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1:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, but they don't need to be scrapped out of your dick ...
 
@thecoshman Sure. What about the girl/woman?
I mean, you should worry about your wife/gf.
 
@BartekBanachewicz s/,/;/
 
@wilx Why is that?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Close enough
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yeah; whatever
 
1:02 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You mean maven/NuGet/whatever?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes more like the "whatever" part.
 
@thecoshman Uggh
 
@wilx ¬_¬ can't I just be a dick and move on?
 
@wilx Ah. I see, the wife obviously doesn't worry about her own body.
 
@thecoshman 3 years ago, yes. Today, I have changed after becoming a father.
 
1:03 PM
I don't like it.
 
@sehe: Nah. The twice bit was silly from me.
 
:)
 
@wilx oh, meant a bout insensitive dead baby jokes
 
I am still, US speak, pro choice. But from years back, only as a last resort.
...with undefined conditions as to when it becomes the last option. :)
 
BTW
> full certification is mandatory for OpenGL 4.4 and onwards. This will help reduce differences between multiple vendors’ OpenGL drivers, resulting in enhanced portability for developers.
Which means bringing OpenGL closer to Dx in terms of working ootb.
 
1:08 PM
so yeah... just encase the mix of peeps here right now is better suited, any one care to share some smarts on REST
 
TL
Do you really expect me to read it? :)
 
@wilx well, you could just read the question and post your own answer
 
Again?
Did you change something?
 
Fuck. My Indian boss can't read diff files ffs.
 
1:12 PM
He has just asked me to send both old and new files separately in zip files.
 
in bash, if I have a string like URL: https://localhost/svn/A/B/C, how can I extract C?
 
@thecoshman Boom
 
I can never grok awk/sed's horrific syntax
 
@wilx Try diff --indian
 
1:12 PM
:D
 
@sehe o_0 what did you do?
 
@thecoshman Seems like your second solution is by far the cleaner
 
@wilx He can read diff files, but he wants full context without having the original
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit +/[^/]*$+ on sed
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'encase the mix of peeps here right now is better'
 
1:13 PM
@thecoshman Turned out the mix became explosive and you triggered combustion
 
@sehe better suited... damn I didn't clarify
 
Whatever, we are using CVS, I am giving him what it produces. He should be able to deal with it on his own.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's a matter of principle with me. I will not start depending on another arcane scripting tool
@wilx HA! Just send him a copy of the darn repo .RCS file. That'll do
 
@jalf yeah, but trying to convince 'systems architect' of that is not so easy.
 
@sehe Trying to add detect-my-version-from-SVN-please into a makefile
 
1:14 PM
Once "architects" become involved, you've pretty much lost already
2
unless you're building a building
 
@wilx still? ... after all these times? ... I am touched :')
 
@jalf Man, that term is so fucking stupid.
 
I want to be a proper software architect one day :F
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's been done before. Pretty google-able. I had it myself. But I don't have access to my backup now
 
@jalf you seem to have missed the last two years of my vocal discourse about this place
 
1:15 PM
@BartekBanachewicz There's no such thing.
 
@thecoshman :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes someone has to design big systems, no?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It can't be stupid. It has Greek etymology! And chi. 'Nuff said
 
@BartekBanachewicz in big companies sure... but to what end?
 
I mean I see an Architect like someone who has a complete overview over the system components.
That means he can't dive really deep into each component, but knows how they will interact with each other on the boundaries.
That way teams receive clear instructions to what API should a particular component produce, and then they are linked together to create the whole system.
 
1:18 PM
@BartekBanachewicz That's usually a recipe for disaster because in practice, you need to have some more detailed knowledge about the individual components in order to define how they should interact
 
I just think about architects versus engineers and immediately have a strong urge to replace any use of the word "architect" in a software development context with the word "idiot".
 
@jalf isn't it the basic principle of abstraction? "The black box" and stuff?
@jalf oh well.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You can't design the black boxes from a black box point of view.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sure, but I'm not aware of many cases where it works at the human level, effectively saying "this guy doesn't need to look at the code, he just describes what the involved components should look like to the outside world"
 
Treating stuff as black boxes is good when you are making use of them, not designing them.
 
1:21 PM
then the heads of components should give him the input on how they will look inside
it effectively makes the architect the mediator between the teams.
 
Heck, you run into it any time you try to define even a small library yourself: if you start out specifying the API you like, and then try to implement the library internals to match it, you almost always come to the realization that "the API I initially wanted isn't gonna work. I need to make some changes to it"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes mmm. You can. It won't make for quality implementations though
 
@jalf if you do it completely opposite, you'll fuck up the API instead.
 
