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10:04 PM
I'm an antemillennial.
 
@StackedCrooked How about: where is it and how to remeuve?
 
user142019
This segmentation fault is driving me crazy.
 
@sehe find . -name "*.html" | xargs grep UA-37220775-1
 
@StackedCrooked I'll make it grep -Rw 37220775 Web/
 
10:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh
 
I used to get segmentation faults all the time.
 
And now you only get them half the time?
 
I think it coincides with the last time I made anything bigger than a file in C++ :D
 
Is there an easy way to suppress messageboxes? we have third party code that shows em
 
user142019
Oh.
 
user142019
10:09 PM
Apparently a base class in Objective-C must have an instance variable of type Class as the first instance variable.
 
@JohanLarsson I believe you're screwed.
 
user142019
derp :v
 
I often got screwed by memory that was no longer allocated due to things like destructors being called when passing by value. Or, the easier to find out of bounds access, which I also did quite often, strangly.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ok will hack it with autohotkey and all kinds of ugly then
 
 
10:10 PM
@Zoidberg when would you be making something that was not an NSObject?
 
user142019
@JohanLarsson Maybe you could write your own MessageBox method and apply some linker magic but that will hide all message boxes.
 
user142019
@JustinMeiners when you're not using Foundation?
 
@Zoidberg is there anyone who seriously uses objective-C outside of a foundation or a drop in replacement?
 
user142019
Me.
 
wow
what for?
 
10:10 PM
The Universe should, out of a sense of self-preservation, elide anyone that writes non-UI-library library code that makes use of messageboxes or dialogs.
 
user142019
I'm implementing a language and I use the Objective-C runtime since my object model is practically identical and I'm not in the mood to write a runtime myself.
 
ah ok
 
project dropped in 3..2..1...
5
 
Ell
What is similar about your object models?
 
better question
what is different
 
10:12 PM
@JohanLarsson Not easy, but hooking the MessageBox function could be your best bet. The code is laid out to let you do this kind of thing, so no big challenge here.
 
user142019
@JustinMeiners you can't define custom classes without a base class and there are no primitive types.
 
@Zoidberg and will your base class provide similar functionality to NSObject or completely different
 
user142019
Not the same since I don't use reference counting but a garbage collector.
 
interesting - and why the removal of primitive types
 
user142019
Besides that… well it has - (Text*)description. xD
 
10:15 PM
@kbok yeah that is an option ty
 
Ell
I don't believe this is zoidberg
These ideas aren't from him...
He likes functional. Not base class for all object s!
 
@Ell He's crazy.
@Zoidberg What's Text*?
 
probably his own NSString replacement
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes wrapper around ogonek.
 
Did it compile?
 
user142019
10:17 PM
Yes. :D
 
And passed the tests?
 
in his dreams, muahahaha
 
user142019
Maybe. Lemme check. xD
 
@Zoidberg So you're doing a closer imitation of Smalltalk.
 
I don't like the Objective-C runtime. Lots and lots of things are wrong IMO.
The language itself sucks but that's superficial
 
10:18 PM
@kbok hmm what don't you like?
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes no lol
 
user142019
test/lookahead_window.c++:23:10: fatal error: no member named 'iota' in
      namespace 'std'
    std::iota(source.begin(), source.end(), 0);
    ~~~~~^
 
That's a compilation failure...
 
user142019
Yup.
 
And now I'm able to demo it live online too: http://coliru..../view?id=079b418....sehe 16 secs ago
@StackedCrooked GA should be gone now
 
@kbok do you have any reasons - or is your reason it sucks :)
 
The way memory is managed, so horrible java-ish way of handling properties, the implicitness everywhere with catastrophic failures, the lifetime management, the allocation-initialization idiom, all objects as pointers
I could go on
 
@Zoidberg old stdlib
 
It's like a worse java
 
user142019
@Ell Those two are not orthogonal. Look at Ruby.
 
Ell
10:22 PM
I know
 
He knows
 
Ell
I like it too. I just thought you would have gone for something more Haskell like
 
@kbok its hardly similar to java - properties in objectiveC are all about memory management, which is garbage collected in java,
 
Ell
That wasn't a defensive "I know" BTW :P
 
I know.
 
user142019
10:23 PM
Objective-C is like implicit std::shared_ptr and std::weak_ptr everywhere.
 
