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user142019
5:04 PM
@Ell HTML with Bootstrap
 
@rightfold So hipster.
 
user142019
Hipsters use Pages.
 
user142019
@Ell Use Pages.
 
user142019
inb4 "Pages? o.O"
 
@JerryCoffin I thought we actually had some pretty simple and objective criteria: you said that initializing D3D and getting it to the point where you're ready to render was "hundreds of lines of code", and that OpenGL wasn't. So we could just measure the lines of code in each case. I don't think that's a "cheap arguing trick". (unlike, I might add, "it's easier to say what's not broken, but I won't give you an example of what is broken about the API" ;)
 
Ell
5:06 PM
@rightfold heh :L
We already had the pages talk earlier though
 
user142019
Never use "o.O" or any equivalent.
 
O.o
 
user142019
GTFO
 
TIL: it's a "cheap arguing trick" to ask people for evidence to back up their claims
 
Setting up OpenGL is pretty simple.
 
user142019
5:11 PM
Setting up DirectX is pretty simple.
 
user142019
Anyway just use three.js. :D
 
Aside from this it's just setting up the window, which you have do either way.
 
user142019
It depends on the platform.
 
user142019
But yeah DirectX is only available on Windows so for the comparison it's fine.
 
5:15 PM
i just carried my GFs box of stuff up here
 
GLX isn't that much more complicated either.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Did you die?
 
@rightfold docs are nonexistent, it's inconsistent and occasional bugs happen
 
user142019
Cocoa is quite easy too.
 
also based on WebGL which at this point is still crappy as fuck
@Borgleader apparently not, huh?
 
5:16 PM
@BartekBanachewicz What're you trying to build?
 
You know what I meant. Was it heavy enough that you thought "oh god this is gonna kill me"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum what?
@Borgleader it wasn't, I am just not exercising enough
gotta move my lazy ass during the summer
Well, if I get some cash I will go to play golf :3
 
You're talking about graphics libraries. I was wondering you're actually trying to build.
 
Xeo
Hm. Maybe I should ask a question of how garbage collection would help lock-free algorithms and lazy-evaluation stuff.
 
@BartekBanachewicz How is playing golf exercise? "Whak a ball, get in the cart" (repeat)
(Source) :P
 
5:19 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum i just went in the middle of the conversation. Three.js isn't obviously buildable
 
@Borgleader how about circa 15km walk over 6-7 hours in any weather?
but yeah, I agree that perhaps is not for exercising raw strength
also I got a beer for my effort, yay.
 
Graphics libraries suck. Three.js is nice for basic stuff from my experience but it gets really shitty when you want it to do stuff it doesn't cover (which is often) and WebGL support is annoying and shitty. Not to mention canvas, which is weak too. Best bet is to compile existing code from LLVM bytecode.
 
user142019
How are GUI libraries relevant?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Three.js is 3D, not gui library
 
5:21 PM
o_0 I think my cat just confiscated a toy from me
 
Yeah yeah, terminology
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum ...
 
The UI just snuck in that sentence, it was never intended to be there in my mind.
(something like unrealengine.com/html5 )
 
Can we execute multiple file with main() in makefile?
 
@user2500861 yes we can!
if we believe
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol
 
user142019
@user2500861 Let's try again when you ask an actual question.
 
@user2500861 better question, can we potato?
 
user142019
Oh, you're that guy. :D
 
@StackedCrooked I have client.cpp file and from this I am sending string to server.cpp file. server has server has three file: server.cpp[with main], functions.cpp and functions.h
now can I execute client and server files in single makefile?
 
5:29 PM
@rightfold he is famous
 
user142019
You don't execute .cpp files.
 
@user2500861 you don't execute files in a makefile, not typically and prolly not what you want
 
@BartekBanachewicz I mean compile all of them in one shot, is it possible?
 
@user2500861 yes. But I recommend not using makefiles, SCons is much better
and by far more intuitive
 
@BartekBanachewicz ok, as we do in windows creating executable file to execute directly, is there any way in linux so we can directly play with output without compiling each file seperately?
 
