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Ell
7:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz tabs + spaces works for me, and it's only for me really :P
 
@Ell "I write for me so I won't use proper formatting"
UGH
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz It is proper formatting
gists editor just changes it into something I told it not to use
it's not my fault!
 
@Ell except it does not render properly on the tool you are using.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz "I don't like VS, it's :effort:, so I won't support it" :P
 
@sehe how does he have 6k rep ... shivers
 
7:01 PM
@Xeo it would basically mean my code will get worse, not better
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz yeah well that's the tools fault for modifying my code :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz Do you maybe know off the top of your head what's wrong with this 37-line test app? It compiles but when I run it it lowers my screen resolution and freezes.
 
@Ell it's not modifying it. In fact, it's interpreting tabs as 8 spaces, which is perfectly ok
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz well I just need to start and stop fast drop, what is the benefit of a property?
 
@Ell it takes one line instead of 7
@Tuntuni I wouldn't recommend using fullscreen for debugging
 
Ell
7:02 PM
@BartekBanachewicz So regardless of what I tick, it shows them as 8 space tabs, it's doing what it is supposed to? :£
* :3
 
@Ell oh indeed there's a little pesky thing.
I honestly have no idea. And I couldn't care less. Code with spaces is always displayed correctly.
Use spaces problem solved.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz but a method is more descriptive, and this way I'm not showing off the inner workings (imho)
@BartekBanachewicz but effort
 
@Ell there's no effort, stop spreading FUD
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf 550 questions.
 
Xeo
@Ell where inner_workings = assign
 
Ell
7:04 PM
I have to press backspace 4 times instead of 1 :O
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf he's just not very well-introduced into standardese. And being curious speaks in favour of him/her. A little searching wouldn't have hurt, but {} is arguably hard to google for /cc @JerryCoffin
 
@Ell use editor that doesn't suck
 
Hey guys
 
Ell
@Xeo what do you mean? o.O
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ah. I just followed the example. :P I'll check for making it not fullscreen.
 
7:04 PM
I don't mind moderating a question like that. Just point him at "aggregate type" and be done. /cc @EiyrioüvonKauyf @JerryCoffin
 
@Ell turnShitOn(); turnShitOff vs shit = on; shit = off; I don't see how it's less descriptive TBH
 
Xeo
@Ell The "inner workings" of your "{start,stop}_stuff" is just "assign true or false"
 
@kbok long time no seen
 
@kbok hey there. your twitter av got pwned.
 
user142019
I love the printer scene.
 
7:05 PM
@BartekBanachewicz inb4 ruby has active setters/getters
 
@sehe Yup -- I see nothing wrong with that at all. Just pointing out that most of his rep appears to have come from questions, not answers.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz well no, it would be shit = true which doesn't really make so much sense :3
 
@sehe I couldn't honestly care less about ruby
@Ell use an enumeration. Does that thing you call language even support enumerations?
 
Ell
@Xeo yeah but assignment doesn't display the intent as well I don't think
 
@JerryCoffin ..... this is not good
 
Ell
7:06 PM
@BartekBanachewicz uhhhhh surrrre it doesss :L :P
runs away
 
@Ell the intent is setting a variable to one of two possible values
 
@BartekBanachewicz haha
@micheal_lunny Why do I have the vague feeling you should meet @kbok? :-)
 
@Ell what?
 
@BartekBanachewicz then why are you noising about it?
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz No. It doesn't support enums.
 
7:06 PM
@EiyrioüvonKauyf I see nothing wrong with it at all.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yay it works. :D
 
Ell
But what is the use of enums in a dynamically typed language
 
@sehe I am noising about design, not language
@Ell :CRIPES:
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz The intent is starting and stopping something ;P
 
@Ell just uh,. fkjfaljkdfjlkh13hfadfvznvadv
 
Ell
7:07 PM
@BartekBanachewicz well tell me, what is the use of enums in a dynamically typed language?
 
@Ell restricting a value to a set of possible values? O.O
what is use of enums in C++?
or in C?
 
or even Java
 
or in pretty much every fucking language that has them?
 
