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10:00 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes But then why doesn’t this work?
 
Xeo
@LuchianGrigore A protection against rage-quits
 
[ $(true) ] && echo yes || echo no
 
Xeo
Or do you mean posts of other people?
 
@sbi what's a lamp post?
@Xeo I'm going through old 0-score answers...
 
sbi
@LuchianGrigore This
 
10:00 AM
@sbi Okey, let's just stop at "include pollution is bad"
 
@KonradRudolph Oh, silly me. Because test tests for empty string :S It worked for false and I stopped thinking.
 
user784668
@KonradRudolph POSIX shells are bad for sanity.
 
You'd be amazed how huge your source files are after preprocessing. Frequently > 10k lines.
 
Xeo
@LuchianGrigore Meh, why bother?
 
sbi
10:03 AM
@BartekBanachewicz That everybody agrees with.
Of course, that brings us back to the mentioned phenomena of of small project "mushrooming" into big projects. Including everything "just in case", or because it's faster than thinking about the architecture, is faster in small projects, but in a big project it can bring development to a grinding halt really quickly.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked #include <iostream> -> 22k lines with clang++ -E
 
@Xeo so I get a better score/answer ratio :D
 
@Xeo Lol.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think I may die of shame. Trivial mistake :/
 
I am going to sleep at 9p.m. today. BRB, I need another coffee
 
10:04 AM
@Xeo One thing I actually learned at the C++ course at the job is that you should avoid including iostream in headers and include iosfwd instead.
 
@LuchianGrigore Haha.
 
sbi
@Xeo That's small! On Windows, the std lib needs to #include <windows.h> everywhere (because that's what you have to do on windows if you need any system facility), and that quickly turns "Hello, world!" a several 100kLoC TU.
 
Xeo
@sbi Wait, what?
 
I want to get mine at 5. So now I only answer when I'm sure I can get more than 4 votes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's at 25.5 now...
 
Xeo
10:05 AM
@StackedCrooked Absolutely.
 
@LuchianGrigore Wait, what?
 
So... 2.5
pretty crappy...
 
sbi
@Xeo I remember <iostream> dragging in 25kLoC of headers, mostly via <windows.h>.
 
Xeo
woah
 
10:06 AM
@LuchianGrigore I think that may be "normal".
 
user784668
@sbi The std lib doesn't #include <windows.h>, I don't see a gazillion of macros polluting all the namespaces. Tested with both GCC and MSVC.
 
Xeo
4.4, meh
 
sbi
@Fanael The situation might have gotten better since the 90s. I haven't looked at it since.
 
@sbi <windows.h> is only needed on the source files, no?
 
Xeo
@Fanael That's what I thought aswell
 
sbi
10:07 AM
What's those floating point numbers you guys are throwing around?
 
@sbi Score/answer ratios.
 
Xeo
@sbi score/answer
 
@sbi score/answer ratio
 
sbi
Yeah, I got it, you can stop now! :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Most of the std lib is templates.
 
user784668
@sbi Oh well, so that's a classic example of spreading FUD.
 
Xeo
10:08 AM
Btw, any built-in way to find that on SO?
 
@sbi But the parts that need system facilities are usually compiled.
 
sbi
2 messages moved to bin
1 message moved to bin
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nowadays.
 
The chat namespace is polluted with unnecessary 'score/answer ratio' includes:(
 
Xeo
10:09 AM
Oh, wait, that may then be lower than 4.4
 
@sbi You know the nineties ended 12 years ago.
 
user784668
@sbi Protip protip protip: we don't care about the nineties anymore.
 
Xeo
3.55
I counted my total rep in, aka also the questions. :/
 
how did we get on this topic
 
sbi
4.03120849933599
 
10:10 AM
Normally.
 
where's my user ID?
 
The last thing I saw was about bugs. I turn away for a few minutes, and now we're on score/answer ratio?
 
@BartekBanachewicz open your profile, it's in the url.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Luchian complained that he could only delete 5 posts per day
And the reason he wanted to do that was to improve the ratio
 
yeah, what's up with that?
 
10:11 AM
@Xeo 0.583 -.-
 
@LuchianGrigore haha
> Possible vandalism of own posts; multiple deletions in a short time; stackoverflow.com/q/6213911 stackoverflow.com/q/6235978 stackoverflow.com/q/6236016 stackoverflow.com/q/6236034 stackoverflow.com/q/6464247 – 12 mins ago
 
I don't even know how to get the S/A ratio. Is it in a field somewhere?
 
Xeo
> Mysticial 6.278221208665906
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Or maybe it was the early 2000's. Don't be so fussy, that's only a decade ago.
 
