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2:00 PM
what trickery is this
stupid post taking to long to go through ._.
 
Get faster fingers
But seriously comparing music preferences with random people
 
I want namespace windows and windows::Form and windows::ui::TextBox to put in my derived form class
 
> derived form class
And you think you're writing C++
 
"derived form class"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That rock must be pleasant for you to have remained safely under it for all these years
 
2:02 PM
@CatPlusPlus well, last.fm also lets you listen to random music it thinks you might like based on your listening. it's basically like free targetted advertising! :D
 
argh I've got crazy DNS weirdness here
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's wrong with having a derived form class?
 
@melak47 Can you listen to random music without basing on anything
 
@BartekBanachewicz I thought you wanted a sensible way of doing GUIs.
 
"Form" is a bad name anyway
 
2:03 PM
@CatPlusPlus I dunno, I think you might have to enter a genre, or similar artist, or something. haven't used it in years
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Name one reason why deriving form class is bad and I will erase that part.
 
Also, isn't that essentially how you do stuff in MFC?
 
@BartekBanachewicz derived from what?
 
It is in wxWidgets.
 
mfcWidgets
 
2:04 PM
@thecoshman derived from ALL the things!
 
@thecoshman From the form base class. Duh. windows::Form in his dream.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I already said that if MFC 2.0 was based on std and c++11, it would be good in my opinion
 
then nope
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because imho "it was in X" isn't exactly a reason why something is bad
 
I don't like the whole deriving things as a way to build UIs
 
2:06 PM
It's mostly composition anyway
 
@CatPlusPlus why?
 
but if you're creating your own widget (and form is a widget) it makes perfect sense for me
 
Form isn't a widget
 
this TFS crap is crap. So I have to use TFS in order to not use TFS but Git? >_> fuck that
 
@CatPlusPlus ~UI element~
 
2:07 PM
@melak47 Wat. Are you high?
 
It might be derived from a widget base class but pretending you can actually use it as one is silly
 
wait... by 'form' do you mean just a text entry box?
 
@melak47 TFS is not the version control
 
@thecoshman "window"
 
@thecoshman no, a rectangle with other controls on it
 
2:07 PM
windows::window FTW
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what? how is 'form' a 'window'
 
@thecoshman By being one?
 
@BartekBanachewicz so... a collection...
 
@thecoshman how it is not?
 
@thecoshman No, a window.
 
2:08 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes does semantics mean nothing to you people?
 
I'll just keep using the github for windows thing ._.
 
Don't you know what a damn window is?
@thecoshman Right, window.
 
Aahahahahahahahaha coshman discussing semantics of names
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes touché
 
2:08 PM
He is either trolling or seriously dumb right now.
 
It's only a "collection" if you want to strip it of semantics.
 
oh
 
It should be window::setCollection obviously
 
and who was the correct? it was me!
 
What you on about.
 
2:09 PM
So, what are the problems with inheriting your own form from base form class?
 
but seriously, why would you call a window a form?
 
why call a spade a spade?
 
@thecoshman Because other people do. shrug
 
@thecoshman because Borland, C# and pretty much everything.
 
if you can call it a shovel instead
 
2:10 PM
@thecoshman Theoretically form is a reusable collection of widgets
 
are shovels and spades the same thing?
 
In windows 8 a form might as well mean the whole screen
 
huh, I have never heard of the entire window being called a form... a grouping of items perhaps
 
But nobody does that
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit scroll a bit up
 
2:11 PM
aren't spades a subclass of shovels?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That was the point.
 
@BartekBanachewicz why?
@R.MartinhoFernandes actually, they point is that they are not.
A shovel is a tool for digging, lifting, and moving bulk materials, such as soil, coal, gravel, snow, sand, or ore. Shovels are extremely common tools that are used extensively in agriculture, construction, and gardening. Most shovels are hand tools consisting of a broad blade fixed to a medium-length handle. Shovel blades are usually made of sheet steel or hard plastics and are very strong. Shovel handles are usually made of wood (especially specific varieties such as ash or maple) or glass-reinforced plastic (fibreglass). Hand shovel blades made of sheet steel usually have a folded...
A spade is a tool designed primarily for the purpose of digging or removing earth and spreading the soil. Early spades were made of riven wood. After the art of metalworking was discovered, spades were made with sharper tips of metal. Before the advent of metal spades manual labor was less efficient at moving earth, with picks being required to break up the soil in addition to a spade for moving the dirt. With a metal tip, a spade can both break and move the earth in most situations, increasing efficiency. Etymology English spade is from Old English ' (f.) or ' (m.). The same word ...
Thanks for playing.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit similar, but they have different shapes for different jobs
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit OMG you fail
 
2:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz No. At least as Windows defines things, a window doesn't necessarily have a rectangle or controls. From their viewpoint (and I suspect pretty much the same is true in most other windowing systems such as X) the single most salient feature is that a window can receive and process messages (has a message queue and a message proc).
 
