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12:00 AM
Blaarrrgh I'm still in MSVC 2010.
 
Anyway, sleep, bye.
 
@CatPlusPlus Sleep well. Thanks for helping me!
I guess I should upgrade to MSVC 2012 as soon as possible?
To get all this magical magic I'm apparently missing?
 
Dunno. I don't use MSVC.
 
Ah. I use both MSVC and GCC
 
12:02 AM
But you can do for(auto it = v.begin(); it != v.end(); ++it) { stuff with *it }.
 
I haven't had the need to touch Apple's Clang yet
 
@ThePhD I haven't tried this, but you can probably just pull the VSC++ 2012 compilers from a VS2012 express installation.
 
Not as clean, but not really that nasty.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah I was flurbled pretty hard when that happened. Then for him to take my code and post it saying "here is my code" ... I had to regroup for a minute. Here's what I did:
 
The IDEs and the compilers are separate executables.
 
12:03 AM
@sehe I suppose you wanted to reply to someone.
 
@Insilico Sounds like a plan.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I did, thanks.
 
@ThePhD Of course the MSVC++ compilers have dependencies on other files
But you can download VS2012 express edition for desktop and play around with the new MSVC++2012 compiler first.
 
Quite an intrusive edit, but hey, it makes the question a lot clearer and simpler, and more fair (in attributing the code to the existing answer).
Now, here's my answer: DRUM ROLL:
0
A: Boolean expression using Boost

seheYou accidentally mistyped and_ as and__. This will make it compile. I'll post a cleaned up version shortly.

ROFLMAO
 
12:04 AM
LOTRMAO.
 
@Insilico I'm going to abuse the fact that I'm a student and get MSVC 2012 Professional for free. I'm almost 99% certain they release that version to students.
 
What a Royal Jerk!
 
@ThePhD It's on DreamSpark since last week, I think.
 
@ThePhD You're not really "abusing" the fact that you're a student.
 
@Insilico @R.MartinhoFernandes Sweet. I'm reluctant to use MSVC 2012, though. It's IDE feels a lot stranger and a bit ugly compared to VS2010. It still feels better than Eclipse, though. I'm probably pretty biased, though. I went from Notepad++ to VS2008 to VS2010 to Eclipse (on Fedora x86) to Code::Blocks and now I'm jumping between a Fedora and a Windows to make sure this code works across both platforms.
 
12:07 AM
Oh, yeah, ugly. Definitely.
 
There. I posted the cleaned up version (%g/xor/d). Now, can I fish for a sympathy upvote - for not flagging the guy to death and actually helping him while showing how it's done round here on SO? <big-grin/>
 
Offers an upvote.
 
@sehe g doesn't need % (it would be kinda worthless without it).
 
Related: liveworkspace.org gives troubles again (cannot create temporary directory)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh well, I wasted a keystroke :)
I wasted quite a bit more time understanding how this ..... misguided person got to the .... misguided question posted in this ... miguided manner :)
 
12:11 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not, then, a real vim ninja. I don't care about strokes. I care about productivity.
@ThePhD Cheers
 
@sehe Yeah, me neither. But it felt appropriate.
 
@E'rybuhdeh - So... it's safe to say I shouldn't make my own Pointer<> class and just use unique_ptr<> to save myself the implementation agony, while also making sure the copy constructors for my array class Deep-Copy pointer values (or just use the shared/unique_ptr) ?
 
Did I mention Spirit still scares me?
@ThePhD I'd simply replace usages of Array with std::vector.
 
@CJAN I hope you don't mind I fixed your question to be clearer. This way, everyone benefits, don't you agree? You get upvotes for a less-bad question, you get an answer for it, and I get the credit that was due IMO :) Welcome to Stack Overflow. I hope you will keep contributing to this great community. — sehe 10 secs ago
^ Chalk another down to "forecful embrace" practice.
 
