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2:00 PM
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derp.
 
> This shall be narrow where the decayed type is char
I am not sure if this is a good idea.
If we get char8_t, maybe.
 
there's no choice.
to be entirely blunt
char can be narrow, or UTF8, and I have no way to know
so it's better to just pick one
and narrow means that we can fix char8_t later and it'll still work.
 
@DeadMG Yeah, that's were I disagree :P I prefer treating char as a black box and getting the encoding information out-of-band. But your last point is interesting.
 
eh
on most implementations where people wrote lots of code assuming that char was UTF-8, then the narrow encoding is UTF-8 anyway and nothing is lost.
 
Also, btw, there are two other semi-official normalization forms, that may or may not be useful.
 
2:08 PM
VS is the only one of the three major compilers where the narrow encoding is not UTF-8, and it still has time to implement a fixed unicode literals.
 
I haven't looked much yet, but I still don't know if it makes sense to have them in the public interface, or exclusively internally.
 
hmm
I can add more normalization forms later, if I want to
better to have reduced implementation complexity rather than go all-out on every bell and whistle
 
They're mostly for optimising some stuff, like collation.
FCD "Fast C or D", and FCC "Fast C Contiguous". ICU has the former, but only internally.
 
"std::transform applies the given function to a range and stores the result in another range" That's such a sick joke.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why?
(FWIW, "another range" is allowed to be the same range)
 
2:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz how? You mean that another range could be (one of the) input ranges?
 
I mean it's header is (first, second, first, op).
 
@BartekBanachewicz Perhaps you mean it applies to the elements in a range
 
not (a, b, op)
 
DAMN
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ah the mere use of the word range. Okay, granted. I thought you had a real gripe :)
@DeadMG Whom?
 
2:12 PM
I remembered a bug in my spec, and then forgot it again in about half a second flat.
gargh.
 
user142019
You suck.
 
@sehe nah, I'm just whining. Everyone agrees at it conceptually, yet still we'll have to wait for C++14 or C++17
And even then probably we won't get rid of iterators
because "backwards compatibility"
 
@BartekBanachewicz The problem is that defining range objects is somewhat less trivial than it appears.
 
@BartekBanachewicz FWIW, the current standard does define something called a "range".
 
2:13 PM
@BartekBanachewicz We don't want to get rid of iterators.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol?
 
We do want to have more convenience on the call site.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. That is why the documentation uses that.
 
To me, boost range is quite ok
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Defined by begin and end iterators? :)
 
2:14 PM
Yes.
 
Well, fuck that ain't no range.
 
It's just a concept for exposition, not in the library though.
 
@BartekBanachewicz boost::iterator_range...
 
But that is why the docs refer to "ranges".
 
The docs suck.
 
2:15 PM
hmm
 
@BartekBanachewicz doc sucker!
 
@sehe Actually, what I want is convenience at the implementation site :/
 
I think C++ really should get rid of all the crap. That's what PHP is doing
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not everybody agrees on ranges, at least as they're currently defined (e.g., in D). Just for example, Alex Stepanov had some pretty harsh comments about Andrei's "Iterators must go" presentation.
 
They are going the IE path
 
2:16 PM
@JerryCoffin Is that readable anywhere?
 
@JerryCoffin well, iterators must go. If we won't accept ranges, we have to come up with something different, because current concept is certainly flawed
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Probably -- I saw it online, but have no recollection of where.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes okay :) fair.
 
And I think looking at any other language that has sensible collections processing is the easiest way. D, python, whatever makes sense
 
2:17 PM
the iterators, where must they go to?
 
@sehe But you are right: if you want convenience as a user, Boost.Range is made for that.
 
They're taking the iterators to Isengard!
3
 
@melak47 I had to make an enormous effort to not burst out laughing like a madman here in the office.
 
man
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is every boost library supposed to be written as that? I thought it only appliest to Boost.Python.
 
2:19 PM
thank you, Stephan, so much, for N3421.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it doesn't take much does it
@DeadMG is this mr stood putter?
 
user142019
I'm going to buy a microcontroller.
 
yes
 
@BartekBanachewicz C++ has sensible collections processing.
 