2 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Xeo http://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/80177/whats-my-score-answer-ratio
 
10:12 AM
@Mysticial how'd you get that?
 
user784668
3.95
 
@LuchianGrigore It's in the flag queue.
 
@Xeo dammit, they need to update that... those numbers are from before the branch predictor question.
 
You guys check those?
 
Xeo
@Mysticial's 3k answer totally skewers the ratio
@Mysticial The robot wrote it
 
10:13 AM
@Xeo I didn't write the data.
 
@Xeo The 3k answer isn't even in there yet...
 
The current data is from June 26.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial wait
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh
 
Coming back to the bugs...
I've recently had a bug that only reproduced when you shot at goal and the ball hits both posts... could not reproduce, obviously...
 
I recently spent a few days tracking down a performance bug...
 
10:16 AM
lol, Eric Lippert is the top user that rarely upvotes. He only upvoted once.
 
For some reason, my code ran 2x slower than expected on AMD machine. But it was good on my Intel machines.
 
I'm debugging something which may take me a few days to find.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He admitted that the upvote was a misclick.
 
so damn complicated
 
Holy shit, 1 upvote & 345 downvotes...
 
10:17 AM
@LuchianGrigore I'm the opposite.
 
@TonyTheLion so damn compilated. FTFY
 
I'm really curious what the A/Q was...
 
downvoters gonna downvote
 
@Mysticial hehe.
 
10:18 AM
@LuchianGrigore Jon Skeet mentioned it on meta. Eric admitted it was a mis-click from trying to undo a downvote.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait, what?
 
@LuchianGrigore 'Exception E_uselessGoalkeeper @ 0xe005936'
 
I just bought a 1T external hard-drive for ~80 euros
Wondering how it compares...
good/bad price?
 
That's a rip.
Even by post-flood standards.
 
10:23 AM
2TB drives should be hanging at around $100 USD.
 
Xeo
@LuchianGrigore Well, let's say my 2TB hdd had a price of ~150eur 3 years ago, and is now down to I believe 100eur
 
Size matters, no?
 
The price/size increase is logarithmic anyways
+electronics are less expensive in the states than europe, right? //@Mysticial
 
@Xeo Doesn't really matter.
 
user784668
10:24 AM
@Mysticial What 2TB drives? Cheap shitty drives, perhaps.
 
the HDD prices were shot to hell by the Thailand flooding
 
Before the floods, 2TB drives were around $70 USD.
Right after the floods, they were around $200 USD.
Now, they're about $100 USD.
 
this-> HDD extern Seagate Expansion 1TB, 2.5", 5400 rpm, 8MB, USB 3.0
 
Xeo
@LuchianGrigore oh, 2.5"
 
@LuchianGrigore Ooh... USB3... still a rip
 
Xeo
10:25 AM
you should've said that
 
2.5?
then that's different
 
That's what it says...
 
@Xeo You should have asked!
 
IDK man, not too savvy with the hardware part...
 
Xeo
For 2.5, the price doesn't sound too bad I think
 
10:26 AM
what's the USD <-> Euro now?
 
1 US dollar = 0.7766 euros
 
sbi
I just thought of an embarrassing bug I once caused: After I checked in a new feature, all operations of the app employing it suddenly took ten times as long as they used to. Some trainee was set to profile the thing, while I was assigned another task. After two days he came to me pointing out a single line that caused the ten times increase in runtime. He didn't understand what the problem was. While everyone was looking over my shoulder, I saw the missing & within 10secs.
The line in question returned a big and much used map per copy, rather then per reference. This became a legendary bug. That must have happened in 2001, and I left the company years ago, but when I meet some of my cow-workers from back then, the issue still comes up once in a while. I usually cringe.
 
google "usd to euro"
@sbi haha you made company history!
 
80 euro for 1TB portable with USB3 sounds about average.
 
10:27 AM
@sbi Haha.
 
$100 for a 2TB drive?
 
@sbi it's the kind of horror stories they'll tell young juniors.
 
that's only like £60- less than half what I'd have to pay
 
Ouch.
More than £120?
 
@DeadMG It's that bad in the UK?
 
10:29 AM
Electronic stuff is really cheap in the states. But on the downside, their toilets fill with water all the way up...
 
UK is silly expensive
 
@sbi at least they remember you
 
sbi
What made this thing so legendary is that I was the one who barked at everybody passing strings per copy, rather than per reference. For once, everybody was happy to be able to bash me for something so silly.
 
3.5", Sata II, 2TB -> £160
 
sbi
@thecoshman Oh, they do this for many other reasons as well, not all so bad ones.
 
