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4:00 PM
All C++ unit test frameworks suck.
 
Some suck a lot more than others :p
 
so VS supports this openmp thingy
 
I have to go over all my code eventually and see what's thread-safe and what's not :v
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. Has for quite a while now.
 
=/
 
4:03 PM
so I just add #pragma omp parallel for and it magically works?
 
@BartekBanachewicz VS does, but you dont :P
 
I just watched an internal bug thread about EBCO get shot down because of windows.
 
@Borgleader what?
 
> Je suis sûr que t'as un poignet super puissant.
 
No EBCO as far as I can tell. ;~;
 
4:03 PM
@BartekBanachewicz didnt you say fuck MSVS earlier today?
 
@Borgleader "fuck msvs 2012"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sometimes it's a little more complex than that. For one example: stackoverflow.com/a/17036402/179910
 
@ThePhD Nah, just very limited.
@Borgleader He's supporting a pre-beta release...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He's compiling on CTP or Preview?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, limited, but. ;~; Sadface is sad.
 
4:05 PM
If you know the pressure points you can convince the compiler to EBCO.
 
> So, rather than JS being four times faster, C++ is actually 250 times faster.
LOL :D
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Eh, it's basically the left-most base that gets EBCO treatment, AFAIR
 
@ThePhD you are aware of the fact that "CTP" means "community technology preview" right?
 
i think he meant 2012 ctp vs 2013 preview
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, the thread went into a few pressure points you can hit, but... it's really a pain. And hard to do when you get something pre-packed like std::tuple
 
Xeo
4:06 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I think he meant "CTP or 2013 Preview"
 
Ell
gah I'm drowing in conditionals
 
@BartekBanachewicz how are vertexes sent without immediate mode?
 
@Ell at least youre not drowning in conditioner, that shit burns your eyes
 
@BartekBanachewicz I still haven't quite figured out how that one got accepted -- it may be what some people wanted to believe, but it's pretty clearly just plain wrong.
 
Damn, it's like everything depends on normalisation.
 
4:08 PM
@Pawnguy7 VBOs
@JerryCoffin OIC. so what does reduction(+:total) firstprivate(inc) mean? o.O
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Work stuff or ogonek stuff?
 
he explains it; magic that says use a separate copy of (inc) for every thing and total the values of total after they're done: "This tells the compiler to execute the outer loop in multiple threads, with a separate copy of inc for each thread, and adding together the individual values of total after the parallel section.
"
 
@Borgleader that's ogonek
@EiyrioüvonKauyf hm indeed
 
I wish I could explode.
 
@JerryCoffin yeah, you did, my bad.
 
4:09 PM
@EtiennedeMartel imploding would look cooler
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's messy.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Kogmaw is that you?
 
Xeo
Omg. @R.MartinhoFernandes, did you see the new replies on why there's a need for fixed-size parameter packs?
 
@Xeo Fixed... size... parameter packs?
Wat?
 
4:10 PM
@TonyTheLion Being able to explode and then reconstruct myself would be an awesome superpower.
 
Xeo
template <Input_iterator I, class T, size_t N, Binary_operation Op = plus<T>>
    requires N <= 1
T accumulate(I first, I last, T init, Op...[N] op){ ... }
 
I could explode on people and them leave like nothing happened.
 
Xeo
^ with the idea being that you now only need one overload instead of two
 
@Borgleader did you really just make a LoL reference haha
 
Xeo
4:11 PM
template<class InIt, class T, class BinOp = plus<>>
T accumulate(InIt first, InIt last, T init, BinOp op = BinOp{})
 
@EtiennedeMartel yea
 
Xeo
^ Was my answer to that
 
Also, is an implicit (0, 1, 2, 3, 4) list going to be generated with variadic args yet? :D
'Cause that would be nice.
 
Xeo
Erm what?
 
huh, it's hard to tell if it's really faster just by looking
 
4:12 PM
get<Tn...>(); //<3, implicit { 0, 1, 2, 3, ..., n }
 
Xeo
nope
And that wouldn't make sense
If anything, get<N>()...
But nope
Richard Smith had an interesting proposal in that regard: get<...N>(stuff)...
 
Xeo
It works! I'm not sure why though, if you post this as an answer and explain it I'll happily accept. — Dan 3 mins ago
 
WTF is that syntax.
 
Xeo
^ There's a reason I posted it as a comment :(
@R.MartinhoFernandes operator...!
 
4:14 PM
Well, the syntax could be better.
 
Xeo
I like the idea. :(
Tuple unpacking: foo(...tuple)..., or even foo(...tuple...)!
 
What does it do?
 
