« first day (986 days earlier)      last day (3964 days later) » 

7:00 PM
doing Widget x = Widget{} is bad, so swapping it to use auto is not changing the problem
@Mysticial ah, I see what your view point is
 
@thecoshman i am glad you agree
 
@Mysticial You can't tell if HDD lies or not.
 
@thecoshman swapping Widget w{} to whatever weird stuff that is equivalent but involves more concepts is bad.
it seems you agree to me about that
@thecoshman but you are saying i "missed" your point? what point?
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb yes and no. I do not think that using auto makes that bad code any worse.
 
@thecoshman so you are saying doing "auto x = Widget{};" instead of "Widget x{};" does not make the code any worse
but you say that "auto x = Widget{};" is "bad code"
so are you saying that "Widget x{};" is "bad code"?
 
7:02 PM
Sure it is, it's in C++.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb no. I am saying that Widget x = Widget{} is bad, and using auto x = Widget{} is not any worse. They are both wrong and should just be Widget x
 
@thecoshman herb does not seem to agree with you
(but don't be afraid, I do agree with you!)
 
ooooh, well if Herb says it
And I very much doubt Herb is suggesting auto x = Widget{}; over Widget x;
 
JBL
@JohannesSchaub-litb Ok. Will give a shot, we'll see. (Though I can't really judge...)
 
@thecoshman He probably values consistency, which is also an argument for using auto f() -> declarators even for functions that don't need trailing return type.
 
7:05 PM
@thecoshman that is what I am saying all these lines over when i said that i think he is overdoing it with his "auto"-porns
 
5 mins ago, by Luc Danton
@JohannesSchaub-litb What if there are several such variables being initialized in a block?
auto i = 42;
auto j = 4;
auto k = Widget {};
Widget w {}; // Odd one out
 
int i =42;
int j = 4;
Widget k, w;
 
@LucDanton looks odd at first, I agree.
but IMO not reason enough to complicate things.
if the three "auto" things are removed, a lone "Widget w{};" looks not odd anymore
 
@thecoshman How does that help?
 
also, adding a blank line looks no odd anymore IMO
 
7:08 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb Yes, if you change my example completely, then it doesn't matter anymore.
 
 auto i{42};
 auto j{4};

 Widget w{};
 
@thecoshman Duplicating types from the literals.
 
seems to look sane
 
Still inconsistent.
 
@CatPlusPlus ?
@LucDanton help what?
 
7:09 PM
I almost ran Eclipse with 4096GB heap.
 
@Mysticial not that we're aware of. (I seriously doubt it)
 
@thecoshman With the inconsistency. One line does not look like the others, even though the author may want to group them logically.
 
tada, all are using "{..}" now
or is this inconsistent in the way of "ohh not all var decls use auto... dammit"
 
user142019
The Escapist nightcore edition is awesome.
 
7:10 PM
Yes.
 
@rightfold huh?
 
@LucDanton and? why should they all look the same? The only reason they should all look the same is if they are the same.
 
Will there be vods of Herb's talk?
 
"Consistency" is a hard concept.
 
@Borgleader yeah
 
user142019
7:11 PM
@jalf The Escapist is a song and somebody edited it to make it better.
 
@CatPlusPlus consistency is generally overrated
 
@thecoshman 'even though the author may want to group them logically'
That's the reason. All of it.
 
Your input classes appear to be inconsistent.
 
auto x = 10;
void f() {

}
inconsistent?
 
7:12 PM
@LucDanton how is all that stuff in your example 'consistent' in the first place? If you want to group a bunch of variable initialisation, just use some white space.
 
the function is not declared using auto
 
7 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
@thecoshman He probably values consistency, which is also an argument for using auto f() -> declarators even for functions that don't need trailing return type.
 
i think i disagree
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Then change it?
 
@LucDanton then it still is inconsistent because the function definition does not have a = in it
 
7:13 PM
Then use a generic lambda.
 
Well it doesn't have to be generic I suppose.
 
why so much bullshit?
 
What bullshit?
 
7:14 PM
wow, they have a roadmap for C++ conformance?
 
Just use a better language.
 
fanny farting around trying to make things look ~pretty~
 
Goodbye.
 
Good afternoon fellahs
 
nonstatic data member initializers in vs2013, woo...
 
7:16 PM
...cleaning the appartment
 
well, or at least according to Herb, anyway. I'll believe it when I see it
also = default
 
he's talking LIVE now!
 
aye
 
link
 
and = delete
 
7:17 PM
if only he would quote litb in one of his slides :D
 
DId anyone get the first 15 minutes?
I missed those
 
i would become famous!
 
You can just run the number generator again. That will give you the next number. — Mysticial 9 secs ago
 
mmm coffee
 
@jalf Damn that fucker silverlight.
 
7:20 PM
@Griwes works fine here without SL (they support Flash instead)
 
Oh, now it started.
For some reason, it didn't want to realize it can do that after turning moonlight off.
 