You make it sound like I'm awesome. Oh, wait... ;)
 
12:20 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Haha. Good to hear. Let me have one thing that I (currently) know more about than you do :)
 
things in C++ i haven't used yet: (1) the new threading stuff, (2) variadic templates, (3) tuples, (4) template typedefs, (5) inherited and forwarding constructors
i think maybe vs 2012 got support for the threading
i'll look into that
 
Inherited ctors are only in the Borland compiler so far.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I still remember how this lame user guy got coerced to asking a simple question about memory leaks and you got your freehand... stars?
Pretty much the same tactic used there
@Cheersandhth.-Alf So, what are you using UDLs for?
 
oh, and (6) the new exception support, and (7) the extremely silly system message thing (it's probably at least as a bad as the old message thing)
what is UDL
 
User-defined literals.
 
12:22 AM
Urrfff.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf With (7) you mean system_error and the error categories and shit?
 
i'm not actively using them, because vs doesn't support them, BUT i would use them for real Unicode strings (platform-dependent encoding)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Seems like taken from boost. Not bad, but not oft-needed
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, it works only in Unix
it's even more Unix-specific than main
 
@sehe It seems too complex for my tastes.
 
12:23 AM
very bad
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Even the implementation in boost?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mmm. I never (voluntarily) used it so maybe I should refrain from judging it
 
I looked into it and it seems the standard error codes map one-to-one with POSIX.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I haven't looked at it, but given that Boost filesystem isn't up to doing things properly with Unicode (doesn't work with G++ in Windows for international filenames), I doubt it's better quality for the message API
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Most filesystems are char encoding neutral, anyways. It's just the UIs that care.
 
12:25 AM
boost filesystem depends heavily on Microsoft extensions to the standard library, with wide character constructors for file stream objects
of course that's a defect in the standard... :-(
 
3 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
They're stuck in the distant past when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
I'm going to use that as my standard "The committee fucked up" message. I don't care if it doesn't fit.
 
but i think the reason that it has not been rectified is the old *nix/microsoft war
 
I should be hacking on ogonek, but instead I'm playing with simulated qubits in Haskell. :S
 
ogonek = ?
 
12:28 AM
by the way, quantum computing probably DOES NOT WORK
 
In my simulation, it does :P
 
except for the time used...
 
11 hours ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
O M F G. I am listening to a conference call right now. So, they are all talking and stuff. In a second, a guy jumps into our room, comes to my boss's microphone, shouts "IT'S NOT GONNA WORK" and runs away
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Also, "probably" - nice choice of words there :)
 
he he
ogonek sounds like very nice thing
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Thanks. So far this is the best I have to exhibit: bitbucket.org/martinhofernandes/ogonek/src/e93dcb52ef1c/test/…
Oh, and my grapheme cluster segmentation passes all the official tests :)
2
 
12:33 AM
1 hour ago, by sehe
And I'm out, night all
 
@sehe Have fun.
 
Blood pressure back to normal, finally... sleep
 
fatal error: stddef.h: No such file
^ I've never used this mingw installation before. what's wrong
 
Sounds broken somehow. Does cstddef work?
Does the header exist?
 
checking
[D:\dev\test]
> type bar.cpp
#include <cstddef>

[D:\dev\test]
> gnuc bar.cpp

[D:\dev\test]
> set path=c:\Program Files (x86)\MinGW\bin;C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 11.0\Common7\IDE\CommonExtensions\Microsof
indow;C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft SDKs\F#\3.0\Framework\v4.0\;C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 11.0\VSTSDB\Deploy;
ram Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 11.0\Common7\IDE\;C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 11.0\VC\BIN;C:\Program Files
Microsoft Visual Studio 11.0\Common7\Tools;C:\windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319;C:\windows\Mi
i have no CPATH defined
the file is there
i wonder if this could be a revival of the mid-1990 problem where spaces in paths were problematic
 
12:50 AM
Hmm, weird. I can't find stddef.h in my installation either, but cstddef works.
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Hmm, my installation is at \mingw, so I can't discard that possibility.
Ah wait, found it.
It's at mingw\lib\gcc\i686-pc-mingw32\4.7.0\include\stddef.h
 
That I know of, I don't have any env variables set up.
I use the package from here btw: nuwen.net.
 
STL's
OK I'll do that
But as I recall last I looked at it it bundled a lot of other stuff?
 
