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4:00 PM
Luke 22:36
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
haha
BibViz is great
 
@Pawnguy7 yeah, I bound the arrow keys
give it a try
 
@DeadMG you fail
@Borgleader so do you
 
eh
as if I give a shit who Carmack works for
 
@melak47 a window opens, then it seems to crash
 
@Pawnguy7 oh...6 years old you said? it probably doesn't have DX11, huh :/
 
4:03 PM
Probably not. I only get GL 2.1
I guess we can test using what I have, though.
Want a .exe, or the project?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't know what you're on about, not that i care much
 
@Pawnguy7 depends, is the project easy to build? if not, I'll take an .exe first :p
 
Um... just uses SFML statically. VS. Not sure how one would rate that.
 
Nevermind. Apparently I went dynamic this time.
 
4:06 PM
Oh gawd.
 
user1804599
> live video
 
user1804599
So not for programmers. :P
 
lol
 
Title...
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18362339/thread-is-already-running-when-it-is-already-stopped
 
user1804599
if
    if
        while
            if
                if
 
4:10 PM
@melak47 here you go
.exe with the DLLs.
 
@Pawnguy7 still slow. hmm
 
@MartinJames I just...
 
@melak47 my version is slow?
 
@Pawnguy7 yep
 
Why is "no code" under "off-topic"
 
4:14 PM
Hopefully that means it can be made faster, then.
 
@DeadMG Oh, I thought the comments were sufficient :) — Little Child 14 secs ago
:laffo:
JAVA programmers
 
Be kind of awkward if the problem wasn't the algorithm, but the part around it.
 
@DeadMG Ugh, live video.
I have better things to do than have my time managed for me by some prick in Murika.
 
@Pawnguy7 measure the amount of time the light calculation takes to be sure?
 
Good idea.
 
4:17 PM
@CatPlusPlus The topic defines what sort of questions can and cannot be asked here. If something is off-topic, it violates those constraints. What is there not to get?
The view that "topic" must be limited to some arcane list of jobs, industries, languages, or whatever is short-sighted.
 
Very intuitive, yes.
 
It is. "Write my code" is not a feature of this site, therefore "write my code please" does not fulfill the site's topic criterion. The topic is fixing code that is provided, or something like that.
 
user1804599
Is there a shorter/more elegant alternative to echo /**/*.mp3 | xargs printf "%s\n"?
 
Makes as much sense as OSX UI.
 
4:19 PM
Sudden inexplicable craving for nougat... — Lightness Races in Orbit 40 secs ago
 
user1804599
xD
 
btw why is google obsessed with surf-boying the English language? "hang-outs" "help outs"
 
Seconds.
Note it is, um...
Not entirely clean.
 
also seconds :/
on a 25x25 field with light intensity of 20
 
That is for your project?
 
4:26 PM
yea
 
@Pawnguy7 That's the same screen.
 
Oops.
I wish links that say "copy this link" did what they said.
 
will I have to build SFML? :E
 
Um.
 
oh, SFML has prebuilt stuff for 2012
 
4:29 PM
Now, yes.
Not when I had to do it :D
 
I divide by 1e8, to get the average run-time. So EACH call took 24 nanoseconds. Also, shouldn't the -O0 option prevent gcc from doing ANY optimizing? — Zane Beckwith 1 min ago
^^ AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Ohoho average.
 
okay, got it to run
 
~performance~ tag is funny, I don't know why you hang around it so much.
 
Is it slow?
 
4:34 PM
yep :/
 
Hrm. The part in question is in LightCalculator.cpp.
I had used sf::Clock to measure.
 
Use a profiler.
 
@Pawnguy7 alright..
VS' profiler says you spend 75% of the time in recursiveLightCalculation doing your isSolid check
optimize that :p
 
@Mysticial I love the combination of and -O0.
 