Ell
c++ and c aren't dynamically typed
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf meh. jealous. Maybe troll a little less. Spend a little more time thinking about the purpose of SO
 
Ell
7:08 PM
a variable carries static type information in c++
 
@Ell and how does that fucking matter?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, that's weird cause I cut it myself
 
@Ell Largely the same as in a statically typed language: to give meaningful names to values.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Say taht again?
 
owait no
 
Ell
7:08 PM
@BartekBanachewicz because you don't restrict variables to types in a dynamic language
 
@sehe this language is so terrible you can't apparently even express proper design in it
 
@Ell I love how easy it is to make Bartek stumble and look insecure when you challenge his world views every so mildly :)
3
@BartekBanachewicz cough. Go make some shaders in CUDA
 
Ell
@sehe Indeed :P
 
@Ell I didn't tell you to restrict it to types. I told you to restrict it to values
@sehe CUDA has no shaders -.-
 
Keep telling him!
 
Xeo
7:09 PM
The set of valid values of an enum is potentially infinite.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I didn't say that, did I?
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz Thus restricting types? How can you not restrict types but restrict values
 
@sehe So today colleague announced (in Dutch): "I have a question about the cut command.". It sounded funny in Dutch.
 
I mean @Ell basically comes there, shows us terrible design, I call it a terrible design, and then I am called someone who fights on ruby
:thumbsup:
 
Xeo
@Cat is leaving a bad mark on @Bartek
 
Ell
7:10 PM
Calm down :P we are just having a discussion about enums now
 
@Ell I don't know if you should be using a dynamic language if you don't know that.
 
 
Or maybe that's another thing Ruby can't do, I dunno really.
 
@StackedCrooked Hehe. We do joke about a rewrite of an Oracle generalized CRUD package. When spoken with the right intonation, people will hear "Kut" regardless of whether you pronounce the R
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked lol
 
Ell
7:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You can use symbols (atoms, I think they are also called) if you want, or constants.
 
@Ell anyway, that's irrelevant. let's put ruby under the rock, where it belongs, and come back to the code
 
@sehe who's jealous?
 
@Xeo enumerations don't need to be exhaustive to be useful anyway. Just for example, with 24-bit colors you have ~16.8 million colors, and it would be pretty pointless to dream up names for every single one. Names for some ("red", "green", "blue", "yellow", etc.) can be useful anyway.
 
if you want to do it via a function, make it one function that accepts an enum
because in its current state it's terribly inflexible. (and not really encapsulating anything)
@sehe I don't see any of my world views being challenged
 
:|
 
Ell
7:14 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I disagree with the encapsulation - whatever mechanism that I implement fastdrop with is hidden now?
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Now imagine red | yellow == orange, orange | red == redder_orange, and so on and so on... :D
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf you are
 
@sehe lol at what?
 
@Ell you must be of the group that advocates setters and getters every time "because encapsulation"
 
Ell
Compare having a Person{ int age} vs Person {void grow()}
 
7:15 PM
@EiyrioüvonKauyf That's a good question. Go answer some questions :/
 
0
Q: Use constant to set variable type

Radosław MI was wondering, if this: #define size 8 #if ( 0 < size ) and ( size <= 16 ) static unsigned char value; #elif ( 8 < size ) and ( size <= 16 ) static unsigned short value; #elif ( 16 < size ) and ( size <= 32 ) static unsigned value; #elif ( 32 < size ) and ( size <= 64 ) static uns...

 
2 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
if you want to do it via a function, make it one function that accepts an enum
 
Does anyone get this?
 
@sehe too much work; i did some a few days ago
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not. I know getters/setters don't help with encapsulation. But this is different
this isn't setting or getting
it's a command
 
7:16 PM
there, you said it. one command.
 
Ell
Yeah. But you are telling it to do something as opposed to changing data
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf why is this not good?
@Ell I didn't understand a thing in that sentence
 
@BartekBanachewicz nvm
 
@Rapptz apparently he is making an int(void) function with the pre-processor
@Rapptz I believe its to make a bitset like std::vector<bool> would be better off with template for size
 
@Xeo I can imagine that, but I'm not sure it's a good idea. Support for arithmetic isn't normally a trait of an enumeration as such.
 
@A.H. (void)-> you suck.
 