@JustinMeiners Nope - properties in objective-C are all about mindless code generation
 
user142019
@kbok You rather write the code yourself?
 
I rather have a language that makes sense in the first place
 
hardly - you explicitly define properties as weak or strong and they behave as such there is no implicit
as far as memory
managment like that
 
user142019
(And it is about ownership. The arguments you pass to @property define whether it's retained or not, or auto-nilled.)
 
10:24 PM
I know how it works, thanks
 
@kbok that wasnt for you
 
user142019
@JustinMeiners I wasn't talking about properties.
 
@JustinMeiners That was for Zoidberg :)
 
@Zoidberg Share all the pointers!
 
user142019
10:25 PM
void foo() {
    NSString* a = [NSString new];
}
// is much like
void foo() {
    std::shared_ptr<NSString> a{[NSString new]};
}
 
@kbok anyway I see few similarities to java
@Zoidberg the reference counting is differnt
 
user142019
How.
 
user142019
When all strong references to an object are gone, the object is deleted.
 
in objective-C its stored on the object - so every object is expected to basically be a shared ptr in shared_ptr the retain count is stored in the pointer object
 
@Zoidberg Pointers are owning by default?
 
10:27 PM
they are not
if you lose the pointer to a
its leaked
 
@JustinMeiners No semantic difference.
 
instrusive shared counter - not really different.
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes depends.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it is differnt
 
user142019
If you have __weak pointers or weak properties, then no.
 
10:27 PM
Tell me how.
Write me a program that tells the difference.
 
user142019
Sec.
 
shared ptr will only work if you use shared and weak with all the object interactions - in objective-C a normal pointer can be used everywhere
 
@Zoidberg Not you
 
and all of those
 
user142019
Oh. :P
 
10:28 PM
Is there a clever expression trick to test if a float vec3 is axial (two zero components) without using multiple if?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes does that not answer it for you?
 
So many answers have branches in them...
 
it removes the need for things like shared_from_this etc
 
All those are implementation details.
 
right intrusive vs whatever you call the C++ one
the implementation details
unless you made
strong and weak
a compiler feature
 
user142019
10:30 PM
Pointers to Objective-C objects are owning (shared ownership) unless they are __weak pointers or weak properties. In the latter cases they are automatically nilled when the object is deleted.
 
of normal pointers
@Zoidberg I thought they are be default weak
 
@JustinMeiners That's exactly what Zoidberg meant.
 
user142019
@JustinMeiners see automatic reference counting.
 
@Zoidberg Just like std::weak_ptrs.
 
@Zoidberg oh ok Iin ARC
 
user142019
10:31 PM
If you don't use it, you are either implementing low-level things or you're a fool.
 
user142019
8 mins ago, by Zoidberg
Objective-C is like implicit std::shared_ptr and std::weak_ptr everywhere.
 
@Zoidberg or working on an older code base
 
user142019
Or that. :P
 
ok under arc ill agree
 
Yeah well, huge code bases in Objective-C color me surprised
 
10:32 PM
if that is the case of strong pointer default
 
user142019
If there is a cycle, you'll have a leak unless you break it manually by nilling it.
 
Ell
I wonder how much of a deal memory leaks are
 
user142019
So for delegates (callback objects) you usually use weak properties as in @property(nonatomic, weak) id<SomeDelegate> delegate;.
 
Ell
I guess the environment matters massively
 
user142019
You don't want to leak memory on an iPhone.
 
10:34 PM
leaky leaky
 
user142019
You don't want to leak memory in OS X either since people never close their applications. xD
 
@Zoidberg Just impregnate the damn thing with some super-hydrophobe spray and - don't care about any leakage again :)
 
user142019
I have Chrome, MacVim and Terminal running for a couple of days already.
 
I always make sure to leak a little. Just for the feel of it.
 
I have chrome open since like two months
 
10:35 PM
I never leak, but mny abstractions do
 
user142019
Time to implement a garbage collector.
 
@kbok No wonder world energy reserves are dwindling
@Zoidberg lol. I'm not saying it
 
user142019
Because Objective-C's garbage collector is deprecated. :v
 
user142019
@sehe ?
 
