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18:00
Windows 7 Snippet Tool
user784668
@Pawnguy7 ksnapshot
@Pawnguy7 Windows have had the Snipping tool for several years now. And Alt+Printscreen probably since its existence
@Insilico Oh. Alt + Print Screen didn't get me there, but found it. Didn't know that existed, that is useful. Also made me think... the task bar/start menu is also a window,somehow...
@Pawnguy7 Alt+Print screen is not a shortcut for the snipping tool. It just tells the OS to take a screenshot of the active window.
18:02
@Rapptz Shameless self-plug. :P
The snipping tool is way newer than the Alt+Printscreen shortcut
it was relevant!
I am not sure what alt + printscreen supposedly does.
SO you saaaaaaaaaay.
@Pawnguy7 She just told you. =l
1 min ago, by In silico
@Pawnguy7 Alt+Print screen is not a shortcut for the snipping tool. It just tells the OS to take a screenshot of the active window.
18:03
Also HAVOK Y U NO CONTACT ME?
I could've sworn I've said what Alt+Printscreen does a minute ago.
@ThePhD Wrong pronoun. :-)
Oh. Missed that somehow. In that case, it does work for me, yes.
Hm.
To avoid making that mistake, I shall use the general pronoun for everyone.
Sheit.
Also, I think something that direct uploads to (your image site) could be useful... or I am lazy, perhaps.
Covers everything from dogs to breast-carriers and ballsac-bearers.
18:05
Potato.
Potatoh.
Tomato.
Potatoe.
Retards
4
Lol.
Y u have 2 ruin fun, Rapptz? :c
We were only looking for a good time.
A GOOD TIME, MAN.
18:07
Not in my house.
Hello can I get help of my question?
@Klasik You can ask, but know that you'll probably have more luck on Stack Overflow itself.
'round here, we mostly like to dick around.
dick ... around.
@EtiennedeMartel "Mostly" is an understatement.
stackoverflow.com/questions/15411446/… here is my question I can handle it (
18:08
Here's 'round dickin' land, son.
For some reason...
user784668
oh no
user784668
I have to write PHP
user784668
fuck it, fuck it, fuck it.
=[[[[[[[[[
A user was removed from SO and I lost rep.
q_q RIP rep.
18:10
ahahaha
That is just tragic.
I truly feel for you... :D
That happened to you before me?
That's impressive
@Klasik Urgh, MFC.
And GDI.
Why do you lose rep when a user is removed?
void parser::parse(). Because what else would it do?
18:11
@EtiennedeMartel Actually I don't think GDI is that bad, being originally a C API. MFC, on the other hand, is a pile of shit.
@rubenvb Wash clothes?
@Rapptz You cheated. :c
@rubenvb Get the mail!
Real men write in WinAPI
@Insilico GDI plus is actually great for straight 2-D work.
18:12
@Mikhail Real men find the best tools for the job, regardless of what they are.
It was used for SDL for a while for its 2D stuff and it had massive, huge performance gains over D2D or D3D.
(Incidentally, Java is rarely the best tool, and PHP never is)
@ThePhD that's SDL's fault
@EtiennedeMartel Unless all you're looking for is a cheap burger. :3c
@BartekBanachewicz Could be. I think Sam Lantinga has a good idea of what he's doing, though.
@ThePhD I actually don't see the relevance.
18:13
@ThePhD I'm not sure D2D existed back when using GDI was classified as a "performance gain".
@EtiennedeMartel Well, there was actually a more recent-ish question that Sam Lantinga posted on SO itself talking about how to get good performance out of D3D for 2D ops.
I wonder if I can find it...
@ThePhD Yeah, but that's D3D, not D2D.
3
Q: How do I improve Direct3D streaming texture performance?

Sam LantingaI'm trying to accelerate the drawing of a full-screen texture which changes every frame. On my system, I can get around 1000 FPS using GDI and BitBlt(), but I thought I could improve performance by using Direct3D and dynamic textures. Instead I'm only getting around 250 FPS. I'm running on a M...

> only 250fps
I stopped right there
Well.
60 FPS isn't enough for some people.
18:16
In some graphics hardware 60 fps and 120fps is different because it will interpolate frames
Yeah, but 250?