Yes, it contains boost, and other stuff I don't use.
 
i'm downloading. over maybe the slooooooest "broadband" ever in existence.
 
12:59 AM
hehe.
 
it is actually slower than old modem/phone i used to access bbs networks in old times
 
Your ISP's definition of broadband seems quite broad.
 
the fun thing about the bbs networks is they're still there, running over telnet on the big internet
even "the well" is still up and running :-)
 
'The well' ?
 
i think it's in houston, texas
The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, normally shortened to The WELL, is one of the oldest virtual communities in continuous operation. As of June 2012, it had 2,693 members. It is best known for its Internet forums, but also provides email, shell accounts, and web pages. The discussion and topics on the WELL range from deeply serious to trivial, depending on the nature and interests of the participants. History The WELL was started by Stewart Brand and Larry Brilliant in 1985, and the name is partially a reference to some of Brand's earlier projects, including the Whole Earth Catalog. The ...
 
1:02 AM
...
Whoa.
 
1:24 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I had a problem with that one. He disables shared libgcc or libstdc or both. I think that's the reason why I couldn't throw exceptions across dll boundaries. That works with the original distro
 
1:42 AM
Oh
This reminds me!
... Oh wait
no it doesn't. Nevermind.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:15 AM
... Q_Q
LNK2019 errors
It's all my fault.
 
 
1 hour later…
Yeah, that's old news.
 
I just heard about it.
I wonder if my government had something to do with it.
Seems likely
 
@Chimera There was an article in one of the big newspapers a few months after Stuxnet first appeared that it was almost certainly a collaborative effort between the US and Isreal
And there's a second worm too that's closely related to Stuxnet
 
Yeah i read that on the Wikipedia site
Daqu?
 
4:44 AM
Flame
And I think this is the newspaper article
The coolest thing about Flame was that it used a new algorithm to break MD5
 
HEy anyone wanna help me with something in php? No ones available in php
 
@DavidBiga What makes you think the C++ room knows php?
 
@DavidBiga Everyone here hates PHP with a passion.
 
Sorry I mean I started with c++ and its great....You never know but it was worth trying.
 
Wow...I am shocked the us would admit it. Or did they just get caught by a leak?
Probably a leak.
 
4:50 AM
I don't remember if the article says that anyone admitted anything. I think it's more of tracing stuff back and coming to the conclusion that it was probably US and Israel
 
The beginning of the article makes it sound as if its a known fact.
 
It does ... maybe they did get someone to admit it
 
Not sure how i feel about it if the US was involved.
 
@Chimera How would you feel if the US attacked Iran?
 
I'm weary of war.
I would have mixed feelings
 
4:58 AM
Well, let's say the wars of the future might be waged on a different front: the Internet.
 
Oh yeah, i think that has likely begun.
 
The Chinese armed forces are hiring hackers.
 
I know the US government is concerned about Iran developing nukes. Wonder what the European countries think.
 
5:34 AM
Why is someone downvoting my QUESTION?
0
Q: Flickering in cam video display, why?

Cheers and hth. - AlfI get flickering in my cam video display, even though I (think I) turned off background erasure. Why? Even the text display above the video presentation flickers. Full code at Bitbucket. Perhaps most relevant code, the gizmo that display the video: class ImageDisplay: public gizmo::SubG...

 
5:57 AM
it gets a bit recursive then
 
6:09 AM
I actually wonder how many downvoted questions a 20k user needs to ask before he/she gets question banned.
Like supposed Jon Skeet stopped answering questions and starting asking i = i++ questions in C++ 5 times a day, every day. How long would it take for him to get question banned? :P
 
6:24 AM
@Mysticial He'd probably get shot. We hope.
 
@Mysticial How about a proposal to make i = i++ well defined like in Java, just so we can finally shut up all those stupid question askers with a simple answer? :)
 
@FredOverflow You can't. The fundamental issue is that it isn't googleable.
 
Crap. Good thing my own, theoretical language doesn't have ++i but uses inc(i) instead :D
 
@FredOverflow That might be a good idea. It'll turn all those downvoted questions into +100s with gold badges - like it does in Java...
 
