.)
 
@minitech You never know with programmers.
 
(Well, does slock count?)
 
@minitech Sure :)
 
I love slock. The screen turns blue when you type. If you get your password wrong, there is no timeout
 
2:58 AM
@minitech I made my own little lock thing at school for when I stepped away from the computer for a few seconds.
 
Windows?
 
I just discovered, if I run the screensaver windowed, my recording FPS doesn't suck as much - like, 30.
 
Once I panicked after forgetting about pictures and found my VP playing around with it when I came back.
@minitech Yeah, XP.
I think it might be 7 now, but I'm gone anyway.
 
Hey, I actually did one of those too! It was because of that bug that only works up to Windows XP
Taking a screenshot didn’t include windows with opacity < 1
 
@minitech Mine basically just blocked all input. It didn't stop ctrl alt delete.
 
2:59 AM
So I did this blurry one
 

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