OK, in the C and C++ tags madness competition, C++ wins today with:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18362940/continue-instead-of-return-inside-a-function-in-c
 
4:40 PM
Can I comment "read a c++ book" ? -.-;
 
Even if a troll, it's still a good laugh:)
 
posted on August 21, 2013 by Scott Meyers

The pepped-up marketing folks at Addison-Wesley recently sent me this, which I am dutifully passing on: Please feel free to point folks to informit.com/cplusplus which features a Buy 1 Save 30% | Buy 2 or More Save 40% discount code for all C++ titles.  Note, while only the most recent C++ titles are featured on the landing page, the discount code applies to ALL titles (there is a

2
 
Yes it does: #define continue return - runs and hides...Mysticial 16 secs ago
^^ hehe
 
@Pawnguy7 err...have you tried compiling in release mode? :)
I think the vector bounds checking is slowing you down :p
 
4:43 PM
I thought vector didn't do bound checks with operator[]?
Anyway, I changes isSolid to only contain return solid[size.y * x + y];. Same speed. So you might be right.
 
wel, I dunno. but operator[] on the vector is what's taking all your time
(in debug)
in release mode, there's about a 1 fps drop while the light source is moving
although there is a random slowdown followed by the application exiting after a while.
 
Ah. So much faster now.
I guess I just made you waste a lot of time. Sorry.
 
> Static properties cannot be accessed through the object using the arrow operator ->.
oh, fuck you PHP
 
@Pawnguy7 :p
 
Random slowdown?
 
4:48 PM
well...your thing runs out of memory, it seems. :p
 
@Mysticial WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF
 
Hrm. I wasn't aware there was any memory allocated by my specifically.
Although.
If I have an object, and assigned it to another, what happens to the old one?
Could it somehow cause the vectors to not be released?
 
stackoverflow.jpg
 
Anyway. Are you supposed to use Debug mode after you notice a bug and you are trying to find it?
 
well yes and no
you generally switch
depending on the situation and application
there are some applications that become so slow (such as games) that they're untestable in debug mode for general usage
 
4:55 PM
tag:performance, where every benchmark is made up and timings don't matter.
 
but most of the time you'll want a mode (IIRC that includes Debug) that does not optimize code as well, because it reduces compile times and as such development times
 
Ah.
 
Some bugs only occur in optimised builds.
That's fun to debug.
 
I think the last time I used Release mode, I was wondering why some test code wasn't being hit, then I realized it got optimized out.
 
Has it been about 7 hours 42 minutes since you rebooted your computer? — Howard Hinnant 44 mins ago
hehe
 
4:58 PM
@nightcracker It's more about optimised builds being pain to debug, not compilation speed.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
C++ compilation is slow as fuck regardless.
 
Oh hey, turns out Enemy Within is an expansion pack for Enemy Unknown.
 
I am guessing Express doesn't have the profiler?
 
@Pawnguy7 Only Ultimate does, IIRC.
 
4:59 PM
Stay tuned for third instalment in the series, Enemy Without.
 
@Pawnguy7 learn2mooch off msdnaa :p
 
@EtiennedeMartel Pro does.
 
VS is not the only profiler in existence.
 
Yes. I am looking for one now.
 
Real men buy a VTune license.
 
5:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus But it's the best!
(Disclaimer: I have no idea)
 
(Since I'm not a real man, I just ask my employer to do it)
 
@EtiennedeMartel s/Real/Rich/
 
Well, it's not the worst.
 
I'm a real boy.
 
Code Analyst is free.
 
5:01 PM
So is Very Sleepy although im not entirely sure how good it is
 
There's also gprof.
 
hey you know what, after I turned the page file back on, windows stopped giving me this thing ^_^
 
But that's probably tooadvancedforyou
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, you're a robot.
 
I'm the real voice in your head
2
 
5:03 PM
hihi
 
Man, "No Quarter" is such a great song.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh certainly. But so is many of zeppelin's songs
 
Indeed.
 
and if you're listening to the Tool version, they are badass too, so it's an acceptable cover.
 
5:12 PM
Actually, I think I prefer the Tool cover.
 