MS VC 2013 RTM will have nonstatic member initializers, =delete, =default, using aliases, C++14 std lib type aliases
5
Anyone care to pin this?
oh wow, I think he's about to say C99 :o
 
now he's going on about "long long{}" i guess xD
 
user142019
@ScottW Owned.
 
how "auto x = (long long){}" can be done hehe
 
7:25 PM
@jalf AAAAAAAA
FINALLY
 
o_0 MSVC didn't have implicate movableness?
 
Sounds like that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, take it with a grain of salt. This is just Herb saying "we don't have this in the preview, but it will be in RTM"
 
FIX THOSE WEIRD BUGS IN PREVIEW FIRST, Herb! :D
 
@jalf how much time 'till RTM?
 
7:26 PM
@BartekBanachewicz no clue. He might have said in the first 15 mins that I missed
 
@BartekBanachewicz 6 to 8 weeks.
 
@jalf crap. That might impact the code I'll write for Lundi :/
@CatPlusPlus :D
 
Oh man, that guy in that hat :D
 
@Griwes very dapper :P
 
@Griwes oh wow, only just noticed him
Epic
He's got the mustache that Herb used to have!
Clearly he's aspiring to be the next generation of C++ guru
 
7:29 PM
does MSVC have a setting to tell it not allow things that are not yet standard?
 
can we have struct A { private: auto f(); }; and have f never defined in that TU?
 
@thecoshman not afaik VS2010 didn't wrt. C++11 features
 
"Hardly two months ago approved", but implemented in GCC since ever/
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb hmm... don't think so...
 
:D
 
7:30 PM
@thecoshman why?
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Herb just said "you obviously need a definition for that".
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb well... you could do I guess... but it would require working it out at link time...
 
if nothing calls it outside the A.cc (impl of "A")
@Griwes it is defined in A.cpp
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Ok, that would make sense.
 
@Griwes heh, your stream is a minute or two ahead of mine
 
7:31 PM
Heh.
 
// what is the difference?
void send(message && m) { do_send(move(m)); }
void send(message m) { do_send(move(m)); }
 
<shudders> 'stood bind'
 
@jalf I'M A TIME TRAVELER
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked One takes a reference and one takes a value.
 
Evening
 
7:32 PM
MOVE CAPTURE
 
user142019
@Griwes No.
 
user142019
send(message()) oh my a move!
 
@Griwes user calls it like this: send(move(my_message));
 
Yeah, I'm a bit slow today.
 
hm, arbitrary state
it looks nice really.
you know
 
7:34 PM
Why did no-one shout "GENERIC LAMBDAS", huh.
 
C++14 is really getting close to a nice language
like really
 
lord! teaching people about 'auto' is going take fucking ages!
 
user142019
BUT DYNAMIC TYPING IS SO BAD DON'T USE auto!
5
 
it's the easiest feature ever
 
user142019
7:35 PM
@StackedCrooked I'd say decltype.
 
o_0 @rightfold terrible attempt at a troll
 
user142019
Is it possible to negate a constraint in Haskell?
 
user142019
Like, having a function that takes an argument of any type except for types which are instances of a certain type class?
 
"that was just approved two months ago" is constantly ringing in my head now.
 
what does "later this year" mean
 
7:38 PM
@rightfold Hm.. in C++ you could just write an overload on the required type. Does haskell have something like this?
 
two months? 6 months?
6-8 weeks?
 
@BartekBanachewicz depends on who's saying it
 
@BartekBanachewicz Released on 31.12.2013
 
@Griwes That's what I fear
 
tat's just SUPER COOL! it got features just TWO MONTHS AGO approved. oh my GOD! it's so bleeding edge!
 
7:39 PM
@rightfold Reminds me when someone said that using var in C# because it caused the object to become late bound. Or something.
 
noone else has it!!!^^1
 
The MSVC compiler didnt have ASTs o.O
 
@rightfold did you invent that joke yourself? it's quite clever.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked Well, if you use type classes you can overload functions, but AFAIK the only remotely similar thing is making the function body undefined, but that is at runtime.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Yeah, "TWO MONTHS AGO" is today's anthem.
 
user142019
7:39 PM
@StackedCrooked No, a Java programmer in the Java Sucks room did it when I told him about C#'s var.
 
user142019
And he wasn't joking, actually.
 
<h1>TWO MONTHS AGO!!!</h1>
lol
 
lol, "our compiler is very robust"
 
Theyre going to fix two phase lookup
 
@Borgleader for reals?
 
7:40 PM
@Borgleader damn you
 
yes, they have to use EDG for code completion because their's is just so broken
 
@jalf yeah theyre adding asts to the compiler in order to do that and other things
 
user142019
Does C++14 fix the most horrible bug in C++, namely that the order of declaration of functions and classes is significant?
 