In Windows everything is a window
 
Hence the name.
 
I'm a window too
 
Because they like windows so much they even called it Windows
2
 
with a Lion behind it
lol
 
2:12 PM
MyForm : public windows::Form { windows::ui::TextBox MyInput; }
 
-1
Q: There is a stack overflow error in the Advanced WYSIWYG Text Editor with Internet explorer

Martin VeskiltThis error shows up on every loading of the page where the editor is used and only seems to happen on users with Internet Explorer. I'm currently using the latest MyBB forum software @ v1.6.9. The original plugin page can be found on http://mods.mybb.com/view/wysiwyg-editor The plugin comes in ...

 
Yeah that's terrible hardcoding
Don't do that
 
STAHP
 
UI shouldn't be defined in code
 
2:13 PM
MyForm : public windows::Form { MyForm() : m_Elements { windows::ui::TextBox() } {} };`
 
@BartekBanachewicz OOP wankery, kill it with fire
 
Only behaviours
 
@CatPlusPlus Then in what?
 
You've got three layers basically, behaviours, structure and style
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't know some other thing~
Use your imagination
 
2:15 PM
Lua or HTML
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Sounds tasty.
 
@CatPlusPlus no, but you should be able to do so, especially whilst developing it.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Doesn't sound as tasty.
 
2:15 PM
@CatPlusPlus how do you want to connect behaviours to UI? Because that's essentially the problem
 
XML if we really need schemas
 
htmlayout ftw.
 
it can be HTML, why not.
 
No HTML is awful
 
> Currently HTMLayout is installed and works on more than 6,700,000 PCs in various software products of various companies.
lol
 
2:16 PM
@CatPlusPlus not really.
 
user142019
Yes really.
 
It would require OS support for rendering HTML though, and it's done on Linuxes running Gnome 3, Chrome OS and Firefox OS
 
Yeah we know how well that goes
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's forbidden. Or something. Something about monopolies.
 
@BartekBanachewicz internet explorer :D
 
2:17 PM
I hear Gnome 3 is a very popular OS
 
wat
 
What do you mean by "OS support"?
 
the WebBrowser component sucks. don't ever use it for UI.
 
Also no it doesn't need OS support for anything
You can render HTML yourself just fine
If you're mad enough to use HTML
 
You can build HTML rendering without OS support for HTML rendering. Quick, how do they even make browsers on Windows?
 
2:18 PM
Well, you can, but it isn't as nice
On iOS for example it's perfectly fine to build HTML apps
 
It's as nice as anyone makes it.
 
Also it's best to do it yourself, because then you get rid of one the biggest problems with HTML which is disparity between implementations
 
Bundling HTML renderer with every application hardly makes sense for me, still
 
There are things that belong in the OS, HTML rendering is not one of them
 
don't use HTML for UI, XML is ok... but just not HTML
 
2:19 PM
@CatPlusPlus tell that to iOS
@thecoshman why exactly no?
 
Yes iOS is a great feat of engineering we should all take example
(Fuck off with iOS seriously)
 
iOS certainly isn't a bad operating system
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
@thecoshman html > xml.
 
HTML is XML
Kinda
Not really
 
Xeo
2:20 PM
@Abyx XHTML!
 
But almost
 
yep. (x)html includes xml
 
Xeo
And then use a regex to parse that.
 
XHTML is dead
 
FML >? XHTML
 
2:20 PM
@BartekBanachewicz it has preconceived ideas of what it should look like, none of which are agreed on. It is also incosistent
 
@thecoshman What
 
@thecoshman It's still improving (to the second part of course, because first is utter BS)
 
HTML is structure only
 
Xeo
CSS is style
If I got that right.
 
@thecoshman I thought it was actually for not giving a fuck what it looks like.
 
2:21 PM
Yup it's CSS implementations that are problematic
And as I've said before
 
you can put css and code into html.
 
user142019
HTML should be called HyperText Structure Language or something.
 