It's one of my favorites
that, and going to california\
@EtiennedeMartel me too, one of the few songs in which that is the case. Especially since I love Zeppelin so much.
 
Probably because Keenan sings better than Plant.
 
@EtiennedeMartel The feeling I get from the song is much more dark when tool performs it.
 
@Reimeus: Because programmers never make any mistakes and always write the most optimal code. — tskuzzy Jul 17 '12 at 20:10
^^ lol
 
404 NOT FOUND. That was all that was on the page.
 
5:19 PM
what page
 
I hate dead links on the first page of search results :\
 
5:37 PM
hmmm
if I do QNaN == 5 in C++, what is the result?
 
@DeadMG False, I guess.
 
user784668
@DeadMG false, obviously.
 
user784668
NaN == _ = False
 
yeah
that's what I thought.
LLVM just decided to confuse me by offering a version where it's true.
 
user784668
lol
 
user784668
5:44 PM
Where?
 
why the fuck didn't IEEE simply spec it so that all values were totally ordered.
 
Lol
When I told STL about my dreams for making a cl.exe-alike for g++ and clang++, he told me
 
Wait, never mind, misread your sentence.
 
> g++ arguments 2>&1 | sed -re "s/^.*$/fatal error C1001: An internal error has occurred in the compiler./"
 
5:53 PM
lol
 
it looks like your links are wrong
 
I'm doing something obvious, aren't I...
 
it doesnt actually take us to the comments
 
Oh, they got deleted.
Figures
Some Java person was complaining that operator overloading and lambda expressions only lead to bad coding practices.
 
LOL
 
5:55 PM
Lambdas do?
 
@chris dafuq
 
Yet another reason to hate JAVA programmers
 
They must be the only person not excited for Java 8.
 
Did he have any examples?
 
Or only person who presumably likes Java at least.
@Chemistpp Nah, it was just banter.
 
5:56 PM
Java 8 has operator overloading and lambdas?
 
@Mysticial I thought Java was getting lambdas.
> Project Lambda is part of the upcoming Java SE 8 release.
 
How is that going to be possible for Java?
 
Yeah, so Java 8 was a good guess.
 
@Mysticial Java 8 has operator overloading? I thought they didn't need that...
 
How does C++11 handle closures that result from lambdas? What if the variable is on the stack and dies? Is that just UB?
 
5:57 PM
The point is to eliminate those terrible callback classes.
 
@Mysticial If you referenced it, yes- just like any other reference to a variable on the stack which went out of scope.
 
In C#, that variable is held internally. (pulled off the stack into some external memory)
 
Evening lads
 
user784668
@chris And replace them with those terrible callback classes that lambdas are?
 
@Mysticial No garbage collection makes this rather difficult to implement as a language feature.
 
5:58 PM
> US Gov To Issue Secure Online IDs
Ahahaha
This sounds so funny.
 
@Fanael At least they don't clutter up the code so much. I hated using those. I can't remember what they're called.
Even AS has anonymous functions.
Maybe the term was just anonymous class.
 
@DeadMG So C++ closures requires that everything you reference needs to stay alive for as long as the closure lives?
 
@Mysticial Yes.
 
ok
 
6:00 PM
@Mysticial Just like a normal reference- as long as you're going to access that reference, then the object on the other end needs to stay alive.
 
Only const references prolong lifetimes, and only for local things.
Well, probably only temporaries.
 
pretty sure that only applies to temps
 
yeah, it's pretty much only temporaries.
 
@DeadMG I just wanted to make sure that everything you "use" that's declared outside the closure is done by reference rather than by value. But your point is correct that C++ can't possibly copy anything into some local storage since there's nothing to clean it up.
 
@Mysticial Well, you can't "use" anything without telling the lambda how to handle it. You can ask the lambda to copy (or move in C++14) it into the lambda object itself if you want to.
 
6:02 PM
So the entire lambda/closure probably just compiles into static function pointer that takes the parameters you pass in.
 