I'll unpack your clothes~
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes operator... creates a pack, and is an overloadable operator.
There's an implicit version of operator...(size_t) for constant expression, which yields indices.
 
template<typename Xeo, typename... Clothes> ~
 
Xeo
4:16 PM
Are you trying to imitate @ThePhD?
 
@Xeo Or, to get packing for some unknown list of types instead of tuple, foo(... ... ...) :-)
 
I'm **expressing myself**
 
@Magtheridon96 stop
 
... is what I have to say about C++
2
 
We already have multiple uses for ... and now you want another one? :|
 
4:17 PM
@CatPlusPlus very interesting.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz I don't care whatever token it is.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Okay ;-;
 
std::get<Tn>( mytuple )... honestly seems like it would be fine, but that would mean each type argument in the tuple list would have to be comparable to an index. Which I mean, isn't terrible: exposing an ordering and an index listing would be useful, so you didn't have to cook one up everytime you needed it.
 
@Xeo That wouldn't work well.
It needs a magical signature.
 
foo(... ~*...*~ ...)
 
Xeo
4:19 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why?
Richard has an example implementation
 
@Xeo Write it.
 
Xeo
6 mins ago, by Xeo
Richard Smith had an interesting proposal in that regard: get<...N>(stuff)...
 
@Xeo The signature of operator...(size_t)
 
prefix "..." is only used in sizeof() unpack and in template type declarations for variadic args, right?
 
@Xeo i use this right now. well i use get<1>(t). t.get<N>() feels sort of weird since it doesn't really feel like you're dealing with packing
 
user142019
4:21 PM
@CatPlusPlus dat pun.
 
@ThePhD Never.
 
template <typename ...Tn>
^ prefix? Or is that considered post-fix to typename?
 
user142019
@ThePhD postfix! :3
 
That's only because you use the braindead style.
 
=[
 
4:22 PM
It's typename... T
 
user142019
It's like saying you prefix ) with ... if you want to catch all exceptions.
 
what the fuck is going on with my code
 
You wrote it.
 
Existence crisis.
 
no, I mean I've finally turned on /openmp
 
4:23 PM
throw bartek_implementation;
 
and the results are, um, well, what the fuck
 
For me, that usually means all the hidden bugs are popping up in excitement
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What about sizeof()
 
It's sizeof...
 
@BartekBanachewicz If you have any inter-iteration dependencies in the code, you'll need to do a bit more than just #pragma omp parallel for.
 
4:25 PM
Don't tell me you think it's a prefix to the parentheses.
 
lol
 
@JerryCoffin what are inter-depenencies? o.O
 
@BartekBanachewicz Iterations that depend on the result of previous iterations.
 
What about template<typename... T> void f(T......)?
Is ... a prefix of ...? :>
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nope-ish, nothing like that here
 
4:26 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Anything where a final result depends on more than one iteration of the loop, or where one iteration of the loop depends on a value produced by a previous iteration, or ...
 
Oooh... right
 
@Rapptz That's a different way of writing (T..., ...) (and why the fuck it exists, no one knows)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know.
 
@Xeo I like prefix ...sizeof() and all that stuff, then!
 
@ThePhD what
 
Xeo
4:27 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes C...
 
@Xeo C doesn't need it either :<
It's an alternative syntax there as well.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wonder if that's going to hold back my cool void f(int... a) proposal that I'll write in 2025.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes size_t operator...(size_t n){ return *magic*; }
 
Wait, why does it return a size_t?
 
Xeo
It returns a size_t...
Nov 2 '12 at 0:10, by Xeo
A reference implementation for an operator... that would expand things to packs which can be unpacked after that. (Example). /cc @LucDanton, @R.MartinhoFernandes, @FredOverflow (I think you might be interested in that, atleast)
 
4:29 PM
And you cannot write it in the language?
 
user142019
Hmm.
 
Then how do you write any overload whatsoever if the trivial one is not possible?
 
Xeo
Sadly, the hpaste isn't up anymore, but you can view it here: webcache.googleusercontent.com/…
 
user142019
web.mit.edu is surprisingly fast.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes See the example ^
 
4:29 PM
@rightfold what...? what led you to that but yeah it's pretty optimized; tools.pingdom.com/fpt/#!/bzSUEY/web.mit.edu. the tracking javascript is the only thing slowing it down
 
user142019
@EiyrioüvonKauyf A picture I found when searching for "lambda calculus" on Google Images.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes The "trivial one" is compiler provided magic
 
user142019
It loads in 30ms. That's fast as hell.
 
@rightfold mhmm :3
 
user142019
Much faster than Stack Overflow, which is already pretty fast.
 
Xeo
4:31 PM
You can also take packs from whoknowswhere, say from the template parameters of a class.
 
@Xeo If that one has to be magic, it looks like a crap feature.
 
user142019
They should use CSS sprites. :P
 
lol, googling for C++14 gave me "Carbon-14" as the top result.
 