If you're using your own always, the problem is eliminated
 
@Abyx if you're a total dumbass.
@CatPlusPlus Application size? WebKit weighs a bit
 
Irrelevant
 
2:23 PM
So we've come to conclusion, and I find it pretty satisfactory
 
Also it's like 5MB or something
 
I meant more about what tags there are in HTML, they are not going to port well to your own GUI framework, where as if you use XML, you say what tags there are and make it suit what your framework offers
 
Embed webkit in C++ application, create UI in HTML.
 
You have no idea how many apps bundles WebKit
 
I like that idea ^
 
2:23 PM
Yeah that's a terrible idea
 
Xeo
0
Q: C++11 how to identify atomic type at compile time (via mtl or defines)?

myWallJSONI wonder if it is possible to determine if given type is atomic (meaning you can perform operations on it with out mutex notputting yourself in dangure). I wonder if there is some atomic(type) define that would determine if type is atomic. In order to create something like DEFINE( (int)(do) ); t...

ugh
 
@CatPlusPlus fuck you. what now?
 
But then again you all have standards set so low
Have fun with that~
 
user142019
No GUI at all and problem solved.
 
@CatPlusPlus your point being "HTML sucks", right?
 
2:24 PM
@Zoidberg text is graphical, too, so it better not take any commandline arguments or produce output.
 
@melak47 you should plug your brain via usb
 
user142019
HTML + LESS + CoffeeScript + jQuery = best GUIs.
 
@melak47 API > CLI > GUI?
 
makes sense
 
> you can perform operations on it with out mutex notputting yourself in dangure
 
2:26 PM
"notputting" seems on-topic.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes s/>/->/
 
@Xeo Is 'mtl' MetaTempLating or what?
 
Xeo
I have no fucking clue
 
@Xeo so the guy was unable to google std::atomic<>?
 
Compile-times make me so sad today. I'm going to relax by torturing Clang.
 
2:27 PM
@LucDanton Mary Todd Lincoln!
 
Also lock(do_mutex); seems wrong.
 
@LucDanton Monad transformer library duh
 
@CatPlusPlus Of course!
 
I am angry. I want a muffin and fuck you cat for breaking my idealistic dreams.
 
idealistic dreams of HTML GUIs? :/
 
2:30 PM
just try wtl+htmlayout.
 
@melak47 of sensible C++ GUI coding
 
with HTML :/
 
Because right now, despite of everyone saying "C++ Renaissance", I am back with conclusion that the only thing worth learning now is OpenGL
 
Sensible, C++, GUI, pick two.
 
@CatPlusPlus It doesn't have to be like that.
 
2:33 PM
@BartekBanachewicz By "everyone", do you mean "Herb"?
 
C++ is a bad language
 
@BartekBanachewicz Get off your lazy ass and fix it, then!
:P
 
"C++ Renaissance" is literally a marketing ploy by the committee
 
@CatPlusPlus name a better one.
 
@Abyx Haskell, Python
 
2:34 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Like I am able to -.-. I have LOADS to learn before that.
 
@CatPlusPlus Python is interpreted
 
C# is intermediate-interpreted.
 
Oh gawd, don't do that.
 
2:34 PM
@BartekBanachewicz got to start some where
 
Your mom is interpreted
4
 
@CatPlusPlus Python requires huge runtime and it's slow, Haskell is useless.
 
(Also it literally doesn't matter)
 
@CatPlusPlus I thought it was MS's, but then... Herb is in both, so maybe.
 
(ESPECIALLY FOR GUI CODE)
 
2:35 PM
c# requires .net/mono.
 
user142019
kcuf
 
Haskell is hard to teach and hard to understand by imperative style programmers
 
OH GOD RUNTIME OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz So?
 
2:35 PM
IT REQUIRES A RUNTIME OH NO
C++ requires one too fyi
 
@BartekBanachewicz That sounds wrong.
 
@Zoidberg So? You will have to collaborate with someone sooner or later.
 
user142019
So?
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's easier to teach than C++
 
The same way that C++ is hard to understand by Java programmers?
 
2:36 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes quite different way
 
user142019
Collaborate with other Haskell programmers.
 
user142019
PROBLEM SOLVED.
 
@CatPlusPlus right now I'm writing an uninstaller. should I use Python+tkinter for it?
 
It's about 10 times simpler
 
0
Q: Conversion doesn't work C++

kraYzI have this code in my "NetBeans" compiler. http://pastebin.com/XA9hW4Jw I have 3 classes and main i want to creat a variable for each one of it.Eeverythings works ok but i can't put each variable in a vector. int main(int argc, char** argv) { piesa_b *H; H = new piesa_b[2];...