You're deprecated
 
user142019
10:36 PM
Java is deprecated.
 
@Zoidberg Not even if you try to manipulate me into saying it
 
user142019
Into saying what?
 
user142019
 
Hihi. I love this chat
 
user142019
Let's see how I'm going to do this shit.
 
user142019
10:38 PM
bool marked;
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Breeding online compilers like rabbits [c++] [c++11] [no-helpdesk]
So, who's coming up with a new topic line next time?
 
Probably cat.
Or the robot.
 
I thought room topic was going to change to Lounge<Objc>
 
@ScottW I love you :)
 
10:41 PM
All you need is love.
 
user142019
How am I going to check whether an object has a pointer on the fucking stack.
 
@StackedCrooked A little food now and again comes in handy. Oh, and water and air too.
 
user142019
I need to insert calls to enroot and deroot using LLVM.
 
@JerryCoffin Details..
@Zoidberg en route, des routes?
 
@Zoidberg The stack is normally part of your "root set" -- I.e., when you the mark part of your GC cycle, you walk the stack, and find any/all pointers into your GC'd heap. Machine registers likewise.
 
user142019
10:43 PM
I know how mark-and-sweep works. :)
 
@Zoidberg Okay, so why are you asking? Or do you mean: "How will I recognize that something on the heap is a pointer?"
 
user142019
2 mins ago, by Zoidberg
I need to insert calls to enroot and deroot using LLVM.
 
user142019
^ I have the solution already. :)
 
@Zoidberg Ah, okay. Didn't realize those were connected to each other.
 
@Zoidberg if your taking away primitive types and only using objective-C style objects shouldnt nothing be on the stack?
 
user142019
10:47 PM
Pointers to Objective-C objects can reside on the stack.
 
@Zoidberg how does that work - do they use some type of allocaiton from a pool?
 
user142019
void foo() {
    NSString* x = [NSString new];
    // *x is on heap
    // x is on stack
}
 
oh i see what your saying
 
user142019
:P
 
partyhard
 
10:51 PM
"The Borg: party-poopers of the galaxy." - The Doctor
needless to say I don't party
 
going through quiz (Spoilers!!!) is this illegal (strict aliasing int f(int& a, int& b) {
a = 3;
b = 4;
return a + b;
}) EDIT : called with f(a,a)
 
@NoSenseEtAl If it were C99 (and those were pointers) it might be. In C++, I believe it's allowed.
 
@JerryCoffin but refs have same semantics as ptrs... Me confused... I thought C++ and C agree on this axiom :P stuff
 
@NoSenseEtAl Not entirely -- C has rather stricter rules in this respect.
 
This is not what strict aliasing is about
 
10:55 PM
does strict aliasing change the question?
thats waht I thought
if it doesnt
 
Also it's perfectly defined
 
then yeah that looks fine
 
It'd be fine with pointers too
 
@NoSenseEtAl yeah - I almost missed the EDIT part :)
 
it would return 8 though right?
 
10:56 PM
And in C too but who cares about C
 
@JustinMeiners yup
 
Who has Walter Bright's phone number, Ill call him. :P
 
ok cool just want to make sure im still sane
 
> sane
> C++
please
 
4 hours ago, by Scott W
@sehe C++? SANE?
Dec 13 '12 at 12:58, by FredOverflow
@Zoidberg'-- You sound way too sane for the Lounge. And a C++ programmmer.
 
11:00 PM
The voice of truth has spoken.
 
"C++11 support for user defined literals" - latest xcode
and unrestriced unions - im not familiar with that one
 
Finally the change that makes XCode a good I-pfffajhahahahahahah no
10
 
@JustinMeiners XCode has (almost) nothing to do with it. That's really just "latest Clang."
 
@JerryCoffin right but I dont go crazy and update my own clang or anything
 
@JustinMeiners NZ passed the unrestricted unions bill today too.
 
11:02 PM
so to me it comes with xcode :)
 
@CatPlusPlus Starbait accepted.
 
@user703016 lol
 
user142019
It's "Xcode", not "XCode".
 
user142019
You don't say "StackOverflow" or "Javascript" either.
 