I think I'm gonna start a rep career asking i = i++ questions in . Chicks and money, here I come!
@Cheersandhth.-Alf "Probably"? Was that a pun?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are you aware of the video were some smart person uses Perl to travel back in time? :)
> Watch in horror as Damian writes a Perl program to extract square roots using nothing but quantum mechanics, general relativity, and the very fabric of the space-time continuum. Along the way we'll also investigate: Wittgenstein's dark secret; the diminishing returns of physical computation; Roman philosophy; when Super Science Adventures go wrong;
> the greatest Lego kit of all time; the secret identity of Sith; carbon logic vs silicon logic; the giants of 1930's physics; elementary spin-half quanta under relativistic motion; CAT scans; Will Smith; bongos; drunken bets involving penguins; algorithmic consistency; God's dice and the problem of free will; intrinsic self-inconsistency; the many worlds outside Copenhagen; and the inventor of stage diving.
 
6:38 AM
@FredOverflow Turbo Pascal had that starting with version 4.0.
 
@FredOverflow lol... yeah. Believe it or not, I still get upvotes on the Java x = x++ that I answered nearly a year ago... It's kinda ridiculous actually.
 
Some people writes 3 constructors Automatc, Manual, Readymade
 
Ugh, slight flaw in my plans. I'll have to wait six hours in Lisbon. Fuck.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Happy fucking ..... fucking for 6 hours ?? Good Good .......
 
@FredOverflow Erm, the first part is simply the list monad with the artificially added flavour of QM.
I'm disappointed.
 
6:52 AM
Are you implying that one cannot warp space and time with Perl? :(
 
lol
 
Moaning
 
Perl can do anything.
Because it's perl.
 
The problem is, it won't take orders
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that sucks :(
 
6:57 AM
Also, STL is both a blessing and a curse. =[
 
How is it a curse?
 
It's a curse when you want to make an API to be consumed by not-you.
 
I don't get it...
 
That's like saying '(science|money|children|marriage|war) is a blessing and a curse'
 
warning C4251, and all it implies, with accompanying Linker errors. =[
I don't think those happen in GCC though. Actually, I'm not sure. I jsut want this to work in windows, just one time.
Just one F7 that's like "Yeah, man. It's all okay. You can go to sleep now."
 
7:00 AM
@ThePhD It isn't. Unless you have to be all standard-library anal about it, which, frequently, isn't the case.
@ThePhD Oh you mean templates and external linkage are a tricky subject
 
@sehe Yeah, that stuff man. Just, kicking me in the face. This is the one time where I feel like JIT-style compiling really takes the fangs out of some programming issues. Worst part is, almost everything in standard-implemented STL has some kind of template underneath it to make it all go.
"I'll just use this std::stri AAAGH TEMPLATED FROM std::basic_string<stuff, I, don't, understand>"
I'm sure I can figure out some way to make it work
Maybe just
#pragma disable the warning
Convince myself it doesn't exist
 
@ThePhD Sorry for delay. I just recognized that message and thought I'd comment on an obnoxious chat help-vampire's question the other day:
Did you get Compiler Warning (level 1) C4251? That page quite explicitely mentions `All your static data is access through functions that are exported from the DLL`. In the future, you will want to include the compiler error (like I mentioned before you posted here, incidentally) <whistle/>. — sehe 53 secs ago
Oops. that was pretty strong language there, btw. Just noticed :(
 
C4251 is only a problem if you change compiler versions or options.
 
@sehe I think it's fine
 
@jalf I mean the linked chat message :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh. Darn. Still the question is silly without the actual error message, so I'm leaving the comment. He can't blame us for 'making up possible error messages' if he doesn't tell us what he sees, right
 
7:09 AM
oh right :)
 
... Hm. So I just have to suck it up and ignore it if I'm not hitting any of those dll-boundary sweetspots.
I guess it makes sense.
... Sort of kind of not really... but if I stare at it long enough, I'll understand!
 