Something about this code just doesn't seem quite right...
1
A: Convert a function from Java to C++ which contains "Iterator"

Dave Doknjaspublic: virtual Nod *searchDepth(Nod *nod, int limit) { Nod *rez; std::vector<Nod*> newsuccesori = succesori(nod); for (std::vector<Nod*>::const_iterator it = newsuccesori.begin(); it != newsuccesori.end(); ++it) { rez = searchDepth(*it, limit); if (rez != nullptr...

 
@DeadMG Ah. I'm coming from 2 months of C# async callback experience.
 
@Mysticial Nope, it's a function object. The lambda has to hold references or copies if you request.
only captureless lambdas can be function pointers.
 
@Mysticial It's one of the few implementation details the standard requires: a functor.
 
@DeadMG I'm saying that anything you "capture", is probably internally implemented as extra parameters to the function.
 
user784668
6:03 PM
@Mysticial Lambdas are not SIMD, so they're meh.
 
@Mysticial Just this, since the lambda's operator() is of course a member.
hence why the lambda class has to store the captures.
 
@DeadMG Are they even allowed to be function pointers, or just be converted to them?
 
@chris Converted to.
 
user784668
@chris No, they're always classes.
 
I declare @chris' and @Mysticial's avatars to be too similar.
 
6:05 PM
@CatPlusPlus second
 
@CatPlusPlus third
 
user784668
I declare @CatPlusPlus, @Chemistpp and @DeadMG to be blind.
 
@DeadMG In other words, I wasn't wrong. Eventually it gets compiled down to a function pointer where the captures are passed in as separate parameters. (either individually, or as a compiler-generated aggregate)
 
@CatPlusPlus I declare yours and @DeadMG's too similar.
 
You now might fight to death to see who needs to change theirs.
@Fanael Yes.
 
6:05 PM
@Mysticial No more or less than any other class. But it must be a compiler-generated aggregate. Because a class can't be more than one object and the signature of the function must match. Also, it's a member function, no non-member function pointers involved.
look, the only model of lambdas permitted by Standard is where they are converted to a class containing the captures as members with member operator(). All other models are, by definition, incorrect.
 
@DeadMG The only difference between a member and a non-member function pointer is the this as an extra implicit parameter. So I take it that the compiler just slaps all the captures into the this object?
 
user784668
@Mysticial So std::vector<int> is a function pointer where the captures are passed in as separate parameters?
 
@Mysticial Yep.
@Fanael That doesn't even make sense.
 
user784668
Yes.
 
It's a closure. Who cares how compiler represents it.
Low-level savages.
 
6:10 PM
@Mysticial Also, I'm pretty sure that the Standard does not define the difference between MFPs and FPs. There's lots of awkward stuff in there like this pointer adjustments for derived class MFPs. There's a reason why sizeof(MFP) != sizeof(void(*)()).
 
user784668
@Mysticial Uhm, big fucking NO. There's a lot of difference between a member and non-member function pointers, see codeproject.com/Articles/7150/… for the gory details.
 
@Fanael Oh really? Then why when I compile a static function and a member function (with identical parameters) in LLVM, the only difference is an extra parameter to the this object?
 
user784668
@Mysticial Because you're not even dealing with pointers in that case?
 
@Mysticial Firstly, that's not a member function pointer. It is an implementation detail and a pointer to that function could not be used as a C++ Standard MFP. And secondly, that's an Itanium ABI-specific implementation detail. Other ABIs or compilers may well implement it in some other way.
 
user784668
@Mysticial Seriously, try reading the section "Implementations of Member Function Pointers" of that article.
 
6:18 PM
@DeadMG I'm talking mostly about x86 and such. Calling conventions aside, the only difference I see (from LLVM) between a static function and a member function is an extra parameter.
 
user784668
@Mysticial Itanium ABI has nothing to do with Itanium. Hell, almost all non-MSVC compilers on x86 follow it.
 
