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12:00 AM
@CatPlusPlus Oh yeah, esp. when trying to trace some UB.
 
@CatPlusPlus /d2Zi or something like that
 
The Bin knows all.
 
Flag that makes it easier to debug optimized code.
 
Sorry, was I not supposed to post that here?
 
12:06 AM
@Asad Not at this time of night, no. Post an SO question. There are sober developers in there.
 
there are sober people here too, we just don't care
 
I've posted one, but it's kind of handwavey and broad at this stage, which sort of makes it unsuitable for an SO question.
 
@Asad You know when work is getting you down, and you leave the office to sit on the sofas by the coffee machine and chat to other pissed-off workers about anything except work? That's what it's like in here.
 
@DeadMG Yes, I saw that in the newbie hints -> best practices section, but I mostly thought it would just get ignored if someone didn't answer. Was worth a shot I guess.
@MartinJames I see.
 
@Asad If you also posted a question then now I'm extra pissed off.
 
12:10 AM
@DeadMG Why is that?
 
because
 
@Asad Because it makes it spam.
 
you just came here because your question wasn't getting enough attention, and spammed your problem in here.
 
@DeadMG My question is about an entirely different approach using managed code. The question I'm asking here is about the same problem, but an alternate approach (Win32 API)
 
that's kinda a pity, cause I just went and found it and downvoted it
ah well
close enough.
 
12:12 AM
@Asad You're flogging a dead dog.
 
@MartinJames Yes, I'm getting that feeling.
 
@Asad It's the wrong time of the month/night for the puppy, (DeadMG).
 
@DeadMG Was there anything in particular that was wrong with the question or was this because I "spammed" your chatroom?
 
I usually downvote people who dump their questions in the chat
I just usually don't have to search for it- they provide a helpful link!
 
0
Q: How to build Node.js as a static library or dynamic library?

user1998981I'm wondering how to build Node as a library so that inside my own c/c++ program I could do sth like : include "node.h" and then call this method : int Start(int argc, char *argv[]).

I'm confused, I always asssumed Node.js was... well javascript only
 
12:17 AM
Well, I didn't link to it here because it was a different question (albeit about the same problem).
Also, it doesn't have anything to do with C++.
 
I would recommend that you cut your losses, because I'm playing Starcraft on the other screen and am never going to un-downvote you
 
Alright, cool. Thanks for the help.
 
@DeadMG Why's your website down ? codepuppy.co.uk/cpptuts/index.aspx
 
@Borgleader Node is JS environment.
It's V8 + stuff.
 
im wondering how to write a q so that inside stack overflow i could do sth like : 'help me plz' and then get my codez plz hep — Lightness Races in Orbit 3 mins ago
@CatPlusPlus it's "node.js". I hate people calling it "node". they can all fuck right off.
 
12:27 AM
I don't like Node.
 
and yeah I have no idea what the C++ part is about
nonsense most likely
 
I'm at loss of words.
 
@MrP What's the trouble? Just seed the PRNG with constant value.
 
@HamZa Er, it broke.
 
Like, generate numbers?
 
12:31 AM
I'm fairly binning to all.
 
I'm still laughing at the deterministic random requirement.
 
er, isn't that actually pretty common?
 
thought the same thing, then I realised maybe it is generating random variables but with deterministic attribute: i.e. mean is constant with a arge enough set
 
I think I need to write transient_vector now...
e.g. a vector that doesn't own its own storage.
 
And you want to expand it, how?
Also ugh
 
12:36 AM
@ThePhD but why would you want to do that?
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 Because in many cases I need a vector-alike interface for a buffer, but I can't do make_vector( storage, and_don't_copy_this_storage_just_use_it );
So really what I'm after is vector_view, since I already have buffer_view.
 
@MrP That's the definition of PRNG
 
vector_view is just buffer_view but with a current pointer (or a len std::size_t)
 
We call that pseudo-random, not deterministic.
Deterministic and stochastic/random is two opposite sides of one stick, which is why deterministic random sounds funny and ridiculous.
 
@MrP lol am I the only one laughing at this? => point det_funct (seed);
 
12:41 AM
With good PRNG you can't predict next outputs just by observing earlier ones.
@MrP As in, what?
You want to generate numbers.
Any PRNG can do that.
 
maybe you should change your major to something like: arts?
 