5:35 PM
@user2500861 it's totally unclear for me what you want to do.
Also my SCons scripts work under linux and windows no problem, yet another reason to use it
 
user142019
all: server client

server:
⇥$CC server.c -o server

client:
⇥$CC client.c -o client
 
@BartekBanachewicz can you please tell me how scon script works? I googled but did not understand it
 
@user2500861 it's more or less p = Program([a.cpp, b.cpp])
it works automagically
i mean you can set more options, compiler defines and stuff
but in general, it just works
just read the SCons manual
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah thanks buddy
 
user142019
inb4 he asks how to install Python
 
5:43 PM
:10164359
server:
g++ server.cpp -o server
client:
g++ client.cpp -o client

I thinks this is right, am i?
 
@rightfold meh, 'how to install Scons', python is installed by default on most distros
@user2500861 yes, just add all: server client, and use $CC variable for compiler
 
okay
 
and don't use makefiles
really, they are so baaaaaad
 
user142019
 
user142019
Needs more downvotes.
 
5:45 PM
@rightfold fuck you it's reddit :S
 
user142019
So? Reddit has downvote functionality.
 
user142019
Downvoting is Reddit's best feature. Just like on Stack Overflow.
 
i can't downvote if I am not logged in
 
@BartekBanachewicz what rightfold suggested is using makefile only. I have noticed most of programmer using makefile only
 
and I don't have a reddit account
@user2500861 that doesn't mean makefiles are good. They are bad, and the fact people use them is just the sign that people are dumb.
 
user142019
5:47 PM
Ehm.
 
user142019
Using makefiles doesn't mean you're dumb.
 
user142019
In fact, makefiles work just fine.
 
Makefiles are just lowest common denominator, really
 
user142019
Everything is better than CMake.
 
Xeo
@rightfold Wtf is that code even doing
 
user142019
5:50 PM
@Xeo Being terrible yet being upvoted.
 
Xeo
I see virtuals, some kind of instance crap, then shared_ptr and a generate function...
WTF
 
@rightfold Upvoted so it can be humiliated?
 
I wonder whether it would make sense to have a "pimpl using declaration", or alternative, an "object using declaration" (neutrally termed)
 
Xeo
// my_print1 destructor called when r goes out of scope
auto r = iprint::generate<my_print1>();
// call singleton function
iprint::get().print();
// change to my_print2 implementation, my_print1 goes out of scope here
iprint::replace<my_print2>(r);
// call singleton function
iprint::get().print();
Just WTF did that guy smoke
 
like this: struct Widget { using public widgetImpl; WidgetImpl *widgetImpl; };
 
Xeo
5:51 PM
I don't think "WTF" can even express my thoughts right now
 
user142019
@Xeo Java.
 
Xeo
@rightfold Even that can't give the idea of a "scoped singleton"
 
then that would declare all public functions of "widgetImpl" again in Widget and would forward the calls to widgetImpl
 
user142019
@Xeo The scope is global!
 
Xeo
@rightfold Look at the example in the code again.
It's scoped inside a scope in main
It depends on a std::shared_ptr going out of scope and destroying the "singleton".
It even needs to be explicitly reset.
I don't even...
 
5:53 PM
some details need to be thought of, like preventing that the functions are inline. perhaps "using public widgetImpl;" will just declare the functions and an out of line "using public Widget::widgetImpl;" in the .cc file will implement the functions
 
user142019
@Xeo Then it's like, not a singleton.
 
:10164359
all: server client

server:
g++ server.cpp -o server

client:
g++ client.cpp -o client
I put this in makefile and executed make command
which gives "makefile:4: *** missing separator. Stop." error
 
Xeo
@rightfold What I see is this: Create an object with T::generate<U> (where T is the singleton-derived superclass for stuff, and U is the stuff). Now that object is accessible through T::get(). at the end of the scope, the std::shared_ptr from generate is destroyed, taking the "singleton" with it.
 
Cllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnn‌​nnnnnngggggggggggggggggggg
is a fucking nightmare. :c
 
lol
what part of Clang are you dealing with?
 
5:56 PM
I don't even know. The AST consumer thingymahjigger?
 
Ell
The mighty boosh is so awesome
 
That walks through a single Translation Unit?
 
what about the AST consumer?
oh, and FYI, it's amazingly difficult to just walk through a TU with Clang.
lots of pieces you need to put together.
take my advice, steal Wide's code
 
But
But but but I must learn. ;~;
Also you never accepted my Pull Request! D:<
 
it is confusing that in the Clang ast, partial specializations don't derive from TemplateDeclaration :)
 
5:58 PM
I'm still trying to figure out if I think it's actually an improvement that is worth that ridiculous diff
 
I some how forgot just how much effort has to be put into 3D stuff :P
 
@DeadMG Just look at it from the commit point of view. There's 3 commits: the first one is where hg is balls-retarded, where even if I use hg rename and hgaddremove it still makes a MILLION diffs.
I separated them out to be the second and the third one, which show the actual changes to files (which are small, but helpful)
 
what I'll probably do is not accept the request, but take some of the changes on an individual basis
but, I ate something I shouldn't have yesterday so my brain is concrete today
 
@anatolyg: The question asks what the consequences are of garbage collection in C++14. There are none, because there is none. That is the answer to his question. My opinion is just a note, really. — DeadMG 1 hour ago
^^ lol nice
 
@DeadMG it's the bane of your existence :)
 
6:01 PM
Makefile:4: *** missing separator. Stop.
what does this indicate?
 
@user2500861 you have to use TAB
 
where?
 
That you shouldn't be using make.
 
@thecoshman Seriously. Unless you make a very small 3D game with a very tiny subset of 3D put into a very simplistic form (Minecraft), you can forget about developing anything usable within a half-years' time, unless you grab a preexisting engine.
 
@DeadMG don't your owners stop you from eating the carpets?
 
6:02 PM
2D, though, is quite a sight simpler.
@DeadMG =[[[[[[[ Don't do that it's a helpful thing I promiiise. ;~;
 
@ThePhD yeah I know. I just forgot just how slow it is :P
 
Don't ping me with crappy makefiles tia.
 
Ell
@ThePhD Don't discourage him! :o
 
@Ell I'm just being honest. D:
 
@Ell it's not discouraging, nor is it news to me
 
Talk to the Bin
 
Is that a new version of "talk to the hand"?
 
You know, it does sound like that....
I never thought of it that way.
Guys
is there any way to
at compile-time
tag a struct with information?
You usually do that with an empty struct, right?
 
yes
 
struct my_tag {}; struct my_thing : public my_tag {};
 
6:17 PM
Ah, okay.
 
look at the Standard iterator tags
 
I was gonna make a no_reflect reflect tag-like thingy.
That people could apply to their source.
Is there any way to tag member variables with additional compile-time information?
 
Reminds me of boost::static_visitor
 
@jalf: I find it hard to believe that you could be missing the point so completely except by intent. The cheap arguing trick wasn't about counting lines of code, it was attempting to put the entire onus of proof on me. I've already pointed out what MS says. You (along withe DeadMG) are the one claiming that's unnecessarily verbose. If you want to claim that DX can be initialized and used with a lot less code that MS says is required, it seems to me that the onus of proving that is on you.
 
try C++11 attributes
 
6:18 PM
Like
@DeadMG Well that's not portable to MSVC I don't think?
 
nor is generating reflection information with Clang.
 
... Does MSVC have C++11 attributes? I never even used attributes, much less know what they look like...
 
Why are the elements getting initialized with zero - codepad.org/4QTCAybB? Shouldn't they be garbage?
 
@ShuklaSannidhya zero is garbage too.
 
Lightness talked about this
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ^ Your pet peeve just happened.
 
6:21 PM
@ShuklaSannidhya brace initializer initializes the rest of the elements to zero.
 