Ell
Well. doing start_fast_drop is a command, which carries intent, whereas fast_drop = true although quite self explanatory in this case, might not be in other cases. Consider drag and drop, I'm guessing the implementation for startDragDrop isn't as simple as setting a flag
 
@DeadMG int () happy ?
 
Ell
Even though the implementation in this case is simple, I think a method carries more intent
and it's 2 extra lines, jeez :P
 
@Ell you made two methods iirc
 
Ell
7:22 PM
@BartekBanachewicz well yeah
start and stop
 
@Ell if you keep putting stuff like that in your code it will accumulate to really bloated thing
 
Ell
Bloated? :L Why?
I don't see the bloat
 
Xeo
Bartek handing out design advices seems kinda out of place.
 
@Ell bloat boat :3 is hard to float
 
I seriously hate trying to debug a trashed stack :(
 
7:23 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Dogbert would love it.
3
 
@Xeo wait what?
 
@JerryCoffin dogbert is awesome
 
I would seem out of place handing out C++TMP advice.
 
Pope Francis reached out to gays, saying he won't judge priests for their sexual orientation in a remarkably open and wide-ranging news conference Monday as he returned from his first foreign trip.

"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" Francis asked. "We shouldn't marginalize people for this. They must be integrated into society."
 
@Rapptz whaat?
 
Ell
7:25 PM
oh yah I just read
 
@MooingDuck New pope is okay with gay people.
 
@Rapptz eh, not quite
 
Whenever I hit a snag in programming which my original design doesn’t accommodate, and I therefore need to either rewrite huge parts or do something badly I lose interest and stop being productive … :-/
 
Xeo
@Rapptz cue conspiracy theory about the old pope being gone because they needed a new one to make the sudden change in belief work
 
@MooingDuck If ya say so
 
7:27 PM
@Rapptz according to the article I found, it's more "he now tolerates gay priests, but it's still considered a sin"
 
just fuck religion forever
 
That's a different manner entirely.
The religion itself considers homosexuality a sin, he can't really change that can he?
 
@Rapptz right. "ok with gay people" was vague, I misunderstood what you meant
that article is nearly the same as the one I read verbatum
 
My article was the the first 11 paragraphs of yours exactly, but cut off there
nm, found a next page button
 
Xeo
7:29 PM
lol
 
@Xeo So if you hate overloading, how would you suggest operator overloading?
Asking out of interest.
 
user142019
@Rapptz He's still an asshole.
 
can you recommend a mocking framework. i'm looking at Google's atm
 
user142019
But yeah what would you expect from a pope.
 
@rightfold I think he's an okay guy.
 
7:34 PM
@rightfold the new one is better than the old imho
 
user142019
I has kidnapped people.
2
 
user142019
@EiyrioüvonKauyf PHP is also better than Java but that doesn't make it good.
 
it would be really hard for new pope to beat that ^
 
@rightfold when it has say over a few million people it does
 
7:35 PM
@EiyrioüvonKauyf no
 
that's like saying just because a democracy is better than a dictatorship it doesn't make it good
 
user142019
I would be a great pope.
 
@rightfold ...........
 
@rightfold no, PHP is not better than java
saying that php is better than anything is already a fallacy.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz It's about the idea. (And yes it really is.)
 
7:36 PM
@rightfold no it really is not
 
@rightfold Java>PHP
 
@BartekBanachewicz what. you just said something is better than Java ...... are you feeling ok?
 
user142019
It has type inference and fucking lambdas.
 
@rightfold new java does :3
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf both php and java are terrible, but java is slighty less terrible
 
user142019
7:36 PM
It lacks annoying checked exception nonsense.
 
@BartekBanachewicz haha i didn't think i would hear this
 
anyway arguing about languages with @rightfold is totally pointless :F
 
user142019
The only downside of PHP compared to Java is that it's a lot less consistent.
 
@rightfold I like chef personally. the ideas of my programming sounding like recipes is pretty cool
 
user142019
And probably the community is slightly more terrible.
 
7:37 PM
@EiyrioüvonKauyf why? PHP is like totally worst thing on earth, and java follows it closely
 
Xeo
@Rapptz I don't hate overloading per-se, I've just learned that there are mostly better alternatives. For operator overloading, I'd likely go for something like type-classes, but I do admit that I don't see operators as much of a problem, since their signatures are mostly fixed - operator() being the notable exception, the one causing problems with signature_of<F>, currying and stuff.
 
do you guys post comments on why you didn't +1 an answer?
 