@DeadMG what exactly in n3421?
 
2:20 PM
What Python has nice is generator syntax.
 
Which is perfectly implementable in C++
 
...wait, what? free RSA keys (bonus: the language tags)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not really. No GC brings a bunch of issues.
 
@Zoidberg you and your fucking C obsession :P
 
2:21 PM
@DeadMG I'm reading it right now, but I wanted to know if I should focus on anything in particular?
 
user142019
@thecoshman ?
 
I am some what tempted to get a FPGA for mass server control
 
@melak47 Wow, some of them are the private ones.
 
user142019
Can also use C++.
 
@Zoidberg most uC use C
 
2:22 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Not particularly. I am finding it especially convenient in general.
 
hang on... why am I learning Erlang, Verilog would be smarter
 
@thecoshman µC FTFY :P (Admit it, you knew it was coming)
 
@DeadMG well, the propositions make sense. So what's the connection with the said guy?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yep :/
 
@melak47 at least a few of those are the .pubs
 
2:23 PM
I'm writing a proposal that basically requires that functionality.
but instead of having to propose it myself, Stephan comes along and has it accepted for me
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, but a) it's accepted enough to use u rather then the proper greek leter b) I have no idea how to type the greek letter of the top of my head and c) zero fucks given. Supplemental, fuck spelling and capitalisation
 
German keyboard ftw, eh @R.MartinhoFernandes?
 
Updated my hash proposal, tell me wat u think
 
@thecoshman What?
 
@thecoshman For some reason, the German layout has AltGr+M for that particular Greek letter... :P
 
2:25 PM
@Collin FPGA, think micro-controller on steroids
 
@ScottW noo, now I'll have to try and forget that again so I don't have to endure waiting that long. I wanted to be surprised ._.
 
@thecoshman µµµµµµµ?
 
@thecoshman No, I know exactly what an FPGA is, it's not a microcontroller on steroids
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Only need to shift on a French layout :|
 
Visual studio lets me use µ in function names :3
 
2:26 PM
@Collin why did you ask, and it's simply enough explination
 
cuteZOMBIES
fluffyHUNGRY
kittensEVIL
 
@thecoshman I meant how were you going to do server control with it?
 
@LucDanton Well, on my laptop I also have a Greek layout on quick dial, and there there is no modifier at all!
 
@BartekBanachewicz ..?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah but do you think the French language has much use for a µ?
 
2:27 PM
@melak47 You would have to read extremely complex and advanced ISO C++ standard proposal n3421 to understand that.
 
@LucDanton I'd say as much as German.
 
@Collin ¬_¬ they tend to have masses of IO pins, combined with realtime execution, equals masses of PWM signals, along with some communication to something like a pi
 
I wish I could communicate with pies.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Putting that on whatever level corresponds to AltGr seems like the right thing to do.
 
@thecoshman Oh, you mean just flipping signals on and off, I thought you meant doing some sort of communication with them, that's a bit difficult in HDL
 
2:28 PM
@melak47 ask @Mysticial how he does it.
oh, wait, that's pi's
 
I think I want an ATmega instead of Pi
 
@Collin well, all a server is PWM, I think I can handle that with a FPGA, you had any experience with them?
 
@DeadMG, how can I make functor passed to bound_function own its bound_function object? i.e. how can I use it for a function like void CallAsync(void(*f)()); ?
 
@LucDanton But, but, why no π?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well you wouldn't want it on AltGr+M would you?
 
2:30 PM
Erm.
 
@thecoshman Maybe I'm confused about what you mean by server? or by PWM?
 
AltGr+P produces no result.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So you'd rather have no µ?
 
@thecoshman Or do you mean servo? Like a little electric motor?
 
Also, TIL π in German is Kreiszahl "circle number".
@DeadMG I would rename line_iterator to line_break_iterator (and lines to line_breaks) as it does not really iterator over lines. Yes, I'm bikeshedding, sue me.
 