I don't have that much patience for basics, so you might want to tell WHAT already.
 
@MrP If you want your "random" generated values to be the same every program run, just seed it with constant value.
 
@MrP I think it is a bit too obvious, if I explain it, I would be insulting the intelligence of this lounge
 
That's distribution property rather than generator one.
If you want density around a point, then I guess normal distribution on both axes should be Good Enough(tm).
But you can go through a list and pick one, whatever. C++ comes with several distribution implementations.
 
12:46 AM
@CatPlusPlus I think that biases to a square, or something.
 
if same seed generate the same variable then it is not random at all. since it is not random it must have some rules to match an input (seed) and the output (variable). All you need to do is write that function
 
I don't know, not giving this much thought.
 
Easier in polar coordinates: Normal distribution the radius around 0, then uniform distr. for the angle.
 
@Rapptz Cool.
 
12:48 AM
@MrP you are truly retarded
you can always generate a few 'random' variables, and periodically calculate the next one as 'compensating' variable
so to achieve the said distribution
easiest would be 1 random 1 compensating
that is very hard isn't it?
 
@MrP Sorry, was just going off of Cat's idea.
Still unclear what you want. Do you care about actual locality of the generated points? Or do you only care you can choose 0%-100% of them according to some number?
 
Sorry for the delay, I was playing Starcraft 2.
I am already online
but bear in mind it's 2am here and I intend to get some more sleep than last night
oops
 
MrP
Where did my message go?
 
I binned it
 
MrP
I was writing to GManNickG
 
12:56 AM
27 secs ago, by DeadMG
I binned it
 
MrP
@GmanNickG did you see the message?
 
@MrP The Bin Knows All.
But yes.
I still find what you want unclear. "I am saying that the locality is irrelevant -- uniform distribution across each axis with respect to a given point" How can locality be irrelevant if you care about axis?
 
MrP
maybe i am unclear by the definition of the word
what I mean is that I don't want it to cluster around any particular spot
purely random, anywhere in the grid
 
Then uh, uniform distribution?
 
Ok.
 
MrP
1:00 AM
yes, as I said earlier, uniform
nothing fancy
 
Then just take all your points, stick them in a collection, shuffle the collection, then pop off however many points you need.
 
MrP
the question i am asking is the same as "how to choose n (distinct) points from the range 1 to L which follow a uniform distribution"
is there a deterministic shuffle algorithm?
 
Use the same PRNG.
 
MrP
the crux of this entire matter is the deterministic nature of the choices
 
@MrP ...why deterministic? I thought you said random. If you seed with the same number, you get the same random numbers.
 
MrP
1:01 AM
pseudo-random
i am trying to find an algorithm
 
std::shuffle.
 
MrP
that is a built-in standaard method
 
Yes.
 
MrP
i am asking for general algorithm, works in any language, works on paper
deterministic algorithm based on a seed
for example en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum_Blum_Shub but this doesn't work for my purposes
 
Because..?
 
1:03 AM
@MrP Go look at how std::shuffle works. But to save you the time:
The Fisher–Yates shuffle (named after Ronald Fisher and Frank Yates), also known as the Knuth shuffle (after Donald Knuth), is an algorithm for generating a random permutation of a finite set—in plain terms, for randomly shuffling the set. A variant of the Fisher–Yates shuffle, known as Sattolo's algorithm, may be used to generate random cycles of length n instead. Properly implemented, the Fisher–Yates shuffle is unbiased, so that every permutation is equally likely. The modern version of the algorithm is also rather efficient, requiring only time proportional to the number of items bei...
 
MrP
@CatPlusPlus Because you can't easily control how many unique points are generated, especially if the period is too small
you end up with lots of repeated values in a loop and you can't control the density
 
@MrP You're mixing things up! A random number generator is for generating random numbers, a shuffling algorithm uses a RNG to shuffle.
 
MrP
I am not asking for a RNG
aghhh. I feel like people are not understanding what I am asking
I am not looking for something that uses random()
deterministic approach, could be done on paper
 
@MrP Makes no sense. RNGs can be done on paper.
 
Mersenne Twister has a period of 2^19937.
 
1:05 AM
@MrP What does doing things on paper have to do with anything?
 