10:29 AM
hm.... probably we need std::noncopyable::map, vector, etc
 
Bash ALL THE APES
 
Xeo
@DeadMG woah
 
@sbi "I just wanted to test you guys... And you passed!"
 
@DeadMG Fuck, that's expensive. Here it'd cost ~€120.
 
@DeadMG jeez that's a lot
 
sbi
10:30 AM
@TonyTheLion Yeah, but who wants to buy the UK anyway?
 
of course
 
@LuchianGrigore WTF does that mean?
 
if you wanted a Sata 3 7200RPM 2TB drive, it would only set you back £70.
 
Wait, I don't want to know. I know too much about bad toilet designs already.
 
sbi
@LuchianGrigore Well, they didn't, actually. Only I found the problem, even after they found the line that was the culprit.
 
10:31 AM
so I guess it's just a massive premium for Sata 2 drives randomly
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes See here for an amusing view onto toilet design.
 
since the £70 drive is superior in every conceivable fashion
 
Sep 18 at 13:04, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@DeadMG http://www.gregorykemp.com/2010/10/the-viewing-shelf-a-farewell-to-austria.html
@sbi I said I knew too much for a reason.
 
The same disk on Amazon.de costs 143 pounds whereas on Amazon.co.uk it costs 160 pounds
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, so that was you I got this from. Derp.
 
Xeo
10:32 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes We have one of those at home. :(
 
@DeadMG now that's cheap.
 
yeah
now look at the cheapest SATA 2 2TB
 
Xeo
Strange discrepancy you have there
 
10:35 AM
@DeadMG Interesting.
 
@DeadMG dafuq???
 
well
certainly raises the question as to why anyone would buy SATAII, doesn't it? :P
 
If it's more expensive, it must be better!
 
@sbi Toilets in the Netherlands often have a "viewing shelf". In Belgium they don't. I prefer Belgian toilets.
 
@StackedCrooked Oh god, they're all over Europe?
 
10:36 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Quite. I'm working on three now, one C, one C++ and one Delphi. I can't take much more.
 
@StackedCrooked There are none like that here.
 
Some of the Japanese toilets are scary.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The viewing shelves? Dunno, haven't seen them elsewhere.
 
@Mysticial Squat toilets?
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked I think they are the traditional design in Germany, and still very common here.
 
10:37 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Those are also all over China as well. But I'm referring to the high-tech toilets.
 
@sbi And you were complaining about British plumbing ^^
 
@Mysticial They're on Europe too :( (some places in the south of France)
 
Xeo
@Mysticial The water sprinkling ones? :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They have many functions. For example a button to play music to cover toilet sounds.
 
The ones that automatically clean your ass when you're done.
 
Xeo
10:38 AM
I heard those are pretty awesome
 
I'm so sorry I brought this up...
 
sbi
@DeadMG Maybe it's because I grew up with them, but actually I prefer the viewing shelf ones.
 
Why the fuck would you want a viewing shelf? Do people like to inspect their shit after having excreted it? WTF?
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Now discussing toilets. [.read-the-rules] [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
Xeo
@sbi I hate 'em with a passion and if I can, I'll always use the toilet without one. :/
 
10:39 AM
The toilets they have at the airport in Chicago have rotating seats with an automatic "cover" system.
 
a most fascinating subject.
 
It's supposed to be "green" because it saves the person from having to waste several layers of toilet paper to cover the seat.
 
yea, whatever. Mozilla put up a game in WebGL/HTML 5/ JS. It's fully 3d, but the best part is... that it's using C++ engine COMPILED INTO JS developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/detail/bananabread
what the fuck were they thinking
 
@BartekBanachewicz do you need mozilla for that? :D
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Come to think about this, when you have small kids, looking at what they excrete often helps assessing their health. With the kids <10 years, I still do this. (The bigger ones look for themselves.)
 
10:43 AM
@LuchianGrigore for the game? Demo failed to launch in my chrome
But in theory, it should be cross-browser and cross-platform
 
@sbi oh god, TMI
 
@BartekBanachewicz They were thinking of new ways to slow my browser the fuck down.
 
sbi
@LuchianGrigore I answered a question.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ah - Troubleshooting
Please note that up to date versions of modern browers are needed to run this demo, and it will not launch if it detects crucial features are missing.

The demo works properly in the stable release of Firefox.
 
@BartekBanachewicz They were thinking it'd be pretty neat.
 
10:44 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Works in Chrome.
 
sbi
WTF, "Sauerbraten engine"? What are those furriners thinking what that sounds like?
 