@ThePhD Most of these can be solved by explicit instantiation. MSVC (used to) have a proprietary extension for exporting templates as a whole, too. I wouldn't personally want to rely on that, but hey, I'm not using MSVC (much)
@jalf So, you agree. in context, I feel that's warranted. It comes as a bit of a shock to myself to read it back :) (Certainly after seeing the posted questino still doesn't show a compiler message)
 
@sehe Explicit instantion... like, specifically declaring class vector<LateNightParty>; in some part of the included code? Wait, I can just google. Don't answer that, sorry.
 
@ThePhD In some translation unit, yes
@ThePhD Use SO search, maybe
 
@sehe Not gonna lie. Sortof proud of myself that I could recognize the term and I got it right. <glory/>
 
7:18 AM
mornin y'all
 
@ThePhD That is a good sign. You'll get there. I'm not gonna lie either: I usually actively avoid exposing templates across dll boundaries. When I do, I have to carefully plan, and I never fail to make a proof-of-concept to check whether my understanding of it still ... 'works' :)
What distinguishes experienced C++ programmers is: anticipating where trouble arises - and, primarily 'steering clear' of the cliffs
 
@sehe You know what would solve my vector<> and string<> woes? ROLLIN' MAH OWN! Badly implemented string and vector, here I come! Gonna get on all of @R.MartinhoFernandes nerves. :D
 
@sehe Once you go over a cliff, you're technically clear of it.
 
@sehe Isn't that what distinguishes all experienced programmers?
 
@Mysticial Well, not unless it is a perfect 90deg decline, really
 
7:21 AM
.... Was it R.MartinhoFernandes who said people badly implement the vector and string? I forgot how to go backwards in this SO chat and find out...
 
@LuchianGrigore (shhh. I'm trying to sound all C++ savvy. Of course, you're right.)
 
@sehe That's true, and it depends on what speed you go over at. Your trajectory will parabolic downwards. So the slope will have to be at least below that.
 
@Mysticial So it still requires actively 'steering clear'. I'll grant to this edit:
> What distinguishes experienced C++ programmers is: anticipating where trouble arises - and, primarily 'steering clear' [of/off] the cliffs
 
@ThePhD Just inherit from it or something.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes cough. inb4 "ooooh the STL containers weren't designed for that"
 
7:23 AM
I dunno, it's pretty hard to steer when you're free-falling.
You have nothing to push against except air.
 
@sehe Private inheritance is fine.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's what I am doing. And that's what's making it shoot off the warnings and go AHMIGAWD C4251
.... Oooh. PRIVATE inheritance.
 
@Mysticial That's where the anticipation comes in: you have to accumulate speed ahead of time
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh that way. Perhaps just aggregate then. I know this is a boundary case. LSP (Is-A) technically doesn't apply, but logically... does. I guess
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So having a private member variable probably doesn't count as private inheritance, because it still requires instantiation of some kind inside the class I guess. So instead of having an internal list<T>, I'd have to just derive from it.... Hm. I'll give it a shot and report back!
 
Private inheritance is not composition.
 
7:27 AM
Wait wait: someone on cpp-next.com disccusion doesn't have a C++11 compiler ?!
So, let me get this straight: here, the guys are discussing state of the art template wankery, the would-be C++ core language feature 'polymorphic lambdas' implemented in C++11, and he doesn't have a c++11 compiler?
 
morning
 
@ThePhD There shouldn't be much of a difference to the linker (as long as both are private), (except for virtual destructors, which don't apply here). However, inheriting privately can still make implementing the interface somewhat more convenient than delegating everything to member.
 
mawning
 
morning
@R.MartinhoFernandes you really don't nop, do you (or do I NMI you now?)
 
He's a robot he doesn't sleep, he NOP's
 
7:34 AM
@TonyTheLion Edited
 
so my team had a big revelation yesterday, keep your WIP in a branch so you don't break the main delivery branch
 
@thecoshman brake <-- lol
 
@sehe I've yet to work out a way to know which is which
stupid homophones
 
@thecoshman WIP is the broken branch, delivery... possibly broken
@thecoshman yeah they racist
afk
 
7:39 AM
@sehe I meant the spelling of break and brake
 
There's a lot of noise in the code. If all you're asking is how to pass a 2d array as parameter, you can illustrate this with a 2-line example. Please do so! — Luchian Grigore 16 secs ago
 
Norwegian newspaper "Dagbladet" reports that castrated men live about 19 years longer than average
2
Oh, they link to BBC
 
7:54 AM
@thecoshman No shit :)
 
Gime a breik.
 