 
2:36 PM
Maybe I should switch to haskell then.
 
You'll love this one.
 
@Abyx You're saying that like it wouldn't work
 
Lounge<Haskell>
 
OH GOD RUNTIME OH GOD
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz good idea.
 
2:37 PM
Grr, half my unit tests for iostreams are wrong because I don’t understand them properly
 
I need ALL THE PERFORMANCE in my UNINSTALLER
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I like the quotes around "NetBeans".
 
@CatPlusPlus it would, but don't you think it's kinda insane to have python just for an uninstall.exe?
 
Is haskell standarized?
 
Because it's totally not I/O bound guys totally
 
user142019
2:37 PM
@KonradRudolph because I/O streams are wrong.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean ""NetBeans""
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes.
 
iostreams suck
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit There are no quotes around ""NetBeans""!
 
Being standardised doesn't matter
 
2:38 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No, I mean quotes around "NetBeans", not quotes around quotes around "NetBeans".
@BartekBanachewicz The standard is GHC, anyway.
 
Consistent spec is important, not some "this is a standard" stamp
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not by like ISO or anybody, but yes.
 
Being standardised only slows the development to a crawl
See: C++
 
@CatPlusPlus I mean, can I expect haskell code to look the same everywhere
 
2:39 PM
I suppose that begs the question, "what does specification mean?"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. Everyone uses GHC. Unless time-travellers.
 
Yes, because there's one good implementation instead of thousands of broken ones
 
screen y u no recognise programs
 
And that's pretty much what I was asking
 
Begging the question (Latin petitio principii, "assuming the initial point") is a type of informal fallacy in which an implicit premise would directly entail the conclusion. Begging the question is one of the classic informal fallacies in Aristotle's Prior Analytics. Some modern authors consider begging the question to be a species of circulus in probando (Latin, "circle in proving") or circular reasoning. Were it not begging the question, the missing premise would render the argument viciously circular, and while never persuasive, arguments of the form "A therefore A" are logically valid....
 
2:40 PM
@thecoshman Because it's "programs".
 
You use the ~true English~ you should know about this
 
hahahaa.
Zing.
 
@CatPlusPlus Based on your answers, I understood that I really wanted to know if it's the same everywhere.
Better?
 
0
Q: What does it mean to be "standardised", and why is Haskell it?

Lightness Races in OrbitWikipedia claims that Haskell is "standardised", but the Haskell standard is not ratified by an internationally recognised standards body such as ISO; not even by a national body such as BSI or ANSI. So what really are the criteria for a programming language to be labelled "standardised"? Does i...

 
Incidentally, is my operator >> allowed to be destructive even if reading is not successful? I.e. can I do an unconditional obj.burninate(); at the beginning of the implementation?
 
2:42 PM
obj.burninate()?
 
@BartekBanachewicz That wasn't directed to you :.
 
@CatPlusPlus What? I used it in the correct form, responding to a failed premise.
 
@melak47 destroys the old value the object held ands resets it to an empty state (disclaimer: that’s obviously not the real method name, I just wanted to convey the meaning, apparently that failed)
 
@CatPlusPlus I didn't simply use it after stating some random fact, which is where the fallacy comes into play.
@R.MartinhoFernandes THANKS
 
@KonradRudolph He's just a peasant.
 
2:43 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit 2 close votes already
 
user142019
Minetime.
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph I don't think so.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Couldn't you have asked on PSE?
 
Does haskell have FFI to C?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I couldn't be bothered
 
2:44 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Yes
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz Yes
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes And I don't like their visual theme
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the worst that can happen, it will be moved
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know it'll get migrated if it's appropriate there, and I'm okay with that.
 
2:45 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Everything has!
 
@Xeo Meaning that the following must hold?
T obj = some_value;
assert((in >> obj) or obj == some_value);
 
@BartekBanachewicz Moving to PSE requires mod intervention.
 
user142019
foreign import ccall "sin" c_sin :: CDouble -> CDouble
sin :: Double -> Double
sin d = realToFrac (c_sin (realToFrac d))
 
@KonradRudolph I think standard >> doesn't do that
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes and that isn't a problem with such a high rep user with Lounge backing.
 
2:45 PM
@KonradRudolph Allowed by what?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Aww where did the migration option for PSE go?!
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Standard does IIRC.
 
SharePoint is on the list?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
 
@Zoidberg that means I can use Lua in Haskell all well
 
@Xeo Don't you get zeroes in some circumstances?
 