MrP
i tried mersenne twister, it was quite complicated and did no generate uniformly
 
PRNG doesn't do distribution.
 
MrP
what is the difference between RNG and PRNG then?
 
Same. I'm using RNG as a shortcut to PRNG.
 
MrP
it's possible i am mixing up terms but what i am asking for is not hard to understand
 
1:06 AM
I assume the P is implicit.
 
True RNG is not defineable on paper.
 
MrP
BBS is short and easy to describe but you cannot control density easily
 
Well, "let x be completely random" I guess.
 
MrP
so something "like" BBS that has density control
could be done if there was a deterministic shuffle
 
@CatPlusPlus Sure it is. 1) Get piece of paper. 2) Wait arbitrarily long for quantum fluctuations to cause paper to have written number.
 
MrP
1:07 AM
heh no need for quantum scramblers here
 
You guys are still talking about this? Damn... I had time to do my FOTW in League of Legends...
 
1 min ago, by Cat Plus Plus
PRNG doesn't do distribution.
 
@MrP: How about this: what's the big picture problem you're trying to solve?
 
MrP
so there is no way to deterministically choose N points from a line of 1 to L?
 
1:08 AM
To make distributed values, you feed off PRNG to ensure distribution.
 
@MrP I already told you a way.
 
It's separation of concerns.
 
MrP
@GManNickG You mentioned scramble but I don't see any scrambling algorithms on Google
 
@MrP Take all your points, put them in a collection, then take them out one at a time, until you have N results.
@MrP I pasted the Wikipedia entry in the chat.
 
I've just started learning C++ and can I ask a question here
 
1:09 AM
The Fisher–Yates shuffle (named after Ronald Fisher and Frank Yates), also known as the Knuth shuffle (after Donald Knuth), is an algorithm for generating a random permutation of a finite set—in plain terms, for randomly shuffling the set. A variant of the Fisher–Yates shuffle, known as Sattolo's algorithm, may be used to generate random cycles of length n instead. Properly implemented, the Fisher–Yates shuffle is unbiased, so that every permutation is equally likely. The modern version of the algorithm is also rather efficient, requiring only time proportional to the number of items bei...
@Derek朕會功夫 @DeadMG Get ready.
 
@Derek朕會功夫 It's getting hot here. Run away.
 
Now I'm tempted to bin everything.
 
MrP
"Pick a random number k between one and the number of unstruck numbers remaining (inclusive)."
^again I am not looking for something that uses random()!
i am not trying to be rude but I have said this many times
 
Jesus.
 
@MrP "Pick random number...but don't want random!"
Fucking bin it all. It makes no sense.
 
MrP
1:10 AM
deterministic
 
@MrP So not random?
 
MrP
look at BBS algorithm, it does not rely on a random()
but it is a RNG
 
:cripes:
 
MrP
does this make sense
 
@MrP You make no sense
 
1:10 AM
No.
 
@MrP The fuck is "random()".
 
MrP
random() = "pick a random number between 1 and k"
the whole point of this is deterministically generating the values
fisher yates algorithm calls for a random()
 
Remind me this has to be determinitic?
 
Well then generate them once and write them down.
 
@MrP No. Just no.
 
1:11 AM
Here, you got deterministic way of generating numbers
Reading them off piece of paper.
 
MrP
I can't tell if I am being trolled or not. I am not sure what is so hard to understand here.
 
I could be wrong, but to me deterministic randomness sounds like an oxymoron
 
I already told him that two fucking hours ago.
 
then start using the freaking compensating factor, seriously it is one thing to be ignorant and another to not able to learn
 
MrP
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum_Blum_Shub note the lack of any random() calls
 
1:12 AM
@MrP If you mean rand() in C++, then yes, it's "deterministic". Look up linear cogruential generator.
 
@MrP If a room full of fairly smart people isn't understanding something, it's probably your explanation. (Yes I'm aware I'm calling myself smart.)
 
MrP
the whole point is writing my own variant of random()
 
Okay,.
 
@GManNickG Worse, you're calling me smart.
 
MrP
hence deterministic
 
1:13 AM
@milleniumbug rand() is not specified to be a linear congruential generator.
 
@MrP: So you're trying to write a random number generator?
 
MrP
picking n unique points from a list of 1 to L
 
Here's a deterministic way: 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., n.
 