What does Bing return?
 
@ThePhD did you really just say that
 
4:33 PM
Yes.
Hm. Bing returns C++14 stuff on Wikipedia.
 
Duck Duck Go gives me regular C++14 stuff.
 
user142019
By having a fast connection.
 
@ThePhD bing is pretty fast ~ 200 ms tools.pingdom.com/fpt/#!/dvtv9s/bing.com
@rightfold oh :c
 
user142019
Google is slow.
 
4:35 PM
@rightfold le tracking software and all the crap on top
 
user142019
ok?
 
ok!
 
user142019
ok‽
 
~3000us w/ OMP, ~4000us w/o OMP /cc @JerryCoffin
 
Xeo
4:36 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes meh
 
that's a reasonable gain considering no serious optimizations yet
 
It looks like simply sugar for tricks with indices.
 
Xeo
And all that other stuff that starts from indices.
Btw, I got the signature wrong. Needs to be compiler-provided I think.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah -- for anything that's parallelizable, a little work is likely to yield quite a bit more though.
 
@JerryCoffin well that is an easily parallelizable operation.
I am casting 400 rays on a quadtree that's basically locked
 
Xeo
4:40 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have to admit, I'd still like that sugar, since it spares me overloads and stuff.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Point is, if it can mostly run in parallel, time should generally be (roughly) divided by the number of available cores. Clearly you don't have even two cores really operating independently yet.
 
ugh but these results are unstable :/
 
@BartekBanachewicz you did remember -openmp right? le compiler flag
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf /openmp, yep
 
0
Q: Meaning of 0_0 in Java 7

Arnaud DenoyelleI have read that in Java7, we can now write this funny statement : public static boolean isZero(int O_O){ return O_O == 0_0; } The question is : What does exactly 0_0 mean in this context ?

 
4:44 PM
... i think IT deleted my .vimrc T_T and my .vim smh
 
@BartekBanachewicz How long is the test code in question?
 
^^ Java is weird...
 
@JerryCoffin the whole code being run inside the loop or the loop only?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Enough to compile.
 
@JerryCoffin around 800 lines total + window creation stuff
 
4:46 PM
have you tried profiling?
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf not yet, I was just curious how much gain trivial openmp usage will me
 
@Xeo I guess I don't need that often enough.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Are you averse to putting something that can compile up where I can look at it?
 
I also don't like the fact that the body of that function is a separate magical world :(
You cannot have unexpanded packs anywhere else.
(IMO nerfing unexpanded packs and making tuple a library solution was a wrong move)
 
Xeo
mh
 
4:47 PM
@JerryCoffin I was just experimenting, so it's not really optimized that much. It's on my github, but you know, before I really profile thoroughly and make at least some optimizations it's hard to talk about potential parallelism improvements, no?
 
Actually, this proposal is pretty much trying to reverse that mistake: empowering unexpanded packs, and bringing tuple to play nice with packs.
 
oho, found the hot path
std::set::recursiveMerge
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes and no. Yes, optimizing single thread performance often gives more bang for the buck, and can improve threading ability as well. No, it's not really necessary if all you care about is getting at least some idea of how much good threading can doe for this sort of code.
 
Big thunderstorm here
 
@TonyTheLion You too?
 
4:52 PM
@Borgleader I'm not thundering personally (I have no idea what that means), but there's a thunderstorm outside yea
 
Personal Thunder.
Sold by Zeus, Inc.
 
@JerryCoffin it's here. I presume you won't be using Visual Studio, so simply cut everything related to OpenGL, it's only for presentation purposes. What matters is the raycast function and the loop in display()
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion Do want.
 
@TonyTheLion here too
 
4:54 PM
@Xeo You already had yours, don't be selfish. D:
 
If a mod puts a question on hold only their name/reason shows up?
 
SHARE THE THUNDER.
 
wait, that wasn't std::set. that was my function called set <facepalm>
 
@Borgleader They don't need 5 votes, their vote alone closes the question
 
4:55 PM
oh i see
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes mh
 
@JerryCoffin and here ^ 's your claim about using one core :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Which one? :O
 
@BartekBanachewicz Who says you're not running a one core processor? :P
 
I'm sorry, but can a constructor be virtual?
 
4:58 PM
Wouldnt make much sense
 
^
 
@Jeffrey nope
 
What would it mean to be a virtual constructor?
 
related
 
4:58 PM
This should be captioned "Fuck you! I'm awesome!
 
@Jeffrey typo from destructor surely?
 
@Borgleader 1 core, 8 virtual cores?
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's not really about just using one core -- it's about making effective use of the multiple cores. I can pretty easily write code that will show all the cores running at 100% for the duration, but still run slower it did single threaded.
 

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