2:46 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's why asked why you didn't put it in place already.
 
Interesting
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz The probably is a Lua package already, but ye.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes By some sort of semi-official best-practices guideline for iostreams, since they are woefully underspecified in the standard
 
PSE was removed from the list because it was resulting in too much crap moved.
 
I don't know why you would use Lua ever
 
2:46 PM
I might give it a try
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This changes things.
 
user142019
 
@CatPlusPlus And I don't expect you to understand; you like Python.
 
So now the SOP for PSE migration is close as off-topic, and flag with custom message for mods.
I did so already. Not sure if more flags hurts or helps.
 
Yeah I like Python, it has a type system worth something
 
2:47 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes done
 
Lua is just weird
 
oh and a downvote. from some tosspot.
 
@CatPlusPlus Same is python. Lua is suprisingly simple and consistent
 
Oh God I fucking hate math class so fucking much
 
Lua is primitive
 
2:48 PM
Everyone does.
Maybe.
 
I didn't always
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus You're primitive.
 
@CatPlusPlus true. They had less to fuck up. I don't consider "primitive" an insult
 
C is primitive too it's not a good thing
 
@Zoidberg Cats are extremely advanced.
 
user142019
2:48 PM
@LucDanton what's the room next to the one with the anvil?
 
@CatPlusPlus C is primitive in terms of machines. Lua is primitive in a more human way
 
@Crowz oh, it can't be that bad
 
@BartekBanachewicz You mean with clubs and silex?
 
As it turns out my variant makes Clang crash when it gets parsed.
 
Also I don't know where you get the idea that Python is complicated
Or inconsistent what
 
2:49 PM
@Collin "now that you can no longer drop the class... POP EXAM WORTH 10% OF YOUR GRADE"
I just kinda wanted to yell "FUCK YOU" and walk out of the class
 
user142019
Embed PHP.
 
so much complaining
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wwwaaat?
 
user142019
How much does Zend Framework suck?
 
@Crowz so? 10% dude
 
2:50 PM
@Zoidberg Much
 
user142019
More than vanilla PHP?
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's what primitive humans used.
 
It's PHP
 
you can't do PHP right
 
On the note of language complexity, Haskell is simple too
 
2:51 PM
@BartekBanachewicz "Silex" is another name for flint, if it's not clear.
 
I wrote a haskell program yesterday and it ended up like spaghetti :(
 
You mean "yummy"?
 
@Pubby I.e. delicious with some sauce?
 
Congratulations
 
No, I mean incomprehendable gibberish
 
2:52 PM
Well now I'm hungry.
 
I think the real issue is that Haskell records suck
 
They do. Use lenses.
 
Yeah kinda
Lenses are great
 
Not as great as C-style structs
 
Er
Better
 
2:53 PM
Er
 
There's little interesting about C-style structs
And really raw Haskell records are basically that
 
Not as great as Pascal records, anyone?
 
There doesn't need to be anything interesting about structs
all I want is convenient syntax
 
Composition is convenient.
 
With lenses you can get something like foo^.bar
 
2:55 PM
Except it's different
 
It's really not
 
@Zoidberg that's a great page.
 
Well, it's different in that records are immutable by default
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wow, silex, had to look that one up, never known any one to call flint that before
 
And that lenses are more general and far more powerful than just simply accessing fields
 
2:56 PM
@thecoshman It's archaic.
I thought it fitted the "primitive" theme.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well I don't consider Shakespeare "primitive". Not more than Swag and YOLO
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's that for sure :P
 
Anyway, is there a way to pattern match only the constructor?
 
@BartekBanachewicz no, he's just a knob jokey
 
@thecoshman It comes from Latin, but in English it has changed to mean something else now.
 
2:58 PM
Like not unpack the members with the pattern matching. So I can use accessor functions instead.
 
@Pubby _?
Yeah, foo a = blah a
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah I can read wikipedia :P
 
Which is not pattern matching anymore btw.
 
Except I need to have separate overloads for the various constructors
 
Ha, Jonathan Wakely made an iostreams mistake as well
 
2:58 PM
@melak47 Well now the best grade I could possibly get is like, a D.
 
@Pubby x@(Ctor _)?
 
like one for Tree and one for Node
 
god damn it
 
@Crowz so a D is 90%?
 
2:59 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, I forgot about @
Do I need the correct number of _s though?
 
@melak47 Never gotten above a C in any math class so I am assuming that C is the starting point
 
stupid failing to get backups sorted fast enough
 
@Pubby Think so.
 

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