@BartekBanachewicz how goes Minicraft?
Well, you have to remember, he's coding a Framework.
His Framework's limit is 250 FPS. Other people are going to code on top of that.
That means less space for people to do what they want.
anyway, he terribly failed probably
SDL, right?
18:17
because last time I've checked, both OGL and Dx were faster than any other 2D api
Yah.
The guy should stop working on that and make a better lib.
also, SDL is in C
C
@ThePhD You're worried about a framework that's limited to 250 frames per second?
18:17
@EtiennedeMartel maybe drawing this image is not all he has to do, and he wants to keep some headroom?
@melak47 that doesn't exactly work that way
Consumer GPUs are optimized for Realtime
Reminds me of an old benchmark I saw a couple of years ago of SFML vs SDL. SFML was 8000% faster.
I don't think even the highest-end graphics cards refresh the monitors at 250 FPS (or even near it).
I doubt he is using Quadro or Tesla
@BartekBanachewicz wut?
18:18
In fact, with those numbers, I'm not even sure it's legit.
24 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
Consumer GPUs are optimized for Realtime
so what
@EtiennedeMartel Laurent isn't the brightest C++ coder out there, but SFML isn't bad
But then, it was SDL's software renderer vs SFML's OpenGL renderer.
and that goes to GDI
/topic.
18:19
@BartekBanachewicz He's French, though.
@EtiennedeMartel So the numbers aren't even legit then.
Har har har
so can any help me solve my problem? stackoverflow.com/questions/15411446/…
@EtiennedeMartel yea, that's a major flaw :)
@Klasik you have already posted this here. Don't use MFC/GDI
@BartekBanachewicz unless you are getting frame times less than one planck time, it's still perfectly realtime. then I guess it becomes faster than realtime :p
18:20
@Insilico Well, SDL and SFML have the same target market. So why use SDL when you can use SFML and get much better perf?
There's even a C binding for SFML, so the "I need to target C" argument doesn't hold up.
@melak47 apparently we have some other definition of realtime
@EtiennedeMartel too bad SFML still has singletons
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, well. Nobody's perfect.
@Bartek what I shood use?
It has 1 singleton
@EtiennedeMartel True, but I'm talking about the benchmark. Surely SDL can be hardware accelerated too, no?
@melak47 "real time" usually means "takes at most some arbitrary amount of time".
@Insilico via OGL
@Insilico Maybe. But I wouldn't know, I'm not touching that mess with a ten foot Pole.
@EtiennedeMartel there are various definitions (soft, hard, etc), but more or less correct @melak47
18:22
SDL tries to code for OGL and D3D.
(Or a person of any nationality, for that matter)
so? by being faster it doesn't stop being real time
@ThePhD SDL has to deal with much more legacy cruft.
real time: not imaginary time.
oh god not again
18:22
Ah, legacy.
When I create a library, I'm going to have no problem smashing the backs of my users over new features.
"Oh, you still want it to work in Windows 98? Buaahahahahahahahahahahahah upgrade bitch. =l"
> When I create a library
SCNR
I wish I knew what that meant.
@ThePhD Don't be a Zoidberg.
Or maybe I don't.
@ThePhD "Sorry could not resist"
18:24
Also, no one will want to use your lib.
That's fine with me. Because I'll be using my lib. :3c
Thanks @Etienne, I would be called a dick if I wrote it
And I won't be full of legacy cruft, that's for sure.
Or they'll won't bother upgrading, so you'll have ridiculous fragmentation.
With people staying on the version they started with because of all the breaking changes.
@ThePhD You have a time machine to guarantee that?
18:25
@BartekBanachewicz all I wanted to say was: if his framework thingy takes 4ms to present that image, that's 4 ms less anyone using his framework has per frame to do their stuff
No, but as long as I never release my code, the only person I'll have to interface with is me.
@melak47 Using SDL with critical performance requirements
Then it's not a library. It's just a bunch of code you have lying around on a hard drive.
I have plenty of that.
18:26
Library is docs, examples, much more
That doesn't mean I'm not using it. :c
and userbase, lol
A library is released to users.
potato. Broke my combo
Dishwasher, yes.