Yes, there is more than one way of doing it wrong. I don't see how that helps.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Definitely. I'm not saying it's the wrong way to approach library design, I'm just highlighting that even when you do it this way on a small scale (and I think it is the correct way), you still get it wrong, and you still have to iteratively fix it, based on what you've learned about the internals of the system
Having a person who is not supposed to know about the internals design the API basically severs that feedback loop
 
1:23 PM
I never said he is not supposed to know about the internals
I said that he is supposed to have an overview
 
7 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
That means he can't dive really deep into each component, but knows how they will interact with each other on the boundaries.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :) It helps because of sad realities
 
"not dive really deep" != "not knowing shit about the internals"
 
@BartekBanachewicz triple negation, yay!
 
triple negation tripped trifle trumpeteers
 
1:25 PM
@jalf The fact he can't dive deep into the implementation doesn't mean he isn't concerned with implementation at all.
 
Just apply DeMorgan's Law
 
In practice I don't think they're so different though. If you can't, or aren't willing to, dive into the messy internals of a component, then that severely limits the knowledge of the internals
 
it's basically the man-hours limit :P
that being said, proper architect should work round the clock.
 
IOW in order for your big grand overview to be useful, you have to be able and willing to dive deep when required. You may work to minimize the frequency at which you need to do this, but you stil have to do it sometimes, IMO
 
@jalf agreed.
 
1:27 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, but that's when I question the need for such a mediator. Why can't the teams agree it out by themselves?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Could you please explain the Micro SF/F Fiction tweet that you retweeted? I’m not sure I get it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because sometimes one API can be used by more than one other team. And then two teams can't simply change something, because it would have an impact on others.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So what? I wasn't suggesting teams to pair up secretly against others.
 
Also, I object to the "architect" title on a more semantic level. It's a nonsense title when applied to software dev. It's kind of like manager classes. The name by itself obscures that "I'm not really sure what this role means". But when people build houses, which I know nothing about, they have architects, so I'm gonna assume that what I'm doing is "architecting"
 
@KonradRudolph The lovely thing about @microsff is that you have to fill out the context yourself :)
You mean the one about the syllables?
 
1:29 PM
yes
 
"guy who knows the high level design of how the big components fit together and what functional the system as a whole offers" ... bit of a mouth full
 
@KonradRudolph I saw it as someone making some sort of Faustian pact to save his daughter, and paying the price of never remembering her name again (her name has more than three syllables).
 
I am here. You may now begin celebrating.
 
Anyway, on most of the teams I've seen that had an "architect", it's just been a code work for "the guy in charge of making everything enterprisey and applying design patterns"
 
ok, fuck it then. I'll just be a Software Engineer.
 
1:30 PM
In theory, the "high level overview" role may make sense, but in practice, it tends to become the refuge of people who think that understanding of the code isn't required in order to design the code
 
And now I realised I assumed a father.
A few weeks back he tweeted asking what assumptions did his readers make about the characters in his "micro-stories", and now I think about it all the time.
 
@jalf funny you should say that ¬_¬
 
fuck the most vexing parse
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, that makes sense
 
@jalf ask tony for advice on that
 
1:40 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes because, incompetence is much nicer in groups and hierarchies!
 
About architects, they seem to be slightly above average in competence, if I should speak from experience.
 
Yeah. I don't hate my architects
But then again, most "Architects" were basically just "Lead Devs" bestowed with privileges to talk to more customer representatives and make decisions for them.
 
is there any way to make it so, in terminal, scrolling works in vim?
 
"scrolling"?
use HJKL
 
I don't like using those keys because I GOTTA GO FAST
 
user784668
1:50 PM
Using arrows means you don't know how to use vim.
 
@Crowz ekhem?
 
user784668
Using hjkl means you don't know how to use vim.
 
what?
ah, I forget you are so elite haxxor
 
I don't know how to use vim very well, I just know how to do basic edits, like finding words or going to specific lines. All I really do in it is python
 
now we're gonna hear some BS on more sophisticated text navigation
 
1:51 PM
@BartekBanachewicz hax0r, FTFY
 
@Crowz go to line is :<number>
 
@BartekBanachewicz No we're not.
@BartekBanachewicz 124G
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz or <number>gg, or <number>G, both having the advantage of not requiring enter.
 
hmm?
:24
go to line 24
 
I don't mind hitting enter
 
1:53 PM
Who said I mind
 
It's big and it feels good.
3
 
chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/10770051#10770051 ~mystical should? Google/Amazon does no? @EtiennedeMartel
 
I don't mind doing that in command mode not in the editing mode
 
@BartekBanachewicz Irrelevant and TMI
@BartekBanachewicz see what I mean - clean desk policy i.stack.imgur.com/bm0zQ.png
 
lol; crow is still here?
 
1:55 PM
haxxed 2 limbo prolly
 
@sehe these spaces are so fcking annoying :/
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah I know that one
 
sophisticated text navigation is a funny phrase
 
discombulated speck levitation
 
+1 also PEBKAC may be my new favorite acronym
the problem is the people it's targeted towards probably won't get it -.-"
 
1:57 PM
Disorganised Spock levity.
 
@EiyrioüvonKauyf OK, it's probably safe to assume I'm not targeted.
@EiyrioüvonKauyf Please tell me it's not something SQL..
 

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