@ThePhD oh?
ffs "stdio.h"
 
@jalf: You also seem to have assumed that all use of OpenGL must be done the way you've decided to. Worse, the code you're talking about doesn't even seem to be actual OpenGL code at all, but the way Microsoft has chosen to implement the interface between their windowing system and OpenGL (but, of course, they're not biased toward DX, so when their interface to OGL is clumsy, it's clearly the fault of OGL).
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Look at the codepad. I'm trying to find the self-question-answer you wrote about it, but I'm not having much luck.
 
dem lack of braces
 
Ell
@ShuklaSannidhya Why does it matter if it's not garbage?
Why would extra effort be put into initializing things as garbage?
 
6:25 PM
@Ell You should change your profile picture... You look like @LucDanton
 
user142019
C++ is garbage no matter what.
 
@ShuklaSannidhya you need glasses.
LucDanton starts with an ell, and Ell starts with an E.
 
@rubenvb Ah, well now it makes sense. Thanks for sharing.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit FFS you've answered so many questions, I can't even find what I want about mystruct s = { 0 };
 
@rubenvb We're talking about pictures not names.
 
@ShuklaSannidhya They are always next to each other. Maybe you need a fish lens.
BTW, C (vf)printf in its most beautiful form (according to the interwebz) is stull f-ugly: git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/src/stdio/vfprintf.c
 
6:30 PM
@rubenvb They are always next to each other - You need a telescope.
 
Next. To. Each. Other.
ffs
Anyway, now I have a MIT-licensed (vf)printf to play with.
Let's see what it takes to make this work on Windows.
 
@rubenvb Three virgins and a cheerful dog.
 
@rubenvb I like how fmt_fp is 230 lines long. Didn't they heard of short functions?
 
@rubenvb no names... only pictures... Need telescope?
 
6:34 PM
@milleniumbug well, honestly, that's going to be a bitch of a function any way you write it.
 
Go
Clang is such a massive mess.
 
The userlist is extra useless.
 
@ShuklaSannidhya why are you even looking at that? Also: ever heard of mouse-hovering?
The userlist is only cool around Christmas.
 
@rubenvb mouse-hovering? :effort:
@CatPlusPlus I wanna do a run through dark souls where I play the entire game without leveling up at all. :D
 
@rubenvb Well I/O is hardly easy. I once tried writing iostream/cstdio replacement, and I didn't know what to start with.
 
6:35 PM
@rubenvb I have no idea why but reading this made me lose my train of thought.
gahh
 
@ThePhD But but enormous weapons.
 
Oh!
 
@CatPlusPlus You can get it -after- you get to NG+. :D
 
@rubenvb aargh... You win! Congratulations! @Ell Don't change your picture. It's nice and it never looks like that of Luc.
 
Nobody cares about the user list.
 
6:37 PM
@ShuklaSannidhya What did I win?
@CatPlusPlus Oh, look, you're using punctuation today.
 
It's the International Day of Appreciating Dots.
 
Must be one special day for cats.
 
@CatPlusPlus i plonk people from it
 
@CatPlusPlus IDAD?
 
6:38 PM
You can plonk by clicking on their name <--
 
"Bartek is awesome"
 
@rubenvb It's crazier than Rio.
Mercurial cloning is slow. :<
 
Meh.
"Clang is easier to use for tooling" like perky tits, it is. ._.
 
@Rapptz i know, I just find it more official :D
 
@CatPlusPlus And there's so many tropical birds in Rio.
 
6:40 PM
Mehcurial
6
 
user142019
I'm going to write a video game.
 
@rightfold Make it 2D and make it out of ASCII art.
 
user142019
That was my idea. :v
 
@rightfold you won't finish it anyway
 
user142019
Well, more like text-based.
 
6:41 PM
you tried that one already
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz doesn't mean it won't be fun.
 
I'd recomend the SFML library
 
I completely forgot what I was doing.
 
Finishing projects is meh.
 
user142019
By the way, I finished something yesterday!
 