0
Q: Microsoft Detours not removing detour?

AlecI'm having a pretty strange problem with Microsoft detours. I believe this is the relevant code BOOL WINAPI DllMain ( HMODULE hDll, DWORD dwReason, LPVOID lpReserved ){ DisableThreadLibraryCalls(hDll); if (dwReason == DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH) { timeGetTime_orig = (DWORD (__...

 
(but if you didn't -1 it either)
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Sometimes
 
7:40 PM
frick. I noticed that some code I had was ignoring some error codes returned from a C API, and modified it to pay attention to those returns and throw exceptions. Now everything crashes with a corrupted stack and I can't figure out why
 
Xeo
lol
 
@MooingDuck remove exceptions label it as working
 
Xeo
>introduce error handling
>make everything crash
 
@MooingDuck how do you now the stack is corrupted
 
:D
C is amazing you gotta say that
 
Xeo
7:41 PM
@StackedCrooked Windows will spit it in your face in debug mode
 
@StackedCrooked because when it crashes VC shows the stack. The only function in it was called by NULL
 
@Xeo i kinda am scared of pressing "run" now you put it that way
 
@Xeo eventually
 
@BartekBanachewicz draft for implementing tables
 
Xeo
@Rapptz ^ question answered with that?
 
user142019
7:42 PM
I need to store decimal floating point numbers in Haskell.
 
@Xeo oh, you were working, I see. Lemme glance over that
 
I've been taking the train lately
 
@kbok btw why isn't that a GH PR?
 
'Cause Coliru is fun.
 
@Xeo With what? Your desire for type classes? I'm not against that, I just don't dislike overloading even if I only do it with operators, constructors, and overloading to take extra parameters.
 
Xeo
7:44 PM
@Rapptz No, on what I'd do for operators.
Jul 22 at 18:35, by Xeo
The only point where I'd really want overloads, for now, is constructors.
^ btw
 
You didn't say what'd you do with operators, you just said they're no issue because their signature is fixed.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Because of some stupid auth technicalities (also: probably won't compile, no tests, etc)
 
@MooingDuck how do you know that's a corrupted stack? (I honestly don't know.)
 
@kbok I guess latter reasons are actually more important :)
 
7:46 PM
@StackedCrooked pretty sure 000000000 isn't a valid function
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck 00000001
 
@MooingDuck There is no 000000000.
 
@StackedCrooked 00000001()
 
@kbok anyway, looks legit. We still gotta make a branch from it, write tests and test live, though.
 
@MooingDuck Since MFC is involved, that's the logical scapegoat. Never mind that fact that it isn't involved at all -- it's old and universally reviled, therefore easy to blame. :-)
 
7:48 PM
Don't know if 00000001 is memory mapped.
 
Anyway, why would you overload accumulate to be foldl and foldl1?
 
@BartekBanachewicz sure
 
@JerryCoffin "since MFC is involved... never mind it isn't involved"
 
@StackedCrooked All logical addresses for 0 to 4Meg are mapped as not-present and inaccessible under Windows.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz I wouldn't.
 
7:49 PM
@JerryCoffin we can only imagine what goodies hide in those 4 megs
 
Xeo
I'd add a different function for foldl1
 
@JerryCoffin alternatively it could just be a function with a terrible name
 
@MooingDuck LOL
 
@MooingDuck Poor wording. The stack trace shows "MFC" somewhere, so it's clearly the culprit!
 
Me too.
 
7:49 PM
@JerryCoffin I didn't directly blame MFC yet
 
user142019
Should I use fixed point numbers or decimal floating point numbers to store monetary values?
 
@MooingDuck No -- but I'm telling you that you should. It's an easy scapegoat, whether it was really involved or not.
 
@rightfold depends
 
user142019
The only calculations I need to perform are addition and subtraction.
 