18:26
A library need not have documentation.
@EtiennedeMartel , Dead Samurai.
@rubenvb said no developer ever
It may be just that simple :)
I was going to say community, but userbase is a better word.
@rubenvb Um, yes it does. Otherwise it's useless. Unless your definition of "library" includes useless ones. :-)
18:27
@BartekBanachewicz how many internal libraries have no or little documentation?
@rubenvb what's an internal library?
@rubenvb They have doc, then. In the head of the people who wrote it.
inside the company, project or...?
If it's "internal", then those people are usually nearby.
So you can drop in at some guy's desk and ask about how it works.
It's not written, but it's still documentation.
if it's inside the project, it's "bunch of code" not a library
18:28
@BartekBanachewicz libraries that aren't public.
@EtiennedeMartel lol
static_assert(_Value,
		"The C++ Standard doesn't provide a hash for this type.");
	};
Now, if the author left, then it's another matter entirely.
But I think what defines a library is a user base that does not consist of only the author(s).
@BartekBanachewicz Just specialize it.
18:29
@BartekBanachewicz what are you hashing?
it's a fucking POD
struct KeyType {
		int x, y, z;
		bool operator<(KeyType& other) {
			if (x != other.x)
				return x < other.x;
			else if (y != other.y)
				return y < other.y;
			else
				return z < other.z;
		}
		KeyType()
			: x(0), y(0), z(0) {
		}
		KeyType(int _x, int _y, int _z)
			: x(_x), y(_y), z(_z) {
		}
	};
@BartekBanachewicz it's a distinct type.
Yeah, specialize.
user142019
when y u no m a and >> return ().
Why would you expect a hash that exists for that?
18:30
it has raw data
template<> class std::hash<KeyType> { ... };
why can't it hash it exactly?
Do you guys think that this question tagged as where the OP explicitly says "I cannot use any classes, no strings, no containers" is correctly tagged? I suggested retagging as , but I kind of got stoned for doing that
@BartekBanachewicz Isn't the fact that it has a user-defined constructor makes it not a POD?
@BartekBanachewicz so? Maybe not all the data has to be considered in the hash.
18:30
1
Q: C++, im suppose to use arrays and for loops, no strings or any classes

Freddie Willowvoid printEncodingCodonSequences ( char aminoAcid1, char aminoAcid2, char aminoAcid3, char aminoAcid4, char aminoAcid5 ); Given a protein fragment consisting of 5 amino acid symbols as input, print out (on the screen) all the differen...

user784668
@BartekBanachewicz Because you didn't tell it how?
@BartekBanachewicz Because std::hash has no default implementation.
Because std::hash is explicitly type-safe.
sheesh
12 secs ago, by Etienne de Martel
@BartekBanachewicz Because std::hash has no default implementation.
this is correct answer. +1 accept
18:31
@BartekBanachewicz Because computers can't guess semantics.
user142019
@AndyProwl too localized.
My heart is filled with joy
hi robot :)
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes False. Counterexample: you.
18:31
The plastic man has returned.
Roooobeeboooobeeeeoooobooooot.
You don't even have an op==, how the heck do you expect a hash to be derived?
@Zoidberg I understand that, but is it inappropriate to suggest retagging as ?
(hint: hash functions are defined in terms of an equivalence relation, not out of the blue)
user142019
18:32
@AndyProwl no.
@AndyProwl Too localized. Outside of academia, such stupid-ass restrictions don't exist.
Speaking of magic, I've been listening to the Smile Song in an endless loop for the past few days.
user142019
The correct answer will effectively be in C anyway.
user142019
Maybe with C++-style casts or references, but yeah.
@R.MartinhoFernandes if (! a < b && ! b < a) then a == b
18:33
(At least in theory)
well, that goes for explicit op==
@Zoidberg OK, that's what I thought. I got this answer by a high reputation user: "@Andy: I'm so tired of this idiocy that C is another name for "C++ with restrictions". Please don't leave comments like that any more. He did exactly the right thing, tagged it with the language being used, and being clear about his constraints"
but yeah, I guess it requires different semantics
Even though I consider it too localized, I wouldn't retag it as C though.