6:42 PM
@ThePhD Chatting.
 
@rightfold WHOA, WHAT?
 
Ell
@rightfold was it yourself?
 
Let us see, let us see!
 
Argh it just cloned half of it.
 
user142019
Well, together with a friend.
 
6:42 PM
It's been like 10 minutes already.
 
Oh.
I got all excited.
 
@rightfold so did he finish you or did you finish together?
 
@DeadMG Cmoon, accept my Pull Request.
 
@DouwevanGijn i wouldn't :P
 
user142019
I finished it.
 
user142019
6:43 PM
He did the design and I did the implementation.
 
user142019
I was the last one to touch it, so I finished it.
 
@DeadMG I only made it because it'll really benefit Wide and work with the newer versions of LLVM and get around their breaking changes. <333
You'll like it I promise~
 
dude, concrete brain
I'll look at it later
 
Just trust me and accept it. <3
 
user142019
> Freezin', rests his head on a pillow made of concrete, again
 
6:46 PM
@ThePhD Watno, I don't even have trunk Clang/LLVM so if I took your pull, then I'd be breaking my own code.
 
@DeadMG Then just update to the latest LLVM/Clang. Why would you use old LLVM / Clang anyhow? D:
 
because CONCRETEBRAIN
 
~Siiiiiigh~
Fiiiiiiiiine.
 
user142019
I cannot pick a programming language.
 
user142019
I know too many of them.
 
user142019
6:51 PM
PHP! :>
 
@rightfold I actually have to rewrite codepuppy in php.
 
user142019
Why? :(
 
turns out that instead of paying half a dollar a month to host codepuppy on amazon, I was paying 20 dollars (i.e., I was very sloppy)
and I can no longer afford that price
 
user142019
How about Jekyll?
 
so I changed to some free hosting but it only comes with PHP.
is that some shitty static command-line templating crap?
 
user142019
6:53 PM
It's way better than PHP.
 
cause if so, not really feeling it
 
user142019
Pussy.
 
Puppy ftfy
 
I have standards
at least I can code PHP in notepad++ or something
even if it's a far cry from C# in VS
 
user142019
> I have standards. I want to use PHP.
 
6:55 PM
crappy command-line templating engine < PHP
 
@GoldenMedal It's only weird because you don't show the modified code? Also, note that there where several big problems in the code before that point (initializing the matrix from the file, that is. Notably, the return value of fgets should be checked (!!!), vetorDeNumeros should probably not be fixed at 2 elements size (because k will get >1 unless there are at most 2 lines in the input), ... — not-sehe 8 mins ago
... and ordenar(vetorDeNumeros) is undefined behaviour until all elements were initialized - meaning, on my system, that colunas would always end up being zero and nothing would ever happen since 0 columns are processed.. — not-sehe 7 mins ago
 
user142019
Jekyll is not crappy.
 
user142019
You haven't even tried it.
 
^ Now ACCEPT, mother-fucker :D
Here is my attempt to fix it, and it works alright: http://ideone.com/Zz1pRI (you can see the correct output for yourself!). Disclaimer: I haven't checked all of the code for potential problems. — not-sehe 53 secs ago
 
user142019
You're just too ignorant to use the command line.
 
6:55 PM
What do you need PHP for?
Your webpage looked very static.
 
all command-line is crappy
@Rapptz I have some server-side includes, that's pretty much it. I don't have any major need for server-side logic.
 
For what?
 
but it seems that the only static templating engines are even worse than PHP
@Rapptz I don't understand the question.
 
I mean, what server side includes?
 
@DeadMG Well then write scripts locally and then upload locally generated HTML sites.
 
user142019
6:57 PM
I don't understand how you can avoid the command-line if you want to be a programmer.
 
@Rapptz Just re-using some code for site design and stuff. Like I have a base that defines the layout.
@milleniumbug I could, in fact, use a Python script for this very purpose.
 
user142019
How are you going to invoke the Python script?
 
probably by double-clicking it
 

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