@rightfold use whatever, you'll dump the project in a few days anyway
 
7:50 PM
@BartekBanachewicz The rationale is that it looks from the designer's standpoint that the only way to get hold of a lua reference type is through the registry. It lets you 1) Operate on underlying objects via the stack while keeping handles out of the context and 2) Manage your own side of the reference count, shared_ptr style
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz I want to do it right.
 
@rightfold So you only need addition :)
 
@kbok we're already using that FYI
 
Oh I just realised there's something called is_function.
 
user142019
It's very likely I'll ever need to do this.
 
7:51 PM
@Rapptz does it work?
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked :P
 
@rightfold there's no "right". your usage desc was too vague
 
@Rapptz is it a function
if not it's a terrible name
oh, wait.
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf now, you can't be both jealous and lazy. Pick your favourite stance :/
 
@MooingDuck Looks okay to me. Don't think it works with overloaded operator() though.
 
7:51 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Did I miss something? Where it is?
 
@StackedCrooked Meta function.
 
It seems I've antagonated Bolas once again. Or rather, he did me:
Well. Of course the question is different. No exact duplicate ever gets asked. In my mind, the OP was looking for the relevant information, and lacked the jargon. I pointed at it, and don't see why adding this particular question over again adds value, just because it's not exactly the same question. — sehe 1 min ago
 
@Rapptz nor functionoids nor lambdas
 
@rightfold Fixed point
 
user142019
@kbok Ah. Why?
 
Xeo
7:52 PM
@Rapptz It checks if T == R(Args...)
aka function type
 
It depends on what you're going to do but the best is going for the integer representing hundreths of cents
 
Xeo
 
user142019
Somebody might have half a cent; gasoline.
 
@rightfold Hence 1/100 of cents
 
Xeo
Ryu: Hey can I borrow some money?
Ken: Shoryuken!
lol
 
7:54 PM
@rightfold normal response is fixed point, but I wonder. Fixed point would disallow usage of unexpected fractions, but is far easier to handle "edge" cases.
 
@kbok wait you're right. I must have mistaken it with something
 
user142019
@MooingDuck What would be the downside of decimal floating point numbers?
 
user142019
My range is about -500 to +500.
 
@sehe It's telling (IMO, anyway) that the reason to close was rephrased from "Exact duplicate" to just "duplicate of..." This seems to indicate that merely duplicating the same subject matter is considered sufficient, even if the duplication isn't precise (i.e., seems to support the case that you're right and he's wrong).
 
@rightfold floating point rounding
 
user142019
7:55 PM
Ah right.
 
@kbok are you aware of luaL_ref though?
 
Again, it depends on what you're doing. If that's for an accounting app, you want precision especially for consolidation etc. so fixed-point. If that's for risk management, you really don't care about the precision and you're going to handle very large values so you go float
 
user142019
How about rationals?
 
@rightfold rationals tend to be slow, not sure I'd recommend that.
@rightfold note in this discussion my opinion is not any more knowledgeable than yours
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, that's pretty much what I did :/
 
user142019
7:56 PM
Even if it takes 10ms to change the number, that's fast enough.
 
user142019
There'll be only one user.
 
@kbok :/ -> :), we're on the same page.
 
@rightfold Rationals of money?
 
user142019
@kbok Yes. I don't see why not.
 
user142019
I mean, you're not going to have π euros.
 
7:57 PM
I really don't see how rationals of money would make sense
 
user142019
And the only operation performed is addition, not multiplication.
 
@kbok how does it not make sense
 
user142019
Wait. Fixed-point numbers can have infinite (ignoring memory limits) precision, right?
 
user142019
Oh wait no that makes no sense.
 
@sehe ? i'm just lazy; i was never jealous .. well at least not of him. i'm slightly jealous of @BartekBanachewicz and graphics tho
 
7:58 PM
@rightfold some of them can, same as any other numeric format
 
@rightfold Yes, that's essentially a bignum with a different referential
@MooingDuck Ever paid 1/3 euro?
 
user142019
I could store it as (Integer, Integer) pairs where the first is whole euros and the latter is cents. :P
 
@kbok not yet. Are you going to guarantee that it will never happen?
 
@MooingDuck Sure
 
@rightfold It's typically done with a fixed denominator -- e.g., storing 1/100ths of a cent.
 
7:59 PM
I'm even betting you 100 1/3 euros this will never happen
 

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