@rightfold lol
 
@rightfold that's not a bug, it's a feature :P
 
7:41 PM
TWO MONTHS AGO
 
dynamic arrays
:/
 
again
 
god really.
 
Damn.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked Assuming outside of classes. :P
 
7:42 PM
Yeah.
 
MICROSOFT IS GOING TO FINALLY FIX THEIR BROKEN C++98 CONFORMANCE! Hell *has* frozen over. #1998calledtheywanttheirtwophaselookupback
2
 
It's a nice feature of inner classes that they can refer to each other without requiring forward declarations.
 
lol
 
They wanna do concepts o.O
 
user142019
7:43 PM
Oh wait, did I say it was the most horrible bug in C++?
 
concepts lite :F
 
i hope concepts lite will not get in
 
@Borgleader oh gawd
 
user142019
I just realized I forgot about the preprocessor.
 
Could someone just make that terrible thing called concepts lite die? :F
 
7:44 PM
What's so bad about it?
 
@rightfold That's good, isn't it?
 
We want concepts. We don't want concepts lite. :F
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb yeah, I'm not sold on it either
 
user142019
@not-TonyTheLion It's a bug and must be fixed.
 
i like the real concepts much better (without the c++0x-fail features).
 
7:44 PM
@rightfold oh
bugz
 
@rightfold No. What operations would be possible on that?
 
But stroustrup will probably keep making them in.
:F
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus It would be nice for something I had in mind earlier today but I forgot what it was exactly.
 
No, it wouldn't.
 
user142019
Yes, it would.
 
7:46 PM
Maybe it would.
 
Maybe it wouldn't.
 
For those who didn't watch ^
I've added my own feat.
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
Seriously, what operations are possible on a type that's "everything but not Num"?
 
user142019
7:47 PM
Prelude> let would = \x -> x + 1
Prelude> 42
42
Prelude> :t maybe it would
maybe it would :: Maybe Integer -> Integer
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked :D
 
It's so environment-dependent it's not even funny. You can't reason about that.
 
@CatPlusPlus convert_to_num?
 
lol
 
@StackedCrooked No.
 
7:48 PM
typical
=default but you can't =default move constructor/operator
 
@jalf :O finally! (and when do we get RTM?)
 
@melak47 No clue, but my guess would be (very) late 2013
 
._.
 
Wait, .then and stuff didn't get into the draft?
 
What is RTM?
 
7:49 PM
Release to Manufacturing (= final build)
 
user142019
Read The Manual
 
@StackedCrooked Read The (regular, not fucking) Manual
 
user142019
Read The Automated
 
user142019
Because fuck manual.
 
wtf is .get
 
7:52 PM
Hrm, I designed the async and await stuff the same way he just presented it for my not yet existant pet language!
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz part of a member access expression.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's a hidden file
 
@jalf Silverlight? Really?
 
!i.get(it);
 
user142019
Goldheavy.
 
7:53 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Does that surprise you?
 
33 mins ago, by jalf
@Griwes works fine here without SL (they support Flash instead)
 
@StackedCrooked No. But it's still depressing.
 
@Lundin you don't get it? :p
 
@rightfold uh
 
user142019
Also, what Silverlight?
 
user142019
7:54 PM
I don't see any Silverlight on that page.
 
I don't mind that it's Silverlight. It's working pretty well on my Chrome browser on Mac.
 
Ayahahahahahaha, the code he has just shown.
 
Better than flash.
 
@melak47 Only language allowed in this chat is C++, yes? So forget about this English thing.
 
7:55 PM
I thought that blue screen was a BSOD
 
Is File.delete valid ruby?
 
user142019
If C++ gets the async stuff with .then and .get then it's either going to suck donkey cock more than overload resolution or they must have some nice syntactic sugar for it.
 
@rightfold He's just talking about that nice syntax sugar they are working on.
 
Why make_shared and not make_unique?
 
@EtiennedeMartel because it needs to be shared o_0
 
7:56 PM
auto next = ... next ...;
 
user142019
@Griwes I haven't watched the entire video yet.
 
what? __await? o_O
 
he got an error there
 
delete English; language &= C++;
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb he clearly said it probably didn't work
 
7:56 PM
@Abyx __await. An extension they are working on.
 
that's cool
 
user142019
__async and __await look orgasmically like C#.
 
user142019
Awesome.
 
@StackedCrooked Yup, it is
 
@rightfold __async and __await look exactly like ReaverLang's async and await.
 
7:59 PM
not sure what __await is.
 
@Jeffrey lol, it was a joke (look two lines above my comment)
 
how does it work. didn't understand
 
Or almost.
@JohannesSchaub-litb It's a syntactic sugar for more efficient .then.
 
again the two months thing xD
 
user142019
@JohannesSchaub-litb Compiler generates state machine and callback hell for you so you don't have to do it yourself.
 
7:59 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb I didn't move my OS projects for 2 months
 
Did the build stream end already?
 

« first day (986 days earlier)      last day (3964 days later) »