Woot. i think we have new low in help vampiring. That sockpuppet code stealing answer mutilating (homework burgling?) freak CJAN.LEE/userXXXXX from last night just dropped me a line (/cc @R.MartinhoFernandes)
Thanks for your so nice help, but I still have the problem, I give you the log. Too much..Thanks — CJAN.LEE 39 mins ago
@StackedCrooked Those are expensive watches, no?
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Only one way to find out
 
@sehe Dunno if they are watches. Google image search for breik has strange results.
 
@sehe No Shit :)
 
@thecoshman Better late than...
 
7:58 AM
@sehe I just wish there was a way to portray just how sarcastically I want that to come across
 
@thecoshman Use comic sans, maybe?
 
@sehe needs more sarcasm
 
@thecoshman with blue roses
 
2 mins ago, by thecoshman
@sehe needs more sarcasm
totally meant to do that ¬_¬
So much design pattern! it's so hard to read through this vomit
 
sbi
@Cheersandhth.-Alf The website of the German news magazine Der Spiegel yesterday also reported that eunuchs have longer lifes. To which comedian Dieter Nuhr asked: What for?
Good morning, everybody?
And good night to the Merkins! What are you still doing here, shouldn't you be in bed already?
 
8:10 AM
@sbi yes, gm
 
@sbi Who me? I've got homework due tomorrow.
 
sbi
BTW, does anybody know the name of the two guys in the Muppet Show that always joshed the show?
@Mysticial Today, you mean, Shirley?
 
@sbi whatever... My day starts when I wake up in the morning. :)
 
sbi
@Mysticial What do you mean when you talk about "waking up in the morning"? :)
My days start at 5:45 this week.
 
My days usually end at about 5 am. :)
 
sbi
8:15 AM
 
Hello.
 
sbi
@Mysticial You got that wrong. At 5am the night ends, not the day.
 
Day doesn't end until I sleep.
:)
 
@Rapptz same :)
 
@sbi good moaning
@CJAN.LEE Your compiler doesn't support C++11 because it stems from the Pleistocene. Will try to adapt code sample... — sehe 17 mins ago
 
8:22 AM
@sbi Statler and Waldorf?
 
^ updated my answer as well. repwhore me :)
 
sbi
 
hi folks! Good news - I've just got an email with a job invitation. For. C++. Senior. In game industry. yeehaw.
 
@BartekBanachewicz senior position? really? what company?
 
8:29 AM
@LuchianGrigore well, that's the problem, I guess. It's from middleman
 
What's that?
 
I'm not exactly sure how it's called...
 
:))
ah
you mean an agency
 
missed the word -.-. yeah, indeed.
That's why I'm not exactly bursting with joy. Agencies tend to send a lot of emails, I guess
However, given that there are little people with Game/C++ experience (everyone learns C#), I can be freaking lucky
If I manage to defend myself at the interview...
 
well... good luck with that
 
8:32 AM
@LuchianGrigore the requirements seem sensible. 4 years of C++ and OOP, OpenGL ES
documentation, english
I think I should do a quick tour of "How not to sound dumb as OpenGL dev. talking about ES"
 
sbi
It's a head hunter. A jobivore. I have never had any luck with them. All they do is matching buzzwords they don't understand. The difference between them and stupid buzzword matching algorithms is that algorithms don't make errors.
@BartekBanachewicz Is it really only little people who learn C++? :)
SCNR.
 
@sbi bah. I really didn't sleep well last night; which is especially obvious when looking at my grammar today
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz You didn't sleep well, last night, because you were looking at your grammar today? Have you ever considered buying a lottery ticket? :D
 
@sbi Who cares? As long as they'll make an opportunity for me to interview... I can only gain on this situation. Best case - I'll get hired. Worst case - nothing changes.
 
@BartekBanachewicz do you have 4 years C++ exp?
Seems like a lot
 
8:39 AM
@LuchianGrigore I have around 9 yrs of C++ exp
 
I have 2.5
Aren't you 20?
 