@AndyProwl Who was that user? :P
18:34
It's not the OP's fault that they can't use some C++ features (assuming it's for a class assignment)
@Mysticial Ben Voigt
@BartekBanachewicz Strictly it means they are incomparable, not equal.
@AndyProwl: Not necessarily. The OP may be allowed to use other C++ features. Yes, those kinds of arbitrary restrictions sucks and are counterproductive, but that's not the OP's fault — jalf 10 mins ago
@AndyProwl You can copy links to comments and chat will onebox it. :-)
@Andy: I'm so tired of this idiocy that C is another name for "C++ with restrictions". Please don't leave comments like that any more. He did exactly the right thing, tagged it with the language being used, and being clear about his constraints. — Ben Voigt 10 mins ago
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz !(NaN < NaN) && !(NaN < NaN) is !false && !false is true && true is true, yet NaN == NaN is false.
18:34
@jalf nailed it
@Fanael yeah, I know it is not enough, that was just an example.
@Insilico All right, thank you for the tip, didn't know that :)
@BartekBanachewicz It was a bad example, because it requires some unspoken assumption the compiler cannot make.
I have switched for normal map for now anyway
C++ should support default-initialization.
I'll add that to the list of useful features for my own languages.
18:36
@BartekBanachewicz too lazy to make your KeyType hashable?
:D
@ThePhD The heck does that mean?
@ThePhD there's value-initialization, which is good enough.
Xeo
Xeo
Btw Robot, I noticed we don't seem to have a bookmark on why "pair of iterator" ranges suck.
Uh
I mean stuff like this:
@Xeo you want an iterator of iterators? :)
18:37
@melak47 yeah.
public:
    Matrix projection = Matrix::Identity, view = Matrix::Identity, world = Matrix::Identity;
@Xeo That's strewn all over the place, I guess.
@BartekBanachewicz pastebin.com/gWNUKVGe
@melak47 no, it's just pair<start, end> that sucks
Xeo
Xeo
@ThePhD c++11 has that
user784668
18:38
@ThePhD Matrix() : whatever(Identity) {}
... Let me guess. Microsoft doesn't support it? ._.
@Fanael And I have to write that for every constructor ever.
@melak47 pstebin doesn't work for me
@ThePhD how many constructors do you have? o.O
Also, doesn't C++11 already have chaining constructors?
a lot
you don't wanna know
@BartekBanachewicz It varies. Sometimes just 1, sometimes 8.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes we should have one
18:39
template <typename T>
void hash_combine(std::size_t& seed, const T& v)
{
    std::hash<T> hasher;
    seed ^= hasher(v) + 0x9e3779b9 + (seed << 6) + (seed >> 2);
}

namespace std
{

    template<>
    struct hash<KeyType>
    {
        size_t operator() (const KeyType& kt)
        {
            size_t seed = 0;
            hash_combine(seed, kt.x);
            hash_combine(seed, kt.y);
            hash_combine(seed, kt.z);
            return seed;
        }
    };
}
Xeo
Xeo
I have an idea, we bin every message between the range bits and then make a bookmark.
@melak47 that's fucking scary
@BartekBanachewicz that hash_combiner is copied from SO somewhere, supposedly the same thing boost uses. I think. :D
user784668
@melak47 I'd rather just xor the values and then avalanche the final hash.
MurmurHash's avalanche is pretty good.
18:40
@Fanael well, you can do whatever you want :)
please don't dump code.
I implemented / snagged a whole bunch of Hash algos back in the day.
I still have them all here.
Xeo
Xeo
And your implementation of them still sucks, right? :)
@rubenvb sorry, he can't into pastebin, I was too lazy to do something else. it wasn't that much :p
@ThePhD Why doesn't the Transform Matrix class default ctor make it an identity matrix?
18:41
@Xeo Hey, they're great.
@ThePhD are they tested?
@melak47 Yeah, boost has it.
@BartekBanachewicz yes! result: they're not crazy
@melak47 it has a scrollbar, it's too much.
user784668
@ThePhD For 32-bit values I tend to use xosrshr 15, mul 0xA18858D3, xorshr 14, mul 0x45D46E53, xorshr 17. Slightly better avalanche behavior than Murmur3's finalizer.