@Mysticial A pointer to that function is not a member function pointer.
also, Itanium ABI is the generic C++ ABI used for all platforms that don't have a more specific ABI, so it covers x86 and x64 too (but not ARM, I believe)
 
user784668
@DeadMG Ya, ARM has its own ABI.
 
but there is nothing forcing any compiler to follow Itanium and they could implement it however the hell they want.
 
@DeadMG I think we probably have slightly different definitions for "function pointer". My view of it in at the implementation level, not the language level. For example, the vtable must contain member function pointers. When I compare those to the normal functions (in LLVM), the only difference I see is the extra "this" parameter.
 
6:22 PM
@Mysticial Well, you're right, which is that we are talking about C++ and not some random implementation, so the vtable doesn't even exist as a concept. The Standard clearly defines what an MFP is. Try taking the size of a member function pointer in Clang and you will discover that it is not 4.
the "Closures-as-a-class" thing is not a random implementation or an implementation detail; it is defined by Standard.
 
user784668
@Mysticial Here, takes this: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/… and see that member function pointers are a mess.
 
user784668
The comment is the IR on my machine, the output is the IR on Coliru.
 
Coliru has Clang?
 
user784668
Yes.
 
When did this happen?
 
6:25 PM
It had it from the start.
 
You just have to change the command line option.
 
@Fanael We already established that we were talking about different things. I wasn't talking about the C++ "member function pointer" which you guys were. I was talking about what a member function looks like in the vast majority of implementations. (as in, just another function with a this parameter. And "pointer", because you call it by pointer - especially from vtable access)
 
Dang it, I thought it only had GCC forever.
 
Well, not start, SC did command line later I think.
 
That was one of the reasons I liked LWS better initially.
 
6:26 PM
It also has Mono and some other stuff.
 
user784668
@Mysticial Then why did you write "The only difference between a member and a non-member function pointer is the this as an extra implicit parameter."
 
@Fanael Okay, let's clear this up. I'm talking about actual implementations. A function starts at some address in memory. It takes parameters. When you call the function, you jump to that address and blah. That address is the "function pointer". You can jump directly do it, call 0xdeadbeaf. Or you can call it as a function pointer, call rax.
The difference between a static and a member function is that a member function takes an extra parameter to this.
 
> Hello from GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Clang 3.4 (trunk 184460) !
Yay, it works.
 
user784668
@Mysticial So, uh, why not call it, say, function address, which is impossible to confuse with pointers, which happen to have very specific meaning in C++?
 
Wait, does the version of Clang on Coliru have any C++1y features (like GCC's -std=c++1y option)?
 
6:32 PM
@Fanael Well, I'm not the pedantic kind of person. I tend to mix similar terms up. If that's a problem for you.
 
user784668
@chris Try it and see.
 
user784668
@Mysticial It's not about being pedantic, it's about being clear.
 
Well, it recognizes the option. Time to go doc hunting.
Things seem to be working.
Cool, more C++1y support.
 
Hm.. in Delphi, such things are usually of 'TNotifyEvent' class which, as you would expect, is two pointers.
 
@chris Coliru's version is 3.4SVN, and you can see here for their status.
 
6:40 PM
@DeadMG I just did and tried most of them, but thanks :)
 
Xeo
Wheee~
 
@Xeo Hello :)
 
@DeadMG So, ti seems like a clang/g++ engine for VS can be written in (mostly) C#.
This should cut development time considerably.
Apparently, making a Debugging Engine is VASTLY easier than making something that creates PDB files to play nice with the existing debugging engine.
 
Xeo
@sbi Hey, why am I being excluded?
 
@Xeo こんにちは!
 
Xeo
6:46 PM
It's evening for me
So こんばんは would be a better fit.
 
Anybody want to help me come up with an analogy?
 
@ThePhD Well, if you have intellisense and debugging all sewn up, then it sounds like an almost complete replacement for cl.
assuming you can find Clang-friendly Windows API headers.
 
and a stdlib that supports all the C++11 features on Windows.
 