2:31 PM
@Abyx You can't make the functor passed to bound_function own the bound_function- then it would own itself.
you have to have an external owner.
 
Xeo
Yay, the server's now running on my Linux guest while I'm connecting from the host with the flash client. Problem solved without getting flash on Linux.
 
@Collin lol, I meant servo :P and PWM -> pulse width modulation
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it looks odd when you use a capital pi :/
 
@DeadMG yeah, it will own itself and use a shared_ptr or delete this; at end of the function.
 
@melak47 Why?
 
2:33 PM
@thecoshman Oooohhh... Yeah, an FPGA can do that. Lots of microcontrollers though have dedicated PWM pins and might be easier to use though
 
@Abyx You'd have to do something like
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because it's like one of your broken unicode bananas :p
 
@melak47 (This is a capital pi Π, btw, not π)
@Abyx I don't think that can be done if you have no control over CallAsync.
 
Although if you were to memory map some sort of register interface controlling lots of PWM pins on an FPGA to a microcontroller, that would work
 
@Collin I've yet to find any that have the number of IO pins I would like, and would rather not use multiple units or attempt to multiplex the signals. Have you used verilog by any chance?
 
2:35 PM
@thecoshman Not really, I took a one day class in VHDL once, it broke my brain
 
@Collin you can program FPGAs in C, y'know
 
from the sounds of it, verilog is more actively developered
@BartekBanachewicz can you now...
 
@BartekBanachewicz VHDL is so much better for that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but C doesn't make your brain melt... oh wait.
 
2:36 PM
I don't even think the proposal well-defines that behaviour.
 
¬_¬ one day a subject will arise in here to which no one knows anything about
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Where is his line_iterator? Is it significantly different from Uncle Bens's?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not well.
 
I had a VHDL class once.
 
@thecoshman sparkfun.com/products/11498 <- 15 PWM outputs?
 
2:37 PM
@JerryCoffin Real line iterators are an algorithm defined by the Unicode Standard.
 
@Collin desire at least 18
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, its semantics are completely different. It is used to find "line break opportunities", not lines.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's it like?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh -- okay.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That one doesn't find lines in an existing range, it just gives out lines.
 
2:38 PM
@DeadMG According to what?
FWIW, UAX#14 does not define lines.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I read the implementation?
 
It only defines places where it is suitable to place a line break.
 
oh
 
@thecoshman legal age?
 
you're referring to UAX#14, and I'm referring to UncleBen's line iterator.
hence the confusion.
 
2:39 PM
Ah, k.
 
@sehe 6 legs each with 3 dof
 
@thecoshman please tell me you got the joke
 
@BartekBanachewicz he did
 
@BartekBanachewicz ¬_¬of course I did, I just didn't care much for it
 
@thecoshman Like Verilog, I suppose. IOW, I know nothing else like it.
 
2:40 PM
@thecoshman you didn't have to tell that
 
@sehe he actually cared :)
My list of things I want to do after exams is growing bigger. That's scary
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Verilog is vaguely like C, whereas VHDL is a lot more like Ada (at least in syntax).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes this is where I hope you know nothing easy
 
@Abyx You can't do that, the instructions you're trying to execute are owned by the bound_function. If you destructed the bound_function, you'd likely free the code you're trying to execute.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think he cared more about coming back with something witty enough
 
2:41 PM
@sehe That wasn't witty at all.
 
I think I am leaning towards going with VHDL
 
@JerryCoffin Ah, but they both share that "everything happens at once" paradigm, right?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I didn't say that
 
@DeadMG it depends on implementation.
 
2:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think so. You write hardware, not software... apparently
 
@thecoshman sparkfun.com/products/10593 <- This thing plus an arduino.. I think you can reprogram the spartan on it
 
@Abyx But I'd be banning all implementations where you can't implement it as a perfect trampoline, and who knows how many platforms that might be?
 
Xeo
Roughly translated: "Hey, pssssst, need a few RSA-Keys? Github delivers!"
3
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, definitely.
 