11:08 PM
@kbok Plagiarism!
 
He wanted a name, we said this one was free
 
I'm the real Cicada all the other Cicadas are just imitating.
Well, what should I pick then?
 
Cacada
 
I'll go for kkbok
 
Both were terrible can we agree on that
 
11:09 PM
Cacat Plus Plus
 
Anyway, get a name, it's like you don't have a face. Also you don't have a face
 
@user703016 Pick "Jon Skeet"
 
posted on April 17, 2013

Two rights can make a wrong in the software-design world.

 
@Zoidberg If you're doing to get pedantic, the correct spelling is "SHIT".
 
Jon Skikit
 
11:10 PM
@sehe Gonna get suspended again if I do that
 
...
 
Jen Skoot
 
^ not funny
 
That's actually very smart
 
Life at Win32, with C++11 ?
*after
 
11:12 PM
@sehe And therefore unsuitable
 
There's never life after Win32
@bartonm (up arrow to edit)
 
okay sorry
 
@kbok Come on. Time for bed, if you're trolling this low :|
I'm heading there myself, anyhoops
Night
 
@sehe You have to admit that this isn't a sentence and it makes no sense
 
0
Q: What does access violation mean?

user200257I'm new to C++ and do not understand why I am getting the error "Access Violation Reading Location". Here is my code: gdiscreen(); int startX = 1823 - minusX; int startY = 915 - minusY; for (int i = startX; i < startX + 61; i++) { for (int j = startY; j < startY + 70; j++) { Colo...

 
11:13 PM
@sehe G'night.
 
@sehe night
 
Apologies for the lack of clarity, if you're walking away from Win32 but still programming in C++ what are you left using? Isn't MFC on it's way out?
Perhaps, QT?
 
What
 
Pretty much everything is on it's way out I think.
 
11:15 PM
@bartonm Do you still want to program Windows, but not using Win32?
 
I'm off too. Night, kids.
 
@bartonm I'd be using none of the named libraries. Unless you have a good reason to do GUI work in C++. But there is none, because you should be doing it in PyQt or in C# with delicious WPF etc.
Qt5 seems to be nice enough, but really, who can defend GUI assembly in C++
 
What @sehe said (shouldn't he be sleeping?). If you want C++ you can glue it with the C# code but you probably have no business writing C++ GUI code.
 
@sehe Off to bed you are!!
 
Just curious about other options. Win32 is certainly showing its age. I have been considering Qt5.
 
11:16 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit G'night.
 
Qt5 is a dramatic paradigm shift thought
 
Weeee
Trying to build 7z is fun!
 
Why are you building 7z?
 
I'm trying to build a 7z.dll . Why else? :O
 
@ThePhD apt-get source 7z --compile
 
11:18 PM
@sehe Not on Linux =[
 
@ThePhD Yes but what do you need it for?
 
Ell
What is the paradigm shift with qt5?
 
@Borgleader Packaging, of course.
 
@Ell Build system, signals, framework, etc
 
@Ell lambdas mostly (for slots) and a tad of C++11 integration
 
11:19 PM
@kbok Perhaps, I should give C# a second chance as the UI layer.
 
@ThePhD Ugh... of what? Assets? Text files? Data generated by your applcation?
 
@bartonm If you're used to win32 it's a life changer for sure.
 
@Borgleader For all my shaders and stuff.
 
@kbok Yes indeed.
 
I'm building it in a 7z archive and shipping that around.
All the engine-native stuff goes in a single .7z
 
11:20 PM
I see
 
@ThePhD Too much reuse, not enough reinventing.
 
@user703016 <3
No reason to rewrite LZMA support.
Besides, that shit is complicated.
And I have no qualms with the library itself because it's Public Domain. <3
 
regarding SA: To enable such optimizations in a predictable manner, the ISO standard for the C programming language (including its newer C99 edition, see section 6.5, paragraph 7)
specifies that it is illegal (with some exceptions) for pointers of different types to reference the same memory location. This rule, known as the strict aliasing rule, sometime allows for impressive increases in performance,[1] but has been known to break some otherwise valid code. Several software projects intentionally violate this portion of the C99 standard. For example, Python 2.x did so to implement referen
 
lol. this just in on my YT:
 
11:27 PM
Huh... I can't figure out how to make a DLL.
 