Not for me...
 
@sbi That's far from new...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes latest update to chrome added pointer locking and "first person shooter controls", whatever that means
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes So? Still sounds ridiculous.
 
10:44 AM
@sbi people got used to it
 
Hello.
 
@CatPlusPlus You missed out on our amazing discussion about toilets.
 
@sbi It's meat; how can it be ridiculous?
 
@sbi oh I see. Good to know, if I ever have kids, I'll try remember this.
 
@sbi if it's all over the bathroom, they might be a bit ill
 
10:48 AM
lol
 
@thecoshman Or they just have really bad aim.
 
hi
 
@Mysticial or a strange obsession with poo
 
@daknøk Is 'hi' a toilet design?
 
@MartinJames No, and neither does that question make any sense.
 
10:50 AM
@daknøk In here it does:)
 
> I didn’t really expect anyone to use it because it’s so hard to use, but that turns out to be its big appeal. No technology can ever be too arcane or complicated for the black t-shirt crowd. -- Linus about Git (source)
 
Toilet designs are only worth it when they provide a web interface so I can flush using my iPod.
 
Jul 5 '11 at 17:22, by Xaade
There's shit on the walls
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's a dish my grandmothers would do. (I did it once, on request of the woman I lived with back then, with the meat already marinated when I bought it.) It sounds funny. It sounds not like it would taste well. In fact, it's an acquired taste. (I tolerate it, but that's it.)
 
user784668
10:52 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Another shit on the wall.
 
@StackedCrooked git is really much harder to use than svn, that's true
 
@BartekBanachewicz Funny thing is that he says the complexity of git is its appeal.
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz An apple is really much harder to use than a carrot, that's true.
 
@Fanael Hey now be nice.
 
@Fanael both are SCMs (git and svn, not the fruits/veggies)
 
sbi
10:53 AM
Time to drag this out again?
 
what the fuck :O
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, and that's where similarities end.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it’s not. I never had any problems with Git. I did with Subversion.
 
Git is not harder to use than SVN.
Unless by "using" SVN you mean using only commit and checkout.
 
@StackedCrooked is that interview authentic?
 
10:55 AM
Try branching in Subversion. It’s terrible.
 
user784668
@CatPlusPlus Sure thing, they're both nigh impossible to use (correctly).
 
But then again, it's easier with git, too.
 
@jalf Ah, noticed the satire tag.
 
sbi
@daknøk Opposite data point here.
 
@CatPlusPlus it's two-stage. How is it easier?
 
10:55 AM
It's easier to setup.
 
oh wait, I guess it isn't. The satire tag kind of gives it away :) Also that it doesn't really sound like anything Linus would say
 
sbi
@daknøk That's simply not true. Here, we branch and merge all the time.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus I really like that fact with git and hg. hg init and done
 
@sbi the point is, git is used by crazy zombies because its fashionable right now.
 
0
Q: How do I define a function with a reference to a const pointer as its argument

Fenster34Here's a code snippet that hopefully conveys what I'm trying to do: void updatePointer(const int*& i) { i++; } int main() { int array[5]; int* arrayPtr = array; updatePointer(arrayPtr ); return 0; } This gives compiler error: prog.cpp: In function ‘int main()’: prog.cpp:16: ...

 
10:56 AM
@sbi that again? It's still terrible, even though it's possible, and even though you do it
 
@BartekBanachewicz Screw Git. The interesting part is DVCS'es. Git, Mercurial, Bazaar, whatever. Git is just the ugliest (and most popular) implementation of the concept. But it being fashionable has nothing to do with the fact that it's better than traditional VCS'es
 
@BartekBanachewicz funny you say that, they have started using it here
 
Perforce FTW!
 
sbi
@jalf No, it's not. It works quite well. Everybody here is doing it. And there's no geniuses employed here.
 
10:58 AM
@sbi People thought a horse worked quite well for travelling too, before the airplane was invented
 
Speaking of git, this talk is interesting ted.com/talks/…
 
@jalf i don't really think it's better. Actually SVN is more "cloud", since you have to have server connection to commit
 
But we've been there before, and I don't really see the point in rehashing that discussion. You've only used SVN, and refuse to consider that another tool might be superior. I've used both, and can see a clear difference. But it's not my problem. You can use whichever tool you like.
 
sbi
@jalf What I agree to is that the DVCS concept has its merits, namely, the ability to check in while you're offline. That's really great. But if you don't need that, there's nothing left.
 
git, svn, hg, just a plain old folder with backups, all work a damn site better then clearcase
 
10:59 AM
@sbi Yes there is...
 

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