18:41
@melak47 ...
@R.MartinhoFernandes a zeros matrix would be more useful.
@Fanael what the fuck Y u dumping strange ASCII sequences here
@rubenvb I doubt it
@rubenvb Says not his code.
In a math context.
@rubenvb but a zero'd matrix breaks all your crap.
18:42
@rubenvb Btw, I alluded at the fact that he isn't quite interested in matrices, but in transforms.
@BartekBanachewicz I tested then for a server that needed to has random byte arrays and act as a cache for a web server. I implemented both FowlerNoVoll1a for fast hashing and also checked it against MurmurHash.
in a projection matrix context :p
@ThePhD I asked whether it has tests, not if you "tested" it.
An identity transform is the sane and useful default.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah yes, I see.
18:43
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, I don't really know and I honestly don't care, it worked in a real-life scenario and that's good enough shit for me.
2 mins ago, by Xeo
And your implementation of them still sucks, right? :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes All my Matrices default to Identity.
but can you prove that it worked? :p
@ThePhD Then what the heck are you complaining about?
@R.MartinhoFernandes he likes to double-initialize them, just to be sure
18:44
public:
    Matrix projection, view, world;
It just works.
ah the comma's
It was an example. Obviously I have a lot more than that I'd like to default-initialize.
...
<dances>
<potatoes>
<ponies>
@ThePhD If you need that so often, it's a hint that your default ctor is the wrong one.
@ThePhD It's called default constructor for a reason.
18:46
I'd also like to use it for std::vector members, Vector3 members, pointer members (setting to null instead of 0xcccccccc in debug or 0x47328473294 (garbage) in release)), etc. etc.
It's neat that C++11 has this feature, but it's also neat that not having it can give you hints about the design.
@ThePhD >not initializing to 0xc1cada
Xeo
Xeo
@ThePhD value_initialized<T*> for the pointer.
@AndyProwl unless you know something we don't, yes. We have no reason to believe that it is C (in C assignments, you're not typically told to "not use string or containers", because they don't exist). Asking if it is C, or suggesting that if it is C, he should retag it, would be very helpful
but unconditionally suggesting that it should be retagged when we don't know if it should is not so helpful. :)
18:54
@ThePhD This is the reason I don't like people recommending ogonek: as is I will "[smash] the backs of my users over new features", and I don't want that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't worry, we're not recommending it to anyone :P (yet :))
Well, I haven't posted it anywhere, but in the chat I sure as well recommend it. :D
IMO, anyway :)
I did accidentally
in an answer.
on SO.
ITT chat is not anywhere.
18:55
@jalf that seemed perfectly alike a stupid assignment
I got yelled at.
@rubenvb NNnnnnnonooooooooooo
@BartekBanachewicz sure, but it's hardly fair to blame someone for getting a stupid assignment at school
I quickly removed the non-fact that ogonek was complete.
Ugh, the plinks are back
20 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@jalf nailed it
18:55
@rubenvb Oh yeah, that was even worse.
@jalf OK, I understand. Although at the same time I do not understand :) Nevermind, my comment was not meant to blame the OP, just to suggest a retag
But when it hits 1.0 I'm going to spread that shit all over the place.
Smear it all over them answers.
@ThePhD ew
"YEAH TASTE SOME OGONEK BIIIITCH."
@R.MartinhoFernandes hehe
18:56
@Bartek: after walking it (SFML) through on the forums, we cannot find the problem... I am uncertain if the library is the problem, though. (As opposed to project options, for example)
@Pawnguy7 god dammit.
SFML never built for me correctly in debug mode.
Fucking LNK2001 unresolved blahblahblah.
But Release? Ooooh, release was just fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.
I can build it and send you a whole project I guess
@BartekBanachewicz If you do debug of 2.0 send it to me too plsplspls. <3
I'll do it in 5 minutes. Timer start.
18:58
@BartekBanachewicz en.sfml-dev.org/forums/index.php?topic=10904.0 - I tried it with what they built as well, but no go. Yet, they see nothing wrong with the links, and neither can I, in project properties. So many questions...

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