Are you using VS?
 
/DLL
 
Yeah. It's for the 7z SDK.
Er, the LZMA SDK, really.
 
make-dll <dllname>
 
what're "project deliverables"?
 
11:30 PM
Product that you'll be able to show.
Things you can give to people.
 
@Crowz Executables, DLLs, documentation, ... (Things you deliver to the customer)
 
What @JerryCoffin says. :D
Man, this thing just keeps building me an executable.
 
So like, for a simple simple networked game, you'd expect "game.exe", some DLLs, and maybe a manual?
 
Maybe I don't need to build anything in the first place and I just need to include the source and include files and do it that way...
 
@Crowz the resources also
 
11:33 PM
@Crowz it could be more than that, i believe you could also have architecture documents, requirement documents, test artifacts (which are more or less test results), ...
 
Ooh...
.... THe person who wrote the LZMA SDK wants me to build with NMake...
Wow....
Building this shit is it's own... nightmare. o.0
How does Igor Pavlov do this?
 
I believe he rings a bell and the source archive builds itself
 
@kbok lol
thats ivan
my man
 
What kind of DLLs would go with a game?
 
@Crowz renderers, sometimes the actual game code, any 3rd party lbraries,
a common design is to have the EXE contain platform specific services, it loads the game code from a dll, and renderers are also abstracted into their own dll
 
11:45 PM
@JustinMeiners your avatar... i think you are the strangest person that ever came into this room..
 
@StackedCrooked hahaha the fact that I use a real picture?
 
I guess.
 
Hmm I have to write a IEEE SPMP framework for a _ theoretical_ product (a game). How could one know what DLLs are necessary for a game not made?
 
what
do you want me to change it for you so you dont have to look at my ugliness?
 
11:46 PM
Dunno. The black and white. It's so unreal.
I don't care that much actually :)
Just observing..
 
ok haha
it pulled from my open id
I didnt go out of my way to make it that if it makes you feel any better
 
lol
It's just me probably. I should sleep soon.
 
@Crowz Starcraft 2: Battle.net.dll, D3DCompiler_42.dll, d3dx11_42.dll, d3dx9_41.dll, d3dx9_42.dll, dbghelp.dll, fmodex_4_28_08.dll, fmodex_4_28_09.dll, fmodex_4_40_06.dll, fmodex_4_40_07.dll, icudt44.dll, icuin44.dll, icuuc44.dll, msvcp100.dll, msvcp80.dll, msvcr100.dll, msvcr80.dll, RzAPM.DLL, msvcp80.dll, msvcr80.dll, msvcp80.dll, msvcr80.dll, msvcp100.dll, msvcp80.dll, msvcr100.dll, msvcr80.dll,
:P
 
"strangest person in the room" there has to be an award for that
 
there are some strong contenders though
 
11:51 PM
@Borgleader Some of these are duplicates
 
another example to look at are source games
they put each system as its own dll
 
@StackedCrooked bartek and litb uses their faces as avatars too though
 
that's differerent
 
I guess mine is just too crazy
now that I look
it looks like I have slits for eyes
 
it's that pose, in grayscale.
 
11:54 PM
my eyebrows in that picture are wider than my eyes lol
 
it's like a snashot from a atmospheric thriller/horror movie
i don't mean this as an insult
 
no offense taken
 
@Rapptz Blame windows, this is the result of dir "D:\StarCraft II\*.dll" /s /b > results.txt
 
lol
 
damn, i should sleep :)
alright, I'm off.
 
11:55 PM
peace
 
@Borgleader blame SC2 :P
 
"No offense meant, but your face makes you look like you're from some horror movie"
 
hahaha
 
Don't worry, it doesn't :) I'm going to sleep now.
 
@Borgleader could you possibly know this for a theoritical product?
 
11:58 PM
Huh?
 
Hey guys. Learning C++ here. I want to convert a string to integer. People say I should use atoi() from <stdlib.h>. Are there other ways or should I stick to that?
 
std::stoi
Which, by the fucking way, finally works on mingw64 4.8.0
 
@Rapptz You meanblocked me :( Why do you have to be so nice
 

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