MrP
the same as if i took a list of 1 to L, scrambled it randomly, picked N elements from the top
the "Scramble it randomly" would be the deterministic algorithm
seeded by some arbitrary thing like in this case, grid size
say N
 
inb4 the puppy bins the last hour of conversation
 
1:14 AM
@DeadMG Well, of course it's not defined. But it is implemented so on my machine.
 
that's irrelevant.
 
I know. Just saying how it can be implemented though
 
which is irrelevant.
 
Irrelevant to C++ language, yes.
 
I'm putting a moratorium on random number generators.
 
MrP
1:15 AM
It's not an easy question to answer which is why I suspect there have been many non-answers in this chat discussion
 
It's not a discussion, it's us getting a :psyduck: headache.
Well, at least me.
 
Wait is he calling us dumb now?
 
@MrP Have you read the newbie hints? Relevant fragment: "don't expect us to answer your questions."
 
MrP
@Borgleader I am saying nobody in here understood the question even though I used correct terminology
 
the problem is that whenever someone make a suggestion, the person would be saying 'my method is still not working' or 'it is damn hard'.
 
MrP
1:17 AM
@Telkitty猫咪咪 No valid suggestions have been made yet
 
how is that not valid?
 
MrP
"use a RNG" is missing the crux of the question. it's like answering "how do I generate all combinations of a given tuple manually" with "just use itertools"
 
the function will generate random variables and the set is deterministic
 
MrP
or "how do i sort this list" just use "std::sort"
 
:cripes:
 
1:18 AM
@MrP Ok. Generate your random numbers by your generator implemention.
Insert them into your collection.
Shuffle them.
 
@MrP That is how you sort a list. Duh.
 
MrP
ok nobody here knows, that's fine. thanks anyway though
 
Arf arf arf!
 
@milleniumbug Is shuffling redundant?
 
Yes, nobody knows. No more retarded RNG talk.
 
1:19 AM
@ThePhD sssssh he's just leaving
 
Woof.
 
good evening
 
And now you know what :psyduck: means.
 
@not-sehe not-hi ;)
Damnit, I didn't make any rep today T_T SO Problems
 
@MarkGarcia Almost certainly yes.
 
1:21 AM
@ScottW I go batshit for you :3
 
my internet just dropped out for a sec is all
 
@EtiennedeMartel If you want to make your computer cry, you can try the game I worked on during my internship. (Trailer and download links are here)
 
@Borgleader Your internship is over?
 
Yeah it was a seven and a half weeks deal
 
1:27 AM
So you're free as a bird now?~
@Derek朕會功夫 @Telkitty猫咪咪's long lost brother?
 
@Borgleader You in that photo with people wearing black shirts?
 
@ThePhD nah mine says "emperor" his says "kitty"
 
Is ZeroMQ related to DeadMG? :)
 
@MarkGarcia Yeah, top right
 
@Derek朕會功夫 are you looking down upon me :p
 
1:30 AM
:P
 
@Derek朕會功夫 cough hers cough
 
Oops sorry my mistake
 
@Borgleader Nice to work with a team full of diverse people.
 
can anyone tell me what is the difference between char and string
 
@Derek朕會功夫 std::string is a container of char
 
1:32 AM
@MarkGarcia Oh yeah definitely
 
Both are not what they're called.
 
When I do char txt[80]; gets(txt); it works but it stopped working when I change it to string txt;
 
Strings function similar to char vectors although technically they aren't considered containers
 
@Derek朕會功夫 Of course. Because gets sucks so much.
 
@Derek朕會功夫 gets? ewww, at least use C++
 
1:34 AM
Use std::getline(std::cin, txt) instead
 
std::string -> char*, not good.
 
I'm new to C++ so I don't really know what I am supposed to use
 
@Derek朕會功夫 std::string manages memory for you. Less bugs, more time to write correct code.
 
In JS it is so much easier, txt = prompt(); that's all :P
 
std::string has its problems. But it's still better than managing char arrays by yourself.
@Derek朕會功夫 And what if you want to receive input from a file?
 
1:39 AM
std::string is really good. Just that the whole string and localization facilities doesn't do (proper) unicode encodings.
 
@milleniumbug Receive input from a file in JS?
 