:))
ok
I think everyone means "professional experience" when they say experience.
 
But I'm not EPIC 9 years. I just coded when I was young.
 
Completely different.
 
8:40 AM
whatever. Even if you had 9 yrs of proffesional experience, if you didn't learn C++11, you are behind.
I was actively learning and trying to keep relatively up-to-date through all these years
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz I am at xing.com, a German social website, mostly frequented by academics. I get anything between 1 and 5 message by head hunters per month via this. And 95% of them I can dismiss after a cursory read of the first paragraph. (Todays exemplar asked me to do VB.NET, because, after looking at my CV (listing C++, C++, and C++ — and some C#/.NET as a footnote, they found me a good match for their company. WTF? All the guy saw was .NET, and he matched it to VB.NET.)
 
@BartekBanachewicz You'll soon learn that knowing some obscure syntax is a secondary skill, especially with sites such as Stack Overflow when in a few minutes you can find the best solution to your problem... I think reading other people's code is much more important. Communication as well. Being able to estimate. Figuring out a good design. Stuff you can't learn unless you do it professionally.
 
@sehe It is a bit harsh, but eh, I wouldn't worry about it. Sometimes, harshness is called for :)
 
@LuchianGrigore I didn't work alone. I've engaged myself in various projects for the last 7 years. With other people, also writing their code. Point is, I was too ambitious and rarely anything ever got finished
 
Definitely don't start with this ^ in the interview...
 
8:46 AM
I am not going to. I will start with the project I've recently managed to complete and sell.
Which is kind of remark that maybe I'm starting to grow up with not only C++ proficiency, but also project planning etc.
 
What tools did you use for planning?
 
Mostly Trac milestone system
 
it kept me in sync with the "what is going to be fixed right now" and "what can wait". Also "who does what"
 
That's certainly a plus. Good for you.
But I think you're underestimating professional experience.
 
sbi
8:49 AM
@BartekBanachewicz If he's 20, and has 9 years of C++ experience, C++ and 11 naturally matched right at the beginning of his relationship with the language. (I agree, though, that, while "I started doing C++ when I was 11yo" looks nice in an interview, it's mostly professional experience they'll be looking at.)
 
Well, it wasn't perfect all the time, of course. But I can say, looking at my previous failed projects, I learned a lot. The fact that the project never succeeded doesn't mean I can't get some experience and "post mortem" from it
 
@LuchianGrigore doesn't hurt to try :)
 
Sure, it's great having flexibility and doing what you want, writing your own specs & such, but most of the time that doesn't happen.
 
Most of the guys that I've worked with in my classes are worse than me at C and C++.
 
Esp so early on in your career.
 
8:50 AM
@jalf More fuel for some delightful Java bashing :)
 
@Mysticial That’s not very difficult.
 
@jalf I'm not saying that.
 
I didn't do real programming until I was 16.
 
It's definitely a plus. But if I was interviewing him and he said he had 9 years experience, I'd just start laughing...
 
Most people are terrible at C and C++.
 
8:50 AM
I'll be honest at the interview, anyway. I'm not going to say I'm as good as experienced Senior. I'm going to say that until this point I've made everything for the past 9 years to take me to that position.
 
@daknøk Worse than me and it's their best language.
 
Most people are terrible at programming anyway.
Most people aren’t programmers.
 
There's a joke around, that most of the IT entry-level jobs require around 2 years at the similar position :P
 
Fucking post!!!!
 
8:52 AM
@daknøk exactly ^^.
 
sbi
@Mysticial Yeah, but don't underestimate the importance of soft skills. Some of your peers might become better when they focus on this one skill, whereas, if you are a unable to communicate effectively (which I have no reason to believe in your case, given what I see here), then that's much harder to fix.
 
I’m going to use node.js for my website. Python is meh for webdev.
 
@daknøk node.js is pretty young
 
@BartekBanachewicz me too.
 
I could've written "inmature" ;p Webdev is meh, while we're at it
 
8:56 AM
IT < webdev < Java/C# dev < C++ < functional < assembler
 
@daknøk I've broken the time-space continuum and thus I have experience and a job. Yay!
 

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