MinGW's w32api should work just fine on Clang.
 
6:49 PM
MinGW doesn't support all the things, if I recall correctly.
 
I'm pretty sure there are clang builds out there shipping with mingw's stdlib. i guess thats a start
 
and also my experience is that there's a few places where they don't play well together.
 
The goal is to make GCC work. Clang is a side effect, since it has no dedicated movement that's consistently producing reliable Windows builds.
 
Since it's the only other WinSDK implementation apart from Microsoft's, you don't really have a choice.
Unless WINE has their own, but I doubt it.
 
@DeadMG Seth Carnegie managed to get it to work on Windows.
 
6:50 PM
@ThePhD Probably because a Clang windows build is nothing special and works fine with Windows.
 
Though I'm not sure how much of it is officially done yet.
 
What analogy?
 
Anyway, I was trying to explain why it is bad to do less with inefficient things rather than making them efficient.
For example.
 
@Mysticial I am also using Clang with libstdc++ on Windows, but it's not really the same thing because for example, you can't use above 4.6.3 because some ABI issue.
 
@DeadMG Clang is one thing, but I still need to be able to #include <> stuff and not watch the world go to hell. :c
 
6:51 PM
If, due to a bad sorting algorithm, you attempted to sort less, rather than just get a better sorting algorithm.
 
the best sorting algorithm is quantum bogosort
O(1) time for any list
 
@ThePhD How would using Clang make it go to hell?
 
For some reason I was thinking of boats with holes, but I have no idea where that was going.
 
@DeadMG #include <windows.h> ?
 
well, maybe O(n)
 
6:52 PM
@ThePhD Works with Wide. All you have to do is set the appropriate include paths.
 
Can I link in libraries correctly?
 
@ThePhD Yes.
 
Huh.
Now that I thinka bout it, I'm not sure where I got the impression that Clang wouldn't play nice with Windows...
 
@StephenLin depends if you are in the right universe
 
the stdlib is the real issue, because ABI issue so 4.6.3 only
I might look into compiling say 4.8 with Clang.
 
6:54 PM
otherwise it doesn't even matter, because you're dead
 
Well, yeah, I kind of need a stdlib.
If I can't run my code what's the point. ._.
 
"the compiler macro __INTELLISENSE__, which is only defined when using the IntelliSense compiler. You can use this macro to guard code the IntelliSense compiler does not understand, or use it to toggle between the build and IntelliSense compiler." blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2011/03/29/10146895.aspx
 
4.6.3 is OK, but it's not as many features as MSVC's stdlib IIRC
 
A wild psyduck appear...
Wow, why didn't I think of that joke before?
 
> /update_comments_count 200 OK 10.03s
 
6:56 PM
I'm looking to use rubenvb's MinGW 4.8, VisualGCC (Debugging Engine + Compiler Driver for g++.exe & friends), and then compile using only MinGW and its related things
 
And all thanks to Facebook.
 
@CatPlusPlus Seems like... a long time to update numbers?
 
@Jefffrey any ideas?
 
@ThePhD It needs to do an FQL query.
 
@Pawnguy7 Sorry, didn't follow. Let me take a re read of the transcript
 
6:57 PM
I just hope it works.
Yaay it does.
 
Ah.
 
question. To be a 3D animator, how much experience do you need in programming?
 
Not... a lot?
 
Doesn't matter, because you're gonna change profession next week anyway.
 
You might have to learn various scripting languages (MAXScript or whatever), but... even then.
 
6:58 PM
@Pawnguy7 I don't fully understand. Sort less in comparison to what?
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh right, I forgot to look at the name of the person asking. :3c
 
lol
@Crowz start with 2D and see if you like it
 
damn. My professor told me that you have to know a LOT of programming to do 3D modeling
 
Xeo
:D
 
you got that from gamescom?
 
Xeo
6:59 PM
ya
 
I see what you did there :P
 

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