@MarkGarcia The problem with std::string is that it is little more over char vector. And standard algorithms don't know it.
@Derek朕會功夫 You can do that in C++.
 
@milleniumbug You mean that it could be just better to do std::vector<char> instead of std::string?
 
@milleniumbug JS is less powerful than c++ that's why I want to learn c++
at least I think
 
@MarkGarcia Hell no. It's that std::reverse over std::string won't get you reversed string.
 
1:43 AM
I've never seen "gets" but I do use get(), is that okay?
or is there a better way to get a single char out of something?
 
@Derek朕會功夫 Some standard advice I give to C++ newbies: go get a good book, decent compiler, and enable all warnings in your compiler.
 
@milleniumbug Works for me: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/…
 
@MarkGarcia UTF-8
 
@milleniumbug Just like what I just said.
 
@MarkGarcia Well, obviously I'm bad at this - should string be a sequence of code points or code units?
Unfortunately generic code most of the time expects string to be sequence of code points.
 
1:49 AM
why isn't this working... coliru.stacked-crooked.com/…
 
@milleniumbug The interpretation is what matters. For UTF-8 as an example, std::string is perfect for storing the string. Interpreting what really is inside however, it fails to do it. For example, in a UTF-8 encoded string stored in std::string, and you have characters that require 2 bytes, then you get 2*std::string::size() for the string's size instead of the number of code points.
 
@milleniumbug I don't understand the distinction, code points vs code units? Would points be like a range between two iterators?
 
@Derek朕會功夫 Since C++ is derivative from C language it duplicates some functionalities. Most C++ features play nice with old C features, but C features don't with C++ features.
@Derek朕會功夫 printf is from C. Try again with std::cout
 
0
Q: Ray Tracing in Haskell

user2290347I have worked in a (very basic) Ray Tracing software in the past. (in C++). Now want to create an advanced system (CSG, radiosity..) from scratch. I find interesting to implement it in Haskell, because I'm learning functional programming too. Performance is a very important fact in Ray Tracing ...

lol
 
@AaronKyleKilleen I think it depends on how much backwards-compatible you want for std::basic_string.
 
1:54 AM
@AaronKyleKilleen It's from unicode. Code point is encoding-agnostic, and code unit isn't.
 
@milleniumbug Seems to me that everything has a `std::" prefix
 
@Derek朕會功夫 everything in the standard library is part of the std:: namespace
 
@Derek朕會功夫 printf in C didn't have std:: prefix, as it C has no namespaces.
 
@Borgleader But I already have using namespace std; so does it mean I don't need std:: anymore?
 
@Derek朕會功夫 Most people here will tell you that using namespace std; is bad idea.
 
1:56 AM
why?
 
@Derek朕會功夫 Depends on where you put it.
 
272
Q: Why is "using namespace std;" considered bad practice?

ManaI've been told by others on numerous occasions that my teacher was wrong in saying that we should have using namespace std; in our programs, and that std::cout and std::cin are more proper. However, they would always be vague as to why this is a bad practice. Why is using namespace std; consider...

 
as long as it isn't in header files, what's wrong with it?
 
Namespaces are a way to "partition" types and functions to avoid name clashes, if you keep doing using namespace x; you're essentially bring everything from that namespace into your scope thus potentially introducing clashes
(I might not be expressing it very well but the gist of it is: don't)
 
1:58 AM
well let me put it this way, if we set aside linking other header files and source files, and pretend we're only coding in one .cpp file wouldn't using namespace std; make sense?
 
@MarkGarcia Well, std::vector<char> also can store anything :) Maybe whatever::string<typename Encoding> is better since conversions between encodings are explicit.
@AaronKyleKilleen Lot of things. If you add new library, you can get name clash. Also, C++stdlib reserves many common names like list, max, min, distance. And they can clash with your code.
 
@milleniumbug If you want to be backwards-compatible, then you must aim for the proper interpretation of the string.
 
@milleniumbug so the reason they use it in c++ primer and other books is just to make the code more readable/shorter.
 
@Derek朕會功夫 using namespace * can also be good depending on how and where you use them. Just like having using namespace std::placeholders; and other long nested namespaces.
 
sup
 
2:04 AM
@AaronKyleKilleen Even 3x`std::` in single line isn't that much of a benefit when writing/reading. So, it's to make it shorter. Printed line lengths are quite short.
 
using std::* (notice the lack of "namespace") however is quite useful. Especially using std::cout; using std::cin; using std::endl; and similar stuff. cout, cin and endl are very uncommon names.
 