@DeadMG if the thunk has call + ret, then yes, I can't destroy it, but if it's jmp, it's OK
 
2:43 PM
@Collin wooowawhwahwahw that's nice
 
right, but I can't guarantee that every implementation on every platform can use jmp.
 
@DeadMG screw that platforms =\
 
@Collin ... that's a GPU for the arduino :S
 
@Abyx Could add a "self-destruct" parameter.
 
@thecoshman That might be related to them being called HDLs "Hardware Description Languages".
 
2:44 PM
REGEX to get 5 digit zip code from a text of containing full address ?
 
@DeadMG Take a std::chrono::duration! ;)
 
@thecoshman kinda, but the chip is just a small FPGA, reprogram the thing, re-use the pins.. tada!
 
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you think?
@Collin what makes you so sure you can?
 
@Collin is Arduino just ATmega bundle?
@user1537158 \d{2}-\d{3}
 
2:45 PM
@thecoshman I'm not certain, but the comments say they have the JTAG pins marked.. so.. maybe?
@BartekBanachewicz something like that, I forget the exact processor
 
@Dead btw, I see no mention in your proposal of what version of Unicode should the algorithms support.
 
@BartekBanachewicz /d{5}/ surely?
 
good point.
 
@Collin well, in Poland you can buy stuff like these for around 50E
 
What do you intend? Set a minimum and provide a means for client code to detect support for new ones?
 
@thecoshman Or maybe even something like this: xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/AES-S6MB-LX9.htm
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm, I'll probably take the same approach as to the C Standard- refer to an explicit version, and then up that explicit version in another version of the C++ Standard if necessary.
 
Then you don't even need a processor, you put the soft-core on the FPGA
 
@Collin perhaps... like I said, need at least 18 IO pins
 
6.2 is the most recent finalized version, no?
 
2:48 PM
Yes.
6.3 is due out in March, IIRC.
 
yeah
fuck it, I'll go 6.3
 
@DeadMG version of what?
 
Unicode.
 
Ok. I think there are a few other version-related things to consider, especially about stability, but I will make you a list tomorrow, or in the weekend.
 
@thecoshman don't have the scematics, but I'm assuming those two 12-pin headers just go do the FPGA
 
2:51 PM
Wait, not March.
2013Q3
I knew it was in 3 of 2013, but it's Q, not M.
 
@Collin still, I'll have to look into what exactly I want to by at a later date
 
sure
 
don't know enough yet to know where to spend he money
also need to source a crate of decent servers as well... and a way to power the lot
in short, it's a long road
especially considering how little time I get to do things :(
 
6.3 tunes the cuneiform numeric properties, just case you are writing numbers in ancient Babylonic and your system is not treating them properly.
 
lol
lol
 
Xeo
2:54 PM
The fuck.
 
Yeah, Oracle is making a great job.
 
Ummm... WAT
 
As if Java isn't a deception, no need for more deceptive malware
 
> This was only a test, designed to make sure you were paying attention. You passed. This answer has already been removed, but if it hadn't, your flag would have helped to ensure that it was. Thanks!
SO isn't trusting me :(
 
@LucDanton A little bit. That way we can simply see if it's dark outside by looking up.
 
2:57 PM
@EtiennedeMartel The minimap is dynamic :p
 
I know, I know.
 
with regards to lighting that is
 
@BartekBanachewicz What. Where. This is crazy. (Don't call me, maybe)
 
But I like windows and shit.
 
@BartekBanachewicz It does that to everyone.
 
2:58 PM
@EtiennedeMartel "It looks nice" is reason enough!
 
@sehe It's a review audit, intended to find rubber stampers.
 
@sehe That song is actually pretty good :)
 
Alright, gonna get to work. Fantastic weather today. I hope I don't freeze solid.
 
Oh, pups, what about case-insensitive comparisons/case-folding?
 
3:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have case conversion, but not case-insensitive comparison.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Good luck!
 
@EtiennedeMartel You pussy. It's obviously not very cold in Canada compared to here.
 
@DeadMG Yeah, but you cannot build one on top of the other.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can't implement case-insensitive comparison on top of case conversion?
 