@MarkGarcia i prefer renaming namespaces instead. For example when I was doing some tests with C++ AMP: namespace amp = concurrency;
 
For those who work. Would you say working at a startup is better than a big company? Or the opposite?
 
@MarkGarcia Well, std::string is definitely an improvement over old C-style strings. But unfortunately it doesn't store any info about text it encodes. (adhering to Spolsky's advice that you can't have text without knowing what encoding it its). My opinion now is that problem with std::string is that std::reverse (which apparently reverses sequences) doesn't reverse characters in std::string, so std::string can't be sequence of characters.
 
2:11 AM
@Borgleader The downside is that you need to document it to the point of making it obvious, though.
 
what?!
 
@MarkGarcia Not really.
Renamed namespaces don't obscure origin like flattened ones.
 
I mean, you need to make people reading your code know that this namespace is equal to that namespace.
 
It's in code.
 
Having namespace renamed has benefit - it's reversible process.
 
2:14 AM
In fact, it's right under the includes, if you're not an idiot.
 
<-- not an idiot
 
Which wouldn't be that easy to find depending on the locality of your using directive. Well, there are those IDE tools, but... well.
@milleniumbug If you want proper Unicode support in the standard, having a radically different std::string or a separate one seems like not the standard-ish way of improving and building upon the library. But it, I think, is the right way to do it. I hope standardization will make the right move on this one very important issue.
 
Ahaha it will suck. Just use ICU.
 
Well, speaking of ICU, I had a hard time downloading the latest Windows binaries. Complains that I need proper authorization.
I'll try again.
 
ICU is surprisingly easy to build.
Even without using their build system.
 
2:22 AM
Oh. It downloaded. Perfect.
 
@MarkGarcia Well, since everybody else is using std::string, adding another string type would be quite a mess.
 
std::string is not a string type.
It's just a dumb byte vector.
It's useless for Unicode.
 
@milleniumbug Sure will do. And if you're considering other encoding other than UTF-8... I don't know.
 
Ugh again with encodings where they don't matter.
 
2:27 AM
@MarkGarcia Well, fortunately I know why having single encoding is better than having multiple incompatible ones.
 
@milleniumbug If only the standardization could have an iron hand on those situations.
 
@MarkGarcia Well, standard institutions don't have authority on this matter of encodings (saying this outside C++ context). It's the evil cycle of legacy systems - can't drop them, can't live without them, so we have to support them.
It's the reason why EBCDIC, COBOL is used even now, why internet browsers have to support de facto standards, and why there are multiple character encodings now.
 
Compatibility is not the only reason for multiple encodings.
 
Deprive a community of a feature they want and need in favor of another, and you'll sure lose them.
 
@CatPlusPlus Sorry, can you elaborate? I just don't see it.
 
2:41 AM
No silver bullet.
Some encodings are more desirable than others in various circumstances.
 
Hmmm. Valid reason. But still I think there should be one encoding when communicating between multiple systems.
 
There's no need for that as long as you can transmit the encoding information.
 
Unfortunately that's not always the case (broken C++ file opening - UTF-16 on one platform, UTF-8 on another)
Portability is hard :(
 
@MarkGarcia There is no way to adapt std::string to Unicode, so there's no other choice but to define a new string type.
 
Not enough metadata and also C++ is shit.
 
2:48 AM
:(
But I still hope of an "elegant" solution that uses existing facilities.
 
I see analogy here with C++ libraries. There are many C++ ABIs, but every single one of them is incompatible with another. The fact that C libraries have it easy is unfair :(
 
@DeadMG I guess that means they messed up with already defining std::u16string and friends.
 
Oh well. If they can give us std::intellistring then I'd be very happy.
 
0
Q: I am looking for a proper way to display a UUID via NatVis in VS2012

HelloWorldI am looking for a proper way to display a UUID via NatVis in VS2012. My own uuid type uses UUID big-endian internally so a cast to (GUID*) does not work as GUID uses little-endian in Windows. So I always see a misrepresented uuid. Furthermore any format specifier in Natvis looks not nice becaus...

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