3:01 PM
You need case folding, which is a distinct operation from to_upper, to_lower, or to_title.
 
ohh
I've never heard of case folding.
 
Consider to_upper(ß) == SS and to_upper(ss) == SS.
 
but they're not case-insensitively equal?
 
Case folding is a case conversion that does not have this kind of conflicts.
@DeadMG ß can sometimes be replaced by ss, but not the reverse. They are not always equivalent.
 
huh
do I need case folding distinctly, or just case insensitive comparison?
 
3:05 PM
Case folding is only useful for comparison, AFAIK.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes cool plan, actually
 
I.e. it is an artificial notion, not something that comes from any language.
 
right
do I need any other case-insensitive algorithms, or just ==?
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, a bit overhyped, me overexposed, but it's nice and un-standard
 
I want check the values, but it can be something like casefold(ß) == ß and casefold(ss) == SS.
@DeadMG Ordering, maybe?
 
3:07 PM
case-insensitive collation?
 
I would need to check that annex.
 
Don't blame me.
 
@ScottW u so mean
 
@DeadMG Wait, maybe there is no case-sensitive collation. I think the collation algorithm conflates capitals and lowercase letters unless they are from weird languages where they are really different. Yeah, I would really need to read this.
It makes no sense to get "Aachen, Zürich, cat" (at least to my western-shaped mind).
 
lol
 
3:10 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes cat's always have the last laugh
 
@LucDanton Took me too long to get that...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm all subtle like.
 
@LucDanton You subtly a.
(annex: word)
 
No I didn't!
Some would have added a dash I suppose: 'all subtle-like'.
 
@Dead And for now I can't think of anything else missing.
 
3:19 PM
kk
 
@LucDanton ow. that is subtle
 
Anyways, @TonyTheLion should be happy with the degree to which people are prepared to humour him^
 
github.com,207.97.227.239 ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAAB....
 
3:21 PM
Bartek even vowed to go experiment with inserting things in the back
 
I think you are reading too much into the starboard.
 
You think?
 
@sehe so "you suck" was an imperative rather than declarative statement.
 
DeadMG's Unicode proposal has Xsux in it.
 
@StackedCrooked that would break the conjunction, the other leg doesn't allow for this interpretation
 
3:25 PM
@sehe ...leg? what's going on here
 
branch
 
3 hours ago, by Tony The Lion
let's talk about sex
 
@melak47 (psst. I'm pulling it)
 
user142019
$ alias 'su=sudo rm -rf /'
 
user142019
In someone's .zshrc. :P
 
3:29 PM
[rmf@persephone ogonek]$ sudo rm -rf /
[sudo] password for rmf:
rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/`
rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe
[rmf@persephone ogonek]$
 
user142019
$ alias 'su=sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root /'
 
s/su=/sudo=/
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, would be funny if suddenly it didn't give that warning this time. :^)
 
@Zoidberg It hasn't worked since 2006.
 
user142019
lol. That edit is good.
 
3:31 PM
I am quite confident in it.
 
user142019
3:42 PM
I use Wombat.
 
Monokai
 
user142019
Monokai hurtz my eyez.
 
why is sublime so expensive?
 
user142019
Because its authors want to live decently.
 
user142019
And living decently costs money in most countries.
 
user142019
3:46 PM
Also use Vim.
 
Right, but I imagine they're going to get more people buying if it were say $15, possibly outweighing the 4x difference
yeah, I've tried and been reasonably happy with sublime, but not enough to really get me to leave emacs
 
user142019
I just installed MacVim for this Java shit.
 
user142019
Because I have no JVM in Linux. xD
 
Windows > *nix
 
@ScottW c++ > vim
 
user142019
3:52 PM
@Abyx "nix" is Dutch slang for "nothing"
 
It's not slang.
 
fucking Manager with his fucking meetings at fucking half fucking four
3
I WANT TO GO FUCK DAMN IT
 
@thecoshman FAMN IT FTFY
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
why the fuck does he wait till we all want to go home to talk about new teams! he's spent fucking ages twating around with them
 
3:59 PM
new teams, that sounds kinda interesting
 

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